11 ms·

>"It's mostly the rent but it's also Amazon." How is it Amazon, when there's no shortage of people shopping in Manhattan? The streets are filled with people ca

>"It's mostly the rent but it's also Amazon." How is it Amazon, when there's no shortage of people shopping in Manhattan? The streets are filled with people carrying shopping bags, every day of the week. Almost to the point of annoyance. Between locals and tourists people are never not out shopping. >"NYC needs bodegas, bars, and coffee shops .." There's absolutely no shortage of any of those three things. Those things are so incredibly abundant it seems very odd to say the city needs more of them.

bluntfang 9y ago
>The streets are filled with people carrying shopping bags, every day of the week. anecdotes are great, but why don't you search for the numbers of brick and motor retail sales vs online sales?
- themagician 9y ago
  About 9-to-1 in just about every industry. Retail isn’t growing, but it still accounts for 80-90% of sales in almost every industry. Online sales will probably overtake brick and mortar… in 5 to 10 years—in the US. Amazon is big, but only really in he US. And only certain verticals. And only typically among affluent urban households. That’s why their stock has always been so high. Amazon has, and still has, massive growth potential. When you get everything from Amazon you assume everyone else does. But the reality is that you (and I) are an extreme minority. You forget how many people pay cash in the US. And how many people international have shit or extremely poor/expensive mail service. And how >3 billion or so people live in countries with import tariffs that are 40% or more. And while internet access is prevalent, buying everyday items online is not. It’s really easy to lose sight of how the vast majority live when you live in an urban area and work at a technically progressive company.
  - x0x0 9y ago
    I've actually become concerned enough about Amazon's utter unwillingness to address their counterfeit product problem that we've stopped buying food, makeup, sunblock, lotion, or anything that uses electricity on Amazon. See also just this year their recall of eclipse glasses. After four tries to get name brand and working batteries for my car remote on Amazon, I gave up and purchased them at a local hardware store. It wasn't as convenient as Amazon, but it was a lot more convenient than Amazon allowing scum to sell repackaged no-name crap instead of the particular batteries I needed over and over again...
    - cm2187 9y ago
      You will only have this problem if you buy from the amazon market place. If you restrict your search to seller=amazon I would expect you to be pretty safe.
      - crankylinuxuser 9y ago
        I only wish this were true. We needed a refrigerator water filter a month back. So I head to amazon and look at different products available, including cheaper. Didnt like the reviews for the 3rd party and went the samsung filter. And I see what they offer is retail price. I read the reviews and I see a trend on the comments "counterfeit", "counterfeit", and "not real product". And that was from Amazon, on a verified product's line. So I went to Lowes. They had them in stock for the same price. Except with 0 chance of counterfeit.
        cglace 9y ago
        Buying a water filter for my fridge from Amazon was a terrible experience. Everything was mislabeled, obviously counterfeit, or had terrible reviews. Buying from home depot was much easier.
        kevin_thibedeau 9y ago
        On the flip side it is near impossible to buy standard cylinder filters at retail establishments because they are all Hawking proprietary systems.
      - samsolomon 9y ago
        I don't think this is true anymore. I'm sure most items in Amazon's inventory are commingled with third-party sellers using FBA. I'm sure this is helps Amazon with logistics, but it also makes it difficult to catch counterfeit goods.
        cm2187 9y ago
        That sounds like a horrendous idea. How could amazon possibly think it made sense to do that?
  - jpatokal 9y ago
    Online retail in China has a 25% share of all sales, around 2.5x higher than the US, and still growing rapidly, and this in a country with 3x the population of the US.
    - seanmcdirmid 9y ago
      Brick and mortar retail in China has also been pretty dysfunctional and never really developed completely like it did in the west (every mall having the same set of stores like every movie theater having the same set of movies). Then you have the state owned department stores that never really figured out what to do once their monopoly was broken.
  - geezerjay 9y ago
    > When you get everything from Amazon you assume everyone else does. But the reality is that you (and I) are an extreme minority. Sounds about right. For the rest of the world Amazon is at best a bookstore that is actually just a middlemen for other online retailers. This doesn't even register in any real estate decision.
    - Feniks 9y ago
      I'll never understand Amazon's domination in the US. Its like everyone not Bezos chose to completely ignore the internet.
      - nsnick 9y ago
        Free shipping. Most other retailers still don’t offer it and if they do, there are absurd limits like you have to spend $100.
      - sigstoat 9y ago
        Hell, Borders had Amazon running their website at one point. I can only imagine Bezos had to leave the room during negotiations because he was laughing too hard.
