10 ms·

Very revealing discussion. Most of the participants just argue about Amazon vs. Google here, some fear surveillance, some consider the devices useless, a few wa

Very revealing discussion. Most of the participants just argue about Amazon vs. Google here, some fear surveillance, some consider the devices useless, a few want to understand if the HN crowd finds it useful. This is something I notice here on HN in product-related discussions more and more: people just say what THEY think about product X (typically a negative opinion or complaint), rather being creative, constructive or inquisitive. Why do you think millions of people bought an Echo Dot or a Google Home? Not from YOUR perspective, but from the perspective of millions of people that seem to see value in this product?

bamboozled 9y ago
Might I suggest some simple reasons for the increase in sales for the Dot? * Novelty value, it's a fun idea. It looks cool to buy an "edgy" product for your nephew / niece etc. * The marketing team worked hard to direct prime customers to buy one for their family / friends as gifts. * People are out of ideas and it's something new, novel and affordable. I really don't think people put much thought into presents in general, if there is something new, kind of affordable and in your face, it's a given you're going to buy it.
- notahacker 9y ago
  The aggressive price cuts in competition with Google also put it at the perfect price for "novelty electronic good that may or may not be useful" (We bought one for a pretty tech savvy 89 year old who we thought might actually get practical benefits from IoT plugs as well as enjoy the novelty value of something that interacts vaguely like a human since he doesn't go out so much these days. But that's something of an edge case)
  - paulie_a 9y ago
    I bought three Google homes largely because of the price cuts, and after showing my mom over the holiday she decided to but one. She even commented on the novelty but had liked it so far
  - wmeredith 9y ago
    > But that's something of an edge case The Baby Boomers are retiring in droves right now. It's becoming less and less so (in the USA).
    - lev99 9y ago
      I have retired baby boomers for parents. I can confirm that they are both somewhat tech savvy and enjoy the dot.
- Steeeve 9y ago
  I think this is right. ~$30 for a nifty piece of technology makes a great no-brainer gift. It's in the ballpark price range of secret santas and gift exchanges. Throw in that it was mentioned in all the black friday deal discussions and it was marketed to anyone visiting amazon.com for holiday shopping... well, they were going to push units regardless.
- ghaff 9y ago
  That sounds about right--plus the price point as others have mentioned; it's the price of a halfway decent sweater. It's the sort of thing that, for most people, will be appreciated if they don't have one and they can often use another if they do.
- sigi45 9y ago
  Easy to get in and already usefull. My wife didn't like the idea of having a microphone in our rooms, now she asked me if i don't want to buy another one. And yeah it is only used for timer, reminder, light on/off and music. I love it too.
  - foobarian 9y ago
    I didn't like the idea of my 4 year old having an easy way out of learning to read/write. I disable all voice recognition on our tablets/phones too. Next birthday it will be C64 time. :-) (Edit P.S.) Don't get me started on Unix REPLs suitable for young kids. A simple for loop still reads best in BASIC.
    - steveeq1 9y ago
      Or Scratch.
  - slantyyz 9y ago
    My wife rolled her eyes when I told her I pre-ordered an Echo Dot. When she actually saw it in action and found out I had only paid $50CAD for one, she told me to get another one. I've only had Echo since Dec 5, but we're both becoming dependent on its convenience.
seanwilson 9y ago
> Why do you think millions of people bought an Echo Dot or a Google Home? Not from YOUR perspective, but from the perspective of millions of people that seem to see value in this product? I enjoy the discussions here but the reaction of this niche audience is not a good predictor of how the average person will act. Most people don't understand how internet ads work or care that much about the privacy of mundane activities. Try asking some non-technical friends how Google or Facebook make money and then once you explain how ask if they care. People buy these products because they're useful. They don't know about or care what the vocal minority that know about tech say.
- konceptz 9y ago
  I’m reading these comments particularly for the “niche audience” reactions. It’s one of my many valued information gathering destinations on the road to forming an opinion.
- faitswulff 9y ago
  > People buy these products because they're useful My dad takes weeks or months to learn how to use any new GUI. He's used automated phone systems for his whole life, though, and a voice-driven interface would be much easier for him. It seems like HNers find it hard to believe that people like my dad exist, for some reason.
  - walterbell 9y ago
    What isn't obvious at first look/listen: there is no user-driven exploratory discovery for voice-activated devices. You must memorize the exact command needed for a particular "skill". Some words may be selectable (e.g. Echo vs Alexa). If an elderly person has trouble remembering dozens of voice commands, only a tiny subset of the device's functions can be used.
    - amclennon 9y ago
      > only a tiny subset of the device's functions can be used If that small subset is sufficiently useful to that particular individual, I don't think it really matters. The average person only uses a small subset of Microsoft Word for example.
touristtam 9y ago
General public has probably been sold on the potential & novelty of the device, without realizing how little there is to it (feature wise). It feels like it is similar to VR and personal drones; it sounds exiting, but it isn't that practical in everyday setting to replace other activities, and setting it up can feel tedious.
- baby 9y ago
  wait, VR is freaking awesome, please don't put it in the same box.
  - ekianjo 9y ago
    > VR is freaking awesome For what uses? I've been trying VR on multiple occasions, I still don't see much use for it. Even most VR games suck completely.
    - Namrog84 9y ago
      Not all new technologies hit the ground running. Not that vr is necessarily new at this point. Look at early video games versus now. Look at early office home software versus now. These things have come a long way in 20-50 years. Yes, many vr games are still little more than tech prototypes and the hardware still needs improvement. But if you haven't used a decent brand system and can't appreciate how much potential it has. I don't know what to say to that. You shouldn't take vr just at face value for being awesome but also some of the potential it has in next few years. That is what's freaking awesome to me(and I'm not op)
      - ekianjo 9y ago
        > some of the potential it has in next few years To be honest we've been told about the potential for VR for the past 3 or 4 years at least and I still can't see any killer app to justify the investment. Yeah, it's fun for cockpit games and simulations in general, but... there's not many games "made for VR" that are really interesting. Maybe business applications will be more appealing in the end?
afpx 9y ago
None of my closest 100 friends and family bought either product, which is very strange given our technology backgrounds and the products’ apparent popularity. A good friend who works in IoT sort of considered it, but then ultimately became unmotivated because she doesn’t yet see the usefulness of consumer IoT. My guess is that most buyers are much younger than me. Perhaps they seek to be early adopters like I once did. But, values must have also changed. For example, it wasn’t very long ago that the Xbox Kinect was released and many people freaked out by having a corporation freely listen to what they say.
- b4lancesh33t 9y ago
  > None of my closest 100 friends and family bought either product How do you know that?
  - afpx 9y ago
    Because I’m close to them. Maybe 100 is a slight overestimate. But, it isn’t all that many, is it? There are 30 people just within 0.5 miles that I visit regularly. Edit: I was totally wrong. I did an informal survey, and several people said they did have them. I just never saw them use them. Just seeing what I want to see ...
    - deleted 9y ago
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- criddell 9y ago
  We bought our first Echo earlier this year and when we went through the configuration were very surprised to see how many of our friends and relatives popped up as contacts for the voice-call feature. None of these people are under 40.
- echosmith 9y ago
  Are you sure none of those 100 were gifted one?
toyg 9y ago
> Why do you think millions of people bought an Echo Dot or a Google Home? Duh, because this has been the holy grail of personal computers since forever: you ask and computers do, no questions asked, no training, nothing. It's having servants without the pesky societal thing. In any scifi story ever there is something like that. It's the first time it really feels like AI dreams are getting real. Interpreting speech is something so human that a computer doing it feels magical; and it removes all barriers to interacting with computers, which is a real problem that most people still have. Of course regular humans (i.e. not geeks) love this technological leap. The technology is here to stay, one way or another, that's obvious. But problem-solving types of people (i.e. geeks) are bound to see the issues, the kinks, that can ruin the dream. For me, the privacy implications are still a big obstacle; the world is still full of totalitarian states, even supposedly "democratic" states can barely survive periodic bouts of everyday fascism. This sort of tech is a totalitarian wet dream. We need better protections, in law as well as in tech, or we'll end up under constant STASI-like surveillance in our kitchens.
- throwaway9980 9y ago
