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I wonder if the same can be said for internet porn. I too used to think people who wanted to ban porn were just kooky evangelicals, but at some point realized m

I wonder if the same can be said for internet porn. I too used to think people who wanted to ban porn were just kooky evangelicals, but at some point realized myself how empty and depressed I felt after watching it. I'm almost more curious about the societal consequences of young people (mostly male) being raised on abundant internet porn and its role (if any) it plays in how men emotionally and physically connect with women or other men.

rdruxn 9y ago
Terry Crews has been very vocal about this: https://www.facebook.com/realterrycrews/videos/1083942814959410/ https://www.facebook.com/realterrycrews/videos/1083942814959...
amelius 9y ago
Many books on raising kids already warn about the consequences of internet porn.
- dawhizkid 9y ago
  Sure, but how many millions of young people watch or are addicted to porn and how many of their parents know or know how to stop them from doing it?
- forgotmysn 9y ago
  citing what long-term studies exactly?
  - amelius 9y ago
    I think the warnings are of precautionary nature. But if you want some studies: https://www.yourbrainonporn.com/brain-scan-studies-porn-users https://www.yourbrainonporn.com/brain-scan-studies-porn-user...
  - Balgair 9y ago
    Here is a good review from the NIH: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5039517/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5039517/ Abstract: Traditional factors that once explained men’s sexual difficulties appear insufficient to account for the sharp rise in erectile dysfunction, delayed ejaculation, decreased sexual satisfaction, and diminished libido during partnered sex in men under 40. This review (1) considers data from multiple domains, e.g., clinical, biological (addiction/urology), psychological (sexual conditioning), sociological; and (2) presents a series of clinical reports, all with the aim of proposing a possible direction for future research of this phenomenon. Alterations to the brain's motivational system are explored as a possible etiology underlying pornography-related sexual dysfunctions. This review also considers evidence that Internet pornography’s unique properties (limitless novelty, potential for easy escalation to more extreme material, video format, etc.) may be potent enough to condition sexual arousal to aspects of Internet pornography use that do not readily transition to real-life partners, such that sex with desired partners may not register as meeting expectations and arousal declines. Clinical reports suggest that terminating Internet pornography use is sometimes sufficient to reverse negative effects, underscoring the need for extensive investigation using methodologies that have subjects remove the variable of Internet pornography use. In the interim, a simple diagnostic protocol for assessing patients with porn-induced sexual dysfunction is put forth. Essentially, yes, Porn on the internet seems to be a 'serious' problem in that it affects relationships and personal health in a measurably negative way.
    - fjsolwmv 9y ago
      Delayed ejaculation is a sexual dysfunctional now? After decades (more?) Of jokes about chronic premature ejaculation?
      - japano1se 9y ago
        Anecdotally, this does make sex with my boyfriend less enjoyable, since it becomes a chore to get him to cum.
      - Lewton 9y ago
        Have a friend who can't have kids the natural way because of this
  - fjsolwmv 9y ago
    The Bible, citing the eternal God. Can't get longer term than that ;-)
an_ko 9y ago
What is it about porn that makes you feel depressed? I've heard that opinion before, but I just can't relate, despite being one of those people raised on abundant internet porn. It has been a very clear net positive for me. I'm in a successful long-term relationship. Are single-player games tearing society apart? Is a deck of cards wasted on solitaire? Must all bicycles be tandem?
- xapata 9y ago
  Keep in mind that one's personal experience may not be representative of the "average" person. > single-player games I get obsessive about some games. A completionist, one might say. And when I've achieved what I want to in the game, I suddenly wake up and realize I haven't been outside for a week and I've ignored my friends, family, and colleagues. Worst, the guilt of that realization can be so overwhelming that I am tempted to ignore it and simply start another game that takes over my consciousness. I've observed similar behavior in some others. It was most obvious among World of Warcraft (WoW) players when I went to university. I knew more than a handful of WoW players who dropped out of school because they found their in-game social circle more important than just about everything else in their lives. Rather than studying or going out, they needed to be present for the next raid (WoW session).
  - putinontheritz 9y ago
    I would say WoW, Facebook, Reddit, HN etc all use that little bit of dopamine hit to keep people “playing” as long and as often as possible. I say that have started play WoW again after several years off and dumping Reddit this evening. Both of the can be enjoyable places and there are some really good Reddit communities, but it can be be just as addictive.
    - Rarebox 9y ago
      Yeah, I consider reddit/hn to be more of a waste of time (for me) than videogames. Still, it's easier to browse Reddit than progress in a videogame.
  - deleted 9y ago
remir 9y ago