        wyclif 9y ago
        Possibly. It was an incredibly stupid move. I was a manager at Borders during its mid-90s rise, and I told them at that time that Amazon was going to eat their lunch. They didn't believe it and didn't listen. While Amazon was focusing on developing their supply chain and getting consumers accustomed to buying online, Borders was building massive stores everywhere that couldn't turn a profit. They were also going into debt to do this. They were simultaneously not conservative enough (finances) and not innovative enough (the Internet).
        kamaal 9y ago
        Unless you know what you are buying and have a sense of what quality you are buying, its impossible to buy online. There is a reason why most people get a touch and feel of things at places like Target and then buy it online. In India where large retailers like Target are absent and people have no way of getting the 'look and feel', the trend is its getting very hard to sell things, unless you throw impossible discounts at customers.
  - ryanwaggoner 9y ago
    Retail isn’t growing, but it still accounts for 80-90% of sales in almost every industry. Online sales will probably overtake brick and mortar… in 5 to 10 years—in the US. Amazon is big, but only really in he US. And only certain verticals. And only typically among affluent urban households. You’re describing why online will badly damage NYC retail, which is the context of this conversation.
  - lotsofpulp 9y ago
    Retail's margins are tiny, so even losing 10% of sales can be catastrophic, especially if a business is surviving on loans.
    - pbhjpbhj 9y ago
      Which is just another form of 'rent', renting money. Working to further enrich the capital holders.
- bogomipz 9y ago
  Its not an anecdote. Have you spent any time in NYC? Why do I need to search for numbers comparing brick and mortar vs online? Of course online retail is growing faster than brick and mortar but the topic here is New York City which is an outlier. NYC is a shopping destination for US, international and tri-state area tourists. People come to NYC specifically so they can shop along the retail corridors of Broadway in Midtown, Soho, Nolita and the Meat Packing Districts, The Flatiron and many others. It's seen as an experience since you can walk, shop and see landmarks like Rockefeller Center, The Empire State building, Grand Central while you do so. https://therealdeal.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Manhattan_Retail_MarketView_Q1-2017.pdf https://therealdeal.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Manhattan...
donkeyd 9y ago
When I traveled to NYC I had a bunch of stuff from Amazon delivered to my AirBnB. I would've probably bought that in stores if Amazon didn't exist. The only stuff I bought in stores was pants and shoes, since US sizes tend to be different from EU sizes.
- bogomipz 9y ago
  So rather than go out and explore New York City via a shopping experience, you stayed inside your AirBnB and interacted with your computer? Why even bother visiting? I can assure there is nothing unique about the Amazon experience in NYC compared to somewhere else.
  - dcarmo 9y ago
    It's not like everyone have the kind of money to do NYC shopping experience (specially if you're not American.)
    - bogomipz 9y ago
      You don't have to spend money to wander in and out of stores and window shop on your way to other tourists attractions though. Unless you are in a rush that's kind of an organic thing in a walking city. And if you have disposable income to use on Amazon.com while you are visiting NYC then presumably you could also spend a similar amount locally.
      - pavel_lishin 9y ago
        But you might have more money than you have time, in which case it makes sense to ship stuff from Amazon, and use the time you'd spend buying power adapters or extra socks or whatever to go and see the Math Museum or something.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - kpozin 9y ago
Spooky23 9y ago
It depends where you are and how wealthy you are. NYC is a reflection of america. The old school Greek diner has been replaced by Starbucks and non luxury retail is largely homogenized. It’s also a much les diversified economy than it was in the past. New development of fancy building that lay empty as speculative investments starve out the storefronts.
- notyourday 9y ago
  > NYC is a reflection of america. The old school Greek diner has been replaced by Starbucks and non luxury retail is largely homogenized. Good. If the old school greek diner that has been in the neighbourhood since 1970s does not own the bricks is probably is a sucky diner that has not kept up with the times. It also probably means that it is way too large. Corner stores in Manhattan give you what a old school greek diner gave you food wise. The diner simply did not adapt. > New development of fancy building that lay empty as speculative investments starve out the storefronts. So? They collapse and new places go in there. That's why we have abundance of popup stores in such spaces in Manhattan and developed portions of Brooklyn ( think Williamsburg, Dumbo, Park Slope ) Most of the complains are coming from old timers, such as the ones that live in rent regulated or rent controlled apartments sometimes paying $250 a month for FOUR BEDROOM. I'm sure what they would really want is that the stores where they shop were also regulated so they could pay 3% of the prices those who showed up after them pay.

