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While turning down the job is just fine, here's what happened instead: - Someone else with similar capabilities as OP's probably took the job. - This person w

While turning down the job is just fine, here's what happened instead: - Someone else with similar capabilities as OP's probably took the job. - This person will make significantly more money than what OP will be making (as OP points out) - This person will have learned way more about the implication of the technology, whether it actually is as bad as what mainstream media says or if those are all coming from ignorance. Even if this whole Bitcoin thing comes crashing, accepting a job that's much higher paying, and lets you explore a new edge technology, all while being able to work remotely, all sound like a game you can't lose. p.s. All this narrative about how proof of work == global warming, and how bitcoin won't work because of such and such are mostly based on lack of deep knowledge. Sure, they say "yeah i've read the whitepaper and I totally understand how it works", but that's not enough. I've been there and now that I know more about it I feel ashamed of blabbering my mouth to people about these things because to people who actually know things, these words immediately turn on red flag and they mentally mark you as "don't know what you're saying". It's funny how most people who criticize bitcoin and blockchain for all these things actually haven't gone deep enough to have the expertise to say these things. They are basing their "opinions" on what someone else--who is most likely also less than enough informed--said. If you really want to talk shit about Bitcoin, at least spend about a month, learning everything possible. Otherwise you'll be ashamed of yourself ever saying those things (just like I did) when maybe later on in your life you learn more about the technology. [Edit] To those who are saying: "if you know so much, why don't you just show us what you've got? Prove to us that proof of work can work" or things like that, if it was that simple to explain in a single comment, would I say learn for one month? (Actually one month is not even enough. It took me a full 3 months of doing nothing but teaching myself to get even closer to understanding the landscape) Even if I did my best to explain to you here, I would fail to convince you because it not only involves technology but everything around the ecosystem. I'm not trying to be condescending. I'm saying do yourself a favor and teach yourself wth is going on so that you can make informed decisions about whether you do want to jump in or not. Don't believe what uninformed people are saying.

