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Sharpie reinvents the pen with liquid pencil
- kiba 16y agoSo does anybody still use pen and paper outside of school? It seem to me that the entire school supply industry is propped up by old school methods of education.
- epochwolf 16y agouh, I draft plenty of complex code on paper. The code I wrote today was drafted on 5 sheets of a legal pad yesterday. I've tried to just draft stuff in a text editor but it doesn't work the same.
- deleted 16y ago[deleted]
- Naga 16y agoI do. But I never use anything but a pen, anyways, so I don't see why I'd need this.
- oiuyhtfrgtjhk 16y agoObviously not a real (ie mechanical) engineer. One of the most annoying things is when you are forced to write with a pen (legal reasons) instead of the beloved pencil.
- leftnode 16y agoI use Moleskin notebooks (go through about 1 a month) full of ideas, drawings, notes, just about anything. I also keep a stack of 4x6 notecards to hash out ideas on paper (1 step below talking them out loud to people). Try it, it's incredibly effective.
- makmanalp 16y agoNot to nitpick or anything, but this has turned into a pet peeve of mine recently: it's "Moleskine". Not that I'm a crazed die-hard fan of the notebooks or anything, but they appear to be pretty nice. Maybe I'll try using one soon.
- mkramlich 16y agoMoleskine user/lover here too. I carry a pocket-sized Moleskine, pen and iPhone almost everywhere I go. It's faster and more enjoyable to write notes in the notebook than in my iPhone (the latter increasingly freezes with iOS 4.0 and even without that has lots of annoying UX quirks), and I can easily go back and forth between text and doodles/diagrams, unlike the iPhone (built-in apps anyway, admittedly.) If you just want the cheapest paper possible, Moleskine is a bad choice. But if you want the best experience as a writer/reader/geek, Moleskine is a no brainer.
- patrickgzill 16y agoI have switched from Moleskine to Piccadilly brand (I think this is the house brand of Borders Books). Half the price, almost the same quality. The problem with Moleskines is that they got too popular, so they keep switching around the source for their paper; while earlier (circa 2005) Moleskines had paper that fountain pens wouldn't bleed through, later ones of the exact same type do have paper that fountain pens will bleed through.
- mkramlich 16y agointeresting to know, thanks. I just got into Moleskine a year ago or so. i haven't experienced any bleedthrough with the Pentel ballpoint point I pimped in another comment in this discussion. I think B&N has a store brand they promote too but I haven't tried it yet.
- Luyt 16y agoI love fountain pens. I have bunch of Parker 'Vectors' in a diversity of line widths and ink colors. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parker_Vector http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parker_Vector The only disadvantage is that the ink stays water-soluble after it dries.
- tjr 16y agoAbsolutely. I don't write much text with pen and paper, but diagrams, mathematics, music notation... all still much easier for me to do with a pen.
- J_McQuade 16y agoI often sketch out code, short stories, or (to me) fleetingly puzzling mathematics with a notepad and pen. Try it. It's the most versatile note-taking system ever devised. Also, it has the plus-side of being 'interesting'. People are attracted to scribbles they understand them - but crack open your laptop in a pub or cafe and people will assume that you're a rabidly, uninterruptibly busy, professional. And hell, maybe you are, but whose day isn't brightened by someone asking them what they're so engrossed in?
- bitwize 16y agoDepoends on what's on the laptop screen. Usually it's someone's 3Q projection analysis spreadsheet or an academic paper about third-wave-feminist semiotics in Madonna music videos (I live near Harvard). If it's Emacs (and it sometimes is; I also live near MIT), I'd be more inclined to say "Hey, whatcha workin' on?"
- johnfn 16y agoWriting math is definitely the killer app for me. For some reason I just can't write math on the computer without scribbling it out on paper first. Everything else works, more or less. Maybe it's because I've done so much math on paper already.
- JacobAldridge 16y agoI wrote the first draft of my (unpublished) novel [1] long hand - I don't think there's necessarily a greater 'connection' with my words when I'm writing rather than typing, but I did find it much easier to do (lying on a couch with a laptop isn't as easy) and great for scattering notes (which remain the same size on paper, unlike cascading windows on my screen). Though I no longer use a pen at work ... I use coloured textas! [2] [1] http://www.scribd.com/The-Cookie-From-the-Cookie-Jar-2008/d/3717607 http://www.scribd.com/The-Cookie-From-the-Cookie-Jar-2008/d/... [2] http://www.shirlawsonline.com/blogs/136-the-big-picture-shows-a-colourful-future http://www.shirlawsonline.com/blogs/136-the-big-picture-show...
- jleader 16y agoI had the impression that a large part of Sharpie's market (for their "Sharpie" permanent markers, at least) is marking physical things (writing your name on your coffee cup, for example). I don't see that market going away for a while, at least until absolutely everything is RFID tagged.
