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Does the value of XMR mined exceed the electricity consumed by the app? There are already malicious websites using hidden windows to mine XMR, but to the benef

Does the value of XMR mined exceed the electricity consumed by the app? There are already malicious websites using hidden windows to mine XMR, but to the benefit of the person in control of the site rather than the people who pay the electricity bills: https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/11/sneakier-more-persistent-drive-by-cryptomining-comes-to-a-browser-near-you/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/11/sneak...

lojack 9y ago
> Does the value of XMR mined exceed the electricity consumed by the app? Extremely unlikely. Even GPU mining with good hardware cuts it close with energy consumption depending on your energy costs.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- icelancer 9y ago
  > Extremely unlikely. Even GPU mining with good hardware cuts it close with energy consumption depending on your energy costs. What? This is seriously wrong. ROI fluctuates between 200-600% for XMR and its derivatives.
  - lojack 9y ago
    I don’t currently mine, but everything I’ve been reading has roughly 2/3rds of your profit going towards electricity. Regardless, I find it hard to believe CPU mining using JavaScript in a browser is even remotely energy efficient.
    - icelancer 9y ago
      At 12c/kwh with a Radeon RX Vega56 consuming 200W and a hashrate of 2000 h/s, mining XMR currently yields has a 61% profit margin; it's 79% ROI if you are getting free power. This is not the most power efficient setup (as I said, there are far, far more efficient cards, especially when run in tandem) but it is the most sought-after card due to density. Regardless, it's exceptionally profitable to mine if you already own the card. JS mining only takes a slight performance hit compared to native, actually; asm.js and others provide very good results since the problem is memory-hard, not computationally bound. It is definitely energy efficient and worth doing if all you care about is ROI vs. marginal utility rates in most American cities (perhaps not some of California). Nicehash built their business model around exactly that, which is the real reason people like libraries like the OP's - it's a distributed way to get people mining, not for the individual person themselves.
      - bradoyler 9y ago
        Radeon Vega64 is insane. Sold out everywhere I’ve seen.
        icelancer 9y ago
        The 64s are occasionally available, the 56s, no shot. Glad I got 7 close to MSRP when I did. There are actually more power efficient alternatives that hash better per dollar assuming that the price of a Vega is $600+, which it easily is. Just requires some heavy lifting.
      - lojack 9y ago
        In that case, thanks for the correction. I suppose I made my original comment with a lot of assumptions that may be less true than I would have thought.
        icelancer 9y ago
        No problem, thanks for being open minded. It won't last forever... probably. However, this is a lot different than BTC mining due to memory hardness.
- lawn 9y ago
  Actually both GPU and CPU mining is generally profitable compared to the energy costs, of course depending on your rate. But then there's the cost of the hardware which may be difficult to recoupe.
- pfisch 9y ago
  This is just not true for basically all of 2017 with the rate at which the value of all the coins has been rising. Especially if it is your desktop on off hours so the hardware is essentially a sunk cost.
wyldfire 9y ago
In general, any PoW-cryptocoin quickly reaches an equilibrium with its costs. Changes in the difficulty, changes in the exchange rate (usually as a function of changing demand), changes in availability of current/next-generation mining hardware will destabilize this equilibrium temporarily. The answer to the question "should I mine [coin x]" in order to make money is usually "no". You should mine that coin because you care about the network's security and decentralization or not at all. If you have access to next-generation mining hardware or cheaper-than-normal electricity, you might have a case for "yes". Or, as you indicate, if you have a malicious way to run the miner or mostly-malicious-"not-too-clearly-disclosed-to-end-user", that is almost certain to make money.
- joshschreuder 9y ago
  That's not necessarily true, assuming you believe the value of what you're mining will at some point in the future be worth more than it is now. I mined some Ethereum earlier in the year, and was making around $6 AUD a day. I stopped as I was unhappy with the effects of proof of work on electricity supply and the wear on my GPU, but the amount I mined at current market price is worth around 3x that, making it quite a bit more profitable. Of course, if you believe the value will increase at some future point you're most likely better off just buying the coin and hodling it :)
  - IanCal 9y ago
    > Of course, if you believe the value will increase at some future point you're most likely better off just buying the coin and hodling it :) I think this is the key point. If it costs more in electricity than the current value it is cheaper and easier to just buy some.
  - vitalus 9y ago
    If the cost exceeds the value of what you're mining, you're always better off putting that money directly into purchasing the cryptocoin instead. Option 1: Spend $10 to mine $5 worth of BTC Option 2: Spend $10 to obtain $10 worth of BTC If the market goes up, you are better served by the latter option.
UncleEntity 9y ago
> Does the value of XMR mined exceed the electricity consumed by the app? There seems to be a bit of disagreement over this. Let me ask it another way, would it be worthwhile for someone too lazy to replace the dead battery in their thermostat to mine some coins to add a little heat to their apartment and make a couple bucks in the process?
phoyd 9y ago
>Does the value of XMR mined exceed the electricity consumed by the app? Yes: https://whattomine.com/coins https://whattomine.com/coins Actually, I'm using a computer mining Moneros at 2000H/s in a closed room to help dry a damp wall. The rig converts 250W Power to heat (for the wall) and produces Moneros worth $200/m - leaving me $100 after paying for electricity the computer and the air dehumidifier consumed.
- icelancer 9y ago
  >Moneros worth $200/m Assuming m = Monero I think you will be in for a good surprise. https://www.tradingview.com/symbols/XMRUSD/ https://www.tradingview.com/symbols/XMRUSD/
  - skellera 9y ago
    I think he means per month.