  Servants? Alexa, wash the dishes! Alexa, change my kid’s diaper! Alexa, pickup my kid from school! Alexa, vacuum the living room! Alexa, take out the trash! She can’t help me with any of that. I guess everyday people need to have lower barriers to interacting with computers, but I’m good. I like to read HN the way I would have read the newspaper. I listen to some podcasts the way I would have listened to the radio. Beyond that I don’t have much non-professional use for computers.
  - francisofascii 9y ago
    Actually, there are a few robotic vacuums that can be controlled with Alexa.
    - EADGBE 9y ago
      When I was reviewing robotic vacuums for potential purchase I was disappointed to understand that most of these (if not all of these) are for the "maintenance" use of cleaning a floor. By that I mean, they will run a rather random route, and may or may not get to that spot on the rug you'd rather them clean, which would harken the "Alexa, clean the rug". These things, although still very cool, seem kinda useless for anything other than once-a-day scheduled routines for keeping dirt, hair, and other messes down to a minimum. Ironically each commercial will show the robot cleaning up a spilled mess with easy, none can actually "see" these messes. But you know, marketing.
2-4-Flinching 9y ago
Simple, they have hit a price range that the average person feels they can spend and not feel to bad about wasting money later if it sits on the shelf. You would probably need to edit your question to "Why do you think millions of people bought an [Amazon] Echo Dot or a Google Home [Mini]" The evidence is clear both are the lowest costing home assistant device for their respective lines. At $30 on sales this season it could make it even into many gift swaps with that budget. Just as a few years ago the Firestick and Chromecast did.
- gr3yh47 9y ago
  >Simple, they have hit a price range that the average person feels they can spend and not feel to bad about wasting money later if it sits on the shelf. I would add... 'and the vast majority of americans dont understand why they should care about government surveillance and how that relates to installing an internet-connected microphone in their home' unfortunately most of us in the hn crowd probably feel like there is tons of awareness about surveillance right now, but my guess is that feeling is the result of filter bubbles.
  - HelloMcFly 9y ago
    I care about government surveillance and am not really into IoT in general, but I have an Echo. I imagine some may have a difficult time reconciling those two things, but they are not in conflict for me.
  - 2-4-Flinching 9y ago
    You already have an internet connected microphones in your house. Its your computer, your chromecast or firestick, your smartphone has three, your laptop, your smart tv, anything IOT, heck, I once connected a speaker system to become a mic at a friends house and broadcast it over a SRD. It maybe that they don't understand but many "in the know" seems pretty hypocritical when they examined there own self. I know this isn't going to be a popular opinion on HN. When we start to talk about government surveillance I think people go over board and start looking at IOT devices over aggressively. It not hard to bug a house, people are usually gone for at least 8 hours a day on weekdays. If I was doing an ops, it be easier to break into their Wi-Fi and infect a device that way or break into their house and just plant a bug or two rather than wait and get a warrant for their data from Google or Amazon which is time consuming and filled with paper pushing, plus the added fact that Google and Amazon have both pushed back in recent years in court battles. When it comes to "Big Brother" you are fighting a rather big monster with zero days, money and time on its side. Even as someone with enterprise grade networking equipment in his house and a security background, I just know its a time game if you fighting the "MAN". I had a friend that was super paranoid. Enterprise gear, no IOT, custom linux router with live patching, some pretty cool stuff. Asked me to pentest him. A door left unlocked (planned to use a bump key) by his wife before leaving the house and a PoisonTap attack on a windows computer and he was pawned. GAME OVER.
ataturk 9y ago
Whatever the utility, there are certain lines that I draw with my privacy and having an open mic anywhere in my house is one of those lines. It's foolish. There are millions upon millions of foolish people out there. Whether or not you care who hears you, whether or not anyone is listening, you can't argue it is benign technology. Google and Amazon are most certainly listening because it's what they do. There are no assurances they can give that would be enough. The data is one subpoena away from being used against you anytime.
ZenoArrow 9y ago
> "Why do you think millions of people bought an Echo Dot or a Google Home? Not from YOUR perspective, but from the perspective of millions of people that seem to see value in this product?" I have no problem with the product category Echo Dot and Google Home sit in, and can see why they make interesting gifts, my only issue is with the surveillance aspects of these devices. Why do I think people bought them regardless of this issue? I'd suggest either surveillance wasn't forefront in their minds, or it doesn't bother them that much. What's interesting to me is to compare these devices to Google Glass. There was a huge backlash about Google Glass as it was obvious people were being recorded without their consent. You had people wearing the devices getting called glassholes, and the devices being banned from certain venues. Compare that to the Echo Dot. The level of unwarranted surveillance with Google Glass and Echo Dot is pretty much the same, but because one is less visible than the other it doesn't get the same level of backlash. Is there something about audio surveillance which makes it more socially acceptable than video surveillance? If a future version of Amazon Echo came with a camera that watched your actions, would that get people to see the downsides of these devices? I'm not sure.
- amrrs 9y ago
  You absolutely nailed it. I think it has to do with human psychology. Anything similar to spectacle is easily connected to being watched (literally) while even the amount of (useful) data collected by an always on microphone could relativity high. Maybe for a privacy advocate, the only possible way to bring awareness as equivalent as is to make people understand and believe that it sits and is always listening during day and night (unlike the glass which is on only when worn)
  - illumin8 9y ago
    No, he didn't. How do you justify carrying a smartphone with an always listening microphone into shared public spaces (many listen for wake words now), but get hung up on having a microphone in your private residence? Google has a horrific track record on privacy, but Amazon knows who their customers are, and would never do anything to violate their trust. With Amazon, you're the customer, with Google, you're the product.
jsz0 9y ago
> Why do you think millions of people bought an Echo Dot or a Google Home? Probably because they emulate human conversation well enough to make people feel less lonely.
- JulianRaphael 9y ago
  Unfortunately, for a large group of people this seems to be true. When I see these products, I often remember a talk of a Buddhist teacher titled "Loneliness is the ill being of our time." [1] I do believe that one of the next waves of technological innovations will evolve exactly around this topic: how can we make people feel less lonely? [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZ1x9bzl2Ww https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZ1x9bzl2Ww
Kiro 9y ago
I use HN comments as a predictor of future events, whether it be product trends or Bitcoin prices. Just take whatever is posted here and reverse it.
- 18pfsmt 9y ago
  >Just take whatever is posted here and reverse it. Considering the myriad of viewpoints shown on HN, I don't think that is a reasonable take. I first learned about Bitcoin on HN in 2010, long before it became well-known. Also, when Apple announced the Homepod, the financial press was constantly comparing it to Amazon Echo, but HN knew it made more sense to compare it to Sonos. Not every comment on HN is spot-on, to be sure, but the signal-to-noise here is better than 99.9% of the web.
  - JulianRaphael 9y ago
    I fully agree that the signal-to-noise ratio on HN is better than elsewhere on the web, which is why I love coming here. HN shines when people share their sharp thinking, creativity and ability to reflect and adjust their strong, factually based opinions. That is exactly what led me to post my comment, because I've noticed that this community has grown in the past few years and with the growth the quality of discussions (sometimes) has become less informative and occasionally resembles a "typical" comment section on the internet. I realised that I can influence this trend by participating more actively in the discussions. Hence, my resolution for 2018 is to more often post questions, rather than arguments to hopefully drive forward our collective creativity and intelligence. HN is a truly special place on the web!
- consz 9y ago
  People on HN panned the hell out of Juicero, and they were right on the money. I think HN comments are probably mean zero at predicting product trends.
slantyyz 9y ago
I can tell you why I chose the Echo. I'm probably significantly older than the mean at HN, and I'm starting to forget stuff. My wife and I find the shopping list and reminders very handy compared to using the phone. I also have underutilized smart home devices (wemo, harmony hub, etc) and Echo just got introduced in Canada at a lower price. I read that Echo has slightly better smart home compatibility than Home, so I decided to go with Echo. My friends with the Home seem equally happy with their devices as I am. I use Echo to turn on groups of lights by voice. It's great. My main gripe with the Echo is that the skills are region locked. There are tons of skills that are only English (US) and not available for English (Canada) yet. I'm lucky that the two skills I'm waiting for aren't that important to me. I get that there are privacy concerns, but I ended up opting convenience and functional benefit over them. I kinda see my Echo as "big brother[1] with benefits". [1] big sister might be more accurate, given that we only have the option of a female voice with Echo