I share your concerns. The consequences of porn consumption are real. Google "your brain on porn". I now see frequent posts on /r/relationships about porn problems on various level.
- purple-again 9y ago
  Alcoholics. Gambling addicts. Drug addicts. People who leave their children to starve while playing MMOs. It turns out that a small subset of humanity is incapable of controlling themselves regardless of the medium and all that really matters is how destructive the activity is when abused.
borplk 9y ago
There's a big difference between having concerns about something like porn and wanting to ban it for the society.
- ryandrake 9y ago
  Unfortunately many people do not recognize this difference: "I don't personally like X" is exactly equal to "X should be banned by law for everyone."
  - bobthechef 9y ago
    Unfortunately, some people do not recognize the difference between "I personally don't like X" and "X is immoral and destructive" and "because X is immoral and destructive, it ought to be banned". Morality isn't just about killing or stealing.
- dawhizkid 9y ago
  Yes, I agree and should've said that I'm not for banning internet porn, but I do believe it's harmful in the same way that nicotine or addictive drugs are. I wouldn't support a system where the gov't forces ISPs to filter porn, but I would be in favor of web browsers or ISPs building more tools for parents or addicts to self-filter porn on their own.
- bobthechef 9y ago
  It is a matter of prudence in governance. For example, we may permit prostitution (without sanctioning it) if we find that banning it will lead to worse state of social affairs (e.g., society "convulsing with lust", as Aquinas wrote when writing about this very topic). It can be argued that the tolerating of prostitution is actually as such preferable to the toleration of pornography. Point being, because it is a matter of prudence on the part of civil authorities, I am not claiming that people have the right to these things as hedonists are wont to claim.
guskel 9y ago
>and its role (if any) it plays in how men emotionally and physically connect with women or other men. I see this said a lot but it's never described in what ways porn changes this, other than men suffering from sexual disfunction.
- sjg007 9y ago
  It’s treating partners as objects for gratification rather than as humans. So it’s dehumanizing relationships.
  - fjsolwmv 9y ago
    Partners have been objects of gratification for millennia
    - preordained 9y ago
      True. Porn didn't invent lust...it just perfected it, heh.
booleandilemma 9y ago
I realize I’m just a sample of 1 but I feel pretty good after watching porn. Maybe you’re watching the wrong kind?
- ovao 9y ago
  The difference usually lies within addiction and the knowledge of one’s addiction to it. If you knew you were addicted to cigarettes and dissatisfied with that addiction, for example, you’d likely feel a wave of depression after lighting up. Some people can “handle” porn in that they don’t experience any negative effect from it. Some, unfortunately, cannot.
paulcole 9y ago
The real curiosity is why you think there may be "societal consequences" based on your own personal experience? Isn't this quite similar to how "kooky evangelicals" behave?
sjg007 9y ago
There’s a fairly recent movie that explores this topic..
- sauerbraten 9y ago
  Don Jon, for those wondering. (At least I think that's the one sjg007 is talking about.)
internetman55 9y ago
I feel like society is using science to rediscover the basic findings of the moral theologians. Compare the daughters (secondary effects) of lust listed by Thomas Aquinas to all the newly "scientifically verified" side effects of pornography use.
- bobthechef 9y ago
  Haven't you learned by now? Science that goes against the will of the people is invalid.
  - internetman55 9y ago
    Well, at least people might end up engaging in fewer self-destructive behaviors as a result either way.
  - cobalt778 9y ago
    Can you explain what you mean?
aphextron 9y ago
>at some point realized myself how empty and depressed I felt after watching it. Herin lies the problem with moral crusading. I feel awesome after watching internet porn. Keep your opinions from bleeding into others' rights.
- ethftw 9y ago
  I feel awesome after smoking a cigarette.
  - aphextron 9y ago
    Me too.
    - hateduser2 9y ago
      Still bad for you though.
- oxryly1 9y ago
  > I feel awesome after watching internet porn Well then... wait til you try cocaine!
- bobthechef 9y ago
  Herin lies the problem with your bait-and-switch pseudo-tolerant stunt. Telling him to keep his opinions to himself is bleeding into his rights to express them.
wernercd 9y ago
The next question is... after the detachment, social awkwardness and unreal expectations... what happens when you add the constant drum beat of "He asked me out now I'm charging him with assault"? I'll be amazed if people are dating in 5 years at this rate.
- KozmoNau7 9y ago
  What "constant drum beat"?
staticelf 9y ago
The problem is banning something also affects those who do not have a problem which in this case most likely is the overwhelming majority. I'm raised with internet porn and I don't believe I have a problem. Why should I be banned from watching something I enjoy? I don't buy the crap about porn changing people. Sure you can say that for yourself if you got addicted but you can't just throw that out as a general truth. Porn has been around for a long time now and I don't really see people behaving different today.
Viliam1234 9y ago
Do you similarly worry about romance books written mostly for women, or is it only male sexual fantasy that needs to be regulated?

