5 ms·

The batteries are not free. How about a user replaceable battery design?

by PacketPaul 9y ago

austenallred 9y ago
The trade-offs that come with that would completely destroy everything that makes iPhones great.
- jhack 9y ago
  Maybe if they made their iPhones that fraction of a millimetre thicker, they'd have the courage to bring back a headphone jack into their $1000 phones.
  - ceejayoz 9y ago
    Wasn't the point to have better waterproofing? IIRC the keynote mentioned it being the main spot for water intrusion.
    - mad182 9y ago
      I have a waterproof phone with jack.
  - austenallred 9y ago
    I know it's not common for people to say this out loud, but I spent $1200 on an iPhone last month, and a. I don't care about a headphone jack, at all; I use Airpods and the experience is phenomenal b. Consider me crazy, but I actually like my phones getting smaller and lighter What if Apple is just making a phone for people like me, and is comfortable with those trade-offs?
    - matwood 9y ago
      I'm with you. The iPhone X is the best iPhone I've ever used. The headphone jack uproar was a tempest in a teapot. Apple saw the stats that either a) people use the headphone that come with the phone or b) they upgrade to wireless headphones. The small group of people using expensive wired headphones can afford an additional $7 permanent attachment. Yes, Apple prioritizes size and design over everything else. Removable batteries add size, weight, and likely impact the water proof ability of the device. Even when I had a phone that could easily swap batteries I never bought additional ones because they were not cheap and would be discarded when I got a new phone. I'll also say that I'm happy with the change Apple did here. They failed at communicating it, but I have been on the receiving end of an older phone that would shutdown/crash with plenty of battery left, and would have preferred it to slow down so I could at least use it.
      - thanatropism 9y ago
        I'm just an anecdote, but I lamented the removal of the headphone jack because it means my 6SE is my last iPhone. I take pills for attention deficit disorder. I lose stuff. I lose corded and cordless headphones multiple times a month. And hey, I know my inattentiveness to be an annoying end of a spectrum. People have things going on in their lives. Not everyone neatly takes care of their in-separate-ears tiny bluetooth speakers. We're a segment of the market. They're betting that they can do better without the likes of us -- lose some, earn more from the rest. Maybe their cash position enables them to take such risks.
        EdSharkey 9y ago
        Companies like Apple actually take accessibility really seriously though, which I applaud. That said, there's a pecking order to disabilities that these companies have to service. I can tell you that blindness is top of the heap and cognitive disabilities are bottom of the heap. It's a crummy situation for users like you when a disability doesn't weigh as heavily as the product design goals - grumble, the world is broken. I imagine a headphone jack must use a lot of space within the case, which creates a lot of hardware design headaches that go beyond waterproofing. I see some people at my workplace who walk around all day with a full bluetooth headset around their neck (not earbuds, like the big cans type) even when not in use, almost as a fashion accessory or statement. Perhaps you could experiment with those kinds of bluetooth headsets if you upgrade to a new iPhone. Obviously that doesn't solve your headset needs for running though, grumble grumble.
        thanatropism 9y ago
        There are other smartphone companies, albeit with inferior products, that have models with headphone jacks.
        EdSharkey 9y ago
        Design is a big priority for all these companies. :shrug:
    - wwweston 9y ago
      > I don't care about a headphone jack, at all Does "works for me" work for you as a reason for closing a software ticket? Built-in speakers and bluetooth are probably the most common audio output cases for me, and I suspect it's that way for most people. It's totally fine and probably a good idea to recognize that and improve the experience on that front. But complicating corner cases are a definite reality. If you're someone who was treating your iPhone as a digital musical instrument, for example, bluetooth's latency probably makes it a no go for you. But of course, that's too niche, not a market that Apple does or should have to care about, those people should be buying more complicated niche hardware, right? OK, let's use a "normal consumer" example: if you're someone who