8 ms·

>As composed as Livingood's response was, a modem at EOL and/or incapable of supporting an incremental speed upgrade doesn't strike me as critical. Exactly. An

>As composed as Livingood's response was, a modem at EOL and/or incapable of supporting an incremental speed upgrade doesn't strike me as critical. Exactly. And the response, "we're not trying to sell you a modem, we're just encouraging you to strongly consider buying a new one" is such a hair-splittingly asinine response considering the rather serious breach of trust posed by the notification system.

thaumaturgy 9y ago
This is just about the worst possible way to notify a customer of any issue anyway, because it legitimizes those stupid ad-based malware popups that have become so prevalent. As more Comcast customers receive JS-based notices like these injected into their normal web traffic, any enterprising jerk can clone the message, change the links to point to their own phishing site, change or omit the phone number, and snag a whole bunch of unsuspecting Comcast customers.
- userbinator 9y ago
  As more Comcast customers receive JS-based notices like these injected into their normal web traffic, any enterprising jerk can clone the message, change the links to point to their own phishing site, change or omit the phone number, and snag a whole bunch of unsuspecting Comcast customers. To be a devil's advocate, Comcast customers have been phished before via email too: http://technology.pitt.edu/news-and-alerts/phishing-alert-email-notice-mimics-comcast-xfinity-support http://technology.pitt.edu/news-and-alerts/phishing-alert-em... ...and then there's the various phone and even door-to-door scams, but I'd consider the latter to be much harder to do.
carussell 9y ago
> And the response, "we're not trying to sell you a modem, we're just encouraging you to strongly consider buying a new one" Making up quotes like this is against HN guidelines (and common decency).
- glenstein 9y ago
  My "quote" isn't significantly different from what was actually said, in fact hews extremely closely to it, and is designed for rhetorical purpose of making clear how small a distinction is being relied upon in order to claim the statement is something other than a request for you to buy a new modem. Moreover there's nothing in the guidelines about "making up quotes" (which again isn't a reasonable interpretation of what that is), whereas there are actual, explicit guidelines against addressing yourself to unreasonably interpreted versions of other people's comments.
  - tptacek 9y ago
    If you're rewording something someone else said, even if you're keeping it very close to the original words, don't use quotation marks. Quotes say "this is literally what was said". I got bit by this a bunch when I first got on HN; it was surprising to me how seriously it was taken. But it is, and it's not hard to work around.
    - pvg 9y ago
      That's a weird HN-ism, though, not how writing or paraphrasing works anywhere else. The goal is understandable and laudable but 'redefining the meaning of quotes' is a thing only hardcore lispers can love.
      - tptacek 9y ago
        Yeah, they should probably put it in the guidelines. I just remember getting sniped by PG for using quotes that way.
        pvg 9y ago
        What I'm getting at is, no, they shouldn't, nor should they expect anyone to adopt some weird made-up usage of standard punctuation. Perhaps they should put 'avoid paraphrasing as a rhetorical device' or something like it in the guidelines - that would make sense and be reasonably enforceable. "Don't use quotes the way everyone uses quotes" (like I just did) is just silly and ridiculous. You might as well put "don't call anyone a butthead without using the Oxford comma" in the guidelines.