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throwaway7645 9y ago
Perfect example is my mother in law bought one for her husband. They then have to have us set it up and after asking it a knock knock joke or two end up hating it. I've observed that a lot of the over 50 crowd get the weather + news from the TV, while the technologically savy use the internet or a phone app already. Sure Alexa can do it, but it honestly isn't much more convenient than your phone which is easier to glance at visual data than listen for a couple of minutes as Alexa reads it off. There is a cool list of Easter eggs someone posted on Reddit like asking her to "beam me up", "set phasers to stun", or "Alexa I am your father". It has a neat SciFi choose your own adventure game, but they thought that was stupid. One thing that bothered me was Alexa couldn't say who made her other than "Amazon". The AIM chatbot smarterchild could even spit out a list. I wanted to hear a list of developers or something funny like the "marketing division of the Sirius Cybernetics Corporation" (from hitchikers guide to the galaxy).
659087 9y ago
> Why do you think millions of people bought an Echo Dot or a Google Home? Not from YOUR perspective, but from the perspective of millions of people that seem to see value in this product? Because it was the "hot new thing". Of the many "non-technical" people I know who foolishly put these things in their homes over the past couple years, all but a few have unplugged them and thrown them in a closet already. It was a novelty at first, but one they quickly realized didn't offer much or any advantage over what they could already do with their phones - and wasn't worth the added surveillance. My sister in particular was creeped out by how often it seemed to activate without any "wake words" being said. Now that Amazon made them cheap enough to be stocking stuffers even for lower income families in order to expand their mass surveillance network, a whole new portion of society will get to go through the same process. I think anyone who puts these in their home should be required to have some kind of sign on their door to let anyone who enters know that "by entering this home, you agree to Amazon/Google's privacy policy".
usrusr 9y ago
Buying decisions for gifts between adults who constantly buy stuff for themselves are governed by a very special set of rules. It can't be something they already have. It can't be something from a special interest hobby field, where enthusiasts identify deeply with every single related purchase decision. It can't be a commodity they would routinely buy anyways, that'd be like giving money. This leaves us with purely sacrificial gifts ("to show you that I care, I have, through an elaborate mechanism too complicated not only to explain but also to understand, paid some poor kid to spend their life burrowing through dirt to find this nice stone which I now present to you"), things you know they would have bought, but didn't like the price and, most importantly, things they might like but they don't know it yet. Echo dot and the like must be huge holiday sellers because many people who would never but one might still enjoy then, and the whole concept is sufficiently new that even a blind guess yields an acceptable risk in "do they already have one?". And then there is of course the onegenerational aspect, a great many senior citizens who never got fully accustomed to digital screen media have children or grandchildren who can't think of much besides gadgets, perfect match.
- GuiA 9y ago
  So, in other words, "gadgets". Kitchen gadgets (rather than tech gadgets) are also a popular choice for that kind of gift. There are 2 kinds of gifts I like to give that aren't "purely sacrificial gifts": either a book I think the recipient will enjoy (this could be a graphic novel or art book if they aren't much of a reader), or a framed print of a portrait of their kid/partner/themselves with friends/etc. (I do large format film photography and make my own prints, so obviously the latter option is not a possibility for everyone. Still, books are great)
- api 9y ago
  Give the gift of pervasive surveillance!
Spooky23 9y ago
It’s a product with a heavy marketing push, that’s the why. In terms of the response to these devices... they are tough devices in that they do not stand alone, and their usefulness is really defined by who the user is. I think what you’re reading here is a coming to grips with it. Nobody really knows what these things are good for yet... but someone’s teenager likes to listen to music with it and someone’s grandma likes to control the lights. The same discussions were had about the “information superhighway” in 1997 :)
- mcny 9y ago
  > It’s a product with a heavy marketing push, that’s the why. I absolutely agree. They also fixed the most glaring problem of the Fire Phone -- the cost. As I write this, the echo dot is $30 [screenshot]. Over 60% of US households apparently has Amazon prime. This is a good purchase for them I think. [screenshot] https://screenshots.firefoxusercontent.com/images/a164594d-5b86-4bbd-86e2-3b5876808c0d.jpg https://screenshots.firefoxusercontent.com/images/a164594d-5...
Touche 9y ago
> This is something I notice here on HN in product-related discussions more and more: people just say what THEY think about product X (typically a negative opinion or complaint), rather being creative, constructive or inquisitive. I think that's always been true, if anything it might have gotten a little better. I remember back in the early smartphone-wars days any article about the iPhone would illicit numerous "iPhone is too locked down" comments and any Android article would illicit numerous "The UI is bad" comments. Somewhat related, the most influencial Paul Graham article for me is http://www.paulgraham.com/identity.html http://www.paulgraham.com/identity.html. I try (and often fail) to apply this when responding to articles.
jimmaswell 9y ago
I truly don't understand how so many people could buy something that literally does nothing their phone couldn't already do. Maybe it was marketing.
- kenjackson 9y ago
  The same reason people bought smartphones that literally did nothing their laptop couldn't do. Ease of use. I can turn on my entertainment system or turn off my lights with my phone, but its a lot easier to just say it, versus getting my phone out of my pocket, turning it on, finding the app, launching the app, going to the screen to turn on the thingie, and then pressing the right button.
  - jimmaswell 9y ago
    If this is such a selling point then why is there no widespread adoption of this level of voice control on smart phones? It's certainly technically doable.
    - kenjackson 9y ago
      If cell phones could do this w/o me having to get it out of my pocket/purse, then I think it would catch on. Also, Siri at least, seems to have very little extensibility (or at least no one is using it).
- Digory 9y ago
  Not really. Many people have older phones, with batteries that fade, so they don't enable auto-listening. Neither iPhone nor Google tap into Prime music via voice, which is a service most pay for, over Apple music or Play. To play music from my phone right now, I have to swipe to Bluetooth, connect to the speaker, wait for the bloop, switch to my music app, and play. It connects automatically in my car, but not my kitchen, and even in the car, I have to hunt down overcast to play podcasts. In almost every case, it's faster and easier to shout out to Alexa in my kitchen.
e40 9y ago
Why do you think millions of people bought an Echo Dot or a Google Home? In general, I think people have a lot of tendencies to follow the crowd, or follow what they perceive as cool. I also don't think people think about the ramifications of what it might mean for the future (and surveillance). This leads into a much bigger conversation about people's view of the future. I feel very few (percentage wise) are thinking about the next generation. There was a great interview with Jane Goodall on Startalk. She latched onto this, as well. The whole climate change debate is so strange to me. People seem to get angry that scientists say it is caused by humans. To me, that doesn't matter at all. We are clearly warming and we should take measures to reverse it, no matter what the cause. As Goodall said, we don't look at decisions in our time and ask: is this good for future generations? That is rarely part of the conversation (it might be introduced, but it's quickly swamped by other things).
zeep 9y ago
One reason is probably because it is almost always shown on the homepage in a large banner-style ad ...
michaelbuckbee 9y ago
The Echo Dot feels like a device from the future to most people outside of our bubble. I have a 76 year old auntie. After setting it up and explaining to her how to use it, she was able to request that Alexa play her favorite pop song from when she was a teenager and it worked. It worked despite: - This was her first time using it and she's wildly not a computer person - Her having a thick tagalog accent - It was some fairly obscure song that hasn't been played on the radio for forever She's blown away and assumes that it costs $1000s of dollars, because nothing else works like this so it must be horrendously expensive, but no it costs about what a decent alarm clock/radio costs. Similarly, my young kids love it as well b/c they can request music, etc. While the primary use in our house is music, a close second would be timers+alarms (for cooking, leaving the house, taking turns, waking up, etc.) they're so quick and easy to set up.
- bertil 9y ago
  > taking turns Anecdotic question but can the Echo run a rotation, like a chore wheel?
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bamboozled 9y ago