betenoire 9y ago
> accepting a job that's much higher paying, and lets you explore a new edge technology, all while being able to work remotely, all sound like a game you can't lose If that's what you want. But, the author didn't.
Retzus 9y ago
Well said. I couldn't have said it any better.
czardoz 9y ago
The author rejected the offer on principle, which is a very good reason to do so.
- praneshp 9y ago
  I see that the author has done significant open source work, so it's possible he just received an offer. But I'm thinking the more likely path was that the company reached out with a pitch and asked him to interview, and I wonder why his principles didn't stop him then.
  - stevenwoo 9y ago
    Been in the same boat where people pitch me a cryptocurrency job or I see job listing match in experience in cryptocurrency and I decline to even interview - I already know how I feel about it and it would be a waste of my time and their time to subject both sides to an interview.
NickM 9y ago
While turning down the job is just fine, here's what happened instead.... Sure, if you're just looking at one job, then yeah someone else is going to come along and take it. But if enough people start feeling the same way as the author, there will be fewer qualified developers in the hiring pool for blockchain work. This will likely result in fewer companies and less work being done in the area, and more work being done on other technologies. (Other technologies that are more useful and beneficial to society, if you happen to agree with the author of this post.)
tobltobs 9y ago
Instead of ranting how stupid everybody else is you could give us unenlightened souls a hint how the proof of work problem could be solved without wasting lots of energy.
- nrhk 9y ago
  To not use Proof of Work and use one of the many other ideas for achieving consensus in the blockchain world currently. Or alternative to turn your proof of work into compute power for AI and other heavy computational yet beneficial tasks.
earthtolazlo 9y ago
Bitcoin mining uses as much energy as the nation of Denmark. Each transaction confirmation uses as much energy as nine American households do in an entire day. What “deep knowledge” am I lacking here?
- paulgb 9y ago
  > What “deep knowledge” am I lacking here? The cognitive dissonance associated with having money at stake on Bitcoin.
- danpalmer 9y ago
  Agreed. I see rejecting a job in Bitcoin for environmental reasons as quite similar to rejecting one working for an oil company. Most people don't care that much, but for some it makes sense.
- whataretensors 9y ago
  Other newer cryptocurrencies don't have the same power requirements. Your comment sounds repeated from somewhere else. Do your own research, everyone is trying to manipulate everyone else in this space.
- deevolution 9y ago
  Thats because the bitcoin network is over relied on and the cyptocurrency space is still infantile and not decentralized enough. Once people realize that bitcoin isn't the only cryptocurrency out there, they will switch to other, less expensive coins and the pressure on bitcoin will, hopefully, be relieved some. Thats the beauty of this space! There can be so many coins and all with unique and improved attributes!
  - hndamien 9y ago
    Until we have functional decentralised exchanges, using a common protocol would be a nice thing for humanity. Most people don't care about the bigger picture, they just want to get rich quickly, rather than try and make the world a better place by working together.
RutZap 9y ago
> lets you explore a new edge technology A little bit off-topic, I find very interesting how blockchain is regarded as a new technology. All the underlying technology has been available for ages: cryptographic hashes, Merkle trees (patented in 1979!!), peer to peer protocols. It's crazy how putting together some already established technologies/techniques/mathematical instruments can generate such a big movement. A lot of people refer to it as a cutting edge technology that will.. disrupt (I hate this buzzword) the current status quo. In my opinion it's just a very elegant solution to a problem (decentralised trust) that's been put together with already existing simple blocks. It would be good if we could cut down on the uninformed hype and just appreciate the elegance in it.
- cocktailpeanuts 9y ago
  It's a new technology because it enables a new human behavior. With your logic, everything is an old technology.
  - MBCook 9y ago
    > It’s a new technology because it enables a new human behavior. And what is that? Most of what it’s credited with seems shakey at best. E.g. it’s not really decentralized is the vast majority of the mining is done by two or three large groups.
    - nrhk 9y ago
      Anonymous trustless peer to peer exchange of value.
      - MBCook 9y ago
        Bitcoin (which as far as I know is the largest blockchain project) has been de-anonymized. You have to trust the other peers aren’t secretly working together to use a 51% attack.
        9y ago
andrewstuart2 9y ago
> If you really want to talk shit about Bitcoin I don't. And I don't think many people do (perhaps those buying put options might). That said, it's not hard to see the cost in power usage, and thus waste heat, that is/will be spent computing hashes that match ever-growing computational requirements. You're right that I could spend a month of my time learning more about this tech that does obviously have solid implications in the form of distributed untrusted consensus. That said, it took me maybe 30 minutes researching to understand the huge global power requirements, and in years of observing the tech, nobody has been able to quickly and easily dispel this concern. If it takes a month of in-depth research to make people feel better about bitcoin and dispel years of observing the currency and its ever-growing requirements, then maybe something is wrong. It could be that after a month of very hard work, you have an unconscious cognitive bias because nobody likes to waste a month of work learning something they decide to throw away. I'd be glad to find an article that, in less than 30 minutes, can change my mind about the waste that bitcoin generates. It's happened plenty of times with other tech (not necessarily waste, but other misjudgments), and often in closer to 5-10 minutes. I don't expect Bitcoin would be any different, because I have no horse in this game. In fact, I'd be really excited to be proven wrong, because of the potential benefits that the tech has to offer.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- deevolution 9y ago
  Have you factored in the energy costs of running the thousands of financial institutions and associated infrastructure required to maintain them? I personally don't have time to run an energy audit of the entire financial industry, but I can tell you theres a lot more infrastructure required. factor in the engery required to: - construct giant buildings for financial offices - maintain financial offices - commute to and from offices - construct, deploy, and maintain ATMs - construct and maintain physical bank locations - server infrastructure how much of the energy required to build and maintain all of this infrastructure is from a renewable source? Proof of Work miners are at least incentivized to find the cheapest possible source of energy. Renewables! Almost free, unlimited energy!
jerf 9y ago
I'd add a fourth bullet point, "This person probably won't have a job in 3-6 months". If you consider that and budget in the costs of looking for a new job, and account for the frankly non-trivial chance that the salary will end up being a lie, given the skeeviness of this space (I'd bet the first paycheck shows up, but my confidence in that goes down rapidly as the weeks wear on), it may not look like such a great offer. Obviously, there are things that can be taken into account when you know more specifics (i.e., "it's VC backed by a reputable firm" would score some points on the "they at least have some money" front), but absent those I wouldn't start from a high degree of confidence.
haltingthoughts 9y ago
I'm pretty sure you can convince someone in less than a day with a reasonably simplified version.
tootie 9y ago
I spent most of last year working on a high-paying project for a huge company that was the dumbest shit imaginable and everyone on this thread would heap scorn if they saw it. I earn more than I know what to do with and would love to work on something actually useful for a change even if it meant less money and 10 year old tech.
- bkovacev 9y ago
  What tech stack are you working on, so that I can replace you in the future when I get bored chasing unicorns?
  - tootie 9y ago
    The stack we used to build the expensive nonsense was all super modern and cutting edge. I'm still looking for emotional fulfillment in a Perl/CGI environment.
allemagne 9y ago
Please do not make arguments about how proof of work != global warming until you've spent at least a month studying global warming.

