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Hold that P.R. there. Apple will sell your data out when compelled [1]. This is NOT a technology problem, it's a policy issue. And Apple isn't immune to governm
by mankash666 9y ago
Hold that P.R. there. Apple will sell your data out when compelled [1]. This is NOT a technology problem, it's a policy issue. And Apple isn't immune to governments & greed.
[1]: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/23/opinion/apple-china-data.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/23/opinion/apple-china-data....
- Frondo 9y agoAnd, frankly speaking, we don't want them to refuse lawful orders to hand over data. We might not have a well-functioning justice system, but the alternative--when corporations could feel empowered to ignore it because they themselves are big and powerful--is much, much, much worse.
- wyager 9y ago> And, frankly speaking, we don't want them to refuse lawful orders to hand over data. I actually do, but this would be quite unreasonable to ask. A practical middle-ground is making it so that any data they are forced to hand over is useless.
- siquick 9y agoAs a non-US citizen, I trust Apple and Google far more than the US Government.
- stouset 9y agoApple is storing the data in China, but it's completely unclear if they're just storing opaque encrypted blobs (which would be my guess). Further, it makes complete sense to store Chinese user data in China, where it's subject to Chinese law and not American law.
- pbhjpbhj 9y agoIs the data transmitted from the phone in a format that Apple has the means (without grabbing further keys) to decrypt? Is there any reason, except commercial exploitation of the data, one would do that? So, ... I'd guess if the data never leaves your device unencrypted then Apple are clean, otherwise ...
- DonaldPShimoda 9y ago> Is the data transmitted from the phone in a format that Apple has the means (without grabbing further keys) to decrypt? I don't know for certain, but based on how Apple handles other sensitive user data I would hazard a guess of "no". Apple makes their money selling devices, not user data, so they tend to choose to implement solutions that protect user privacy first. (I am not claiming that this is always the case, nor am I claiming that they do not make any money from user data, but they do handle privacy very differently from the other major corporations.)
- icantdrive55 9y agoNow--when they are fat & happy. What will happen when people, like myself, refuse to buy their pricy products. Yes--today they are trustworthy, or that's the image they cultivate. Who know what tomorrow will bring. (Personally--we need strict government regulations on our data. I don't think those in charge can even comprehend what safeguards we need. And yes--Europe is going in the right direction, while the all might America just listens to the Gods of tech, or our oblivious? I'm not picking on Apple. We have just let them all do to much with Our data.)
- gurkendoktor 9y agoEnd-to-end encrypted data should be safe, but most iCloud services aren't that secure yet (I bet Health will be): https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303
- mankash666 9y agoCut the B.S. Google was asked to do the same with China, and they walked away with some dignity and authenticity left.
- urda 9y agoWhat are you talking about? Google bends over backwards to support China. I would hope that this comment is not informing you for the first time that the Great Firewall [1] exists and Google China [2] happily complies just like Apple, that is how law works. Where are you getting this idea of "walked away with some dignity and authenticity left"? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Firewall https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Firewall [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_China
- wlesieutre 9y agoGoogle did leave, but then they went back https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2016/01/why-google-quit-china-and-why-its-heading-back/424482/ https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2016/01/why-g...
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- lern_too_spel 9y agoGoogle China is outside the Great Firewall and is therefore both not subject to Chinese censorship rules and subject to getting blocked by the Great Firewall. That's the key distinction. Since Apple operates inside the Great Firewall, they have to do what the Chinese government asks.
- sbuk 9y agoLike they did with PRISM?
- lern_too_spel 9y agoYou clearly don't know what PRISM is, believing Greenwald's laughably inaccurate description. Go look at the slide.
- mankash666 9y agoHowever they store data, of the Chinese government cannot access it, Apple's in violation.
- saagarjha 9y agoOf what?
- mankash666 9y agoChinese law. If you want to sell in China, hardware or software, the government needs to be able to read data. Period. You can throw whatever fit, ethics, morals, yada yada, but China gives two full fucks for privacy, etc. Give data or get the fuck out of China. It applies to Chinese citizens/residents.