Might I suggest some simple reasons for the increase in sales for the Dot? * Novelty value, it's a fun idea. It looks cool to buy an "edgy" product for your nephew / niece etc. * The marketing team worked hard to direct prime customers to buy one for their family / friends as gifts. * People are out of ideas and it's something new, novel and affordable. I really don't think people put much thought into presents in general, if there is something new, kind of affordable and in your face, it's a given you're going to buy it.

notahacker 9y ago
The aggressive price cuts in competition with Google also put it at the perfect price for "novelty electronic good that may or may not be useful" (We bought one for a pretty tech savvy 89 year old who we thought might actually get practical benefits from IoT plugs as well as enjoy the novelty value of something that interacts vaguely like a human since he doesn't go out so much these days. But that's something of an edge case)
- paulie_a 9y ago
  I bought three Google homes largely because of the price cuts, and after showing my mom over the holiday she decided to but one. She even commented on the novelty but had liked it so far
- wmeredith 9y ago
  > But that's something of an edge case The Baby Boomers are retiring in droves right now. It's becoming less and less so (in the USA).
  - lev99 9y ago
    I have retired baby boomers for parents. I can confirm that they are both somewhat tech savvy and enjoy the dot.
Steeeve 9y ago
I think this is right. ~$30 for a nifty piece of technology makes a great no-brainer gift. It's in the ballpark price range of secret santas and gift exchanges. Throw in that it was mentioned in all the black friday deal discussions and it was marketed to anyone visiting amazon.com for holiday shopping... well, they were going to push units regardless.
ghaff 9y ago
That sounds about right--plus the price point as others have mentioned; it's the price of a halfway decent sweater. It's the sort of thing that, for most people, will be appreciated if they don't have one and they can often use another if they do.
sigi45 9y ago
Easy to get in and already usefull. My wife didn't like the idea of having a microphone in our rooms, now she asked me if i don't want to buy another one. And yeah it is only used for timer, reminder, light on/off and music. I love it too.
- foobarian 9y ago
  I didn't like the idea of my 4 year old having an easy way out of learning to read/write. I disable all voice recognition on our tablets/phones too. Next birthday it will be C64 time. :-) (Edit P.S.) Don't get me started on Unix REPLs suitable for young kids. A simple for loop still reads best in BASIC.
  - steveeq1 9y ago
    Or Scratch.
- slantyyz 9y ago
  My wife rolled her eyes when I told her I pre-ordered an Echo Dot. When she actually saw it in action and found out I had only paid $50CAD for one, she told me to get another one. I've only had Echo since Dec 5, but we're both becoming dependent on its convenience.