bluntfang 9y ago

>The streets are filled with people carrying shopping bags, every day of the week. anecdotes are great, but why don't you search for the numbers of brick and motor retail sales vs online sales?

themagician 9y ago
About 9-to-1 in just about every industry. Retail isn’t growing, but it still accounts for 80-90% of sales in almost every industry. Online sales will probably overtake brick and mortar… in 5 to 10 years—in the US. Amazon is big, but only really in he US. And only certain verticals. And only typically among affluent urban households. That’s why their stock has always been so high. Amazon has, and still has, massive growth potential. When you get everything from Amazon you assume everyone else does. But the reality is that you (and I) are an extreme minority. You forget how many people pay cash in the US. And how many people international have shit or extremely poor/expensive mail service. And how >3 billion or so people live in countries with import tariffs that are 40% or more. And while internet access is prevalent, buying everyday items online is not. It’s really easy to lose sight of how the vast majority live when you live in an urban area and work at a technically progressive company.
- x0x0 9y ago
  I've actually become concerned enough about Amazon's utter unwillingness to address their counterfeit product problem that we've stopped buying food, makeup, sunblock, lotion, or anything that uses electricity on Amazon. See also just this year their recall of eclipse glasses. After four tries to get name brand and working batteries for my car remote on Amazon, I gave up and purchased them at a local hardware store. It wasn't as convenient as Amazon, but it was a lot more convenient than Amazon allowing scum to sell repackaged no-name crap instead of the particular batteries I needed over and over again...
  - cm2187 9y ago
    You will only have this problem if you buy from the amazon market place. If you restrict your search to seller=amazon I would expect you to be pretty safe.
    - crankylinuxuser 9y ago
      I only wish this were true. We needed a refrigerator water filter a month back. So I head to amazon and look at different products available, including cheaper. Didnt like the reviews for the 3rd party and went the samsung filter. And I see what they offer is retail price. I read the reviews and I see a trend on the comments "counterfeit", "counterfeit", and "not real product". And that was from Amazon, on a verified product's line. So I went to Lowes. They had them in stock for the same price. Except with 0 chance of counterfeit.
      - cglace 9y ago
        Buying a water filter for my fridge from Amazon was a terrible experience. Everything was mislabeled, obviously counterfeit, or had terrible reviews. Buying from home depot was much easier.
      - kevin_thibedeau 9y ago
        On the flip side it is near impossible to buy standard cylinder filters at retail establishments because they are all Hawking proprietary systems.
    - samsolomon 9y ago
      I don't think this is true anymore. I'm sure most items in Amazon's inventory are commingled with third-party sellers using FBA. I'm sure this is helps Amazon with logistics, but it also makes it difficult to catch counterfeit goods.
      - cm2187 9y ago
        That sounds like a horrendous idea. How could amazon possibly think it made sense to do that?
- jpatokal 9y ago
  Online retail in China has a 25% share of all sales, around 2.5x higher than the US, and still growing rapidly, and this in a country with 3x the population of the US.
  - seanmcdirmid 9y ago
    Brick and mortar retail in China has also been pretty dysfunctional and never really developed completely like it did in the west (every mall having the same set of stores like every movie theater having the same set of movies). Then you have the state owned department stores that never really figured out what to do once their monopoly was broken.
- geezerjay 9y ago
  > When you get everything from Amazon you assume everyone else does. But the reality is that you (and I) are an extreme minority. Sounds about right. For the rest of the world Amazon is at best a bookstore that is actually just a middlemen for other online retailers. This doesn't even register in any real estate decision.
  - Feniks 9y ago
    I'll never understand Amazon's domination in the US. Its like everyone not Bezos chose to completely ignore the internet.
    - nsnick 9y ago
      Free shipping. Most other retailers still don’t offer it and if they do, there are absurd limits like you have to spend $100.
    - sigstoat 9y ago
      Hell, Borders had Amazon running their website at one point. I can only imagine Bezos had to leave the room during negotiations because he was laughing too hard.
      - wyclif 9y ago
        Possibly. It was an incredibly stupid move. I was a manager at Borders during its mid-90s rise, and I told them at that time that Amazon was going to eat their lunch. They didn't believe it and didn't listen. While Amazon was focusing on developing their supply chain and getting consumers accustomed to buying online, Borders was building massive stores everywhere that couldn't turn a profit. They were also going into debt to do this. They were simultaneously not conservative enough (finances) and not innovative enough (the Internet).
        kamaal 9y ago
        Unless you know what you are buying and have a sense of what quality you are buying, its impossible to buy online. There is a reason why most people get a touch and feel of things at places like Target and then buy it online. In India where large retailers like Target are absent and people have no way of getting the 'look and feel', the trend is its getting very hard to sell things, unless you throw impossible discounts at customers.
- ryanwaggoner 9y ago
  Retail isn’t growing, but it still accounts for 80-90% of sales in almost every industry. Online sales will probably overtake brick and mortar… in 5 to 10 years—in the US. Amazon is big, but only really in he US. And only certain verticals. And only typically among affluent urban households. You’re describing why online will badly damage NYC retail, which is the context of this conversation.
- lotsofpulp 9y ago
  Retail's margins are tiny, so even losing 10% of sales can be catastrophic, especially if a business is surviving on loans.
  - pbhjpbhj 9y ago
    Which is just another form of 'rent', renting money. Working to further enrich the capital holders.
bogomipz 9y ago
Its not an anecdote. Have you spent any time in NYC? Why do I need to search for numbers comparing brick and mortar vs online? Of course online retail is growing faster than brick and mortar but the topic here is New York City which is an outlier. NYC is a shopping destination for US, international and tri-state area tourists. People come to NYC specifically so they can shop along the retail corridors of Broadway in Midtown, Soho, Nolita and the Meat Packing Districts, The Flatiron and many others. It's seen as an experience since you can walk, shop and see landmarks like Rockefeller Center, The Empire State building, Grand Central while you do so. https://therealdeal.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Manhattan_Retail_MarketView_Q1-2017.pdf https://therealdeal.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Manhattan...

