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> A new study led by geologists at the University of Johannesburg found that compounds in the Hypatia stone are distinct from anything discovered in the solar

> A new study led by geologists at the University of Johannesburg found that compounds in the Hypatia stone are distinct from anything discovered in the solar system. The researchers therefore conclude that parts of the rock formed before the solar system, and if these compounds are not presolar, the prevailing idea that the solar system formed from a nebula of homogenous gas is called into question. Couldn't it have come from outside our solar system, in which case it is pretty much irrelevant whether it is presolar or not? Granted, that would also make it pretty exciting :-) It seems a bit premature to question the formation theory of the solar system, based on a single rock from which we don't know if it even formed inside the solar system.

nraynaud 9y ago
It might be an issue of travel time.
- ljoshua 9y ago
  I originally read this as "It might be an issue of time travel," which would be another very fun possibility to consider. ;)
- nraynaud 9y ago
  I went to read the paper and I am wrong, they looked at the minerals and the physical conditions to form them, and they are consistent with a place and a phase of the creation of the solar system.
- unchocked 9y ago
  Probably not. Oumuamua, the first extrasolar object we've tracked through the solar system, has a hyperbolic excess velocity of ~30km/s, or 1/10,000 of light speed. So in a billion years, such an object could travel 100k light years, or the diameter of the entire galaxy. Sub-relativistic interstellar travel is very slow on human timescales, but fast on geologic ones.
jacobush 9y ago
Yes, I'd also go with the "Alien spaceship crashed in Africa 28 million years ago" theory. :-)
- Cthulhu_ 9y ago
  Outside our solar system does not equate to the grandparent going "IT'S ALIENS!"; that's all you.
  - jacobush 9y ago
    Funny coming from cthulhu... :)
    - lsaferite 9y ago
      It's a shame this comment was down-voted. It's awesome.
    - TeMPOraL 9y ago
      I wouldn't laugh. What Cthulhu_ meant is that the real explanation is something no human can even attempt to understand without immediately going insane. Calling it "aliens" is just our naïve, simplistic way of wishing away the cosmos.
      - fragmede 9y ago
        "Cthulhu" is the name of a character (well, Great Old One) from writer H. P. Lovecraft who is an other worldly being aka an alien.
        groovy2shoes 9y ago
        I have a feeling TeMPOraL knows this, since their post is rife with Lovecraftian cosmicism :)
acqq 9y ago
Read the text 'russdill linked in another comment: "Most (99 percent) of the meteorite inventory on Earth comes from the main asteroid belt, between the orbits of Mars and Jupiter. A small fraction of meteorites come from Mars (about 180) and the Moon (about 275). Some meteorites have been suspected to come from comets. Famous astronomer Carl Sagan once said, “It is unlikely that a single meteorite of extrasolar origin has ever reached the surface of the Earth.” Numerical calculations suggest that the possibility of exchange of meteoritic fragments between stellar systems is highly unlikely. Indeed, extrasolar meteorites have not been identified in our meteorite collections." So it's still highly probable that it's still from the stuff of our solar system, it's just the question how homogeneous the stuff was and did the stuff coalesce before or after the Sun was formed. But we know that stuff formed in the cold, from the University of Johannesburg press release: https://www.uj.ac.za/newandevents/Pages/UJ%E2%80%99s-newest-A-rated-researcher-shows-Hypatia-stone-questions-formation-of-solar-system-.aspx https://www.uj.ac.za/newandevents/Pages/UJ%E2%80%99s-newest-... "What we do know is that Hypatia was formed in a cold environment, probably at temperatures below that of liquid nitrogen on Earth (-196 Celsius). In our solar system it would have been way further out than the asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter, where most meteorites come from. Comets come mainly from the Kuiper Belt, beyond the orbit of Neptune and about 40 times as far away from the sun as we are. Some come from the Oort Cloud, even further out. We know very little about the chemical compositions of space objects out there. So our next question will dig further into where Hypatia came from."
- saalweachter 9y ago
  Was that quote from Sagan basically saying "panspermia is very unlikely"?
  - pbhjpbhj 9y ago
    Universes are very unlikely. Life is very unlikely. Applying statistical analysis to single instances of things always seems like a major flaw to me - it being unlikely means that if we have a million earths few will have extra-solar matter on them. It doesn't really help when you have one Earth.
jacquesm 9y ago
> are distinct from anything discovered in the solar system. Well, they just discovered it so that should be 'discovered so far'. And how much do we know about the solar system to begin with, if it took this long to analyze a rock that was on the planet to begin with it stands to reason there will be many rocks like it and possibly others entirely unlike it in the rest of the solar system.