- robbiemitchell 9y agoHow is what you're saying different from any other EMR company being compelled to hand over records? People in the industry have seen this coming for a while. The convenience of having your own centralized medical record and using it wherever you go will be dramatically different from the model we have now.
- seanmcdirmid 9y agoApple has no choice in the matter, PRC law is the law of the land. Like Apple can’t violate USA law in the USA, they can’t violate Chinese law in China either.
- 45h34jh53k4j 9y agoThe problem is not governments accessing this data. Its advertisers and marketers. I notice that the Wallgreens app wants your 'step data' so it an offer your discounts for being healthy. How much is this a jump to Cancer/HIV status for 'discounts'.
- SilasX 9y agoLife insurance already gives you a steep discount for not having AIDS.
- EADGBE 9y agoAnd health insurance used to.
- komali2 9y ago>The problem is not governments accessing this data. Some people have a big problem with governments accessing this data. For example, the US government has used brute-force to access data and bully both citizens and non-citizens. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/13/technology/aclu-border-patrol-lawsuit.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/13/technology/aclu-border-pa... https://www.cnn.com/2017/02/13/us/citizen-nasa-engineer-detained-at-border-trnd/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2017/02/13/us/citizen-nasa-engineer-deta... I can find more individualized cases if you'd like. I, for one, do not trust the organization known to send people to offshore prisons to be tortured with no judicial overview to "do the right thing" regarding my data, especially when that organization gets penetrated by data breaches so often.
- openasocket 9y agoThat would be a HIPPA violation, unless you signed a bunch of forms authorizing access.
- abalone 9y agoTotally false. It is a technology problem. Apple is at the forefront of engineering technical ways to make it impossible for them to decipher your data. Specifically HealthKit data "is stored in Data Protection class Complete Protection, which means it is accessible only after a user enters their passcode or uses Touch ID or Face ID to unlock the device." Furthermore, "When configured for iCloud storage, Health data is synced between devices and secured by encryption that protects the data both in transit and at rest. Health data is only included in encrypted iTunes Backups. It is not included in either unencrypted iTunes backups or iCloud Backup."[1] You also provide zero evidence that "Apple will sell your data" even if they could get it. Nothing in that citation about using China-based servers supports it. [1] https://www.apple.com/business/docs/iOS_Security_Guide.pdf https://www.apple.com/business/docs/iOS_Security_Guide.pdf
- gerdesj 9y ago"Totally false. It is a technology problem. Apple is at the forefront of engineering technical ways to make it impossible for them to decipher your data." Who on earth uses terms like "Totally false" as a leader? I will wholeheartedly apologise to someone wielding English as a second language but I doubt I'll be saying soz for this comment, noddy. EDIT: soz mate (just skip read your past comments) - looks like you briefly channelled Mr Trump by accident 8)
- garmaine 9y agoEncrypted in transit and at rest doesn’t mean they don’t have the keys.
- karlshea 9y agoThey don't have the SEP key (that is generated in and never leaves the Secure Enclave) which it's presumably encrypted with.
- bluejekyll 9y agoWhen the data is in transit between devices, what encryption is being used? I mean I could speculate a manner in which it’s possible to restrict this between two devices and their respective secure enclaves, but is Apple doing that? This would mean that when backed up in Apple’s servers l, they’d have to backup per device... maybe they do?
- yorby 9y agoWe know that Apple sold out to the Government... thanks to E. Snowden.
- k_sh 9y agoCitation?
- yorby 9y agoI can't believe that people already forgot... especially on this site...
- rimliu 9y agoProbably talking about PRISM and the slide somewhere showing Apple participating. IIRC that was form 2008 or whereabouts when iPhone was a year old and had now secure enclave. For some reason people assume nothing ever changes.
- yorby 9y agoThe law that allowed them to do this never got repealed, so you know it didn't get any better. Everything is changing... but it's not changing for the better, yet.