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it's the fault of Intel, why don't they recall all the CPU? just like vehicle company
by ask098 9y ago
it's the fault of Intel, why don't they recall all the CPU? just like vehicle company
- hodgesrm 9y agoThat might just create yet more problems. You can't just plug a new CPU into your motherboard--it has to match the socket, chipset, memory, installed OS, etc.
- StillBored 9y agoWell if they didn't change the socket every year... Realistically though, they might be able to do it for cpu's that aren't soldered on (think just about every laptop) made in the last year or two, but would they really fab new versions of 10 year old cores? Its not like many of those lines are even running anymore, so they would basically have to redesign/layout and reverify everything. Probably easier/cheaper just to send everyone a new machine.
- hodgesrm 9y agoOr give a price break on future hardware. The fix is turning out to be incredibly expensive for ordinary users, virtualization vendors, hardware vendors, OS providers, cloud providers, etc. This incident demonstrates why you really don't want catastrophic bugs in the CPU. The fact that the hardware vendors missed this one makes you wonder what else is out there.
- gruez 9y ago>Or give a price break on future hardware feels like this would happen: >intel agrees to give consumers a $30 price break in response to meltdown/spectre >in other news, intel raises the prices of next generation CPUs by $30
- Dylan16807 9y agoMake it $60 and I'll take that, all the better for them to get undercut by AMD.
- bitL 9y agoAnd how would they replace the bad part when a good one doesn't exist?
- QAPereo 9y agoWith money, and a handwritten apology soaked in the tears of their C-levels? Or just the money actually. If you can’t replace my broken item, a refund is always appreciated.
- imglorp 9y agoBryan Cantrill refrence has been noted.
- bcantrill 9y agoThat was a reference to me? If so -- I'm flattered. I haven't yet asked Intel to soak a written apology with their tears, but it's an excellent idea! (I have, however, given them many other candid thoughts on how they can improve their handling of Spectre and Meltdown -- but so far, to no avail.)
- JonRB 9y agoDoesn't this affect all of their CPUs going a long way back? And how do you recall embedded or laptop CPUs, which are often soldered in-place? A recall would be great, but there's no way they'd be able to do it. Vehicle recalls are a bit different because they impact physical safety. Digital safety doesn't get the same priority.
- QAPereo 9y agoHow about they go into bankruptcy with most of the world’s computer users as their creditors? Maybe not, but it’s terrifying that you can avoid responsibility by fucking up on a larger scale than most.
- semi-extrinsic 9y agoAlso vehicle recalls are usually done by fixing stuff next time the vehicle comes in for regularly scheduled service. How often does your computer get those?
- en4bz 9y agoA * B * C = X
- george3383 9y agoIs this a Fight Club reference?
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- valarauca1 9y agoThey really should. The problem is this nearly every single processor Intel shipped for a decade so Intel doesn't have the cash flow to RMA that many replacements. They're going to fight tooth and nail to avoid this.
- MBCook 9y agoNot a decade or so. Since the Pentium Pro. So since ‘95 or ‘96.
- lunorian 9y agoWait if a court forces Intel to replace processors with a safe one does that mean I get new macbook?
- StillBored 9y agoI can't imagine a court doing anything. The cost to intel is simply to high, and its not like they were negligent given that ARM/POWER/etc are all vulnerable to some extent too. This whole thing is the equivalent of discovering that if someone throws enough nails on the road your car will blow a tire, spin out of control and kill you. With the kneejerk reaction of trying to fill everyone's tires with concrete to avoid the tires blowing out rather than trying to figure out how to keep people from throwing nails on the road (with the idea that spiteful users are more likely on toll roads) in the first place.
- CogitoCogito 9y agoI agree with you that the courts probably won't do much, but you should not group all the CPU manufacturers together. Meltdown mainly (only?) affects Intel. It's spectre that affects basically everyone.
- derekp7 9y agoActually, it is more like that someone can throw a rock through a car window and then compromise the car door lock. Or, probably more accurately, that a hitchhiker can knock you out of the car, and drive off with it. Spectre/Meltdown ONLY is an issue if you run some untrusted code on your system. If you avoid this, there is not problem. Yes, we like to be able to run untrusted code (such as in a web browser / javascript), but that is not the fault of a car manufacturer that you like to pick up hitchhikers.
- willk 9y agoIs this endangering the life of anyone? A car manufacturer doesn't do a recall if personal safety isn't at risk.