nraynaud 9y ago

It might be an issue of travel time.

ljoshua 9y ago
I originally read this as "It might be an issue of time travel," which would be another very fun possibility to consider. ;)
nraynaud 9y ago
I went to read the paper and I am wrong, they looked at the minerals and the physical conditions to form them, and they are consistent with a place and a phase of the creation of the solar system.
unchocked 9y ago
Probably not. Oumuamua, the first extrasolar object we've tracked through the solar system, has a hyperbolic excess velocity of ~30km/s, or 1/10,000 of light speed. So in a billion years, such an object could travel 100k light years, or the diameter of the entire galaxy. Sub-relativistic interstellar travel is very slow on human timescales, but fast on geologic ones.

jacobush 9y ago

Yes, I'd also go with the "Alien spaceship crashed in Africa 28 million years ago" theory. :-)

Cthulhu_ 9y ago
Outside our solar system does not equate to the grandparent going "IT'S ALIENS!"; that's all you.
- jacobush 9y ago
  Funny coming from cthulhu... :)
  - lsaferite 9y ago
    It's a shame this comment was down-voted. It's awesome.
  - TeMPOraL 9y ago
    I wouldn't laugh. What Cthulhu_ meant is that the real explanation is something no human can even attempt to understand without immediately going insane. Calling it "aliens" is just our naïve, simplistic way of wishing away the cosmos.
    - fragmede 9y ago
      "Cthulhu" is the name of a character (well, Great Old One) from writer H. P. Lovecraft who is an other worldly being aka an alien.
      - groovy2shoes 9y ago
        I have a feeling TeMPOraL knows this, since their post is rife with Lovecraftian cosmicism :)

acqq 9y ago

Read the text 'russdill linked in another comment: "Most (99 percent) of the meteorite inventory on Earth comes from the main asteroid belt, between the orbits of Mars and Jupiter. A small fraction of meteorites come from Mars (about 180) and the Moon (about 275). Some meteorites have been suspected to come from comets. Famous astronomer Carl Sagan once said, “It is unlikely that a single meteorite of extrasolar origin has ever reached the surface of the Earth.” Numerical calculations suggest that the possibility of exchange of meteoritic fragments between stellar systems is highly unlikely. Indeed, extrasolar meteorites have not been identified in our meteorite collections." So it's still highly probable that it's still from the stuff of our solar system, it's just the question how homogeneous the stuff was and did the stuff coalesce before or after the Sun was formed. But we know that stuff formed in the cold, from the University of Johannesburg press release: https://www.uj.ac.za/newandevents/Pages/UJ%E2%80%99s-newest-A-rated-researcher-shows-Hypatia-stone-questions-formation-of-solar-system-.aspx https://www.uj.ac.za/newandevents/Pages/UJ%E2%80%99s-newest-... "What we do know is that Hypatia was formed in a cold environment, probably at temperatures below that of liquid nitrogen on Earth (-196 Celsius). In our solar system it would have been way further out than the asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter, where most meteorites come from. Comets come mainly from the Kuiper Belt, beyond the orbit of Neptune and about 40 times as far away from the sun as we are. Some come from the Oort Cloud, even further out. We know very little about the chemical compositions of space objects out there. So our next question will dig further into where Hypatia came from."

saalweachter 9y ago
Was that quote from Sagan basically saying "panspermia is very unlikely"?
- pbhjpbhj 9y ago
  Universes are very unlikely. Life is very unlikely. Applying statistical analysis to single instances of things always seems like a major flaw to me - it being unlikely means that if we have a million earths few will have extra-solar matter on them. It doesn't really help when you have one Earth.

jacquesm 9y ago

> are distinct from anything discovered in the solar system. Well, they just discovered it so that should be 'discovered so far'. And how much do we know about the solar system to begin with, if it took this long to analyze a rock that was on the planet to begin with it stands to reason there will be many rocks like it and possibly others entirely unlike it in the rest of the solar system.