seanwilson 9y ago

> Why do you think millions of people bought an Echo Dot or a Google Home? Not from YOUR perspective, but from the perspective of millions of people that seem to see value in this product? I enjoy the discussions here but the reaction of this niche audience is not a good predictor of how the average person will act. Most people don't understand how internet ads work or care that much about the privacy of mundane activities. Try asking some non-technical friends how Google or Facebook make money and then once you explain how ask if they care. People buy these products because they're useful. They don't know about or care what the vocal minority that know about tech say.

konceptz 9y ago
I’m reading these comments particularly for the “niche audience” reactions. It’s one of my many valued information gathering destinations on the road to forming an opinion.
faitswulff 9y ago
> People buy these products because they're useful My dad takes weeks or months to learn how to use any new GUI. He's used automated phone systems for his whole life, though, and a voice-driven interface would be much easier for him. It seems like HNers find it hard to believe that people like my dad exist, for some reason.
- walterbell 9y ago
  What isn't obvious at first look/listen: there is no user-driven exploratory discovery for voice-activated devices. You must memorize the exact command needed for a particular "skill". Some words may be selectable (e.g. Echo vs Alexa). If an elderly person has trouble remembering dozens of voice commands, only a tiny subset of the device's functions can be used.
  - amclennon 9y ago
    > only a tiny subset of the device's functions can be used If that small subset is sufficiently useful to that particular individual, I don't think it really matters. The average person only uses a small subset of Microsoft Word for example.

touristtam 9y ago

General public has probably been sold on the potential & novelty of the device, without realizing how little there is to it (feature wise). It feels like it is similar to VR and personal drones; it sounds exiting, but it isn't that practical in everyday setting to replace other activities, and setting it up can feel tedious.

baby 9y ago
wait, VR is freaking awesome, please don't put it in the same box.
- ekianjo 9y ago
  > VR is freaking awesome For what uses? I've been trying VR on multiple occasions, I still don't see much use for it. Even most VR games suck completely.
  - Namrog84 9y ago
    Not all new technologies hit the ground running. Not that vr is necessarily new at this point. Look at early video games versus now. Look at early office home software versus now. These things have come a long way in 20-50 years. Yes, many vr games are still little more than tech prototypes and the hardware still needs improvement. But if you haven't used a decent brand system and can't appreciate how much potential it has. I don't know what to say to that. You shouldn't take vr just at face value for being awesome but also some of the potential it has in next few years. That is what's freaking awesome to me(and I'm not op)
    - ekianjo 9y ago
      > some of the potential it has in next few years To be honest we've been told about the potential for VR for the past 3 or 4 years at least and I still can't see any killer app to justify the investment. Yeah, it's fun for cockpit games and simulations in general, but... there's not many games "made for VR" that are really interesting. Maybe business applications will be more appealing in the end?

afpx 9y ago

None of my closest 100 friends and family bought either product, which is very strange given our technology backgrounds and the products’ apparent popularity. A good friend who works in IoT sort of considered it, but then ultimately became unmotivated because she doesn’t yet see the usefulness of consumer IoT. My guess is that most buyers are much younger than me. Perhaps they seek to be early adopters like I once did. But, values must have also changed. For example, it wasn’t very long ago that the Xbox Kinect was released and many people freaked out by having a corporation freely listen to what they say.

