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Bitcoin Cash deals frozen as insider trading is probed

182 points by warp 9y ago

0xADADA 9y ago
It was so apparent if you watched just a few exchanges.
zarita_existe 9y ago
Cryptocoins are all a big fraud - fake money to buy fake drugs. This comes at no surprise.
- deadmetheny 9y ago
  I assure you the drugs are real.
- etr-strike 9y ago
  Bitcoin is as real as the USD. At least with Bitcoin you know what the properties of your currency are. The Federal Reserve doesn't even publish the amount of M3 money anymore: https://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/h6/discm3.htm https://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/h6/discm3.htm If that doesn't give you pause, I don't know what will.
  - victor106 9y ago
    > The Federal Reserve doesn't even publish the amount of M3 money anymore: except they do. See below. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MABMM301USA657S https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MABMM301USA657S I am not anti-crypto. I think in the future most transactions would move there. But the state of the current crypto's won't get us there. If you close your eyes for a min and just think about the .com bust that is exactly what is happening here. I know of companies during that time that had nothing to do with IT and they would just announce that they are investing in IT and there stocks would triple. Read below for similar crypto news. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-18/fintech-mircocap-stock-jumps-2-400-after-touting-crypto-link https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-18/fintech-m...
    - etr-strike 9y ago
      Hmm I'm confused in that case. Did the Fed start publishing it again? The link I provided is to the official Federal Reserve website clearly stating they are discontinuing the publication of M3.
    - mitchellberry 9y ago
      > except they do. See below. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MABMM301USA657S https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MABMM301USA657S > Source: Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development St Louis fed is publishing third party estimates there, official reporting stopped in 2007.
      - victor106 9y ago
        See this https://mises.org/library/death-m3-fifth-anniversary https://mises.org/library/death-m3-fifth-anniversary And https://www.garynorth.com/public/6538.cfm https://www.garynorth.com/public/6538.cfm TLDR: The end of the first link provides a response from Bernanke which says that the public would still have access to the data but the fed won’t aggregate it and report it. What the OECD does is the aggregation and reporting based on the raw fed data. The second link provides why the M3 was useless to begin with.
  - adrianN 9y ago
    You can't pay your taxes in Bitcoin.
    - down 9y ago
      as you can't pay them with gold..
      - adrianN 9y ago
        Gold doesn't claim to be a currency just as real as the Dollar.
      - saalweachter 9y ago
        You know, I'm willing to bet if you showed up at your local tax collector's with a large enough chunk of gold, they'd work with you.
        tlholaday 9y ago
        Yes, but if you showed up in Tax Court with a chunk of gold, you would risk being held in contempt.
        AskewEgret 9y ago
        A 1-ounce gold coin issued by the US Mint is legal tender to the tune of $50. It says so right on the coin. If you want to pay your taxes using gold coins, go right ahead. They will gladly accept it.
    - 55555 9y ago
      What? That doesn't even make any sense. You can sell the bitcoin for USD then pay your taxes. Just like you can't pay your taxes with 1 billion dollars worth of Facebook stock or gold. The argument you are looking for is: "USD has value BECAUSE the state makes you pay your taxes in it." Notice that that argument does not end with, "and this is the only way a commodity or currency can have value." Because there are different reasons that different things have value and more than one thing has value. Your comment is intellectually lazy and you don't have to believe in crypto to come to this conclusion.
  - lurr 9y ago
    > Bitcoin is as real as the USD Not really. The USD is as real as the US government. If the US government collapses I'm not going to trust Bitcoin to save me.
- altocr 9y ago
  My speedmaster bought in bitcoins is pretty real and beautiful !
CaptainZapp 9y ago
"Brian Armstrong responded that he had repeatedly warned his staff not to disclose its launch plans to family or friends or to trade in the digital asset themselves." So the whole staff new about this move, from which it is to be expected to move the market when published? Charitably put, that's naive.
- sp332 9y ago
  He doesn't have to believe it. It still shifts liability away from himself.
- Gargoyle 9y ago
  It doesn't indicate how many people knew, only that those who did know were warned.
- cat199 9y ago
  Companies release products which will change the value of their stocks all the time.. this is exactly how such events are managed. What else could be done? lock up employees at work for a week while the market adjusts?
  - rokhayakebe 9y ago
    What else could be done? lock up employees at work for a week while the market adjusts? An email to everyone, a press release, a blog post stating this new feature will be available to everyone in x days at time T. That would be fair game.
    - cevn 9y ago
      OK, so what about the planning period where you talk to your engineers and ask if they can implement it? Or does the CEO just shoot off the email without consulting anyone? The price would shoot up as soon as that email was sent out, so if anyone was consulted about it then they could insider trade.
    - CaptainZapp 9y ago
cohnnton 9y ago
But but but crytocurrency is so useful right?? 1.) It's just like Visa!! Damn it costs me $500 to send $500 2.) It's just like the bank!! Damn another exchange got shut down/frozen. The insiders made out like bandits 3.) It's just like gold! So rare....oh wait, another crytocurrency just came out with 100M unit of supplies. 4.) It's just like dollar! Shoot, coinbase won't allow me to trade it for 3 months! Every country is banning it? It went up 20% then dropped 50% today?! Oh well, who cares. It's for gambling!!!!
sealthedeal 9y ago
I mean lets be honest... If you knew in advance that this was going to happen, who wouldnt have done something like this? You could have made a quick 100k+.
jeffwass 9y ago
Some questions I'm curious about (including other exchanges besides Coinbase too). Do Coinbase employees have to disclose their external crypto-currency trading accounts (as well as for immediate family members) to the internal compliance dept? Is Coinbase employee crypto trading activity subject to pre-approval prior to trade execution? What is their policy regarding disclosure of material non-public information of pending changes/additions to their own exchange?
- jbigelow76 9y ago
  I'm going to guess here that none of what you asked happens and won't until governments force that sort of oversight (if they even can).
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
matchcohnn 9y ago
