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China can take ambitious practical goals like that seriously. The West cannot, the West is problematically irresponsible.
by meganibla 9y ago
China can take ambitious practical goals like that seriously. The West cannot, the West is problematically irresponsible.
- Fej 9y agoIn the West, we decided that individual liberty is more important than mass control. The Chinese government is corrupt to the core. Do you want that kind of government controlling you?
- goldenkey 9y agoI certainly don't want my organs harvested because I smoked weed on my birthday.
- chipperyman573 9y agoChina kills people for smoking weed https://www.420magazine.com/forums/china/87294-china-marijuana-laws.html https://www.420magazine.com/forums/china/87294-china-marijua... I'm not sure what that was supposed to mean, anyway. America doesn't harvest the organs of convicted citizens.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- whooshee 9y agoVery interesting, I've never heard anyone in China have their organ stolen by smoking weeds or taking drugs. China may execute drug dealers but not drug users.
- seanmcdirmid 9y agoOrgan harvesting of condemned prisoners continues although China has promised to to stop it multiple times. It’s why china has some of the quickest turn around times for organ transplants even though it has one of the lowest voluntary donation rates.
- goldenkey 9y agoThank you for shedding light on this. Amazing how we are being downvoted for speaking the truth. I thought HN was illuminated?
- VeejayRampay 9y agoDo you seriously think politicians in the "West" (whatever that means) are not corrupt? Have you followed the news in the past say 20 years?
- adventured 9y agoYou're setting up a fake strawman that the parent comment never suggested at all. In no regard did the parent say that politicians in the West are not or are never corrupt, nor did they imply it. They said China's government is corrupt to the core.
- VeejayRampay 9y agoThe parent did mention that "in the West" individual liberty is more important than mass control without providing any evidence to back it up. Then proceeded to mention how corrupt the Chinese government is. It is true that they never say that the governments in the West are not corrupt, but by setting up the main point like that, it sure looks like trying to mirror the corruption and mass control in China with the individual liberty of the West, which seems a lot like whitewashing to me. There is mass control and corruption in the West, it just takes a less obvious form.
- TeMPOraL 9y agoAnd couldn't the same be said about US government? Or France government? Or any other Western government? How is it that China is obviously "corrupt to the core", but our governments are not? Pretty much daily reports in the news about corruption in western democracies - they all don't count, I assume, because what we have here is not True Corruption?
- cycrutchfield 9y agoSo you're saying that because we do not hear about corruption in state-controlled media in countries like China and Russia, but we do hear about corruption in countries like the US or France, is evidence that Western corruption is more rampant than elsewhere?
- whooshee 9y agoOf course, legalized donations and interest groups in the West are not corrupted at all.
- seanmcdirmid 9y agoBecause their legal, at least they are somewhat transparent. It also helps the west better adhere to rule of law, while in china it is all illegal but happens anyways (law isn’t very important compared to official whimsy).
- forkLding 9y agoI have several rebuttals, however note that I do not support the CCP and I wont kid myself in saying that I'm not in China not for a reason. China looks towards stability and economic growth right now instead of individual liberty simply because it has poor people who live in abject poverty in vilages and this is the majority. Only the coastal minority and the major cities have seen economic uplift. Corruption is rampant and that is true but the objective is still for economic progress and national development, other countries suffer this issue, with the BRICs being a great example, Brazil's presidencies have been rocked by corruption scandals and the establishment is strong. Individual liberty is not really on an individual basis in USA. Individual liberty and full rights has only been given to citizens which is every person born in America. It has traditionally been given to WASP and Americans of European descent and neglected for former descendants of slaves, etc. What I would say is that this is a transition. China will become better and be the kind of govt people need. After all, we all know that if you were Black in USA in the past, you did not have a good time and would see govt as a negatice coercive force trying to control and probably actively enslave you dependant on the times. EDIT: irrelevent anecdote, I started judging countries based on their airports because its a quick litmus test for either how bad corruption is or just how bad the local govt is. I started this after the person checking my ticket in Nepal would only let me pass and depart if I paid a bribe. This was in front of a queue of people. Turns out theres a first time for everything.
- code_sloth 9y agoHow is the west any less corrupt? The big corporations are basically machinery at this point. Their only purpose is to self perpetuate and benefit themselves and their shareholders, many times at the expense of the public. At least their government is attempting to fix problems, and not leaving everything to the free market Gods. Besides, look who the US elected for president. Every single check and balance in the system failed to keep Trump in check. I'd say the US government doesn't look that much better. Liberty is a double edged sword that cuts both ways. Few wield it as intended. Most people pick it up and swing wildy because they don't like something, and they are no better than a mob.
- chronic193 9y agoIt is Trump's job to put Americans and only Americans first. If you are a European, get in the back of the line.
- hktrl 9y agoahahahah it's that what they told you? So you're saying that when the NSA was controlling anyone was not a form of 'government control' but just a way to express their 'individual liberty'? I don't see much differences between US and China, especially on the matter of mass control.
- cycrutchfield 9y agoIf you are not going to make intellectually honest arguments here, I suggest that you just not post.
- hktrl 9y agoI can see that US is mass-controlling their Citizen as well as China. How many arguments you want? NSA has spied anyone in the earth; Facebook, Google, Microsoft, Twitter, Apple and all the tech companies in US share the information to their government anytime. How many proof you want? If you apply for an ESTA visa they ask your social media accounts (as optional - like they don't know how to search you)
- goldenkey 9y agoNo, the West can but we don't kid ourselves by thinking that the means to the end won't be inhumane and violent. Just like the 1 child policy. There's ways to accomplish things gracefully, and they tend not to be explicit .. they tend to be encouraging the alternatives, finding underlying causes, and promoting those. To cause subtle percolating change. China's way for change is reminiscent of when they killed all the insects and then caused starvation of millions. Brute force solutions are not the answer. And neither are brute-force black-line cutoffs. Initatives. Not cutoffs. Freedom with encouragement of positive behavior. Not forced behavior.
- PhasmaFelis 9y agoEvicting tens of thousands of poor people on no notice is "responsible" to you.
- 7952 9y agoControl over building is extremely common in "the west". It may not be explicitly about population, but limiting population is a common result. Try building a slum in London and see how long it lasts.