- okmjuhb 16y agoI always do my first draft of any nontrivial large system by writing the code out longhand, after having heard it recommended by multiple people I respect. My perception is that the resulting code is cleaner and better documented, and that my error rate has dropped to almost 0. Writing your code this way encourages a "write as you would speak" tone in the resulting code, better decomposition, and better documentation. It also means that each line gets reviewed from a fresh start at least twice before making it to the computer. The biggest problem comes when you're working with a large API you don't know well; you're frequently forced to experiment with it in a manner that this sort of batching doesn't really handle well.
- techsupporter 16y agoMe. We have a ticket tracking system for customer calls, but I find it's much easier to write out the notes I'm going to enter. Plus, I can do diagrams and charts for the descriptions the customer is giving me.
- ollysb 16y agoI get through at least an index card a day doing pomodoros.
- ora600 16y agoThe only way I can outline a good presentation is with a sharpie and sticky notes. One concept per note, you can rearrange them easily, have an idea of what the presentation will flow like, and then turn each concept to a slide. I'll probably stop doing that once someone writes software that can replicate this workflow and integrates with presentation software.
- bconway 16y agoYes, daily. I can't remember the last time I used a pencil, though, 10 years at least.
- kellishaver 16y agoI take all of my meeting notes on paper, lists of revisions, to-do lists, etc. I go through about one Mead 5-subject notebook a month. I find it far easier than trying to keep track of it all digitally.
- pcestrada 16y agoI keep a pad of graph paper next to my desk with a nice pen. I find it useful to sketch out ideas, data structures, etc. on graph paper since the grid lines help keep things lined up.
- jessriedel 16y agoThe real question is whether it actually feels as smooth as a pen. The erasable pens were not pleasing to write with.
- benofsky 16y agoAm I the only one who wants a pen which writes like a pencil, not vice-versa, maybe I'm crazy... edit for typo.
- Groxx 16y agoAs in, varied shades? Try a Bic, you can actually sketch pretty well with them. I don't know what they do differently, but they're the only pens I've found with this quality. If you mean erasability (sp?), that's pretty un-pen-like in its very nature, though they exist. If you mean something else, you've got me intrigued: can haz illumination, plz?
- benofsky 16y agoI don't do any drawing actually, I just don't think there is anything as fluid for taking notes, diagrams, mindmaps, etc.
- Groxx 16y agoProbably not. I'm also a pencil fan, though I've fiddled with other tools, and have a decent Wacom. The Wacom could replace most other tools... if there were any decent high-volume + organization sketching applications out there with proper tablet support. It's very nice, and I'd love to have all my notes in my computer, but things don't keep up or they look like crap or they have no tablet support or they provide zero tools for sketchers who use sketching as a form of memory.
- olefoo 16y ago> decent high-volume + organization sketching applications What makes for 'decent' in your terminology? Obviously the primary organization tool is going to be the timeline, but what other organization tools do you feel a need for? tags? contacts? would it need to be able to pull text out of a sketch? You mention high-volume; what do most sketching apps you've met do that limits the speed and volume of creation?
- htsh 16y agoI've been using pen-tech liquiphite pencils for nearly a year now. How are these different?
- Groxx 16y agoDo they go permanent after X period of time (in this case, 3 days)? That seems a pretty important feature if it's trying to be a pen, methinks. (haven't used those, don't know if they do or not)
- jberryman 16y agoI don't have any need for this in particular, but for some reason this is the most exciting thing I've read all day.
- fuzzythinker 16y agoWhat's the difference between these and Pilot's FriXion pens and highlighters? They have been out for 1-2 years and I've been using them for over a year now. They are truly erasable by friction with the included rubber tip (not like previous "erasable" pens that leave the inks permanently if it's not erased immediately). You can get them at major stationary stores in US like Office* and Staples. But it's a shame since they are not promoted like they do in Japan (not to mention Japan sells the latest ones in different styles and colors and writes a little better than the older ones in US).
- jcdreads 16y agoTurns out that the FriXion ink is still there after being erased, but it's on the other side of some kind of (reversible!) phase transition. Any kind of heat makes it go away, and cold makes it reappear, as this video shows: http://www.jetpens.com/jetpics/?p=172 http://www.jetpens.com/jetpics/?p=172? Very cool ink.
- fuzzythinker 16y agoHmm, interesting! The way I guessed these FriXion pens work is the ink is actually liquid plastic and by friction, the plastic inks gets rubbed away when "erased". I guess that explains my curiosity of why there isn't any "ink residues" after the ink is erased away. Still, I'll much prefer these friXion pens over the new Sharpies since under normal usage, writings usually don't get exposed to tremendous heat. So to me and perhaps normal users, these friXion pens are more like erasable pens since they are not subject to the 3 day rule the new Sharpies impose. The only question remains is if these new Sharpies' "liquid graphite" writes like a real pencil, in which case, it would have a totally difference use and market (art, drafting, etc.). Since it says it's available already, I'll probably grab some and find out for myself. I'm cited!
- po 16y agoI discovered the re-appearing part when I left my notebook in a place where it froze. All my corrections came back. It was a little disconcerting to see erased ideas pop up like ghosts behind the new ideas.
