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Apple to FBI: No you can't get into iPhones, our users want security. Apple to China: Here are the keys

jitl 9y ago
The difference is that it’s within Apple’s rights in the US to refuse to cooperate with a warrant in the way that they did. The constitution of the United States has strong protections for individuals’ privacy from the state. This is not the case in China. In both cases, they are protecting user privacy to the greatest extent they can by law. Secondly, Apple is not handing the keys to their system over to China. Instead, they are deploying a separate system for Chinese accounts to preserve the privacy and security of all other accounts. And finally, they are not compromising the Secure Enclave or any device security features.
- msh 9y ago
  They absolutely have the right to refuse to cooperate with the Chinese government, its called refusing to do business in China.
  - seanmcdirmid 9y ago
    Who is "They"? If it is "Tim Cook", then Tim Cook has the right to be CEO and do business in China, or get fired. If you mean Apple stock holders, I'm sure they wouldn't be happy about taking a huge hit on their second or (at times) first largest market. Would you be willing to slice your retirement savings in half for this?
    - msh 9y ago
      Google pulled out of China, so some times companies put principles before short term profit. Something Tim Cook have claimed apple also does, but apparently not in regards to China.
      - seanmcdirmid 9y ago
        Google wasn't making > 25% of their money in China. I applauded Google's move when they did it back then (and I worked down the street from their Wudaokou office), but it is completely obvious why Apple, as a public company who makes a lot of money in China, can't pull out now.
        bitmapbrother 9y ago
        Your comment just proved his point that Apple puts their Chinese profits over their user's privacy. What percentage of Google's profits would come from China had they stayed there and acquiesced to the government demands? 15%? 20%? I wonder how much profit Google has missed out on by not doing business in China.
        seanmcdirmid 9y ago
        It isn't there choice! Apple isn't a person, you have to understand that. Apple is your retirement fund or whatever investment, its a public company. Tim Cook can either say "I want us to be in China" or he can leave, because no sane board is going to let him stay and say otherwise. Blame capitalism, blame human desire for money, whatever, but don't blame the company for choosing the only option it had. Google didn't miss out on much at all, it was clear way before they pulled out that they wouldn't be allowed to go very far in search. Also, Google only pulled out of search in China, they actually still do plenty of business in China.
MollyR 9y ago
Wow,I didn't think of that example. It's a pretty huge hypocrisy.
- lostmsu 9y ago
  This is assuming "you can't get into iPhones" was not a poker face while they were passing information.
- MBCook 9y ago
  In both cases they’re complying with the laws. The data may be stored with a Chinese company but it’s still encrypted isn’t it? They can’t read it can they?
  - tpush 9y ago
    Third sentence from the artice: "They include a clause that both Apple and the Chinese firm will have access to all data stored on iCloud.". If the Chinese firm couldn't read the data access would be pretty pointless me thinks.
    - MBCook 9y ago
      I’d agree, but that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s not true. I could see Apple trying to keep certain data encrypted in private in exchange for other less important data being “open“.
  - samat 9y ago
    Have a look at their recent whitepaper, most of it is not https://www.apple.com/business/docs/iOS_Security_Guide.pdf https://www.apple.com/business/docs/iOS_Security_Guide.pdf

jitl 9y ago

The difference is that it’s within Apple’s rights in the US to refuse to cooperate with a warrant in the way that they did. The constitution of the United States has strong protections for individuals’ privacy from the state. This is not the case in China. In both cases, they are protecting user privacy to the greatest extent they can by law. Secondly, Apple is not handing the keys to their system over to China. Instead, they are deploying a separate system for Chinese accounts to preserve the privacy and security of all other accounts. And finally, they are not compromising the Secure Enclave or any device security features.

msh 9y ago
They absolutely have the right to refuse to cooperate with the Chinese government, its called refusing to do business in China.
- seanmcdirmid 9y ago
  Who is "They"? If it is "Tim Cook", then Tim Cook has the right to be CEO and do business in China, or get fired. If you mean Apple stock holders, I'm sure they wouldn't be happy about taking a huge hit on their second or (at times) first largest market. Would you be willing to slice your retirement savings in half for this?
  - msh 9y ago
    Google pulled out of China, so some times companies put principles before short term profit. Something Tim Cook have claimed apple also does, but apparently not in regards to China.
    - seanmcdirmid 9y ago
      Google wasn't making > 25% of their money in China. I applauded Google's move when they did it back then (and I worked down the street from their Wudaokou office), but it is completely obvious why Apple, as a public company who makes a lot of money in China, can't pull out now.
      - bitmapbrother 9y ago
        Your comment just proved his point that Apple puts their Chinese profits over their user's privacy. What percentage of Google's profits would come from China had they stayed there and acquiesced to the government demands? 15%? 20%? I wonder how much profit Google has missed out on by not doing business in China.
        seanmcdirmid 9y ago
        It isn't there choice! Apple isn't a person, you have to understand that. Apple is your retirement fund or whatever investment, its a public company. Tim Cook can either say "I want us to be in China" or he can leave, because no sane board is going to let him stay and say otherwise. Blame capitalism, blame human desire for money, whatever, but don't blame the company for choosing the only option it had. Google didn't miss out on much at all, it was clear way before they pulled out that they wouldn't be allowed to go very far in search. Also, Google only pulled out of search in China, they actually still do plenty of business in China.

MollyR 9y ago

Wow,I didn't think of that example. It's a pretty huge hypocrisy.

lostmsu 9y ago
This is assuming "you can't get into iPhones" was not a poker face while they were passing information.
MBCook 9y ago
In both cases they’re complying with the laws. The data may be stored with a Chinese company but it’s still encrypted isn’t it? They can’t read it can they?
- tpush 9y ago
  Third sentence from the artice: "They include a clause that both Apple and the Chinese firm will have access to all data stored on iCloud.". If the Chinese firm couldn't read the data access would be pretty pointless me thinks.
  - MBCook 9y ago
    I’d agree, but that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s not true. I could see Apple trying to keep certain data encrypted in private in exchange for other less important data being “open“.
- samat 9y ago
  Have a look at their recent whitepaper, most of it is not https://www.apple.com/business/docs/iOS_Security_Guide.pdf https://www.apple.com/business/docs/iOS_Security_Guide.pdf