But but but crytocurrency is so useful right?? 1.) It's just like dollar! Shoot, coinbase won't allow me to trade it for 3 months! Every country is banning it? It went up 20% then dropped 50% today?! 2.) It's just like Visa!! Damn it costs me $500 to send $500 3.) It's just like gold! So rare....oh wait, another crytocurrency just came out with 100M unit of supplies. 4.) It's just like the bank!! Damn another exchange got shut down/frozen. The insiders made out like bandits Oh well, who cares. It's for gambling!!!!
- etr-strike 9y ago
  Cryptocurrency is useful. Bitcoin allows me to be my own bank. The rules of consensus define characteristics of money I believe are important. It allows me to save my money outside of the global financial system, a system I believe is corrupt and manipulated. It allows me to program my money, something never before possible. It allows me to transact freely, with whomever I please. Money is whatever people believe it to be. You may value the USD, and that's entirely your right to do so. I choose value Bitcoin. Everyone is free to use whatever medium of exchange they believe in.
  - matchcohnn 9y ago
    > Bitcoin allows me to be my own bank Thanks suckers for giving me your warm wallet.....time to fake a hack and shut down this sucker. > The rules of consensus define characteristics of money I believe are important My $20 request to get on the blockchain STILL isn't done after 5 weeks!!! > It allows me to save my money outside of the global financial system Oh no my Xcoin crashed 50% today!! > a system I believe is corrupt and manipulated I lost so much money because of this stupid coin....if only someone can save me from the scammers..... > It allows me to program my money, something never before possible In javascript!! secure it is. > It allows me to transact freely, with whomever I please It costs me $500 to send $500......sob
    - etr-strike 9y ago
      > Thanks suckers for giving me your warm wallet.....time to fake a hack and shut down this sucker. Anyone who appreciates the properties of bitcoin is using a cold wallet. The cold wallets available on the market today are quite robust and easy to use. I'd recommend trezor. > My $20 request to get on the blockchain STILL isn't done after 5 weeks Here's a recent transaction I made using Segwit just today. Confirmed within 30min: https://blockchain.info/tx/308da302ef589872809f61282154263a4ded5b488200c343c96ae4c7ff7bfa2e https://blockchain.info/tx/308da302ef589872809f61282154263a4... > Oh no my Xcoin crashed 50% today Bitcoiners are well aware we're still in the price discovery phase. Volatility is understandable. > I lost so much money because of this stupid coin....if only someone can save me from the scammers.... I don't expect anyone to bail me out. Unlike everyone with a 401k and an index fund. > In javascript!! secure it is. You're talking about Ethereum now. Bitcoin isn't programmed in Javascript. > It costs me $500 to send $500......sob Again, my segwit transaction from earlier today shows how much FUD and misinformation you're spewing: https://blockchain.info/tx/308da302ef589872809f61282154263a4ded5b488200c343c96ae4c7ff7bfa2e https://blockchain.info/tx/308da302ef589872809f61282154263a4...
thisisit 9y ago
When Coinbase launched Bitcoin Cash at 17:20 PST (01:20 BST) it was valued at about $3,500 (£2,612) per coin. At the time it suspended it, the company was quoting a price of about $8,500. Trade of Bitcoin Cash was frozen just four minutes after it began on the firm's Global Digital Asset Exchange (Gdax) and existing orders were cancelled. So the prices more than doubled in just 4 minutes. It might not even be a case of insider trading rather very, very thin order book. That is why this happened: https://status.gdax.com/ https://status.gdax.com/ > Update - All BCH markets will remain cleared and offline until 9am PST 12/20/17. At that time, BCH markets will enter post-only mode for a minimum of one hour to allow liquidity to be established. That is to say no matching orders allowed of any kind - limit or market which can suck the liquidity and cause a huge price jump. One might think that Coinbase/GDAX understand liquidity and market making after so many years. But no. Makes you wonder what kind of stuff is going on in other exchanges.
- FLUX-YOU 9y ago
  >People might not like it but if Coinbase/GDAX cannot understand liquidity issues after so many years, it doesn't bode well for cryptocurrencies in general. All of the exchanges are repeating mistakes already learned by the financial industry. It's why they'll always be amateurs until an actual major financial institution devotes serious time/effort/money to it.
- notyourday 9y ago
  Coinbase software does not do basic market unlock?! Is it another company that did not get anyone from Island or InstaNet or Brut?
  - berberous 9y ago
    ELI5 market unlock?
    - notyourday 9y ago
      Book is a set of "I buy X at Y" and "I sell K at P" standing orders ordered by the "best to worst" based on the price: Buy|Sell 1000@5|100@5.1 <-- top of the book/best price 1000@4.9|100@5.5 .. .. .. 100000@1|1000000@10000 <--- bottom of the book, worst price - this is "sucker catcher". If someone clown with more money than brains throws a marker order with the quantity higher than posted by everyone above, it will catch the bottom of the book. At this point no trades are happening because no one is offering to buy at a price that someone else is willing to sell. A market order is an order that does not specify the price. Only action and qualities. This is the only type of an "immediate" order because as long as there is anyone on the other side willing to sell or buy a quantity, it will be executed against the most eligible entry ( top ) of the book. What happens when you do a limit order? The limit order "Buy 5@4.95" will be inserted into the book based on the price so with this order the book will look: 1000@5|100@5.1 5@4.95|100@5.5 1000@4.9| .. .. .. 100000@1|1000000@10000 As you can see still nothing is trading because there's still a spread. What happens if someone does "sell 5000@5" against the book above: 1000@5|5000@5 <--- locked market 5@4.95|100@5.1 1000@4.9|100@5.5 .. .. .. 100000@1|1000000@10000 The market is now locked - there's someone who wants to buy @5 and someone who wants to sell @5. Result of this is automatic market unlock: 5@4.95|4000@5 <--- unlocked market 1000@4.9|100@5.1 .. .. .. 100000@1|1000000@10000 with a single 1000@5 traded so the "new price" of the asset is now @5 What happens when trading is suspended and market "ran away" i.e. significantly moved. Nothing special actually. All non-canceled orders are entered into a queue in an order of entry and are executed based on the book replay as if there was no suspension at all.
executive 9y ago
Is Bitcoin considered a security now?
FLUX-YOU 9y ago
>"I will not hesitate to terminate the employee immediately and take appropriate legal action." What possible legal action can he take? Breach of contract, maybe? There's no laws regarding cryptocurrency insider trading or manipulation as far as I know.
- sp332 9y ago
  If they damaged his business, he might be able to sue for losses?
- mancerayder 9y ago