jlivingood 9y ago
> Exactly. And the response, "we're not trying to sell you a modem, we're just encouraging you to strongly consider buying a new one" is such a hair-splittingly asinine response considering the rather serious breach of trust posed by the notification system. Well, what I meant (within the response length constraints of Twitter) was that we're not saying you can only buy it from us. Just that the customer needs to buy it someplace. That way a customer can do as the wish - ranging from buying a used one on eBay to getting a new one from Amazon or Best Buy. Ultimately the objective is to ensure a customer is on a device that can (1) deliver the performance for which they pay and (2) is up to date technically (i.e. supports IPv6 and channel bonding) and is supported by the vendor (i.e. software updates & bug fixes). One of the big risks we have to help mitigate is when a device goes EOL, which means no more software updates, and a security or significant performance issue arises in the future. By proactively beginning the replacement process this helps minimize any future impact when it is a major issue like that. So taking action gradually on a proactive basis prevents a more severe impact later on. In many cases, these are DOCSIS 2.0 devices and that technology and often the software is from 2001, the same year as the 1st gen iPod and when Windows XP was released. Eventually a modem will go into End-of-Service (EOS) status. At that point there is a definite date/time limit for the device, after which it is de-provisioned from the network and the customer must replace it to continue service. This has been the case in the past with DOCSIS 1.0 and 1.1 devices for example, after years of work to encourage customers to replace them. See also https://www.xfinity.com/support/articles/end-of-life-devices https://www.xfinity.com/support/articles/end-of-life-devices and the start of the EOL/EOS process for DOCSIS 1.1 devices https://www.dslreports.com/forum/r27473499-Speed-Heads-Up-Time-to-Replace-Your-DOCSIS-1-1-Modem https://www.dslreports.com/forum/r27473499-Speed-Heads-Up-Ti... and https://www.dslreports.com/forum/r28497383-Speed-Upgrade-Your-DOCSIS-1-1-Modem-ASAP https://www.dslreports.com/forum/r28497383-Speed-Upgrade-You... and https://www.dslreports.com/forum/r30524429-Equip-Reminder-Please-replace-your-DOCSIS-2-0-modem https://www.dslreports.com/forum/r30524429-Equip-Reminder-Pl... and https://www.dslreports.com/forum/r30450278-Speed-Heads-Up-Time-to-Replace-Your-DOCSIS-3-0-4x4-Modem https://www.dslreports.com/forum/r30450278-Speed-Heads-Up-Ti...
- sulam 9y ago
  If his modem is actively interfering with your network I could see that this is critical. If he has been hacked and is actively DDOSing sites, that’s critical. We can debate the correct response in those cases (getting on the phone and calling seems to work really well when you want people to pay you, as does turning off service). Unless I’m misunderstanding, this was not causing such a problem. Casting it as a customer good is rhetorically amusing, and probably holds water with people who are predisposed to agree with you, but I can make any number of morally bankrupt decisions using exactly the same logic. You have simpler ways to deliver this message, that do not cause nearly as much harm to your customer and do not require you to intercept and modify their traffic.
userbinator 9y ago
...unless the upgrade actually means loss of service due to incompatibility, in which case I would agree that is critical, but nonetheless "go buy a new modem" is something no customer wants to hear, especially if they're already paying $$$ every month for the service.

