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I think this is a good response, and I think a lot of the outrage over this issue is overblown. At the end of the day there's a fundamental tradeoff that Apple

I think this is a good response, and I think a lot of the outrage over this issue is overblown. At the end of the day there's a fundamental tradeoff that Apple needs to make on behalf of their customers: performance or stability. They chose stability, and I think they have a convincing argument as to why: "It should go without saying that we think sudden, unexpected shutdowns are unacceptable. We don’t want any of our users to lose a call, miss taking a picture or have any other part of their iPhone experience interrupted if we can avoid it." I have two concerns: 1) They still haven't fully eliminated the sudden shutdown behavior. My old 5S would shut down randomly under 20% without warning. Sometimes it would make it all the way to 1-2%, but most of the time it was between 5-15%. You'd think they'd scale performance throttling untilt this wasn't an issue. 2) I think their messaging with respect to battery health and the battery being a consumable is pretty poor. As far as I can tell there's no built-in battery health indicator in iOS. Sure there are those dodgy "Super Battery Health Plus Pro" apps, but it seems like a diagnostic menu in settings would go a long way. Even more puzzling is that techs at the Apple Store have access to some sort of diagnostic that does this already. Last time I went to get another issue fixed the guy said that my battery was at 70% capacity and the voltage was pretty low. Why wait until '2018' to ship a self-serve version of this?