  There are laws that impact securities. And it's not a leap to suggest that these cryptocurrencies are going to be treated like securities by regulatory bodies. If the SEC argues successfully (which they seem to be leaning towards) that they're securities, a slew of regulations will begin to apply. Simply put, you don't need a law that's SPECIFIC to cryptocurrencies in 2017.
  - FLUX-YOU 9y ago
    Coinbase is in the USA, which makes it fall under the SEC, but Gemini (which all of /r/bitcoin is apparently moving to) isn't -- it's in Canada and the UK. That's what makes regulating bitcoin hard. It soon becomes a diplomatic problem. And there's nothing that these agencies can do to stop the actual wallet-to-wallet transfer short of nuking all miners or knee-capping and getting your private key. So even if you were found guilty, you could conceivably flee the country along with a ton of currency. Regulation is meaningless without the actual threat of enforcement. It means all exchanges can pick up and move to more friendly countries.
    - proofofanalysis 9y ago
      Gemini Trust Company, LLC is a New York trust company. Gemini is regulated by the New York State Department of Financial Services (“NYSDFS”). Source: https://gemini24.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/204734485-Is-Gemini-licensed-and-regulated- https://gemini24.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/204734485-Is-...
sedtrader 9y ago
Regulations are the next logical step here. My best guess is that the red tape will at least dampen a lot of the mania around cryptocurricines and bring people back to reality.
- heurist 9y ago
  I like the volatility :/ I made a couple hundred bucks of lint money yesterday playing the dip. Paid for my dogs' food for the month and a nice night out with my wife and her mother. Even though I have some skin in crypto, at this point I personally don't really care whether it keeps going up or crashes since I've already made back what I put in. But gaming volatility is a nice way to pass the evening...
jerkstate 9y ago
I don't have a lot of sympathy for anyone who got burned by this. Anyone who is trading crypto knows that there is a lot of risk. Also, everyone who was paying attention knew that BCH was coming to Coinbase before the end of the year, since September. If you're acting like this is a big deal, put your big boy pants on and/or stop trading crypto.
avenoir 9y ago
This is the second event involving BCH which is looking very "artificial" for the lack of a better word. About a month ago, BCH started an abrupt up-climb while the prices on BTC started to fall dramatically. BTC recovered soon after by hitting all-time highs while BCH prices fell pretty hard. Now we get these talks of insider trading at Coinbase. I don't have much stake in cryptocurrencies and I actually did not mind the BCH fork, hoping that the 2 cryptos can just co-exist. But from what I'm seeing now this has nothing to do with advancing Bitcoin and is just a money grab by Roger Ver.
- jerkstate 9y ago
  I'd like to see Bitcoin advanced past the congested network and high fees that we see today, and I think Roger Ver does too. He certainly also wants to make money, but what's wrong with that? What I think is objectively bad is a worse product for more money.
- hackermailman 9y ago
  There's also a good criticism of BCH here: https://medium.com/@homakov/weekly-sync-friction-the-most-important-blockchain-security-metric-1042c0c172b7 https://medium.com/@homakov/weekly-sync-friction-the-most-im... Basically it will be too much bandwidth for most users to bother running their own core, meaning increased centralization for BCH and easy way to kill it in the future through some government action or bug.
  - namelost 9y ago
    The thesis of the article is that if bandwidth requirements are too high, then people will stop running full node wallets on their laptops, thus reducing the number of full nodes in the network. In reality, you would have to be insane to store bitcoins with a C++ program permanently connected to and broadcasting your IP address to a p2p network. Now, it may be that many bitcoin nodes are run by insane people who do exactly that, but if the foundation of Bitcoin's security is that its users have no understanding of computer security, then the whole thing is doomed to failure anyway.
rokhayakebe 9y ago
I will not hesitate to terminate the employee Surely if there is wrongdoing it is not the work of one employee.
artursapek 9y ago
The initial BCH trading on GDAX was pitiful. They shut it down really quickly. https://cryptowat.ch/gdax/bchusd/1m https://cryptowat.ch/gdax/bchusd/1m
659087 9y ago
This same pattern seems to repeat immediately preceding any "big announcement" for pretty much every single coin/token out there. It's obvious that insider trading is rampant across the entire cryptocurrency market. I hope Coinbase and their employees' activities are properly investigated at some point. I think they'll find a lot of "interesting" activity going back very far, assuming Coinbase hasn't "lost" or modified records to hide those activities by now.
leesalminen 9y ago
So should I sell the BCH in my wallet right now, before 9AM PST?
- blhack 9y ago
  I think the smartest thing to do is hold it as a hedge against bcash actually usurping bitcoin as the top currency.
  - theprotocol 9y ago
    You're visibly spamming this "bcash" term in every post, which is hurting your credibility.
JustAnotherPat 9y ago
Reminds me of when ZRX was added to Poloniex out of the blue. I very much doubt people with such knowledge wouldn't trade based on it. It's practically impossible to catch anybody short of getting the SEC involved. It's not like Coinbase is keeping track of everyone's wallets or has any ability to get info from other exchanges. I also think it's funny that people are complaining about this. Isn't this part of the appeal of crypto trading? That the government doesn't 'level' the playing field?
pducks32 9y ago
Did anyone not expect this? For example, I believe they may add Ripple next so I have made moves into Ripple knowing the price will spike if they add support. What's to prevent Coinbase employees to do the same?
- mancerayder 9y ago
  There are specific timing issues, specific spikes. Broad-based knowledge doesn't cause super spikes of pump (and possibly dump).
dustingetz 9y ago