donkeyd 9y ago

When I traveled to NYC I had a bunch of stuff from Amazon delivered to my AirBnB. I would've probably bought that in stores if Amazon didn't exist. The only stuff I bought in stores was pants and shoes, since US sizes tend to be different from EU sizes.

bogomipz 9y ago
So rather than go out and explore New York City via a shopping experience, you stayed inside your AirBnB and interacted with your computer? Why even bother visiting? I can assure there is nothing unique about the Amazon experience in NYC compared to somewhere else.
- dcarmo 9y ago
  It's not like everyone have the kind of money to do NYC shopping experience (specially if you're not American.)
  - bogomipz 9y ago
    You don't have to spend money to wander in and out of stores and window shop on your way to other tourists attractions though. Unless you are in a rush that's kind of an organic thing in a walking city. And if you have disposable income to use on Amazon.com while you are visiting NYC then presumably you could also spend a similar amount locally.
    - pavel_lishin 9y ago
      But you might have more money than you have time, in which case it makes sense to ship stuff from Amazon, and use the time you'd spend buying power adapters or extra socks or whatever to go and see the Math Museum or something.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- kpozin 9y ago

Spooky23 9y ago

It depends where you are and how wealthy you are. NYC is a reflection of america. The old school Greek diner has been replaced by Starbucks and non luxury retail is largely homogenized. It’s also a much les diversified economy than it was in the past. New development of fancy building that lay empty as speculative investments starve out the storefronts.

notyourday 9y ago
> NYC is a reflection of america. The old school Greek diner has been replaced by Starbucks and non luxury retail is largely homogenized. Good. If the old school greek diner that has been in the neighbourhood since 1970s does not own the bricks is probably is a sucky diner that has not kept up with the times. It also probably means that it is way too large. Corner stores in Manhattan give you what a old school greek diner gave you food wise. The diner simply did not adapt. > New development of fancy building that lay empty as speculative investments starve out the storefronts. So? They collapse and new places go in there. That's why we have abundance of popup stores in such spaces in Manhattan and developed portions of Brooklyn ( think Williamsburg, Dumbo, Park Slope ) Most of the complains are coming from old timers, such as the ones that live in rent regulated or rent controlled apartments sometimes paying $250 a month for FOUR BEDROOM. I'm sure what they would really want is that the stores where they shop were also regulated so they could pay 3% of the prices those who showed up after them pay.