phonon 9y ago
> My old 5S would shut down randomly under 20% without warning. Sometimes it would make it all the way to 1-2%, but most of the time it was between 5-15%. "avoid unexpected shutdowns on iPhone 6, iPhone 6 Plus, iPhone 6s, iPhone 6s Plus, and iPhone SE[...]we recently extended the same support for iPhone 7 and iPhone 7 Plus" They did not apply the change to the 5S.
- rajacombinator 9y ago
  The change definitely didn’t fully solve the problem in the effected models either. (Can’t comment on if it was partially effective.) Recently had a sudden shutdown from 50%->0% on a 6S. It’s a decent response by Apple, although would have been better if they didn’t require a scandal to reduce their absurd markup on batteries.
  - tigershark 9y ago
    My wife just two days ago had a shutdown on a 6 at 45-50%
    - scoot 9y ago
      There's a free battery replacement "quality program" for that issue. [1] Also (unrelated, but will apply to many here), if you have a MacBook or MacBook Pro that the anti-glare coating has started to come off screen (typically around the edges), you can get a new screen for free. [2] [1]: https://www.apple.com/support/iphone6s-unexpectedshutdown/ https://www.apple.com/support/iphone6s-unexpectedshutdown/ [2]: https://www.macrumors.com/2017/11/17/apple-extends-free-staingate-repairs/ https://www.macrumors.com/2017/11/17/apple-extends-free-stai... (Apologies, couldn't find the Apple link.)
      - tigershark 9y ago
        No, the replacement program is for iPhone 6s, not iPhone 6.
        deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
- danbolt 9y ago
  I had the same issue with the 5S I'm typing on now, and replacing the battery a few months ago entirely solved that issue for me.
RayVR 9y ago
The outrage doesn't seem overblown to me. For years I knew that my iphones were becoming obsolete not entirely from the passage of time but instead from upgrading the OS. Apple insisted they were not slowing down devices. Now they claim that they started this in iOS 10.2, without notification. My experience has been that upgrading the OS results in degraded performance 100% of the time. Whether intentional or not Apple would not acknowledge the issue. The phone shutting down at X% charge has always started after an OS upgrade.
- enraged_camel 9y ago
  >>My experience has been that upgrading the OS results in degraded performance 100% of the time. Well yeah, since more features mean slower performance. I saw a noticeable performance decrease when I went from Windows 7 to Windows 8. That doesn't mean Microsoft started throttling the CPU.
  - X86BSD 9y ago
    Yeah I don’t understand that at all. Old hardware running new software always degrades performance. Always. Name one instance where that didn’t happen? Newer versions of windows. Newer iOS or Android. On old hardware always runs slower. That’s not deliberate it’s the progression of technology. Hardware is static software is not. You can’t upgrade the hardware in embedded spaces for the most part so you have to accept it can’t run the newer software as fast as a new piece of embedded hardware. It has slower IO, memory, CPU etc. This argument that someone is surprised old hardware is slower with new software is such a disingenuous statement. Either that or you clearly do not understand technology.
  - RayVR 9y ago
    I’m not saying I wouldn’t expect some slowdown but Apple essentially forces you to upgrade with no path to downgrade the os. After upgrading my iPhone 6 to iOS 11 I could not launch Lyft, uber took minutes to open, and even the built in message app would have multi-second lag on key press. If you are destroying what was a perfectly fine phone with a software release it should simply not be supported. I would have been content with an old version of iOS that had reasonable performance and did not result in my phone shutting down at 30%, which was a problem introduced with iOS 11.
mtgx 9y ago
It still sounds like a false dilemma to me. I've never had reboots on my Android phones because of battery problems. Maybe Apple just needs to buy better quality batteries? And perhaps higher capacity that are also capable of more charges before they lose too much of their original capacity?
- cjensen 9y ago
  Upthread at the moment there is a Samsung owner who does have shutdowns from battery problems. Part of it has to do with how the battery has been treated. Wild swings in charge daily cause damage. Hot temperatures cause damage. I'd guess most iPhone owners have little to no damage. But for those who do, slowing the phone and giving a warning is a good alternative to shutting down.
- bytecodes 9y ago
  The parent post actually mentions this happening on the 5S, a phone which did not get a software update choosing stability over performance. The 6 can slow down and run with a 20% battery while the 5S runs fast and must shut down due to the voltage drop.
- tigershark 9y ago
  I had plenty of reboot, freezes and boot-cycles on my not even 1 and half year old nexus 5. Maybe you just use your phone to do an odd call or two if you never experienced anything strange?
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- greedo 9y ago
  https://plus.google.com/+YgorCortes/posts/CZ2GhoxgHk3 https://plus.google.com/+YgorCortes/posts/CZ2GhoxgHk3
- Sirened 9y ago
  Do you live somewhere cold? My old devices are perfectly fine indoors but if I step outside in the winter they shut off in a few minutes
benashford 9y ago
I don't think Apple ever applied throttling to devices prior to the iPhone 6. As you say, old 5Ses would shutdown at 20% (or lower), but it was with the iPhone 6 and later where devices would occasionally stop at 50%, so became a much bigger issue. Presumably this was due to the A8 CPU having a wider-range of power consumption (this is a guess, if anyone actually knows why I would be interested to know). For point 2, there is Coconut Battery on MacOS. This is telling me my old iPhone 6 has 90% capacity after 400 odd cycles, which is probably par for the course, but I have no idea if that's bad enough for the performance throttling to kick in or not. Hopefully the new screen is going to be detailed enough to say how much throttling has been applied.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
grav 9y ago
I agree it's a good response, both marketing wise (the compensation in the form of cheaper upgrade) and technically (the improved health visibility). Regarding your concerns: 1) The software update that improved the power management was released for iPhone 6 and later only according to the article. 2) They state "Early in 2018". I think this is a pretty conservative, yet realistic estimate, considering they don't want to risk the user experience.