b4lancesh33t 9y ago
> None of my closest 100 friends and family bought either product How do you know that?
- afpx 9y ago
  Because I’m close to them. Maybe 100 is a slight overestimate. But, it isn’t all that many, is it? There are 30 people just within 0.5 miles that I visit regularly. Edit: I was totally wrong. I did an informal survey, and several people said they did have them. I just never saw them use them. Just seeing what I want to see ...
  - deleted 9y ago
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criddell 9y ago
We bought our first Echo earlier this year and when we went through the configuration were very surprised to see how many of our friends and relatives popped up as contacts for the voice-call feature. None of these people are under 40.
echosmith 9y ago
Are you sure none of those 100 were gifted one?

toyg 9y ago

> Why do you think millions of people bought an Echo Dot or a Google Home? Duh, because this has been the holy grail of personal computers since forever: you ask and computers do, no questions asked, no training, nothing. It's having servants without the pesky societal thing. In any scifi story ever there is something like that. It's the first time it really feels like AI dreams are getting real. Interpreting speech is something so human that a computer doing it feels magical; and it removes all barriers to interacting with computers, which is a real problem that most people still have. Of course regular humans (i.e. not geeks) love this technological leap. The technology is here to stay, one way or another, that's obvious. But problem-solving types of people (i.e. geeks) are bound to see the issues, the kinks, that can ruin the dream. For me, the privacy implications are still a big obstacle; the world is still full of totalitarian states, even supposedly "democratic" states can barely survive periodic bouts of everyday fascism. This sort of tech is a totalitarian wet dream. We need better protections, in law as well as in tech, or we'll end up under constant STASI-like surveillance in our kitchens.

throwaway9980 9y ago
Servants? Alexa, wash the dishes! Alexa, change my kid’s diaper! Alexa, pickup my kid from school! Alexa, vacuum the living room! Alexa, take out the trash! She can’t help me with any of that. I guess everyday people need to have lower barriers to interacting with computers, but I’m good. I like to read HN the way I would have read the newspaper. I listen to some podcasts the way I would have listened to the radio. Beyond that I don’t have much non-professional use for computers.
- francisofascii 9y ago
  Actually, there are a few robotic vacuums that can be controlled with Alexa.
  - EADGBE 9y ago
    When I was reviewing robotic vacuums for potential purchase I was disappointed to understand that most of these (if not all of these) are for the "maintenance" use of cleaning a floor. By that I mean, they will run a rather random route, and may or may not get to that spot on the rug you'd rather them clean, which would harken the "Alexa, clean the rug". These things, although still very cool, seem kinda useless for anything other than once-a-day scheduled routines for keeping dirt, hair, and other messes down to a minimum. Ironically each commercial will show the robot cleaning up a spilled mess with easy, none can actually "see" these messes. But you know, marketing.

2-4-Flinching 9y ago

Simple, they have hit a price range that the average person feels they can spend and not feel to bad about wasting money later if it sits on the shelf. You would probably need to edit your question to "Why do you think millions of people bought an [Amazon] Echo Dot or a Google Home [Mini]" The evidence is clear both are the lowest costing home assistant device for their respective lines. At $30 on sales this season it could make it even into many gift swaps with that budget. Just as a few years ago the Firestick and Chromecast did.

gr3yh47 9y ago
>Simple, they have hit a price range that the average person feels they can spend and not feel to bad about wasting money later if it sits on the shelf. I would add... 'and the vast majority of americans dont understand why they should care about government surveillance and how that relates to installing an internet-connected microphone in their home' unfortunately most of us in the hn crowd probably feel like there is tons of awareness about surveillance right now, but my guess is that feeling is the result of filter bubbles.
- HelloMcFly 9y ago
  I care about government surveillance and am not really into IoT in general, but I have an Echo. I imagine some may have a difficult time reconciling those two things, but they are not in conflict for me.
- 2-4-Flinching 9y ago
  You already have an internet connected microphones in your house. Its your computer, your chromecast or firestick, your smartphone has three, your laptop, your smart tv, anything IOT, heck, I once connected a speaker system to become a mic at a friends house and broadcast it over a SRD. It maybe that they don't understand but many "in the know" seems pretty hypocritical when they examined there own self. I know this isn't going to be a popular opinion on HN. When we start to talk about government surveillance I think people go over board and start looking at IOT devices over aggressively. It not hard to bug a house, people are usually gone for at least 8 hours a day on weekdays. If I was doing an ops, it be easier to break into their Wi-Fi and infect a device that way or break into their house and just plant a bug or two rather than wait and get a warrant for their data from Google or Amazon which is time consuming and filled with paper pushing, plus the added fact that Google and Amazon have both pushed back in recent years in court battles. When it comes to "Big Brother" you are fighting a rather big monster with zero days, money and time on its side. Even as someone with enterprise grade networking equipment in his house and a security background, I just know its a time game if you fighting the "MAN". I had a friend that was super paranoid. Enterprise gear, no IOT, custom linux router with live patching, some pretty cool stuff. Asked me to pentest him. A door left unlocked (planned to use a bump key) by his wife before leaving the house and a PoisonTap attack on a windows computer and he was pawned. GAME OVER.

ataturk 9y ago

Whatever the utility, there are certain lines that I draw with my privacy and having an open mic anywhere in my house is one of those lines. It's foolish. There are millions upon millions of foolish people out there. Whether or not you care who hears you, whether or not anyone is listening, you can't argue it is benign technology. Google and Amazon are most certainly listening because it's what they do. There are no assurances they can give that would be enough. The data is one subpoena away from being used against you anytime.