- alok-g 16y agoI love this! I frequently annotate books I am reading, and often have to use eraser for correcting typos etc. With (non-erasable) pens, downside is that I cannot erase. With pencils, downside is that I can erase anytime. Almost never do I have a need to erase something two days after writing. Would be buying shortly.
- makmanalp 16y agoFor the record, the papermate erasermate worked with any eraser, not just the one on the end of the pen itself as the article describes. It would get harder to erase after a while, but not this dramatic, so kudos to sharpie, this is an improvement!
- oiuyhtfrgtjhk 16y agoBut the ink would also rub off onto the facing sheet of paper, I have a whole high school worth of unreadable notes from this (not that anyone wants to read my high school notes after 20years!)
- cubicle67 16y agoand hands, especially if you're left handed
- chipsy 16y agoI had a lot of illegible writing in high school exactly for this reason. Teachers demanded writing "in pen" for the sake of contrast/readability and I gave it to them, but I wasn't about to deal with the hassle of a non-erasable method. But being a left handed writer, the side of my hand inevitably ended up blackened as I rested it on old text and smudged it in the process. So my works in erasable pen ended up less readable than the ones in pencil.
- johndoe77 16y agoI found myself having to place a piece of paper under my left hand to prevent incessant smudging. This, coupled with a desk designed for right handed students made for less than enjoyable marathon note taking sessions.
- ralph 16y agoAs a sinister southpaw myself, I've never understood why fellow left-handers grip the pen in an unusual curled-round fashion such that their hand rests on what's just written. I hold it like a right-handed person would. http://blogs.suntimes.com/ebert/hand-holding-pen.jpg http://blogs.suntimes.com/ebert/hand-holding-pen.jpg But mirror-imaged. Is it because these left-handers are set on the wrong path by right-handed teachers who don't know better?
- mkramlich 16y agoThe best pen I've ever used is the Pentel RSVP BK91 Medium point. I love them so much I buy them in bulk, both to save money and to ensure I have a large supply in case they ever stop producing them. They are that good. And I don't care that they can't be erased. I can always linethough/overwrite, and I'm not an artist, just a writer/notetaker.
- sandGorgon 16y agoapart from this, is'nt a pencil almost unequivocally better. Assuming you have a soft-enough lead and with the right thickness, a pencil is almost always better than a pen. Is marketing and sex appeal a large part of the charm of a pen ? For example there is no "Mont Blanc" for pencils...
- oddthink 16y agoThere's also the appeal of going back to your lab notebooks after six months and not finding them a smear of graphite. To me, pencils feel the best when writing, but the smudging over time is too annoying.
- jamesbritt 16y agoI have a feeling if you spoke to some artists/draftsmen you'd hear about the "Mont Blanc" of pencils. Also, you might find such a thing here: http://www.penciltalk.org/ http://www.penciltalk.org/
- sandGorgon 16y agoBut I am not talking about draftsmen - the "Mont Blanc" exists _per se_ not in some specific demographic. I like penciltalk, because the other site which I have seen - davesmechanicalpencils - has good reviews, but invariably all the pencils look uncool. I am sure it's not the poor bloke's fault - rather that companies dont make pencils with sex appeal.
- Toucan 16y agoMontblanc make mechanical pencils. As do most of the luxury brand manufacturers (there are many who make more expensive pens than Montblanc.) This is potentially better then lead in that it's permanent after a while. I wonder how permanent, but it's certainly true that pencil notes on paper don't come close to archival quality.
- bradendouglass 16y agoAlthough the effort from Sharpie is great and will ultimately purchase a few, I think a lot can be said about a geek by their pencil. My fave at the moment is Pentel Kerry. Amazing mechanical pencil that feels phenomenal in hand, what is everyone else rocking?
- scorpioxy 16y agoPencil? What's that? Seriously though, I don't really write any more except very rarely. I've been trying to get rid of anything paper based for the past 5 years and I think that I am slowly getting there. So what does that say about me as a geek?
- thenduks 16y agoNothing at all. Differences in personal preference are as vast as the options available. For example: I don't write anything, but I sketch out interfaces and ideas all the time, usually with a pen. Lots of people (my past (and maybe future?) self included) prefer pencils because they can be erased or just feel better in their hand/on paper.
- Marticus 16y agoThat you like to diagram less maths than I do. Although unless it's super-complex we usually do it on a whiteboard in the house or on the Boogie Board.
- pmccool 16y agoI was struck by the parallel with blue-black ink (chemical reaction for permanence + dye to see what was written in the meantime).
- konad 16y agoShame it's more plastic to end up in an dead albatross' stomach in the Pacific Gyre.
- Marticus 16y agoAs someone who commented on the original article stated, I'd like to know whether or not the device works on scantrons. If so, that would be a high school / college godsend. This is also awesome.
- tseabrooks 16y agoThe office depot ad says the pencil is #2 equvalent.. so I'm thinking it does work on scantrons..
- Marticus 16y agoOh baby.
- mayonesa 16y agoTry one before you talk it up -- the lines are thin, and kind of look gray like the output of a cheap black pen. I think I'm waiting for rev2.0 because as of now, it's less impressive than a regular pencil or mechanical pencil.