- turshija 9y ago
  "Early in 2018" might mean beginning of January, because 2017 seems unrealistic for a feature like that, especially since today is the last working day for this year.
dasp 9y ago
You can get some of the battery stats via the (Mac) app coconutBattery: http://www.coconut-flavour.com/coconutbattery/ http://www.coconut-flavour.com/coconutbattery/
- djchen 9y ago
  There are iOS apps to check the battery stats on an iDevice. Example: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/battery-life-check-runtimes/id1080930585?mt=8 https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/battery-life-check-runtimes/... (I have no affiliation with the app, just a satisfied user)
mmjaa 9y ago
I think the outrage is justified, for one particular reason: none of this would have happened if Apple hadn't devolved the feature: user-replaceable batteries. It is Apples' arrogance that painted them into this corner, and nothing less.
- raverbashing 9y ago
  Incorrect I had the same problem with a user-replaceable phone battery It took me a while to realize it was the battery to blame. Yes, replacing it was easier, but you need to identify the problem first
  - codegladiator 9y ago
    What do you mean Incorrect? >> but you need to identify the problem first Apparently apple had identified the problem first and they choose to put non user-replaceable batteries. Plus why does my 4 years old Oppo android phone is not suffering from this battery issue ? Does apple use inferior batteries ?
    - ascagnel_ 9y ago
      Battery life is somewhat random; it's why batteries as a whole are measured with MTTF. You may be lucky enough to have an outlying battery life, or you may have used the phone in such a way that the battery lived longer, or the battery itself may have had a higher MTTF due to it being a larger capacity.
      - codegladiator 9y ago
        >> Battery life is somewhat random Looks pretty deterministic in case of apple. That is until the next phone release.
    - raverbashing 9y ago
      > Plus why does my 4 years old Oppo android phone is not suffering from this battery issue ? Slower processor/smaller overall consumption, possibly. Living in a place without temperature extremes (especially cold) helps
te_chris 9y ago
My iPhone 6 was snappy, then ios 11 came along and now it's not. Also, it's not the battery - I smashed the screen and they replaced the phone in April. It's just classic Apple: programming for the latest CPUs and damn the rest. As an example, siri used to load instantly when I held down the home button, on ios 11 it takes 5 seconds.
- baby 9y ago
  Apple if you're reading this: let us downgrade to iOS 10 please.
  - tqkxzugoaupvwqr 9y ago
    Downgrades are not going to happen. They take pride in saying “Look at this chart, the vast majority of users is running the latest iOS”. That is also why you get annoying update reminders that you can never dismiss permanently, only choose “Remind me later”. This in itself wouldn’t be so bad if Apple didn’t nag-force these updates onto models that are clearly not capable of providing a pleasant experience. On one hand Apple applauds itself for being environmentally friendly, on the other hand they purposefully make millions of devices obsolete with every major iOS release. Hypocrites.
    - PhantomGremlin 9y ago
      Hypocrites. Yeah, I've also ranted about this before. My favorite example is Apple board member Al Gore, who, according to Wikipedia[1]: remained prominent as an author and environmental activist, whose work in climate change activism earned him (jointly with the IPCC) the Nobel Peace Prize in 2007. Yeah, the guy literally wins the Nobel Prize because of his environmental activism, and has been on the Apple board for many years, and yet Apple embraces planned obsolescence. Not hypocrites, fucking hypocrites. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Gore https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Gore
- 1123581321 9y ago
  Siri buffers your speech as soon as you hit the button or say, “Hey Siri.” You don’t need to wait for the screen to load.
howscrewedami 9y ago
I disagree, I think this was a terrible response. They start with the following: "First and foremost, we have never — and would never — do anything to intentionally shorten the life of any Apple product, or degrade the user experience to drive customer upgrades" ... and then proceed to explain why that's exactly what they did. Also, I have no reason to believe getting a new battery will fix my iPhone, especially after they lied so blatantly about planned obsolescence.
- allover 9y ago
  > ... and then proceed to explain why that's exactly what they did. Well they didn't, because "[...] to drive customer upgrades" is the key part they state they are not doing. > lied so blatantly about planned obsolescence. Again, they didn't, they aren't admitting to 'planned obsolescence', only attempting to prevent shutdowns.
  - gldalmaso 9y ago
    Given that there is no scenario where they would literally say that, we have to judge by their actions and not their words. What they said "[wouldn't] degrade the user experience to drive customer upgrades" What they did "degrade the user experience" I can't think of any reason they would do that in good faith instead of simply telling users that their battery is old, this is why your phone is shutting down, please replace it.
  - howscrewedami 9y ago
    > Well they didn't, because "[...] to drive customer upgrades" is the key part they state they are not doing. When you write an entire article explicitly stating that you made your older products slower compared to newer ones, and then at the end you offer a promotion on batteries, you kind of are trying to "drive costumer upgrades". On planned obsolescence: of course they won't admit it. But at the end of the day, they made old iphones slower, and new iphones faster. On purpose. How is this not planned obsolescence?
    - artimaeis 9y ago
baby 9y ago
> I think this is a good response, and I think a lot of the outrage over this issue is overblown No it is not, unless you don't own iPhone 6(S) OR haven't updated iOS.
murjinsee 9y ago
I don't know any good reason for them not to make ast2 and the battery health check available directly, other than to promote sales and additional door swings at their retail locations. I've always hated how opaque iOS is; Android allows wayyyy more insight into data/battery stats, and most Android phones (unless carrier locks them down) allow the user to dial a #code to test most features. Hopefully, Apple will change their tune going forward.