betenoire 9y ago

> accepting a job that's much higher paying, and lets you explore a new edge technology, all while being able to work remotely, all sound like a game you can't lose If that's what you want. But, the author didn't.

Retzus 9y ago

Well said. I couldn't have said it any better.

czardoz 9y ago

The author rejected the offer on principle, which is a very good reason to do so.

praneshp 9y ago
I see that the author has done significant open source work, so it's possible he just received an offer. But I'm thinking the more likely path was that the company reached out with a pitch and asked him to interview, and I wonder why his principles didn't stop him then.
- stevenwoo 9y ago
  Been in the same boat where people pitch me a cryptocurrency job or I see job listing match in experience in cryptocurrency and I decline to even interview - I already know how I feel about it and it would be a waste of my time and their time to subject both sides to an interview.

NickM 9y ago

While turning down the job is just fine, here's what happened instead.... Sure, if you're just looking at one job, then yeah someone else is going to come along and take it. But if enough people start feeling the same way as the author, there will be fewer qualified developers in the hiring pool for blockchain work. This will likely result in fewer companies and less work being done in the area, and more work being done on other technologies. (Other technologies that are more useful and beneficial to society, if you happen to agree with the author of this post.)

tobltobs 9y ago

Instead of ranting how stupid everybody else is you could give us unenlightened souls a hint how the proof of work problem could be solved without wasting lots of energy.

nrhk 9y ago
To not use Proof of Work and use one of the many other ideas for achieving consensus in the blockchain world currently. Or alternative to turn your proof of work into compute power for AI and other heavy computational yet beneficial tasks.

earthtolazlo 9y ago

Bitcoin mining uses as much energy as the nation of Denmark. Each transaction confirmation uses as much energy as nine American households do in an entire day. What “deep knowledge” am I lacking here?

paulgb 9y ago
> What “deep knowledge” am I lacking here? The cognitive dissonance associated with having money at stake on Bitcoin.
danpalmer 9y ago
Agreed. I see rejecting a job in Bitcoin for environmental reasons as quite similar to rejecting one working for an oil company. Most people don't care that much, but for some it makes sense.
whataretensors 9y ago
Other newer cryptocurrencies don't have the same power requirements. Your comment sounds repeated from somewhere else. Do your own research, everyone is trying to manipulate everyone else in this space.
deevolution 9y ago
Thats because the bitcoin network is over relied on and the cyptocurrency space is still infantile and not decentralized enough. Once people realize that bitcoin isn't the only cryptocurrency out there, they will switch to other, less expensive coins and the pressure on bitcoin will, hopefully, be relieved some. Thats the beauty of this space! There can be so many coins and all with unique and improved attributes!
- hndamien 9y ago
  Until we have functional decentralised exchanges, using a common protocol would be a nice thing for humanity. Most people don't care about the bigger picture, they just want to get rich quickly, rather than try and make the world a better place by working together.