likes to connect your iPhone to a car stereo, then maaaybe bluetooth will work out for you, or maybe it's going to be an interesting challenge dealing with the auto/stereo manufacturer's implementation. A 1/8" aux input? Just works. And lets you charge your phone at the same time. Or at least it did. And before someone says "well, get a dongle" -- a dongle isn't "just works." And that's the thing that bothers me so much about this. It's essentially a user-hostile decision for some portion of users, with no particularly compelling upside for the rest of users... but a thin margin of manufacturing savings and a nice accessories/integration play, I suppose. I fully expect that's just business for many enterprises and "just works" is an acceptable casualty, but I didn't expect it from Apple. But I do now. > I actually like my phones getting smaller and lighter Surely there's a point of not only diminishing but actually vanishing returns. Maybe literally. I recognize that's not going to be the same for everyone, but for me "diminishing" started around the form factor of the original iPhone and I stopped seeing any particular utility in shrinking around the 4s.
      - austenallred 9y ago
        It’s really simple: 1. It’s impossible for Apple to make a device that perfectly pleases everyone 2. Not all feature sets are possible 3. Apple constantly makes decisions about which trade-offs to make Sometimes you’re just not the target market for a device a company makes. That’s ok, and it isn’t necessarily the fault of the company that such is the case, they just opted for a different feature set than the one you would have preferred.
        9y ago
    - asendra 9y ago
      I also spent the corresponding amount for an X in my country but, a. Good luck when you run out of battery on your AirPods, or you loose one, or you forget them etc. It sure is nice to have the flexibility (Not to mention the much higher audio quality with proper iems/headpphones) b. My X is considerably bigger and specially, heavier than my 6s.
  - jsz0 9y ago
    The iPhone X is thicker than previous generation models.
- megaman22 9y ago
  It was pretty fantastic on the Samsung hardware that was contemporaneous with many iPhone designs. Sadly the Galaxies have jumped on that bandwagon.
  - austenallred 9y ago
    Do you ever wonder if there's a reason why that's the case?
    - megaman22 9y ago
      I'm sure it's cheaper to solder it in, and you don't have to make the components sturdy enough to stand up to repeated assembly and dissassembly. I still hate it. It was nice to be able to have a stack of charged batteries and not worry about being away from an outlet for three or four days. Especially with a phone that had its USB port melted by a shoddy cable.
      - austenallred 9y ago
        I don't think it's just about it being cheap; I think it's about literally making some sizes and configurations of phones work. If you look at where the battery is currently (https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/2oa2QHEoq4Ke16su.medium https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/2oa2QHEoq4Ke16su.m...) there's no way to make the battery accessible without letting you easily open the entire case. It's just a trade-off, and a replacable battery isn't worth the trade-offs. I 100% agree with Apple on this.
        MBCook 9y ago
        Which all of a sudden makes it EXTREMELY hard to waterproof compared to what you’re working on right now, which was a big win on the 6S and seven.
        xbkingx 9y ago
        Galaxy S5 was waterproof with a removable back. All the current waterproof phones have SIM card trays, mic holes, cord connectors, speakers, etc, so it might not be as 'extreme' as you're thinking. Just need a continuous rubber gasket and a tight fit. Of course making your phone out of materials that bend or shatter instead of flexing becomes a bigger problem, especially since the former offers no practical benefit beyond 'feel'.
looiid 9y ago
The battery is user replaceable. If a minimum wage earner in the mall can do it with a few basic tools it isn’t that difficult.
- goialoq 9y ago
  How do you know the wage for battery replacement?
- oneeyedpigeon 9y ago
  If replacing the battery voids the warranty, that doesn't count as 'user replaceable' in my book.
  - MBCook 9y ago
    If the phone is in warranty then they’ll take care of it for you. If it’s out of warranty then it doesn’t matter.
- scarface74 9y ago
  If replacing the battery voids the warranty, that doesn't count as 'user replaceable' in my book. If the phone is under warranty, why wouldn't you take it to Apple and let them replace it for free?