phonon 9y ago

> My old 5S would shut down randomly under 20% without warning. Sometimes it would make it all the way to 1-2%, but most of the time it was between 5-15%. "avoid unexpected shutdowns on iPhone 6, iPhone 6 Plus, iPhone 6s, iPhone 6s Plus, and iPhone SE[...]we recently extended the same support for iPhone 7 and iPhone 7 Plus" They did not apply the change to the 5S.

rajacombinator 9y ago
The change definitely didn’t fully solve the problem in the effected models either. (Can’t comment on if it was partially effective.) Recently had a sudden shutdown from 50%->0% on a 6S. It’s a decent response by Apple, although would have been better if they didn’t require a scandal to reduce their absurd markup on batteries.
- tigershark 9y ago
  My wife just two days ago had a shutdown on a 6 at 45-50%
  - scoot 9y ago
    There's a free battery replacement "quality program" for that issue. [1] Also (unrelated, but will apply to many here), if you have a MacBook or MacBook Pro that the anti-glare coating has started to come off screen (typically around the edges), you can get a new screen for free. [2] [1]: https://www.apple.com/support/iphone6s-unexpectedshutdown/ https://www.apple.com/support/iphone6s-unexpectedshutdown/ [2]: https://www.macrumors.com/2017/11/17/apple-extends-free-staingate-repairs/ https://www.macrumors.com/2017/11/17/apple-extends-free-stai... (Apologies, couldn't find the Apple link.)
    - tigershark 9y ago
      No, the replacement program is for iPhone 6s, not iPhone 6.
      - deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
danbolt 9y ago
I had the same issue with the 5S I'm typing on now, and replacing the battery a few months ago entirely solved that issue for me.

RayVR 9y ago

The outrage doesn't seem overblown to me. For years I knew that my iphones were becoming obsolete not entirely from the passage of time but instead from upgrading the OS. Apple insisted they were not slowing down devices. Now they claim that they started this in iOS 10.2, without notification. My experience has been that upgrading the OS results in degraded performance 100% of the time. Whether intentional or not Apple would not acknowledge the issue. The phone shutting down at X% charge has always started after an OS upgrade.

enraged_camel 9y ago
>>My experience has been that upgrading the OS results in degraded performance 100% of the time. Well yeah, since more features mean slower performance. I saw a noticeable performance decrease when I went from Windows 7 to Windows 8. That doesn't mean Microsoft started throttling the CPU.
- X86BSD 9y ago
  Yeah I don’t understand that at all. Old hardware running new software always degrades performance. Always. Name one instance where that didn’t happen? Newer versions of windows. Newer iOS or Android. On old hardware always runs slower. That’s not deliberate it’s the progression of technology. Hardware is static software is not. You can’t upgrade the hardware in embedded spaces for the most part so you have to accept it can’t run the newer software as fast as a new piece of embedded hardware. It has slower IO, memory, CPU etc. This argument that someone is surprised old hardware is slower with new software is such a disingenuous statement. Either that or you clearly do not understand technology.
- RayVR 9y ago
  I’m not saying I wouldn’t expect some slowdown but Apple essentially forces you to upgrade with no path to downgrade the os. After upgrading my iPhone 6 to iOS 11 I could not launch Lyft, uber took minutes to open, and even the built in message app would have multi-second lag on key press. If you are destroying what was a perfectly fine phone with a software release it should simply not be supported. I would have been content with an old version of iOS that had reasonable performance and did not result in my phone shutting down at 30%, which was a problem introduced with iOS 11.

