7 ms·

I'd never heard of this before. Growing up in rural Scotland, meals were always "Breakfast", "Dinner" and "Tea". There was sometimes confusion with other people

I'd never heard of this before. Growing up in rural Scotland, meals were always "Breakfast", "Dinner" and "Tea". There was sometimes confusion with other people over whether dinner was a midday or evening meal, but I'd never thought much of it until now.

signal11 9y ago
Thanks, that was very informative. I was always told that dinner (from "dine") is the main meal of the day. So if you have a 'fancy' afternoon meal that can be your dinner (e.g. we usually do Christmas dinner between 3 and 4). I wonder if HN knows of a linguistic map for meal names, it appears that these words shift meaning a lot. EDIT: I thought this was interesting -- "Harvard's Dialect Survey had the question, 'What is the distinction between dinner and supper?' Here's the geographic distribution of their results from 10,661 American respondents" https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/22446/lunch-vs-dinner-vs-supper-times-and-meanings https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/22446/lunch-vs-d...
- pbhjpbhj 9y ago
  I don't think it's as easy as geography, it depends on your parents upbringing too. One other great British-English question is "what do you call an individually portioned baked bread article" ... roll, barm, bap, cob, ...
  - nicky0 9y ago
    Breadcake
  - teh_klev 9y ago
    Scottish git here....rolls (or maybe morning rolls if posh). But where I'm from in Scotland you'd ask for "softies" otherwise you'd get a slightly harder well-fired roll if there was a choice.
  - stordoff 9y ago
    Or "How do you pronounce 'scone'?"
- somewhatoff 9y ago
  The slightly snooty Daily Telegraph style guide: "Christmas lunch is what most of our readers would eat, not Christmas dinner. Use the latter only if referring specifically to an evening meal." http://www.telegraph.co.uk/topics/about-us/style-book/1435309/Telegraph-style-book-Cc.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/topics/about-us/style-book/143530...
  - signal11 9y ago
    (Being slightly facetious) This confirms my suspicion that the Telegraph caters to a very small minority: https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=Christmas+lunch%2CChristmas+dinner&year_start=1800&year_end=2000&corpus=15&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2CChristmas%20lunch%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2CChristmas%20dinner%3B%2Cc0 https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=Christmas+lunc... Also this: https://trends.google.co.uk/trends/explore?q=Christmas%20lunch,Christmas%20dinner https://trends.google.co.uk/trends/explore?q=Christmas%20lun...
  - stordoff 9y ago
    Even in Southern England (Cambridge), I don't think I've ever heard the phrase "Christmas lunch".
  - buckminster 9y ago
    If you're ready for Christmas dinner at lunchtime there was something wrong with Christmas breakfast.
- cfv 9y ago
  I find this particular stuff fascinating. In spanish you have 3 distinct meals, 'desayuno' 'almuerzo' and 'cena' mapping strictly to a moment of the day, more or less 'breakfast' 'lunch' and 'dinner', with the option of a merienda (roughly 'tea' but usually just sweet food like cookies or some such) between lunch and dinner. Each of this happens on a specific moment of the day (morning, noon, the optional afternoon thing and well into nighttime). Are there other languages/dialects where the word maps the importance of the meal instead of the actual time it is consumed?
franey 9y ago
In my part of the world (Nova Scotia, Canada), "dinner" often means either lunch or the largest meal of the day. When planning for Christmas dinner I've found myself asking, "Lunch dinner or supper dinner?"
jawilson2 9y ago
We (USA) say breakfast, lunch, and dinner, though my grandparents would say supper instead of dinner sometimes. I wonder where/when the split occurred.
- mturmon 9y ago
  Same here (also USA). My parents (born 1930s) say breakfast, lunch, dinner. My grandparents (born 1900s) said breakfast, dinner, supper. My grandmother asserted that her usage was more proper.
- kasey_junk 9y ago
  I think you’ll find supper in common usage in the US but always as the same meal as dinner which is the evening meal. Dinner is definitely most common near me but I wouldn’t blink if someone asked me over for supper or said it’s supper time.
lttlrck 9y ago
I grew up in England and it was similar. Growing up Dinner was the hot meal using taken in the middle of the day either at school (dinner ladies), or at work (I imagined hot meals servers in factories or canteens). And tea (teatime!) was cold/lighter possibly taken with tea, essentially late afternoon tea, followed by supper later in the evening. Pretty sure it’s still like this in many places. At some point dinner transitioned to lunch and teatime to dinner for us.
philbarr 9y ago
In the North of England and Scotland it's usually Breakfast, Dinner, and Tea. If you go down South it's Breakfast, Lunch, Dinner. And sometimes if you're really lucky you'll meet a Southerner who'll freak out about it, "Ha! You said 'dinner' but you meant 'lunch'!! Ha! Ha! When do you eat your lunch?! Ha Ha!!" I had an old boss that did this regularly. The dick.