RutZap 9y ago

> lets you explore a new edge technology A little bit off-topic, I find very interesting how blockchain is regarded as a new technology. All the underlying technology has been available for ages: cryptographic hashes, Merkle trees (patented in 1979!!), peer to peer protocols. It's crazy how putting together some already established technologies/techniques/mathematical instruments can generate such a big movement. A lot of people refer to it as a cutting edge technology that will.. disrupt (I hate this buzzword) the current status quo. In my opinion it's just a very elegant solution to a problem (decentralised trust) that's been put together with already existing simple blocks. It would be good if we could cut down on the uninformed hype and just appreciate the elegance in it.

cocktailpeanuts 9y ago
It's a new technology because it enables a new human behavior. With your logic, everything is an old technology.
- MBCook 9y ago
  > It’s a new technology because it enables a new human behavior. And what is that? Most of what it’s credited with seems shakey at best. E.g. it’s not really decentralized is the vast majority of the mining is done by two or three large groups.
  - nrhk 9y ago
    Anonymous trustless peer to peer exchange of value.
    - MBCook 9y ago
      Bitcoin (which as far as I know is the largest blockchain project) has been de-anonymized. You have to trust the other peers aren’t secretly working together to use a 51% attack.
      - 9y ago

andrewstuart2 9y ago

> If you really want to talk shit about Bitcoin I don't. And I don't think many people do (perhaps those buying put options might). That said, it's not hard to see the cost in power usage, and thus waste heat, that is/will be spent computing hashes that match ever-growing computational requirements. You're right that I could spend a month of my time learning more about this tech that does obviously have solid implications in the form of distributed untrusted consensus. That said, it took me maybe 30 minutes researching to understand the huge global power requirements, and in years of observing the tech, nobody has been able to quickly and easily dispel this concern. If it takes a month of in-depth research to make people feel better about bitcoin and dispel years of observing the currency and its ever-growing requirements, then maybe something is wrong. It could be that after a month of very hard work, you have an unconscious cognitive bias because nobody likes to waste a month of work learning something they decide to throw away. I'd be glad to find an article that, in less than 30 minutes, can change my mind about the waste that bitcoin generates. It's happened plenty of times with other tech (not necessarily waste, but other misjudgments), and often in closer to 5-10 minutes. I don't expect Bitcoin would be any different, because I have no horse in this game. In fact, I'd be really excited to be proven wrong, because of the potential benefits that the tech has to offer.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
deevolution 9y ago
Have you factored in the energy costs of running the thousands of financial institutions and associated infrastructure required to maintain them? I personally don't have time to run an energy audit of the entire financial industry, but I can tell you theres a lot more infrastructure required. factor in the engery required to: - construct giant buildings for financial offices - maintain financial offices - commute to and from offices - construct, deploy, and maintain ATMs - construct and maintain physical bank locations - server infrastructure how much of the energy required to build and maintain all of this infrastructure is from a renewable source? Proof of Work miners are at least incentivized to find the cheapest possible source of energy. Renewables! Almost free, unlimited energy!

jerf 9y ago

I'd add a fourth bullet point, "This person probably won't have a job in 3-6 months". If you consider that and budget in the costs of looking for a new job, and account for the frankly non-trivial chance that the salary will end up being a lie, given the skeeviness of this space (I'd bet the first paycheck shows up, but my confidence in that goes down rapidly as the weeks wear on), it may not look like such a great offer. Obviously, there are things that can be taken into account when you know more specifics (i.e., "it's VC backed by a reputable firm" would score some points on the "they at least have some money" front), but absent those I wouldn't start from a high degree of confidence.

haltingthoughts 9y ago

I'm pretty sure you can convince someone in less than a day with a reasonably simplified version.

tootie 9y ago

I spent most of last year working on a high-paying project for a huge company that was the dumbest shit imaginable and everyone on this thread would heap scorn if they saw it. I earn more than I know what to do with and would love to work on something actually useful for a change even if it meant less money and 10 year old tech.

bkovacev 9y ago
What tech stack are you working on, so that I can replace you in the future when I get bored chasing unicorns?
- tootie 9y ago
  The stack we used to build the expensive nonsense was all super modern and cutting edge. I'm still looking for emotional fulfillment in a Perl/CGI environment.

allemagne 9y ago

Please do not make arguments about how proof of work != global warming until you've spent at least a month studying global warming.