mtgx 9y ago

It still sounds like a false dilemma to me. I've never had reboots on my Android phones because of battery problems. Maybe Apple just needs to buy better quality batteries? And perhaps higher capacity that are also capable of more charges before they lose too much of their original capacity?

cjensen 9y ago
Upthread at the moment there is a Samsung owner who does have shutdowns from battery problems. Part of it has to do with how the battery has been treated. Wild swings in charge daily cause damage. Hot temperatures cause damage. I'd guess most iPhone owners have little to no damage. But for those who do, slowing the phone and giving a warning is a good alternative to shutting down.
bytecodes 9y ago
The parent post actually mentions this happening on the 5S, a phone which did not get a software update choosing stability over performance. The 6 can slow down and run with a 20% battery while the 5S runs fast and must shut down due to the voltage drop.
tigershark 9y ago
I had plenty of reboot, freezes and boot-cycles on my not even 1 and half year old nexus 5. Maybe you just use your phone to do an odd call or two if you never experienced anything strange?
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
greedo 9y ago
https://plus.google.com/+YgorCortes/posts/CZ2GhoxgHk3 https://plus.google.com/+YgorCortes/posts/CZ2GhoxgHk3
Sirened 9y ago
Do you live somewhere cold? My old devices are perfectly fine indoors but if I step outside in the winter they shut off in a few minutes

benashford 9y ago

I don't think Apple ever applied throttling to devices prior to the iPhone 6. As you say, old 5Ses would shutdown at 20% (or lower), but it was with the iPhone 6 and later where devices would occasionally stop at 50%, so became a much bigger issue. Presumably this was due to the A8 CPU having a wider-range of power consumption (this is a guess, if anyone actually knows why I would be interested to know). For point 2, there is Coconut Battery on MacOS. This is telling me my old iPhone 6 has 90% capacity after 400 odd cycles, which is probably par for the course, but I have no idea if that's bad enough for the performance throttling to kick in or not. Hopefully the new screen is going to be detailed enough to say how much throttling has been applied.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

grav 9y ago

I agree it's a good response, both marketing wise (the compensation in the form of cheaper upgrade) and technically (the improved health visibility). Regarding your concerns: 1) The software update that improved the power management was released for iPhone 6 and later only according to the article. 2) They state "Early in 2018". I think this is a pretty conservative, yet realistic estimate, considering they don't want to risk the user experience.

turshija 9y ago
"Early in 2018" might mean beginning of January, because 2017 seems unrealistic for a feature like that, especially since today is the last working day for this year.

dasp 9y ago

You can get some of the battery stats via the (Mac) app coconutBattery: http://www.coconut-flavour.com/coconutbattery/ http://www.coconut-flavour.com/coconutbattery/

djchen 9y ago
There are iOS apps to check the battery stats on an iDevice. Example: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/battery-life-check-runtimes/id1080930585?mt=8 https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/battery-life-check-runtimes/... (I have no affiliation with the app, just a satisfied user)

mmjaa 9y ago

I think the outrage is justified, for one particular reason: none of this would have happened if Apple hadn't devolved the feature: user-replaceable batteries. It is Apples' arrogance that painted them into this corner, and nothing less.

raverbashing 9y ago
Incorrect I had the same problem with a user-replaceable phone battery It took me a while to realize it was the battery to blame. Yes, replacing it was easier, but you need to identify the problem first
- codegladiator 9y ago
  What do you mean Incorrect? >> but you need to identify the problem first Apparently apple had identified the problem first and they choose to put non user-replaceable batteries. Plus why does my 4 years old Oppo android phone is not suffering from this battery issue ? Does apple use inferior batteries ?
  - ascagnel_ 9y ago
    Battery life is somewhat random; it's why batteries as a whole are measured with MTTF. You may be lucky enough to have an outlying battery life, or you may have used the phone in such a way that the battery lived longer, or the battery itself may have had a higher MTTF due to it being a larger capacity.
    - codegladiator 9y ago
      >> Battery life is somewhat random Looks pretty deterministic in case of apple. That is until the next phone release.
  - raverbashing 9y ago
    > Plus why does my 4 years old Oppo android phone is not suffering from this battery issue ? Slower processor/smaller overall consumption, possibly. Living in a place without temperature extremes (especially cold) helps