I watched this happen live. There was a very obvious trading software malfunction. Here's what I watched happen. People could place orders before trading started. I was watching BCH/USD and BCH/BTC which had a fixed price, $3100 USD and 3.00 BTC respectively. BCH/USD had a huge amount of buy pressure (people buying BCH with cash); BCH/BTC had a huge amount of sell pressure (people dumping the airdrop). Only BCH/USD went live; BCH/BTC remained paused. (That was weird, I thought it looked like a human somewhere hit enter too soon, but apparently it was intended) Once trading started (BCH/USD only), people couldn't place new sell orders. The unlimited buys cleared, including the guy on reddit whose order was "Buy $100000 USD of BTC at market price", which was filled at 6k and then he was unable to place a sell at 9k. Apparently placing buys without limits is common because unlimited buys are filled before limited ones are. Since you couldn't place a new sell; the price was not bounded; the book cleared and everything was stuck at 9.5k for a couple minutes. There was a little bit of trades, not sure if it was only people with existing orders that were glitched or if maybe some people weren't glitched, maybe all the activity was orders placed before trading opened. They realized the issue and paused trading; orders began to accumulate again roughly around here; here's a screenshot of the orders accumulating https://i.imgur.com/0NTyYXx.png https://i.imgur.com/0NTyYXx.png There is incredible sell pressure here, the price was obviously out of whack with actual supply/demand. (MY SPECULATION) Since there was never a functioning market I'd expect Coinbase to rewind all the trades which is what it looks like they are doing. I might have gotten some of the details wrong, I am just a detached layperson learning about finance who happened to see this go down. Sorry reddit, no consipiracy here. But none of those posts in r/bitcoin are actual humans anyway, it's all fake bots and a couple poor suckers who don't realize they're arguing with a content farm. Here's some required reading about the bitcoin information manipulation shitshow. https://np.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/6rxw7k/informative_btc_vs_bch_articles/dl8v4lp/?st=jaotbt8m&sh=222ce783 https://np.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/6rxw7k/infor... TLDR: Nothing is real, everything is fake news, you think it can't possibly be that bad? it's actually worse than that.
- mancerayder 9y ago
  Interesting stuff, nice write-up! I tried to buy it last night and this morning for the ~3K price, and I was blocked by Coinbase. Now it's past the 4K point. Maybe there's no grand conspiracy, but there's something plasticy about the price movement combined with blocking of new buys at the lower prices (on Coinbase).
blhack 9y ago
Here's the stickiest thing about this entire thing to me: the name. Roger Ver (one of the people behind bcash) has said repeatedly that he believes that his fork deserves the name "Bitcoin" and that it is the "real" bitcoin. It seems obvious that the intent here is to confuse people. This, to me, seems like blatant fraud. It is concerning to me that coinbase would continue to allow this market confusion to build by listing this under the name "bitcoin cash". Things like this make me long for better regulation in this space. Full disclosure: I say this as somebody who holds both bitcoin and bcash in nearly equal amounts. I mean to say that I don't really have a dog in this fight.
- kbwt 9y ago
  He's not entirely wrong though. What defines the real Bitcoin: The network's hash rate? The developers behind the Qt wallet? Adoption/usage?
  - blhack 9y ago
    What defines anything? You could spend a lifetime on this problem. Bitcoin has a continuity in price, in name, in code, in software, all the way back to when people first started talking about it in 2009. The idea that bcash is and always has been bitcoin is betrayed by the simple fact that there isn't a continuity in price back to the genesis.
    - kbwt 9y ago
      And that continuity can split and move back-and-forth between forks, as they gain or lose support. The sum of XBT+BCH price on exchanges fluctuated less than either coin alone.
      - blhack 9y ago
        Are you trying to say that the price of bitcoin crashed from ~$3000 to ~$300 immediately on August 1st 2017, and that coincidentally at the same time, a brand new asset appeared that had the same price that bitcoin did a few seconds earlier? That's just absolutely absurd.
mancerayder 9y ago
Why is the name Blockstream constantly popping up as a source of blame for BTC's issues? That seems to be a theme in the last day or two by the BCH proponents.
- toomim 9y ago
  Here's a historical explanation: https://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/6rxw7k/informative_btc_vs_bch_articles/dl8v4lp/ https://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/6rxw7k/info...
  - mancerayder 9y ago
    I spent a bit of time reading this but I have to be honest, it's hard to know how true the post is, and the nuances are so specific it's not that interesting to someone not on one of those subreddits or dev team. What I got out of it: several groups of humans splintered. One side is accused of trying to sabotage the other. The other side denies it. I didn't pick up much of BTH's ramifactions from reading that, though. I guess you posted it to suggest that the increased blocksize isn't in Blockstream's best interests, and perhaps they played a role in militating against it.
    - toomim 9y ago
      Put simply: Bitcoin has split into two camps. Big blockers and small blockers. Blockstream is a small block company. Bitcoin Cash is a big block technology. So Bitcoin Cash and Blockstream are politically opposed.
- makomk 9y ago
  Blockstream is a company developing blockchain technologies that employs some of the Bitcoin Core developers and the main developer of the Lightning Network for off-chain transaction channels. (Bitcoin Core is the software usually used to run full Bitcoin nodes; it's basically Satoshi's original client, renamed to clarify that users don't have to choose it as their wallet back when running a full node started to become user-unfriendly.) It's become associated with a conspiracy theory that claims the entire Bitcoin Core development community, including the developers not employed by them, is plotting with the banking industry to sabotage on-chain Bitcoin in order to force everyone to use banks to transfer Bitcoins, basically.
dahdum 9y ago
Watching this all go down, I don't see why it would be insider trading. They opened their retail side (Coinbase) at the same time as their exchange (GDAX) and gave minutes notice before going live. There was about 0% chance there would be enough liquidity on the exchange to support a dual launch, so the price skyrocketed. There wasn't time to deposit enough BCH to give liquidity either. I don't care about traders making bad moves on GDAX, but to screw their retail clients so much is not cool.
gizmodo59 9y ago
Some people do know that its going to be listed. https://www.reddit.com/r/CoinBase/comments/7kfbjj/will_coinbase_be_getting_xrp_ripple/ https://www.reddit.com/r/CoinBase/comments/7kfbjj/will_coinb... The user mukiwa2 said "Bitcoin Cash coming in the next few days!!" 2 days back in that thread and he even joked saying he knew an employee in Coinbase. That response has since been deleted. I was just talking to my friend about this. Here is the snapshot: https://imgur.com/a/cLlp7 https://imgur.com/a/cLlp7
- shlomok 9y ago
  Whole account was deleted. Archived here: https://web.archive.org/web/20171220235902/https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:oQu2oxqamNMJ:https://www.reddit.com/user/mukiwa2+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us https://web.archive.org/web/20171220235902/https://webcache....
- knowaveragejoe 9y ago
  Wasn't this known well in advance? I had someone tell me that Coinbase was introducing BCH over a month ago and he's not connected in any way to the company. The only way he could have known is if this was public knowledge up until this point.