rdruxn 9y ago

Terry Crews has been very vocal about this: https://www.facebook.com/realterrycrews/videos/1083942814959410/ https://www.facebook.com/realterrycrews/videos/1083942814959...

amelius 9y ago

Many books on raising kids already warn about the consequences of internet porn.

dawhizkid 9y ago
Sure, but how many millions of young people watch or are addicted to porn and how many of their parents know or know how to stop them from doing it?
forgotmysn 9y ago
citing what long-term studies exactly?
- amelius 9y ago
  I think the warnings are of precautionary nature. But if you want some studies: https://www.yourbrainonporn.com/brain-scan-studies-porn-users https://www.yourbrainonporn.com/brain-scan-studies-porn-user...
- Balgair 9y ago
  Here is a good review from the NIH: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5039517/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5039517/ Abstract: Traditional factors that once explained men’s sexual difficulties appear insufficient to account for the sharp rise in erectile dysfunction, delayed ejaculation, decreased sexual satisfaction, and diminished libido during partnered sex in men under 40. This review (1) considers data from multiple domains, e.g., clinical, biological (addiction/urology), psychological (sexual conditioning), sociological; and (2) presents a series of clinical reports, all with the aim of proposing a possible direction for future research of this phenomenon. Alterations to the brain's motivational system are explored as a possible etiology underlying pornography-related sexual dysfunctions. This review also considers evidence that Internet pornography’s unique properties (limitless novelty, potential for easy escalation to more extreme material, video format, etc.) may be potent enough to condition sexual arousal to aspects of Internet pornography use that do not readily transition to real-life partners, such that sex with desired partners may not register as meeting expectations and arousal declines. Clinical reports suggest that terminating Internet pornography use is sometimes sufficient to reverse negative effects, underscoring the need for extensive investigation using methodologies that have subjects remove the variable of Internet pornography use. In the interim, a simple diagnostic protocol for assessing patients with porn-induced sexual dysfunction is put forth. Essentially, yes, Porn on the internet seems to be a 'serious' problem in that it affects relationships and personal health in a measurably negative way.
  - fjsolwmv 9y ago
    Delayed ejaculation is a sexual dysfunctional now? After decades (more?) Of jokes about chronic premature ejaculation?
    - japano1se 9y ago
      Anecdotally, this does make sex with my boyfriend less enjoyable, since it becomes a chore to get him to cum.
    - Lewton 9y ago
      Have a friend who can't have kids the natural way because of this
- fjsolwmv 9y ago
  The Bible, citing the eternal God. Can't get longer term than that ;-)

an_ko 9y ago

What is it about porn that makes you feel depressed? I've heard that opinion before, but I just can't relate, despite being one of those people raised on abundant internet porn. It has been a very clear net positive for me. I'm in a successful long-term relationship. Are single-player games tearing society apart? Is a deck of cards wasted on solitaire? Must all bicycles be tandem?

xapata 9y ago
Keep in mind that one's personal experience may not be representative of the "average" person. > single-player games I get obsessive about some games. A completionist, one might say. And when I've achieved what I want to in the game, I suddenly wake up and realize I haven't been outside for a week and I've ignored my friends, family, and colleagues. Worst, the guilt of that realization can be so overwhelming that I am tempted to ignore it and simply start another game that takes over my consciousness. I've observed similar behavior in some others. It was most obvious among World of Warcraft (WoW) players when I went to university. I knew more than a handful of WoW players who dropped out of school because they found their in-game social circle more important than just about everything else in their lives. Rather than studying or going out, they needed to be present for the next raid (WoW session).
- putinontheritz 9y ago
  I would say WoW, Facebook, Reddit, HN etc all use that little bit of dopamine hit to keep people “playing” as long and as often as possible. I say that have started play WoW again after several years off and dumping Reddit this evening. Both of the can be enjoyable places and there are some really good Reddit communities, but it can be be just as addictive.
  - Rarebox 9y ago
    Yeah, I consider reddit/hn to be more of a waste of time (for me) than videogames. Still, it's easier to browse Reddit than progress in a videogame.
- deleted 9y ago

remir 9y ago

I share your concerns. The consequences of porn consumption are real. Google "your brain on porn". I now see frequent posts on /r/relationships about porn problems on various level.