ZenoArrow 9y ago

> "Why do you think millions of people bought an Echo Dot or a Google Home? Not from YOUR perspective, but from the perspective of millions of people that seem to see value in this product?" I have no problem with the product category Echo Dot and Google Home sit in, and can see why they make interesting gifts, my only issue is with the surveillance aspects of these devices. Why do I think people bought them regardless of this issue? I'd suggest either surveillance wasn't forefront in their minds, or it doesn't bother them that much. What's interesting to me is to compare these devices to Google Glass. There was a huge backlash about Google Glass as it was obvious people were being recorded without their consent. You had people wearing the devices getting called glassholes, and the devices being banned from certain venues. Compare that to the Echo Dot. The level of unwarranted surveillance with Google Glass and Echo Dot is pretty much the same, but because one is less visible than the other it doesn't get the same level of backlash. Is there something about audio surveillance which makes it more socially acceptable than video surveillance? If a future version of Amazon Echo came with a camera that watched your actions, would that get people to see the downsides of these devices? I'm not sure.

amrrs 9y ago
You absolutely nailed it. I think it has to do with human psychology. Anything similar to spectacle is easily connected to being watched (literally) while even the amount of (useful) data collected by an always on microphone could relativity high. Maybe for a privacy advocate, the only possible way to bring awareness as equivalent as is to make people understand and believe that it sits and is always listening during day and night (unlike the glass which is on only when worn)
- illumin8 9y ago
  No, he didn't. How do you justify carrying a smartphone with an always listening microphone into shared public spaces (many listen for wake words now), but get hung up on having a microphone in your private residence? Google has a horrific track record on privacy, but Amazon knows who their customers are, and would never do anything to violate their trust. With Amazon, you're the customer, with Google, you're the product.

jsz0 9y ago

> Why do you think millions of people bought an Echo Dot or a Google Home? Probably because they emulate human conversation well enough to make people feel less lonely.

JulianRaphael 9y ago
Unfortunately, for a large group of people this seems to be true. When I see these products, I often remember a talk of a Buddhist teacher titled "Loneliness is the ill being of our time." [1] I do believe that one of the next waves of technological innovations will evolve exactly around this topic: how can we make people feel less lonely? [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZ1x9bzl2Ww https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZ1x9bzl2Ww

Kiro 9y ago

I use HN comments as a predictor of future events, whether it be product trends or Bitcoin prices. Just take whatever is posted here and reverse it.

18pfsmt 9y ago
>Just take whatever is posted here and reverse it. Considering the myriad of viewpoints shown on HN, I don't think that is a reasonable take. I first learned about Bitcoin on HN in 2010, long before it became well-known. Also, when Apple announced the Homepod, the financial press was constantly comparing it to Amazon Echo, but HN knew it made more sense to compare it to Sonos. Not every comment on HN is spot-on, to be sure, but the signal-to-noise here is better than 99.9% of the web.
- JulianRaphael 9y ago
  I fully agree that the signal-to-noise ratio on HN is better than elsewhere on the web, which is why I love coming here. HN shines when people share their sharp thinking, creativity and ability to reflect and adjust their strong, factually based opinions. That is exactly what led me to post my comment, because I've noticed that this community has grown in the past few years and with the growth the quality of discussions (sometimes) has become less informative and occasionally resembles a "typical" comment section on the internet. I realised that I can influence this trend by participating more actively in the discussions. Hence, my resolution for 2018 is to more often post questions, rather than arguments to hopefully drive forward our collective creativity and intelligence. HN is a truly special place on the web!
consz 9y ago
People on HN panned the hell out of Juicero, and they were right on the money. I think HN comments are probably mean zero at predicting product trends.

slantyyz 9y ago

I can tell you why I chose the Echo. I'm probably significantly older than the mean at HN, and I'm starting to forget stuff. My wife and I find the shopping list and reminders very handy compared to using the phone. I also have underutilized smart home devices (wemo, harmony hub, etc) and Echo just got introduced in Canada at a lower price. I read that Echo has slightly better smart home compatibility than Home, so I decided to go with Echo. My friends with the Home seem equally happy with their devices as I am. I use Echo to turn on groups of lights by voice. It's great. My main gripe with the Echo is that the skills are region locked. There are tons of skills that are only English (US) and not available for English (Canada) yet. I'm lucky that the two skills I'm waiting for aren't that important to me. I get that there are privacy concerns, but I ended up opting convenience and functional benefit over them. I kinda see my Echo as "big brother[1] with benefits". [1] big sister might be more accurate, given that we only have the option of a female voice with Echo

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throwaway7645 9y ago

Perfect example is my mother in law bought one for her husband. They then have to have us set it up and after asking it a knock knock joke or two end up hating it. I've observed that a lot of the over 50 crowd get the weather + news from the TV, while the technologically savy use the internet or a phone app already. Sure Alexa can do it, but it honestly isn't much more convenient than your phone which is easier to glance at visual data than listen for a couple of minutes as Alexa reads it off. There is a cool list of Easter eggs someone posted on Reddit like asking her to "beam me up", "set phasers to stun", or "Alexa I am your father". It has a neat SciFi choose your own adventure game, but they thought that was stupid. One thing that bothered me was Alexa couldn't say who made her other than "Amazon". The AIM chatbot smarterchild could even spit out a list. I wanted to hear a list of developers or something funny like the "marketing division of the Sirius Cybernetics Corporation" (from hitchikers guide to the galaxy).