182 points by warp 9y ago

0xADADA 9y ago

It was so apparent if you watched just a few exchanges.

zarita_existe 9y ago

Cryptocoins are all a big fraud - fake money to buy fake drugs. This comes at no surprise.

deadmetheny 9y ago
I assure you the drugs are real.
etr-strike 9y ago
Bitcoin is as real as the USD. At least with Bitcoin you know what the properties of your currency are. The Federal Reserve doesn't even publish the amount of M3 money anymore: https://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/h6/discm3.htm https://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/h6/discm3.htm If that doesn't give you pause, I don't know what will.
- victor106 9y ago
  > The Federal Reserve doesn't even publish the amount of M3 money anymore: except they do. See below. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MABMM301USA657S https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MABMM301USA657S I am not anti-crypto. I think in the future most transactions would move there. But the state of the current crypto's won't get us there. If you close your eyes for a min and just think about the .com bust that is exactly what is happening here. I know of companies during that time that had nothing to do with IT and they would just announce that they are investing in IT and there stocks would triple. Read below for similar crypto news. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-18/fintech-mircocap-stock-jumps-2-400-after-touting-crypto-link https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-18/fintech-m...
  - etr-strike 9y ago
    Hmm I'm confused in that case. Did the Fed start publishing it again? The link I provided is to the official Federal Reserve website clearly stating they are discontinuing the publication of M3.
  - mitchellberry 9y ago
    > except they do. See below. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MABMM301USA657S https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MABMM301USA657S > Source: Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development St Louis fed is publishing third party estimates there, official reporting stopped in 2007.
    - victor106 9y ago
      See this https://mises.org/library/death-m3-fifth-anniversary https://mises.org/library/death-m3-fifth-anniversary And https://www.garynorth.com/public/6538.cfm https://www.garynorth.com/public/6538.cfm TLDR: The end of the first link provides a response from Bernanke which says that the public would still have access to the data but the fed won’t aggregate it and report it. What the OECD does is the aggregation and reporting based on the raw fed data. The second link provides why the M3 was useless to begin with.
- adrianN 9y ago
  You can't pay your taxes in Bitcoin.
  - down 9y ago
    as you can't pay them with gold..
    - adrianN 9y ago
      Gold doesn't claim to be a currency just as real as the Dollar.
    - saalweachter 9y ago
      You know, I'm willing to bet if you showed up at your local tax collector's with a large enough chunk of gold, they'd work with you.
      - tlholaday 9y ago
        Yes, but if you showed up in Tax Court with a chunk of gold, you would risk being held in contempt.
        AskewEgret 9y ago
        A 1-ounce gold coin issued by the US Mint is legal tender to the tune of $50. It says so right on the coin. If you want to pay your taxes using gold coins, go right ahead. They will gladly accept it.
  - 55555 9y ago
    What? That doesn't even make any sense. You can sell the bitcoin for USD then pay your taxes. Just like you can't pay your taxes with 1 billion dollars worth of Facebook stock or gold. The argument you are looking for is: "USD has value BECAUSE the state makes you pay your taxes in it." Notice that that argument does not end with, "and this is the only way a commodity or currency can have value." Because there are different reasons that different things have value and more than one thing has value. Your comment is intellectually lazy and you don't have to believe in crypto to come to this conclusion.
- lurr 9y ago
  > Bitcoin is as real as the USD Not really. The USD is as real as the US government. If the US government collapses I'm not going to trust Bitcoin to save me.
altocr 9y ago
My speedmaster bought in bitcoins is pretty real and beautiful !

CaptainZapp 9y ago

"Brian Armstrong responded that he had repeatedly warned his staff not to disclose its launch plans to family or friends or to trade in the digital asset themselves." So the whole staff new about this move, from which it is to be expected to move the market when published? Charitably put, that's naive.

sp332 9y ago
He doesn't have to believe it. It still shifts liability away from himself.
Gargoyle 9y ago
It doesn't indicate how many people knew, only that those who did know were warned.
cat199 9y ago
Companies release products which will change the value of their stocks all the time.. this is exactly how such events are managed. What else could be done? lock up employees at work for a week while the market adjusts?
- rokhayakebe 9y ago
  What else could be done? lock up employees at work for a week while the market adjusts? An email to everyone, a press release, a blog post stating this new feature will be available to everyone in x days at time T. That would be fair game.
  - cevn 9y ago
    OK, so what about the planning period where you talk to your engineers and ask if they can implement it? Or does the CEO just shoot off the email without consulting anyone? The price would shoot up as soon as that email was sent out, so if anyone was consulted about it then they could insider trade.
  - CaptainZapp 9y ago

cohnnton 9y ago

But but but crytocurrency is so useful right?? 1.) It's just like Visa!! Damn it costs me $500 to send $500 2.) It's just like the bank!! Damn another exchange got shut down/frozen. The insiders made out like bandits 3.) It's just like gold! So rare....oh wait, another crytocurrency just came out with 100M unit of supplies. 4.) It's just like dollar! Shoot, coinbase won't allow me to trade it for 3 months! Every country is banning it? It went up 20% then dropped 50% today?! Oh well, who cares. It's for gambling!!!!

sealthedeal 9y ago

I mean lets be honest... If you knew in advance that this was going to happen, who wouldnt have done something like this? You could have made a quick 100k+.

jeffwass 9y ago

Some questions I'm curious about (including other exchanges besides Coinbase too). Do Coinbase employees have to disclose their external crypto-currency trading accounts (as well as for immediate family members) to the internal compliance dept? Is Coinbase employee crypto trading activity subject to pre-approval prior to trade execution? What is their policy regarding disclosure of material non-public information of pending changes/additions to their own exchange?

jbigelow76 9y ago
I'm going to guess here that none of what you asked happens and won't until governments force that sort of oversight (if they even can).