- 7952 9y ago
  We usually have one main meal, and another that is lighter and more like a snack. If you have the main meal in the middle of the day then it is called "dinner". The snack you have at the end of the afternoon is "tea". If you have the main meal at the end of the afternoon it is "dinner". The snack you eat in the middle of the day is "lunch". The difference probably depends on if you go home for a meal at mid-day or not. The later is probably more traditional as people used to work or study much closer to home. And there was somebody around during the day to prepare a meal. But nowadays going home for a main meal in the middle of the day is unusual so we all just have a small snack.
  - int_19h 9y ago
    It can be confusing when other languages get added to the mix, because they don't necessarily follow that convention. E.g. in Russian, you traditionally translate the main meal of the day as "dinner" in English - but it's actually eaten early in the afternoon (usually around 1pm), so it's more like lunch in that regard, and honestly should probably just be rendered as such. I often found that whenever I would refer to "dinner" in my conversation, my (native English speaking) friends would automatically assume the end-of-the-afternoon meal; and the idea of having a dinner with colleagues implies some sort of highly formal event. On the other hand, the after-work evening meal is usually less heavy, and is rendered as "supper" in English. And, again, I find that Americans usually assume that it takes place much later than it normally does, and is also much lighter than it normally is (basically a snack rather than a proper meal), if I use that word. So clearly there is some implicit time-of-day mapping there.
teh_klev 9y ago
I'm also originally from rural Scotland (around Tomintoul), for us it was "Breakfast", "Dinner" and "Supper". Upon moving to the central belt, and ingratiating myself into more middle class circles of friends I then discovered: Breakfast - eaten usually when you get up in the morning, say early morning until ~1030am Lunch - eaten from 12pm until ~2:30pm Afternoon Tea - taken from around 3:30pm until 4:30pm (cakes/biscuits [cookies] and would also include some kind of sandwich - often cut into triangles) Tea - 5pm until 6pm - usually a lighter two course meal (say an omlette) and some pudding (desert). Dinner - taken from 7pm until perhaps 9pm - this would be a fully laiden two or three course meal. Supper - taken from around 10pm until around 11pm (or just before bedtime) - likely cheese on toast or crackers & cheese and a cuppa. Obviously you don't need to have every one of these meals every day of the week.
- klipt 9y ago
  I see where Tolkien got his inspiration for Hobbit meals...
  - Brakenshire 9y ago
    He's actually missing out elevenses and brunch.
    - teh_klev 9y ago
      Damn, forgot about brunch. Too late to edit in now. I left out elevenses because that's really just a cup of tea and a rich tea or digestive. I feel you need a bit more than that for it to be classified as a proper meal.
    - douchescript 9y ago
      Yes and frunch!
    - adrianratnapala 9y ago
      And then there is "Second Breakfast". Or was that only in the movies?
voidlogic 9y ago
There is tons of disagreement about this stuff, as it varies so much region to region, but in general, in most English peaking places: The three meals are "Breakfast", "Lunch" and "Supper". And if Lunch or Supper is the biggest/most formal meal of the day it may be called "Dinner" instead. Hence family "Christmas Dinner" may be at lunch time, but your "Dinner party" is in the evening.
- umanwizard 9y ago
  Thanks, I was always confused about why people talk about having "Thanksgiving Dinner" in the early afternoon and now it makes perfect sense.
- gumby 9y ago
  I have only encountered “supper” as the name of a primary meal in parts of the USA. I think “breakfast, lunch, dinner” likely is the most widespread formulation. I never heard “supper” in Australia or Canada at all.
  - voidlogic 9y ago
    Its all highly regional, but I believe my characterization is an accurate generalization. Checkout the "Word Origin and History for X" for: 1. http://www.dictionary.com/browse/supper http://www.dictionary.com/browse/supper 2. http://www.dictionary.com/browse/dinner http://www.dictionary.com/browse/dinner Interesting side note, Sup (verb) the root word for supper has been in the (old) English language since before 900 AD.
  - int_19h 9y ago
    FWIW, I was taught "breakfast", "dinner", "supper" at school, and their English courses were supposed to closely follow British usage (although I'm not sure which regional dialects, if any specific ones, they tracked in practice). We were taught "lunch" as well, but it was treated more like a second breakfast.
ian0 9y ago
In farms in Ireland its typically Breakfast - Dinner - Tea. Where your main meal of the day (dinner) is around 12-1pm and the evening meal (tea) is light. Your occasional cup of tea before bed is supper. Outside of farming people have their main meal (dinner) when they come home from their office in the evening. So the lighter meal in the afternoon becomes lunch and theres no tea.