te_chris 9y ago

My iPhone 6 was snappy, then ios 11 came along and now it's not. Also, it's not the battery - I smashed the screen and they replaced the phone in April. It's just classic Apple: programming for the latest CPUs and damn the rest. As an example, siri used to load instantly when I held down the home button, on ios 11 it takes 5 seconds.

baby 9y ago
Apple if you're reading this: let us downgrade to iOS 10 please.
- tqkxzugoaupvwqr 9y ago
  Downgrades are not going to happen. They take pride in saying “Look at this chart, the vast majority of users is running the latest iOS”. That is also why you get annoying update reminders that you can never dismiss permanently, only choose “Remind me later”. This in itself wouldn’t be so bad if Apple didn’t nag-force these updates onto models that are clearly not capable of providing a pleasant experience. On one hand Apple applauds itself for being environmentally friendly, on the other hand they purposefully make millions of devices obsolete with every major iOS release. Hypocrites.
  - PhantomGremlin 9y ago
    Hypocrites. Yeah, I've also ranted about this before. My favorite example is Apple board member Al Gore, who, according to Wikipedia[1]: remained prominent as an author and environmental activist, whose work in climate change activism earned him (jointly with the IPCC) the Nobel Peace Prize in 2007. Yeah, the guy literally wins the Nobel Prize because of his environmental activism, and has been on the Apple board for many years, and yet Apple embraces planned obsolescence. Not hypocrites, fucking hypocrites. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Gore https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Gore
1123581321 9y ago
Siri buffers your speech as soon as you hit the button or say, “Hey Siri.” You don’t need to wait for the screen to load.

howscrewedami 9y ago

I disagree, I think this was a terrible response. They start with the following: "First and foremost, we have never — and would never — do anything to intentionally shorten the life of any Apple product, or degrade the user experience to drive customer upgrades" ... and then proceed to explain why that's exactly what they did. Also, I have no reason to believe getting a new battery will fix my iPhone, especially after they lied so blatantly about planned obsolescence.

allover 9y ago
> ... and then proceed to explain why that's exactly what they did. Well they didn't, because "[...] to drive customer upgrades" is the key part they state they are not doing. > lied so blatantly about planned obsolescence. Again, they didn't, they aren't admitting to 'planned obsolescence', only attempting to prevent shutdowns.
- gldalmaso 9y ago
  Given that there is no scenario where they would literally say that, we have to judge by their actions and not their words. What they said "[wouldn't] degrade the user experience to drive customer upgrades" What they did "degrade the user experience" I can't think of any reason they would do that in good faith instead of simply telling users that their battery is old, this is why your phone is shutting down, please replace it.
- howscrewedami 9y ago
  > Well they didn't, because "[...] to drive customer upgrades" is the key part they state they are not doing. When you write an entire article explicitly stating that you made your older products slower compared to newer ones, and then at the end you offer a promotion on batteries, you kind of are trying to "drive costumer upgrades". On planned obsolescence: of course they won't admit it. But at the end of the day, they made old iphones slower, and new iphones faster. On purpose. How is this not planned obsolescence?
  - artimaeis 9y ago

baby 9y ago

> I think this is a good response, and I think a lot of the outrage over this issue is overblown No it is not, unless you don't own iPhone 6(S) OR haven't updated iOS.

murjinsee 9y ago

I don't know any good reason for them not to make ast2 and the battery health check available directly, other than to promote sales and additional door swings at their retail locations. I've always hated how opaque iOS is; Android allows wayyyy more insight into data/battery stats, and most Android phones (unless carrier locks them down) allow the user to dial a #code to test most features. Hopefully, Apple will change their tune going forward.