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

matchcohnn 9y ago

But but but crytocurrency is so useful right?? 1.) It's just like dollar! Shoot, coinbase won't allow me to trade it for 3 months! Every country is banning it? It went up 20% then dropped 50% today?! 2.) It's just like Visa!! Damn it costs me $500 to send $500 3.) It's just like gold! So rare....oh wait, another crytocurrency just came out with 100M unit of supplies. 4.) It's just like the bank!! Damn another exchange got shut down/frozen. The insiders made out like bandits Oh well, who cares. It's for gambling!!!!

etr-strike 9y ago
Cryptocurrency is useful. Bitcoin allows me to be my own bank. The rules of consensus define characteristics of money I believe are important. It allows me to save my money outside of the global financial system, a system I believe is corrupt and manipulated. It allows me to program my money, something never before possible. It allows me to transact freely, with whomever I please. Money is whatever people believe it to be. You may value the USD, and that's entirely your right to do so. I choose value Bitcoin. Everyone is free to use whatever medium of exchange they believe in.
- matchcohnn 9y ago
  > Bitcoin allows me to be my own bank Thanks suckers for giving me your warm wallet.....time to fake a hack and shut down this sucker. > The rules of consensus define characteristics of money I believe are important My $20 request to get on the blockchain STILL isn't done after 5 weeks!!! > It allows me to save my money outside of the global financial system Oh no my Xcoin crashed 50% today!! > a system I believe is corrupt and manipulated I lost so much money because of this stupid coin....if only someone can save me from the scammers..... > It allows me to program my money, something never before possible In javascript!! secure it is. > It allows me to transact freely, with whomever I please It costs me $500 to send $500......sob
  - etr-strike 9y ago
    > Thanks suckers for giving me your warm wallet.....time to fake a hack and shut down this sucker. Anyone who appreciates the properties of bitcoin is using a cold wallet. The cold wallets available on the market today are quite robust and easy to use. I'd recommend trezor. > My $20 request to get on the blockchain STILL isn't done after 5 weeks Here's a recent transaction I made using Segwit just today. Confirmed within 30min: https://blockchain.info/tx/308da302ef589872809f61282154263a4ded5b488200c343c96ae4c7ff7bfa2e https://blockchain.info/tx/308da302ef589872809f61282154263a4... > Oh no my Xcoin crashed 50% today Bitcoiners are well aware we're still in the price discovery phase. Volatility is understandable. > I lost so much money because of this stupid coin....if only someone can save me from the scammers.... I don't expect anyone to bail me out. Unlike everyone with a 401k and an index fund. > In javascript!! secure it is. You're talking about Ethereum now. Bitcoin isn't programmed in Javascript. > It costs me $500 to send $500......sob Again, my segwit transaction from earlier today shows how much FUD and misinformation you're spewing: https://blockchain.info/tx/308da302ef589872809f61282154263a4ded5b488200c343c96ae4c7ff7bfa2e https://blockchain.info/tx/308da302ef589872809f61282154263a4...

thisisit 9y ago

When Coinbase launched Bitcoin Cash at 17:20 PST (01:20 BST) it was valued at about $3,500 (£2,612) per coin. At the time it suspended it, the company was quoting a price of about $8,500. Trade of Bitcoin Cash was frozen just four minutes after it began on the firm's Global Digital Asset Exchange (Gdax) and existing orders were cancelled. So the prices more than doubled in just 4 minutes. It might not even be a case of insider trading rather very, very thin order book. That is why this happened: https://status.gdax.com/ https://status.gdax.com/ > Update - All BCH markets will remain cleared and offline until 9am PST 12/20/17. At that time, BCH markets will enter post-only mode for a minimum of one hour to allow liquidity to be established. That is to say no matching orders allowed of any kind - limit or market which can suck the liquidity and cause a huge price jump. One might think that Coinbase/GDAX understand liquidity and market making after so many years. But no. Makes you wonder what kind of stuff is going on in other exchanges.

FLUX-YOU 9y ago
>People might not like it but if Coinbase/GDAX cannot understand liquidity issues after so many years, it doesn't bode well for cryptocurrencies in general. All of the exchanges are repeating mistakes already learned by the financial industry. It's why they'll always be amateurs until an actual major financial institution devotes serious time/effort/money to it.
notyourday 9y ago
Coinbase software does not do basic market unlock?! Is it another company that did not get anyone from Island or InstaNet or Brut?
- berberous 9y ago
  ELI5 market unlock?
  - notyourday 9y ago
    Book is a set of "I buy X at Y" and "I sell K at P" standing orders ordered by the "best to worst" based on the price: Buy|Sell 1000@5|100@5.1 <-- top of the book/best price 1000@4.9|100@5.5 .. .. .. 100000@1|1000000@10000 <--- bottom of the book, worst price - this is "sucker catcher". If someone clown with more money than brains throws a marker order with the quantity higher than posted by everyone above, it will catch the bottom of the book. At this point no trades are happening because no one is offering to buy at a price that someone else is willing to sell. A market order is an order that does not specify the price. Only action and qualities. This is the only type of an "immediate" order because as long as there is anyone on the other side willing to sell or buy a quantity, it will be executed against the most eligible entry ( top ) of the book. What happens when you do a limit order? The limit order "Buy 5@4.95" will be inserted into the book based on the price so with this order the book will look: 1000@5|100@5.1 5@4.95|100@5.5 1000@4.9| .. .. .. 100000@1|1000000@10000 As you can see still nothing is trading because there's still a spread. What happens if someone does "sell 5000@5" against the book above: 1000@5|5000@5 <--- locked market 5@4.95|100@5.1 1000@4.9|100@5.5 .. .. .. 100000@1|1000000@10000 The market is now locked - there's someone who wants to buy @5 and someone who wants to sell @5. Result of this is automatic market unlock: 5@4.95|4000@5 <--- unlocked market 1000@4.9|100@5.1 .. .. .. 100000@1|1000000@10000 with a single 1000@5 traded so the "new price" of the asset is now @5 What happens when trading is suspended and market "ran away" i.e. significantly moved. Nothing special actually. All non-canceled orders are entered into a queue in an order of entry and are executed based on the book replay as if there was no suspension at all.

executive 9y ago

Is Bitcoin considered a security now?