659087 9y ago

> Why do you think millions of people bought an Echo Dot or a Google Home? Not from YOUR perspective, but from the perspective of millions of people that seem to see value in this product? Because it was the "hot new thing". Of the many "non-technical" people I know who foolishly put these things in their homes over the past couple years, all but a few have unplugged them and thrown them in a closet already. It was a novelty at first, but one they quickly realized didn't offer much or any advantage over what they could already do with their phones - and wasn't worth the added surveillance. My sister in particular was creeped out by how often it seemed to activate without any "wake words" being said. Now that Amazon made them cheap enough to be stocking stuffers even for lower income families in order to expand their mass surveillance network, a whole new portion of society will get to go through the same process. I think anyone who puts these in their home should be required to have some kind of sign on their door to let anyone who enters know that "by entering this home, you agree to Amazon/Google's privacy policy".

usrusr 9y ago

Buying decisions for gifts between adults who constantly buy stuff for themselves are governed by a very special set of rules. It can't be something they already have. It can't be something from a special interest hobby field, where enthusiasts identify deeply with every single related purchase decision. It can't be a commodity they would routinely buy anyways, that'd be like giving money. This leaves us with purely sacrificial gifts ("to show you that I care, I have, through an elaborate mechanism too complicated not only to explain but also to understand, paid some poor kid to spend their life burrowing through dirt to find this nice stone which I now present to you"), things you know they would have bought, but didn't like the price and, most importantly, things they might like but they don't know it yet. Echo dot and the like must be huge holiday sellers because many people who would never but one might still enjoy then, and the whole concept is sufficiently new that even a blind guess yields an acceptable risk in "do they already have one?". And then there is of course the onegenerational aspect, a great many senior citizens who never got fully accustomed to digital screen media have children or grandchildren who can't think of much besides gadgets, perfect match.

GuiA 9y ago
So, in other words, "gadgets". Kitchen gadgets (rather than tech gadgets) are also a popular choice for that kind of gift. There are 2 kinds of gifts I like to give that aren't "purely sacrificial gifts": either a book I think the recipient will enjoy (this could be a graphic novel or art book if they aren't much of a reader), or a framed print of a portrait of their kid/partner/themselves with friends/etc. (I do large format film photography and make my own prints, so obviously the latter option is not a possibility for everyone. Still, books are great)
api 9y ago
Give the gift of pervasive surveillance!

Spooky23 9y ago

It’s a product with a heavy marketing push, that’s the why. In terms of the response to these devices... they are tough devices in that they do not stand alone, and their usefulness is really defined by who the user is. I think what you’re reading here is a coming to grips with it. Nobody really knows what these things are good for yet... but someone’s teenager likes to listen to music with it and someone’s grandma likes to control the lights. The same discussions were had about the “information superhighway” in 1997 :)

mcny 9y ago
> It’s a product with a heavy marketing push, that’s the why. I absolutely agree. They also fixed the most glaring problem of the Fire Phone -- the cost. As I write this, the echo dot is $30 [screenshot]. Over 60% of US households apparently has Amazon prime. This is a good purchase for them I think. [screenshot] https://screenshots.firefoxusercontent.com/images/a164594d-5b86-4bbd-86e2-3b5876808c0d.jpg https://screenshots.firefoxusercontent.com/images/a164594d-5...

Touche 9y ago

> This is something I notice here on HN in product-related discussions more and more: people just say what THEY think about product X (typically a negative opinion or complaint), rather being creative, constructive or inquisitive. I think that's always been true, if anything it might have gotten a little better. I remember back in the early smartphone-wars days any article about the iPhone would illicit numerous "iPhone is too locked down" comments and any Android article would illicit numerous "The UI is bad" comments. Somewhat related, the most influencial Paul Graham article for me is http://www.paulgraham.com/identity.html http://www.paulgraham.com/identity.html. I try (and often fail) to apply this when responding to articles.

jimmaswell 9y ago

I truly don't understand how so many people could buy something that literally does nothing their phone couldn't already do. Maybe it was marketing.

kenjackson 9y ago
The same reason people bought smartphones that literally did nothing their laptop couldn't do. Ease of use. I can turn on my entertainment system or turn off my lights with my phone, but its a lot easier to just say it, versus getting my phone out of my pocket, turning it on, finding the app, launching the app, going to the screen to turn on the thingie, and then pressing the right button.
- jimmaswell 9y ago
  If this is such a selling point then why is there no widespread adoption of this level of voice control on smart phones? It's certainly technically doable.
  - kenjackson 9y ago
    If cell phones could do this w/o me having to get it out of my pocket/purse, then I think it would catch on. Also, Siri at least, seems to have very little extensibility (or at least no one is using it).
Digory 9y ago
Not really. Many people have older phones, with batteries that fade, so they don't enable auto-listening. Neither iPhone nor Google tap into Prime music via voice, which is a service most pay for, over Apple music or Play. To play music from my phone right now, I have to swipe to Bluetooth, connect to the speaker, wait for the bloop, switch to my music app, and play. It connects automatically in my car, but not my kitchen, and even in the car, I have to hunt down overcast to play podcasts. In almost every case, it's faster and easier to shout out to Alexa in my kitchen.

e40 9y ago

Why do you think millions of people bought an Echo Dot or a Google Home? In general, I think people have a lot of tendencies to follow the crowd, or follow what they perceive as cool. I also don't think people think about the ramifications of what it might mean for the future (and surveillance). This leads into a much bigger conversation about people's view of the future. I feel very few (percentage wise) are thinking about the next generation. There was a great interview with Jane Goodall on Startalk. She latched onto this, as well. The whole climate change debate is so strange to me. People seem to get angry that scientists say it is caused by humans. To me, that doesn't matter at all. We are clearly warming and we should take measures to reverse it, no matter what the cause. As Goodall said, we don't look at decisions in our time and ask: is this good for future generations? That is rarely part of the conversation (it might be introduced, but it's quickly swamped by other things).

zeep 9y ago

One reason is probably because it is almost always shown on the homepage in a large banner-style ad ...

michaelbuckbee 9y ago

The Echo Dot feels like a device from the future to most people outside of our bubble. I have a 76 year old auntie. After setting it up and explaining to her how to use it, she was able to request that Alexa play her favorite pop song from when she was a teenager and it worked. It worked despite: - This was her first time using it and she's wildly not a computer person - Her having a thick tagalog accent - It was some fairly obscure song that hasn't been played on the radio for forever She's blown away and assumes that it costs $1000s of dollars, because nothing else works like this so it must be horrendously expensive, but no it costs about what a decent alarm clock/radio costs. Similarly, my young kids love it as well b/c they can request music, etc. While the primary use in our house is music, a close second would be timers+alarms (for cooking, leaving the house, taking turns, waking up, etc.) they're so quick and easy to set up.

bertil 9y ago
> taking turns Anecdotic question but can the Echo run a rotation, like a chore wheel?

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