The batteries are not free. How about a user replaceable battery design?

austenallred 9y ago

The trade-offs that come with that would completely destroy everything that makes iPhones great.

jhack 9y ago
Maybe if they made their iPhones that fraction of a millimetre thicker, they'd have the courage to bring back a headphone jack into their $1000 phones.
- ceejayoz 9y ago
  Wasn't the point to have better waterproofing? IIRC the keynote mentioned it being the main spot for water intrusion.
  - mad182 9y ago
    I have a waterproof phone with jack.
- austenallred 9y ago
  I know it's not common for people to say this out loud, but I spent $1200 on an iPhone last month, and a. I don't care about a headphone jack, at all; I use Airpods and the experience is phenomenal b. Consider me crazy, but I actually like my phones getting smaller and lighter What if Apple is just making a phone for people like me, and is comfortable with those trade-offs?
  - matwood 9y ago
    I'm with you. The iPhone X is the best iPhone I've ever used. The headphone jack uproar was a tempest in a teapot. Apple saw the stats that either a) people use the headphone that come with the phone or b) they upgrade to wireless headphones. The small group of people using expensive wired headphones can afford an additional $7 permanent attachment. Yes, Apple prioritizes size and design over everything else. Removable batteries add size, weight, and likely impact the water proof ability of the device. Even when I had a phone that could easily swap batteries I never bought additional ones because they were not cheap and would be discarded when I got a new phone. I'll also say that I'm happy with the change Apple did here. They failed at communicating it, but I have been on the receiving end of an older phone that would shutdown/crash with plenty of battery left, and would have preferred it to slow down so I could at least use it.
    - thanatropism 9y ago
      I'm just an anecdote, but I lamented the removal of the headphone jack because it means my 6SE is my last iPhone. I take pills for attention deficit disorder. I lose stuff. I lose corded and cordless headphones multiple times a month. And hey, I know my inattentiveness to be an annoying end of a spectrum. People have things going on in their lives. Not everyone neatly takes care of their in-separate-ears tiny bluetooth speakers. We're a segment of the market. They're betting that they can do better without the likes of us -- lose some, earn more from the rest. Maybe their cash position enables them to take such risks.
      - EdSharkey 9y ago
        Companies like Apple actually take accessibility really seriously though, which I applaud. That said, there's a pecking order to disabilities that these companies have to service. I can tell you that blindness is top of the heap and cognitive disabilities are bottom of the heap. It's a crummy situation for users like you when a disability doesn't weigh as heavily as the product design goals - grumble, the world is broken. I imagine a headphone jack must use a lot of space within the case, which creates a lot of hardware design headaches that go beyond waterproofing. I see some people at my workplace who walk around all day with a full bluetooth headset around their neck (not earbuds, like the big cans type) even when not in use, almost as a fashion accessory or statement. Perhaps you could experiment with those kinds of bluetooth headsets if you upgrade to a new iPhone. Obviously that doesn't solve your headset needs for running though, grumble grumble.
        thanatropism 9y ago
        There are other smartphone companies, albeit with inferior products, that have models with headphone jacks.
        EdSharkey 9y ago
        Design is a big priority for all these companies. :shrug:
  - wwweston 9y ago
    > I don't care about a headphone jack, at all Does "works for me" work for you as a reason for closing a software ticket? Built-in speakers and bluetooth are probably the most common audio output cases for me, and I suspect it's that way for most people. It's totally fine and probably a good idea to recognize that and improve the experience on that front. But complicating corner cases are a definite reality. If you're someone who was treating your iPhone as a digital musical instrument, for example, bluetooth's latency probably makes it a no go for you. But of course, that's too niche, not a market that Apple does or should have to care about, those people should be buying more complicated niche hardware, right? OK, let's use a "normal consumer" example: if you're someone who likes