FLUX-YOU 9y ago

>"I will not hesitate to terminate the employee immediately and take appropriate legal action." What possible legal action can he take? Breach of contract, maybe? There's no laws regarding cryptocurrency insider trading or manipulation as far as I know.

sp332 9y ago
If they damaged his business, he might be able to sue for losses?
mancerayder 9y ago
There are laws that impact securities. And it's not a leap to suggest that these cryptocurrencies are going to be treated like securities by regulatory bodies. If the SEC argues successfully (which they seem to be leaning towards) that they're securities, a slew of regulations will begin to apply. Simply put, you don't need a law that's SPECIFIC to cryptocurrencies in 2017.
- FLUX-YOU 9y ago
  Coinbase is in the USA, which makes it fall under the SEC, but Gemini (which all of /r/bitcoin is apparently moving to) isn't -- it's in Canada and the UK. That's what makes regulating bitcoin hard. It soon becomes a diplomatic problem. And there's nothing that these agencies can do to stop the actual wallet-to-wallet transfer short of nuking all miners or knee-capping and getting your private key. So even if you were found guilty, you could conceivably flee the country along with a ton of currency. Regulation is meaningless without the actual threat of enforcement. It means all exchanges can pick up and move to more friendly countries.
  - proofofanalysis 9y ago
    Gemini Trust Company, LLC is a New York trust company. Gemini is regulated by the New York State Department of Financial Services (“NYSDFS”). Source: https://gemini24.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/204734485-Is-Gemini-licensed-and-regulated- https://gemini24.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/204734485-Is-...

sedtrader 9y ago

Regulations are the next logical step here. My best guess is that the red tape will at least dampen a lot of the mania around cryptocurricines and bring people back to reality.

heurist 9y ago
I like the volatility :/ I made a couple hundred bucks of lint money yesterday playing the dip. Paid for my dogs' food for the month and a nice night out with my wife and her mother. Even though I have some skin in crypto, at this point I personally don't really care whether it keeps going up or crashes since I've already made back what I put in. But gaming volatility is a nice way to pass the evening...

jerkstate 9y ago

I don't have a lot of sympathy for anyone who got burned by this. Anyone who is trading crypto knows that there is a lot of risk. Also, everyone who was paying attention knew that BCH was coming to Coinbase before the end of the year, since September. If you're acting like this is a big deal, put your big boy pants on and/or stop trading crypto.

avenoir 9y ago

This is the second event involving BCH which is looking very "artificial" for the lack of a better word. About a month ago, BCH started an abrupt up-climb while the prices on BTC started to fall dramatically. BTC recovered soon after by hitting all-time highs while BCH prices fell pretty hard. Now we get these talks of insider trading at Coinbase. I don't have much stake in cryptocurrencies and I actually did not mind the BCH fork, hoping that the 2 cryptos can just co-exist. But from what I'm seeing now this has nothing to do with advancing Bitcoin and is just a money grab by Roger Ver.

jerkstate 9y ago
I'd like to see Bitcoin advanced past the congested network and high fees that we see today, and I think Roger Ver does too. He certainly also wants to make money, but what's wrong with that? What I think is objectively bad is a worse product for more money.
hackermailman 9y ago
There's also a good criticism of BCH here: https://medium.com/@homakov/weekly-sync-friction-the-most-important-blockchain-security-metric-1042c0c172b7 https://medium.com/@homakov/weekly-sync-friction-the-most-im... Basically it will be too much bandwidth for most users to bother running their own core, meaning increased centralization for BCH and easy way to kill it in the future through some government action or bug.
- namelost 9y ago
  The thesis of the article is that if bandwidth requirements are too high, then people will stop running full node wallets on their laptops, thus reducing the number of full nodes in the network. In reality, you would have to be insane to store bitcoins with a C++ program permanently connected to and broadcasting your IP address to a p2p network. Now, it may be that many bitcoin nodes are run by insane people who do exactly that, but if the foundation of Bitcoin's security is that its users have no understanding of computer security, then the whole thing is doomed to failure anyway.

rokhayakebe 9y ago

I will not hesitate to terminate the employee Surely if there is wrongdoing it is not the work of one employee.

artursapek 9y ago

The initial BCH trading on GDAX was pitiful. They shut it down really quickly. https://cryptowat.ch/gdax/bchusd/1m https://cryptowat.ch/gdax/bchusd/1m

659087 9y ago

This same pattern seems to repeat immediately preceding any "big announcement" for pretty much every single coin/token out there. It's obvious that insider trading is rampant across the entire cryptocurrency market. I hope Coinbase and their employees' activities are properly investigated at some point. I think they'll find a lot of "interesting" activity going back very far, assuming Coinbase hasn't "lost" or modified records to hide those activities by now.

leesalminen 9y ago

So should I sell the BCH in my wallet right now, before 9AM PST?

blhack 9y ago
I think the smartest thing to do is hold it as a hedge against bcash actually usurping bitcoin as the top currency.
- theprotocol 9y ago
  You're visibly spamming this "bcash" term in every post, which is hurting your credibility.

JustAnotherPat 9y ago

Reminds me of when ZRX was added to Poloniex out of the blue. I very much doubt people with such knowledge wouldn't trade based on it. It's practically impossible to catch anybody short of getting the SEC involved. It's not like Coinbase is keeping track of everyone's wallets or has any ability to get info from other exchanges. I also think it's funny that people are complaining about this. Isn't this part of the appeal of crypto trading? That the government doesn't 'level' the playing field?

pducks32 9y ago

Did anyone not expect this? For example, I believe they may add Ripple next so I have made moves into Ripple knowing the price will spike if they add support. What's to prevent Coinbase employees to do the same?

mancerayder 9y ago
There are specific timing issues, specific spikes. Broad-based knowledge doesn't cause super spikes of pump (and possibly dump).