- dmschulman 9y agoThey will often refuse to do a recall even if personal safety is at risk. The real quantifier is how much financial damage the auto company will endure in the event they do or do not do a recall
- cr0sh 9y ago> They will often refuse to do a recall even if personal safety is at risk. Ford Pinto, anyone... Another one that many people don't know about is a problem with old 2-door Tahoes; a bracket on the driver's side seat likes to fail upon quick acceleration - such as when getting on the freeway, for instance. One minute you're upright, pushing the pedal to get up to speed, the next - whoops! - flat on your back! If you're lucky, you live to tell the tale... AFAIK, GM never issued a recall about that one (it caused me to pass on a really nice lifted 4wd Tahoe a few years back)...
- brewdad 9y agoEh, sometimes they do for the sake of brand preservation. If personal safety is at risk they will do a recall, either voluntary or mandated by the NHTSA.
- derekp7 9y agoBut they have yet to do any recalls for cars that are susceptible to being broken into using a slim jim.
- tchaffee 9y agoVolkswagen emissions recall.
- _Nat_ 9y agoAre you suggesting that we recall the great bulk of modern CPU's? Like, literally gut everyone's computers, including those in data centers and running critical infrastructure, until replacements are eventually manufactured? Or did you mean something else?
- Consultant32452 9y agoBoxed Intel processors carry a 3 year warranty. It certainly seems reasonable for everyone who bought a CPU within the last 3 years to expect a warranty replacement with the manufacturer defect fixed. In the EU virtually every product comes with a 2 year warranty. So every CPU sold in the EU in the last two years should be replaced for free by Intel, even through OEMs. I wonder what potential class action lawsuits Intel might be facing.
- rlanday 9y agoAny sufficiently complex CPU surely contains some number of defects, perhaps even serious security defects, just as any sufficiently complex piece of software contains bugs and security holes. I wouldn't be surprised if someone tries to sue Intel over this, or even if they win, but this is way outside the scope of what a warranty would traditionally cover, which in the case of a CPU would be hardware failure. If a warranty had to cover every possible defect, a bunch of people would be constantly trying to get free CPUs out of Intel every time they updated their errata: https://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/public/us/en/documents/specification-updates/7th-gen-core-family-spec-update.pdf https://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/public/us/en/documents... Note that the cost of overly onerous regulation (e.g. requiring that every computer manufacturer replace these chips even though the problems can largely be worked around in software) is of course passed onto consumers.
- Consultant32452 9y agoOf course the cost of producing products that actually perform at the level they're advertised to perform is passed onto the consumer, regardless of regulation.
- nkkollaw 9y agoI want to be there for question 099.
- myth_drannon 9y agoFaulty vehicle it's a potential accident with multiple casualities vs a hacked computer with potential loss of your private emails or whatever.
- tchaffee 9y agoOr just a case of emissions violation?
- timonovici 9y agoWhat if that computer is running something critical, say a reactor, and elevator or some device in a hospital? Computers are everywhere these days... Todays proof-of-concept becomes tommorow's metasploit module - and could cause large damage even in incompetent people's hands.
- pmontra 9y agoAnd replace them with what? They don't have any current processor that doesn't have the same bugs. It will be years before they design and make one. The best we can do is some class action and get a refund, but not too much or they'll go broke and close.
- tchaffee 9y ago> And replace them with what? An AMD CPU?
- pmontra 9y agoWhich doesn't have Meltdown but still has Spectre. Furthermore you have to replace at least the whole motherboard on a desktop or probably all of your laptop except the discs and maybe the RAM.
- tchaffee 9y ago> still has Spectre I didn't realize that when I made the comment, and I agree my suggestion falls flat now that I know. > You have to replace at least the whole motherboard on a desktop or probably all of your laptop except the discs and maybe the RAM. I'm ok with putting that responsibility on Intel to remedy the situation, even if it deeply hurt them financially or put them out of business. If you sell a faulty product that doesn't live up to its description, yes you risk actually going out of business. But with the fact that AMD has Spectre this idea of replacement no longer makes much sense and your original idea of a partial refund makes the most sense.
- dbenhur 9y agoMost vehicle recalls are not of the form: return your vehicle, we give you a new fixed one; but rather: bring your vehicle to one of our dealers and they'll perform some action to repair the defect. The later is pretty analogous to issuing firmware and OS patches to mitigate the flaw.
- 1stranger 9y agoWhat if the fix to the car reduced your MPG by 30% to address a safety issue? This seems somewhat analogous to the number being bandied about as the CPU performance decrease. (Depends on workload, etc, etc.) I think most car owners would expect some kind of compensation for a product that no longer has the same efficiency as when they bought it.
- zoe1337 9y agoThis issue is similar to what happened with the Volkswagen emission cheat. After they fix the ECU to have the advertised NOx emissions, the car lost peak power and fuel efficiency.