to connect your iPhone to a car stereo, then maaaybe bluetooth will work out for you, or maybe it's going to be an interesting challenge dealing with the auto/stereo manufacturer's implementation. A 1/8" aux input? Just works. And lets you charge your phone at the same time. Or at least it did. And before someone says "well, get a dongle" -- a dongle isn't "just works." And that's the thing that bothers me so much about this. It's essentially a user-hostile decision for some portion of users, with no particularly compelling upside for the rest of users... but a thin margin of manufacturing savings and a nice accessories/integration play, I suppose. I fully expect that's just business for many enterprises and "just works" is an acceptable casualty, but I didn't expect it from Apple. But I do now. > I actually like my phones getting smaller and lighter Surely there's a point of not only diminishing but actually vanishing returns. Maybe literally. I recognize that's not going to be the same for everyone, but for me "diminishing" started around the form factor of the original iPhone and I stopped seeing any particular utility in shrinking around the 4s.
    - austenallred 9y ago
      It’s really simple: 1. It’s impossible for Apple to make a device that perfectly pleases everyone 2. Not all feature sets are possible 3. Apple constantly makes decisions about which trade-offs to make Sometimes you’re just not the target market for a device a company makes. That’s ok, and it isn’t necessarily the fault of the company that such is the case, they just opted for a different feature set than the one you would have preferred.
      - 9y ago
  - asendra 9y ago
    I also spent the corresponding amount for an X in my country but, a. Good luck when you run out of battery on your AirPods, or you loose one, or you forget them etc. It sure is nice to have the flexibility (Not to mention the much higher audio quality with proper iems/headpphones) b. My X is considerably bigger and specially, heavier than my 6s.
- jsz0 9y ago
  The iPhone X is thicker than previous generation models.
megaman22 9y ago
It was pretty fantastic on the Samsung hardware that was contemporaneous with many iPhone designs. Sadly the Galaxies have jumped on that bandwagon.
- austenallred 9y ago
  Do you ever wonder if there's a reason why that's the case?
  - megaman22 9y ago
    I'm sure it's cheaper to solder it in, and you don't have to make the components sturdy enough to stand up to repeated assembly and dissassembly. I still hate it. It was nice to be able to have a stack of charged batteries and not worry about being away from an outlet for three or four days. Especially with a phone that had its USB port melted by a shoddy cable.
    - austenallred 9y ago
      I don't think it's just about it being cheap; I think it's about literally making some sizes and configurations of phones work. If you look at where the battery is currently (https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/2oa2QHEoq4Ke16su.medium https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/2oa2QHEoq4Ke16su.m...) there's no way to make the battery accessible without letting you easily open the entire case. It's just a trade-off, and a replacable battery isn't worth the trade-offs. I 100% agree with Apple on this.
      - MBCook 9y ago
        Which all of a sudden makes it EXTREMELY hard to waterproof compared to what you’re working on right now, which was a big win on the 6S and seven.
        xbkingx 9y ago
        Galaxy S5 was waterproof with a removable back. All the current waterproof phones have SIM card trays, mic holes, cord connectors, speakers, etc, so it might not be as 'extreme' as you're thinking. Just need a continuous rubber gasket and a tight fit. Of course making your phone out of materials that bend or shatter instead of flexing becomes a bigger problem, especially since the former offers no practical benefit beyond 'feel'.

looiid 9y ago

The battery is user replaceable. If a minimum wage earner in the mall can do it with a few basic tools it isn’t that difficult.

goialoq 9y ago
How do you know the wage for battery replacement?
oneeyedpigeon 9y ago
If replacing the battery voids the warranty, that doesn't count as 'user replaceable' in my book.
- MBCook 9y ago
  If the phone is in warranty then they’ll take care of it for you. If it’s out of warranty then it doesn’t matter.
scarface74 9y ago
If replacing the battery voids the warranty, that doesn't count as 'user replaceable' in my book. If the phone is under warranty, why wouldn't you take it to Apple and let them replace it for free?