lojack 9y ago

> Does the value of XMR mined exceed the electricity consumed by the app? Extremely unlikely. Even GPU mining with good hardware cuts it close with energy consumption depending on your energy costs.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
icelancer 9y ago
> Extremely unlikely. Even GPU mining with good hardware cuts it close with energy consumption depending on your energy costs. What? This is seriously wrong. ROI fluctuates between 200-600% for XMR and its derivatives.
- lojack 9y ago
  I don’t currently mine, but everything I’ve been reading has roughly 2/3rds of your profit going towards electricity. Regardless, I find it hard to believe CPU mining using JavaScript in a browser is even remotely energy efficient.
  - icelancer 9y ago
    At 12c/kwh with a Radeon RX Vega56 consuming 200W and a hashrate of 2000 h/s, mining XMR currently yields has a 61% profit margin; it's 79% ROI if you are getting free power. This is not the most power efficient setup (as I said, there are far, far more efficient cards, especially when run in tandem) but it is the most sought-after card due to density. Regardless, it's exceptionally profitable to mine if you already own the card. JS mining only takes a slight performance hit compared to native, actually; asm.js and others provide very good results since the problem is memory-hard, not computationally bound. It is definitely energy efficient and worth doing if all you care about is ROI vs. marginal utility rates in most American cities (perhaps not some of California). Nicehash built their business model around exactly that, which is the real reason people like libraries like the OP's - it's a distributed way to get people mining, not for the individual person themselves.
    - bradoyler 9y ago
      Radeon Vega64 is insane. Sold out everywhere I’ve seen.
      - icelancer 9y ago
        The 64s are occasionally available, the 56s, no shot. Glad I got 7 close to MSRP when I did. There are actually more power efficient alternatives that hash better per dollar assuming that the price of a Vega is $600+, which it easily is. Just requires some heavy lifting.
    - lojack 9y ago
      In that case, thanks for the correction. I suppose I made my original comment with a lot of assumptions that may be less true than I would have thought.
      - icelancer 9y ago
        No problem, thanks for being open minded. It won't last forever... probably. However, this is a lot different than BTC mining due to memory hardness.
lawn 9y ago
Actually both GPU and CPU mining is generally profitable compared to the energy costs, of course depending on your rate. But then there's the cost of the hardware which may be difficult to recoupe.
pfisch 9y ago
This is just not true for basically all of 2017 with the rate at which the value of all the coins has been rising. Especially if it is your desktop on off hours so the hardware is essentially a sunk cost.

wyldfire 9y ago

In general, any PoW-cryptocoin quickly reaches an equilibrium with its costs. Changes in the difficulty, changes in the exchange rate (usually as a function of changing demand), changes in availability of current/next-generation mining hardware will destabilize this equilibrium temporarily. The answer to the question "should I mine [coin x]" in order to make money is usually "no". You should mine that coin because you care about the network's security and decentralization or not at all. If you have access to next-generation mining hardware or cheaper-than-normal electricity, you might have a case for "yes". Or, as you indicate, if you have a malicious way to run the miner or mostly-malicious-"not-too-clearly-disclosed-to-end-user", that is almost certain to make money.

joshschreuder 9y ago
That's not necessarily true, assuming you believe the value of what you're mining will at some point in the future be worth more than it is now. I mined some Ethereum earlier in the year, and was making around $6 AUD a day. I stopped as I was unhappy with the effects of proof of work on electricity supply and the wear on my GPU, but the amount I mined at current market price is worth around 3x that, making it quite a bit more profitable. Of course, if you believe the value will increase at some future point you're most likely better off just buying the coin and hodling it :)
- IanCal 9y ago
  > Of course, if you believe the value will increase at some future point you're most likely better off just buying the coin and hodling it :) I think this is the key point. If it costs more in electricity than the current value it is cheaper and easier to just buy some.
- vitalus 9y ago
  If the cost exceeds the value of what you're mining, you're always better off putting that money directly into purchasing the cryptocoin instead. Option 1: Spend $10 to mine $5 worth of BTC Option 2: Spend $10 to obtain $10 worth of BTC If the market goes up, you are better served by the latter option.

UncleEntity 9y ago

> Does the value of XMR mined exceed the electricity consumed by the app? There seems to be a bit of disagreement over this. Let me ask it another way, would it be worthwhile for someone too lazy to replace the dead battery in their thermostat to mine some coins to add a little heat to their apartment and make a couple bucks in the process?

phoyd 9y ago

>Does the value of XMR mined exceed the electricity consumed by the app? Yes: https://whattomine.com/coins https://whattomine.com/coins Actually, I'm using a computer mining Moneros at 2000H/s in a closed room to help dry a damp wall. The rig converts 250W Power to heat (for the wall) and produces Moneros worth $200/m - leaving me $100 after paying for electricity the computer and the air dehumidifier consumed.

icelancer 9y ago
>Moneros worth $200/m Assuming m = Monero I think you will be in for a good surprise. https://www.tradingview.com/symbols/XMRUSD/ https://www.tradingview.com/symbols/XMRUSD/
- skellera 9y ago
  I think he means per month.