thaumaturgy 9y ago

This is just about the worst possible way to notify a customer of any issue anyway, because it legitimizes those stupid ad-based malware popups that have become so prevalent. As more Comcast customers receive JS-based notices like these injected into their normal web traffic, any enterprising jerk can clone the message, change the links to point to their own phishing site, change or omit the phone number, and snag a whole bunch of unsuspecting Comcast customers.

userbinator 9y ago
As more Comcast customers receive JS-based notices like these injected into their normal web traffic, any enterprising jerk can clone the message, change the links to point to their own phishing site, change or omit the phone number, and snag a whole bunch of unsuspecting Comcast customers. To be a devil's advocate, Comcast customers have been phished before via email too: http://technology.pitt.edu/news-and-alerts/phishing-alert-email-notice-mimics-comcast-xfinity-support http://technology.pitt.edu/news-and-alerts/phishing-alert-em... ...and then there's the various phone and even door-to-door scams, but I'd consider the latter to be much harder to do.

carussell 9y ago

> And the response, "we're not trying to sell you a modem, we're just encouraging you to strongly consider buying a new one" Making up quotes like this is against HN guidelines (and common decency).

glenstein 9y ago
My "quote" isn't significantly different from what was actually said, in fact hews extremely closely to it, and is designed for rhetorical purpose of making clear how small a distinction is being relied upon in order to claim the statement is something other than a request for you to buy a new modem. Moreover there's nothing in the guidelines about "making up quotes" (which again isn't a reasonable interpretation of what that is), whereas there are actual, explicit guidelines against addressing yourself to unreasonably interpreted versions of other people's comments.
- tptacek 9y ago
  If you're rewording something someone else said, even if you're keeping it very close to the original words, don't use quotation marks. Quotes say "this is literally what was said". I got bit by this a bunch when I first got on HN; it was surprising to me how seriously it was taken. But it is, and it's not hard to work around.
  - pvg 9y ago
    That's a weird HN-ism, though, not how writing or paraphrasing works anywhere else. The goal is understandable and laudable but 'redefining the meaning of quotes' is a thing only hardcore lispers can love.
    - tptacek 9y ago
      Yeah, they should probably put it in the guidelines. I just remember getting sniped by PG for using quotes that way.
      - pvg 9y ago
        What I'm getting at is, no, they shouldn't, nor should they expect anyone to adopt some weird made-up usage of standard punctuation. Perhaps they should put 'avoid paraphrasing as a rhetorical device' or something like it in the guidelines - that would make sense and be reasonably enforceable. "Don't use quotes the way everyone uses quotes" (like I just did) is just silly and ridiculous. You might as well put "don't call anyone a butthead without using the Oxford comma" in the guidelines.

jlivingood 9y ago

> Exactly. And the response, "we're not trying to sell you a modem, we're just encouraging you to strongly consider buying a new one" is such a hair-splittingly asinine response considering the rather serious breach of trust posed by the notification system. Well, what I meant (within the response length constraints of Twitter) was that we're not saying you can only buy it from us. Just that the customer needs to buy it someplace. That way a customer can do as the wish - ranging from buying a used one on eBay to getting a new one from Amazon or Best Buy. Ultimately the objective is to ensure a customer is on a device that can (1) deliver the performance for which they pay and (2) is up to date technically (i.e. supports IPv6 and channel bonding) and is supported by the vendor (i.e. software updates & bug fixes). One of the big risks we have to help mitigate is when a device goes EOL, which means no more software updates, and a security or significant performance issue arises in the future. By proactively beginning the replacement process this helps minimize any future impact when it is a major issue like that. So taking action gradually on a proactive basis prevents a more severe impact later on. In many cases, these are DOCSIS 2.0 devices and that technology and often the software is from 2001, the same year as the 1st gen iPod and when Windows XP was released. Eventually a modem will go into End-of-Service (EOS) status. At that point there is a definite date/time limit for the device, after which it is de-provisioned from the network and the customer must replace it to continue service. This has been the case in the past with DOCSIS 1.0 and 1.1 devices for example, after years of work to encourage customers to replace them. See also https://www.xfinity.com/support/articles/end-of-life-devices https://www.xfinity.com/support/articles/end-of-life-devices and the start of the EOL/EOS process for DOCSIS 1.1 devices https://www.dslreports.com/forum/r27473499-Speed-Heads-Up-Time-to-Replace-Your-DOCSIS-1-1-Modem https://www.dslreports.com/forum/r27473499-Speed-Heads-Up-Ti... and https://www.dslreports.com/forum/r28497383-Speed-Upgrade-Your-DOCSIS-1-1-Modem-ASAP https://www.dslreports.com/forum/r28497383-Speed-Upgrade-You... and https://www.dslreports.com/forum/r30524429-Equip-Reminder-Please-replace-your-DOCSIS-2-0-modem https://www.dslreports.com/forum/r30524429-Equip-Reminder-Pl... and https://www.dslreports.com/forum/r30450278-Speed-Heads-Up-Time-to-Replace-Your-DOCSIS-3-0-4x4-Modem https://www.dslreports.com/forum/r30450278-Speed-Heads-Up-Ti...

sulam 9y ago
If his modem is actively interfering with your network I could see that this is critical. If he has been hacked and is actively DDOSing sites, that’s critical. We can debate the correct response in those cases (getting on the phone and calling seems to work really well when you want people to pay you, as does turning off service). Unless I’m misunderstanding, this was not causing such a problem. Casting it as a customer good is rhetorically amusing, and probably holds water with people who are predisposed to agree with you, but I can make any number of morally bankrupt decisions using exactly the same logic. You have simpler ways to deliver this message, that do not cause nearly as much harm to your customer and do not require you to intercept and modify their traffic.

userbinator 9y ago

...unless the upgrade actually means loss of service due to incompatibility, in which case I would agree that is critical, but nonetheless "go buy a new modem" is something no customer wants to hear, especially if they're already paying $$$ every month for the service.