purple-again 9y ago
Alcoholics. Gambling addicts. Drug addicts. People who leave their children to starve while playing MMOs. It turns out that a small subset of humanity is incapable of controlling themselves regardless of the medium and all that really matters is how destructive the activity is when abused.

borplk 9y ago

There's a big difference between having concerns about something like porn and wanting to ban it for the society.

ryandrake 9y ago
Unfortunately many people do not recognize this difference: "I don't personally like X" is exactly equal to "X should be banned by law for everyone."
- bobthechef 9y ago
  Unfortunately, some people do not recognize the difference between "I personally don't like X" and "X is immoral and destructive" and "because X is immoral and destructive, it ought to be banned". Morality isn't just about killing or stealing.
dawhizkid 9y ago
Yes, I agree and should've said that I'm not for banning internet porn, but I do believe it's harmful in the same way that nicotine or addictive drugs are. I wouldn't support a system where the gov't forces ISPs to filter porn, but I would be in favor of web browsers or ISPs building more tools for parents or addicts to self-filter porn on their own.
bobthechef 9y ago
It is a matter of prudence in governance. For example, we may permit prostitution (without sanctioning it) if we find that banning it will lead to worse state of social affairs (e.g., society "convulsing with lust", as Aquinas wrote when writing about this very topic). It can be argued that the tolerating of prostitution is actually as such preferable to the toleration of pornography. Point being, because it is a matter of prudence on the part of civil authorities, I am not claiming that people have the right to these things as hedonists are wont to claim.

guskel 9y ago

>and its role (if any) it plays in how men emotionally and physically connect with women or other men. I see this said a lot but it's never described in what ways porn changes this, other than men suffering from sexual disfunction.

sjg007 9y ago
It’s treating partners as objects for gratification rather than as humans. So it’s dehumanizing relationships.
- fjsolwmv 9y ago
  Partners have been objects of gratification for millennia
  - preordained 9y ago
    True. Porn didn't invent lust...it just perfected it, heh.

booleandilemma 9y ago

I realize I’m just a sample of 1 but I feel pretty good after watching porn. Maybe you’re watching the wrong kind?

ovao 9y ago
The difference usually lies within addiction and the knowledge of one’s addiction to it. If you knew you were addicted to cigarettes and dissatisfied with that addiction, for example, you’d likely feel a wave of depression after lighting up. Some people can “handle” porn in that they don’t experience any negative effect from it. Some, unfortunately, cannot.

paulcole 9y ago

The real curiosity is why you think there may be "societal consequences" based on your own personal experience? Isn't this quite similar to how "kooky evangelicals" behave?

sjg007 9y ago

There’s a fairly recent movie that explores this topic..

sauerbraten 9y ago
Don Jon, for those wondering. (At least I think that's the one sjg007 is talking about.)

internetman55 9y ago

I feel like society is using science to rediscover the basic findings of the moral theologians. Compare the daughters (secondary effects) of lust listed by Thomas Aquinas to all the newly "scientifically verified" side effects of pornography use.

bobthechef 9y ago
Haven't you learned by now? Science that goes against the will of the people is invalid.
- internetman55 9y ago
  Well, at least people might end up engaging in fewer self-destructive behaviors as a result either way.
- cobalt778 9y ago
  Can you explain what you mean?

aphextron 9y ago

>at some point realized myself how empty and depressed I felt after watching it. Herin lies the problem with moral crusading. I feel awesome after watching internet porn. Keep your opinions from bleeding into others' rights.

ethftw 9y ago
I feel awesome after smoking a cigarette.
- aphextron 9y ago
  Me too.
  - hateduser2 9y ago
    Still bad for you though.
oxryly1 9y ago
> I feel awesome after watching internet porn Well then... wait til you try cocaine!
bobthechef 9y ago
Herin lies the problem with your bait-and-switch pseudo-tolerant stunt. Telling him to keep his opinions to himself is bleeding into his rights to express them.

wernercd 9y ago

The next question is... after the detachment, social awkwardness and unreal expectations... what happens when you add the constant drum beat of "He asked me out now I'm charging him with assault"? I'll be amazed if people are dating in 5 years at this rate.

KozmoNau7 9y ago
What "constant drum beat"?

staticelf 9y ago

The problem is banning something also affects those who do not have a problem which in this case most likely is the overwhelming majority. I'm raised with internet porn and I don't believe I have a problem. Why should I be banned from watching something I enjoy? I don't buy the crap about porn changing people. Sure you can say that for yourself if you got addicted but you can't just throw that out as a general truth. Porn has been around for a long time now and I don't really see people behaving different today.

Viliam1234 9y ago

Do you similarly worry about romance books written mostly for women, or is it only male sexual fantasy that needs to be regulated?