dustingetz 9y ago

I watched this happen live. There was a very obvious trading software malfunction. Here's what I watched happen. People could place orders before trading started. I was watching BCH/USD and BCH/BTC which had a fixed price, $3100 USD and 3.00 BTC respectively. BCH/USD had a huge amount of buy pressure (people buying BCH with cash); BCH/BTC had a huge amount of sell pressure (people dumping the airdrop). Only BCH/USD went live; BCH/BTC remained paused. (That was weird, I thought it looked like a human somewhere hit enter too soon, but apparently it was intended) Once trading started (BCH/USD only), people couldn't place new sell orders. The unlimited buys cleared, including the guy on reddit whose order was "Buy $100000 USD of BTC at market price", which was filled at 6k and then he was unable to place a sell at 9k. Apparently placing buys without limits is common because unlimited buys are filled before limited ones are. Since you couldn't place a new sell; the price was not bounded; the book cleared and everything was stuck at 9.5k for a couple minutes. There was a little bit of trades, not sure if it was only people with existing orders that were glitched or if maybe some people weren't glitched, maybe all the activity was orders placed before trading opened. They realized the issue and paused trading; orders began to accumulate again roughly around here; here's a screenshot of the orders accumulating https://i.imgur.com/0NTyYXx.png https://i.imgur.com/0NTyYXx.png There is incredible sell pressure here, the price was obviously out of whack with actual supply/demand. (MY SPECULATION) Since there was never a functioning market I'd expect Coinbase to rewind all the trades which is what it looks like they are doing. I might have gotten some of the details wrong, I am just a detached layperson learning about finance who happened to see this go down. Sorry reddit, no consipiracy here. But none of those posts in r/bitcoin are actual humans anyway, it's all fake bots and a couple poor suckers who don't realize they're arguing with a content farm. Here's some required reading about the bitcoin information manipulation shitshow. https://np.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/6rxw7k/informative_btc_vs_bch_articles/dl8v4lp/?st=jaotbt8m&sh=222ce783 https://np.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/6rxw7k/infor... TLDR: Nothing is real, everything is fake news, you think it can't possibly be that bad? it's actually worse than that.

mancerayder 9y ago
Interesting stuff, nice write-up! I tried to buy it last night and this morning for the ~3K price, and I was blocked by Coinbase. Now it's past the 4K point. Maybe there's no grand conspiracy, but there's something plasticy about the price movement combined with blocking of new buys at the lower prices (on Coinbase).

blhack 9y ago

Here's the stickiest thing about this entire thing to me: the name. Roger Ver (one of the people behind bcash) has said repeatedly that he believes that his fork deserves the name "Bitcoin" and that it is the "real" bitcoin. It seems obvious that the intent here is to confuse people. This, to me, seems like blatant fraud. It is concerning to me that coinbase would continue to allow this market confusion to build by listing this under the name "bitcoin cash". Things like this make me long for better regulation in this space. Full disclosure: I say this as somebody who holds both bitcoin and bcash in nearly equal amounts. I mean to say that I don't really have a dog in this fight.

kbwt 9y ago
He's not entirely wrong though. What defines the real Bitcoin: The network's hash rate? The developers behind the Qt wallet? Adoption/usage?
- blhack 9y ago
  What defines anything? You could spend a lifetime on this problem. Bitcoin has a continuity in price, in name, in code, in software, all the way back to when people first started talking about it in 2009. The idea that bcash is and always has been bitcoin is betrayed by the simple fact that there isn't a continuity in price back to the genesis.
  - kbwt 9y ago
    And that continuity can split and move back-and-forth between forks, as they gain or lose support. The sum of XBT+BCH price on exchanges fluctuated less than either coin alone.
    - blhack 9y ago
      Are you trying to say that the price of bitcoin crashed from ~$3000 to ~$300 immediately on August 1st 2017, and that coincidentally at the same time, a brand new asset appeared that had the same price that bitcoin did a few seconds earlier? That's just absolutely absurd.

mancerayder 9y ago

Why is the name Blockstream constantly popping up as a source of blame for BTC's issues? That seems to be a theme in the last day or two by the BCH proponents.

toomim 9y ago
Here's a historical explanation: https://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/6rxw7k/informative_btc_vs_bch_articles/dl8v4lp/ https://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/6rxw7k/info...
- mancerayder 9y ago
  I spent a bit of time reading this but I have to be honest, it's hard to know how true the post is, and the nuances are so specific it's not that interesting to someone not on one of those subreddits or dev team. What I got out of it: several groups of humans splintered. One side is accused of trying to sabotage the other. The other side denies it. I didn't pick up much of BTH's ramifactions from reading that, though. I guess you posted it to suggest that the increased blocksize isn't in Blockstream's best interests, and perhaps they played a role in militating against it.
  - toomim 9y ago
    Put simply: Bitcoin has split into two camps. Big blockers and small blockers. Blockstream is a small block company. Bitcoin Cash is a big block technology. So Bitcoin Cash and Blockstream are politically opposed.
makomk 9y ago
Blockstream is a company developing blockchain technologies that employs some of the Bitcoin Core developers and the main developer of the Lightning Network for off-chain transaction channels. (Bitcoin Core is the software usually used to run full Bitcoin nodes; it's basically Satoshi's original client, renamed to clarify that users don't have to choose it as their wallet back when running a full node started to become user-unfriendly.) It's become associated with a conspiracy theory that claims the entire Bitcoin Core development community, including the developers not employed by them, is plotting with the banking industry to sabotage on-chain Bitcoin in order to force everyone to use banks to transfer Bitcoins, basically.

dahdum 9y ago

Watching this all go down, I don't see why it would be insider trading. They opened their retail side (Coinbase) at the same time as their exchange (GDAX) and gave minutes notice before going live. There was about 0% chance there would be enough liquidity on the exchange to support a dual launch, so the price skyrocketed. There wasn't time to deposit enough BCH to give liquidity either. I don't care about traders making bad moves on GDAX, but to screw their retail clients so much is not cool.

gizmodo59 9y ago

Some people do know that its going to be listed. https://www.reddit.com/r/CoinBase/comments/7kfbjj/will_coinbase_be_getting_xrp_ripple/ https://www.reddit.com/r/CoinBase/comments/7kfbjj/will_coinb... The user mukiwa2 said "Bitcoin Cash coming in the next few days!!" 2 days back in that thread and he even joked saying he knew an employee in Coinbase. That response has since been deleted. I was just talking to my friend about this. Here is the snapshot: https://imgur.com/a/cLlp7 https://imgur.com/a/cLlp7

shlomok 9y ago
Whole account was deleted. Archived here: https://web.archive.org/web/20171220235902/https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:oQu2oxqamNMJ:https://www.reddit.com/user/mukiwa2+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us https://web.archive.org/web/20171220235902/https://webcache....
knowaveragejoe 9y ago
Wasn't this known well in advance? I had someone tell me that Coinbase was introducing BCH over a month ago and he's not connected in any way to the company. The only way he could have known is if this was public knowledge up until this point.