signal11 9y ago

Thanks, that was very informative. I was always told that dinner (from "dine") is the main meal of the day. So if you have a 'fancy' afternoon meal that can be your dinner (e.g. we usually do Christmas dinner between 3 and 4). I wonder if HN knows of a linguistic map for meal names, it appears that these words shift meaning a lot. EDIT: I thought this was interesting -- "Harvard's Dialect Survey had the question, 'What is the distinction between dinner and supper?' Here's the geographic distribution of their results from 10,661 American respondents" https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/22446/lunch-vs-dinner-vs-supper-times-and-meanings https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/22446/lunch-vs-d...

pbhjpbhj 9y ago
I don't think it's as easy as geography, it depends on your parents upbringing too. One other great British-English question is "what do you call an individually portioned baked bread article" ... roll, barm, bap, cob, ...
- nicky0 9y ago
  Breadcake
- teh_klev 9y ago
  Scottish git here....rolls (or maybe morning rolls if posh). But where I'm from in Scotland you'd ask for "softies" otherwise you'd get a slightly harder well-fired roll if there was a choice.
- stordoff 9y ago
  Or "How do you pronounce 'scone'?"
somewhatoff 9y ago
The slightly snooty Daily Telegraph style guide: "Christmas lunch is what most of our readers would eat, not Christmas dinner. Use the latter only if referring specifically to an evening meal." http://www.telegraph.co.uk/topics/about-us/style-book/1435309/Telegraph-style-book-Cc.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/topics/about-us/style-book/143530...
- signal11 9y ago
  (Being slightly facetious) This confirms my suspicion that the Telegraph caters to a very small minority: https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=Christmas+lunch%2CChristmas+dinner&year_start=1800&year_end=2000&corpus=15&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2CChristmas%20lunch%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2CChristmas%20dinner%3B%2Cc0 https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=Christmas+lunc... Also this: https://trends.google.co.uk/trends/explore?q=Christmas%20lunch,Christmas%20dinner https://trends.google.co.uk/trends/explore?q=Christmas%20lun...
- stordoff 9y ago
  Even in Southern England (Cambridge), I don't think I've ever heard the phrase "Christmas lunch".
- buckminster 9y ago
  If you're ready for Christmas dinner at lunchtime there was something wrong with Christmas breakfast.
cfv 9y ago
I find this particular stuff fascinating. In spanish you have 3 distinct meals, 'desayuno' 'almuerzo' and 'cena' mapping strictly to a moment of the day, more or less 'breakfast' 'lunch' and 'dinner', with the option of a merienda (roughly 'tea' but usually just sweet food like cookies or some such) between lunch and dinner. Each of this happens on a specific moment of the day (morning, noon, the optional afternoon thing and well into nighttime). Are there other languages/dialects where the word maps the importance of the meal instead of the actual time it is consumed?

franey 9y ago

In my part of the world (Nova Scotia, Canada), "dinner" often means either lunch or the largest meal of the day. When planning for Christmas dinner I've found myself asking, "Lunch dinner or supper dinner?"

jawilson2 9y ago

We (USA) say breakfast, lunch, and dinner, though my grandparents would say supper instead of dinner sometimes. I wonder where/when the split occurred.

mturmon 9y ago
Same here (also USA). My parents (born 1930s) say breakfast, lunch, dinner. My grandparents (born 1900s) said breakfast, dinner, supper. My grandmother asserted that her usage was more proper.
kasey_junk 9y ago
I think you’ll find supper in common usage in the US but always as the same meal as dinner which is the evening meal. Dinner is definitely most common near me but I wouldn’t blink if someone asked me over for supper or said it’s supper time.

lttlrck 9y ago

I grew up in England and it was similar. Growing up Dinner was the hot meal using taken in the middle of the day either at school (dinner ladies), or at work (I imagined hot meals servers in factories or canteens). And tea (teatime!) was cold/lighter possibly taken with tea, essentially late afternoon tea, followed by supper later in the evening. Pretty sure it’s still like this in many places. At some point dinner transitioned to lunch and teatime to dinner for us.

philbarr 9y ago

In the North of England and Scotland it's usually Breakfast, Dinner, and Tea. If you go down South it's Breakfast, Lunch, Dinner. And sometimes if you're really lucky you'll meet a Southerner who'll freak out about it, "Ha! You said 'dinner' but you meant 'lunch'!! Ha! Ha! When do you eat your lunch?! Ha Ha!!" I had an old boss that did this regularly. The dick.

7952 9y ago
We usually have one main meal, and another that is lighter and more like a snack. If you have the main meal in the middle of the day then it is called "dinner". The snack you have at the end of the afternoon is "tea". If you have the main meal at the end of the afternoon it is "dinner". The snack you eat in the middle of the day is "lunch". The difference probably depends on if you go home for a meal at mid-day or not. The later is probably more traditional as people used to work or study much closer to home. And there was somebody around during the day to prepare a meal. But nowadays going home for a main meal in the middle of the day is unusual so we all just have a small snack.
- int_19h 9y ago
  It can be confusing when other languages get added to the mix, because they don't necessarily follow that convention. E.g. in Russian, you traditionally translate the main meal of the day as "dinner" in English - but it's actually eaten early in the afternoon (usually around 1pm), so it's more like lunch in that regard, and honestly should probably just be rendered as such. I often found that whenever I would refer to "dinner" in my conversation, my (native English speaking) friends would automatically assume the end-of-the-afternoon meal; and the idea of having a dinner with colleagues implies some sort of highly formal event. On the other hand, the after-work evening meal is usually less heavy, and is rendered as "supper" in English. And, again, I find that Americans usually assume that it takes place much later than it normally does, and is also much lighter than it normally is (basically a snack rather than a proper meal), if I use that word. So clearly there is some implicit time-of-day mapping there.

teh_klev 9y ago

I'm also originally from rural Scotland (around Tomintoul), for us it was "Breakfast", "Dinner" and "Supper". Upon moving to the central belt, and ingratiating myself into more middle class circles of friends I then discovered: Breakfast - eaten usually when you get up in the morning, say early morning until ~1030am Lunch - eaten from 12pm until ~2:30pm Afternoon Tea - taken from around 3:30pm until 4:30pm (cakes/biscuits [cookies] and would also include some kind of sandwich - often cut into triangles) Tea - 5pm until 6pm - usually a lighter two course meal (say an omlette) and some pudding (desert). Dinner - taken from 7pm until perhaps 9pm - this would be a fully laiden two or three course meal. Supper - taken from around 10pm until around 11pm (or just before bedtime) - likely cheese on toast or crackers & cheese and a cuppa. Obviously you don't need to have every one of these meals every day of the week.

klipt 9y ago
I see where Tolkien got his inspiration for Hobbit meals...
- Brakenshire 9y ago
  He's actually missing out elevenses and brunch.
  - teh_klev 9y ago
    Damn, forgot about brunch. Too late to edit in now. I left out elevenses because that's really just a cup of tea and a rich tea or digestive. I feel you need a bit more than that for it to be classified as a proper meal.
  - douchescript 9y ago
    Yes and frunch!
  - adrianratnapala 9y ago
    And then there is "Second Breakfast". Or was that only in the movies?

voidlogic 9y ago

There is tons of disagreement about this stuff, as it varies so much region to region, but in general, in most English peaking places: The three meals are "Breakfast", "Lunch" and "Supper". And if Lunch or Supper is the biggest/most formal meal of the day it may be called "Dinner" instead. Hence family "Christmas Dinner" may be at lunch time, but your "Dinner party" is in the evening.

umanwizard 9y ago
Thanks, I was always confused about why people talk about having "Thanksgiving Dinner" in the early afternoon and now it makes perfect sense.
gumby 9y ago
I have only encountered “supper” as the name of a primary meal in parts of the USA. I think “breakfast, lunch, dinner” likely is the most widespread formulation. I never heard “supper” in Australia or Canada at all.
- voidlogic 9y ago
  Its all highly regional, but I believe my characterization is an accurate generalization. Checkout the "Word Origin and History for X" for: 1. http://www.dictionary.com/browse/supper http://www.dictionary.com/browse/supper 2. http://www.dictionary.com/browse/dinner http://www.dictionary.com/browse/dinner Interesting side note, Sup (verb) the root word for supper has been in the (old) English language since before 900 AD.
- int_19h 9y ago
  FWIW, I was taught "breakfast", "dinner", "supper" at school, and their English courses were supposed to closely follow British usage (although I'm not sure which regional dialects, if any specific ones, they tracked in practice). We were taught "lunch" as well, but it was treated more like a second breakfast.

ian0 9y ago

In farms in Ireland its typically Breakfast - Dinner - Tea. Where your main meal of the day (dinner) is around 12-1pm and the evening meal (tea) is light. Your occasional cup of tea before bed is supper. Outside of farming people have their main meal (dinner) when they come home from their office in the evening. So the lighter meal in the afternoon becomes lunch and theres no tea.