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I don't believe the evidence is on your side. The reason carbs damage us more than merely their caloric content is, to quote Dr. William Davis of The Heart Scan

I don't believe the evidence is on your side. The reason carbs damage us more than merely their caloric content is, to quote Dr. William Davis of The Heart Scan Blog: "Carbohydrates increase small LDL particles. Or, in the cholesterol-speak most people understand, "carbohydrates increase cholesterol." It's counterintuitive, but carbohydrates increase LDL substantially, far more than any fat. Carbohydrates increase blood sugar. Eggs don't increase blood sugar, nor do chicken, raw almonds, onions or green peppers. But a bowl of oatmeal will send your blood sugar skywards. Carbohydrates make you fat. Carbohydrates, whether in the form of wheat flour in your whole wheat bread, sucrose in your ice cream, fructose in your "organic Agave nectar," or high-fructose corn syrup in your dill pickles. They all provoke de novo lipogenesis, or fat formation. They also stimulate insulin, the hormone of fat storage. Carbohydrates cause glycation. High blood sugar, like the kind that develops after a bowl of oatmeal, triggers glycation, or modification of proteins by glucose (blood sugar). This is how cataracts, kidney disease, and atherosclerotic plaque develop. Small LDL is 8-fold more glycation prone than large LDL, providing a carbohydrate double-whammy." I also recommend Good Calories, Bad Calories, by Gary Taubes, which is a well documented indictment of our common wisdom regarding nutrition (ie, things like the preposterous food pyramid). The general point is that not all calories are alike. My own merely personal anecdote: after eliminating all wheat and almost all other carbs from my diet, I lost ~35 points effortlessly. All this while not doing much exercise at all (recent evidence suggests that your body simply adapts to exercise by getting hungrier). I was much hungrier and unhappier on a low fat diet.

jules 16y ago
> (recent evidence suggests that your body simply adapts to exercise by getting hungrier) Interesting. I have experienced the opposite. Exercising reduces my appetite and I have to consciously eat more to avoid losing weight. Do you have references?
- msluyter 16y ago
  Here's the article I was thinking of when I wrote that: http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/04/phys-ed-why-doesnt-exercise-lead-to-weight-loss/ http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/04/phys-ed-why-doesnt-...
  - KirinDave 16y ago
    I read the abstract. How does that imply we shouldn't exercise? It just says that obese people are impaired in their ability to burn fat, which is part of a negative feedback in their lifestyle. If the argument was that exercise alone is sufficient with a totally unrestricted calorie intake, that'd be a good rebuttal. But I don't think anyone has claimed that so far.
    - msluyter 16y ago
      I'm not arguing that you shouldn't exercise, merely that it probably takes more than exercise alone to lose weight. There are many other great reasons to exercise.
    - rsheridan6 16y ago
      Here's a popular press article that addresses this: http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1914857,00.html http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1914857,00.ht... I wonder if it's not more about willpower than appetite. Once you've used your willpower to get yourself to workout, maybe you don't have any left to resist bad food. Unless you're one of those lucky people who actually likes working out.
      - eru 16y ago
        I don't have to will myself to work out. But then, I don't do hours of cardio in the gym, that would really require willpower for me.
        jules 16y ago
        Try cardio outside. Pick a route of the length you want to run and run it. Running in a gym constantly requires willpower to go on, especially when you're getting tired. Running outside only requires to start, but when you're getting tired you are away from your house so you don't really have a choice. Also: fresh air, better temperatures, quiet and better scenery. I run several times a week and it requires almost no willpower, whereas I would definitely not have the willpower to run for an hour on a treadmill even once.
matwood 16y ago
Calories make you fat. The problem with carbs is that they are generally very caloric dense and they are everywhere. Cutting carbs is an easy 'diet for dummies' way of doing it, but I'm going to guess that you put yourself in a caloric deficit by cutting out the carbs, thus experienced weight loss. Just for reference, I eat a ton of carbs are part of my total P/F/C intake and am still cutting down with a goal of 9% BF. The problem with many of these types of books is that the science behind them is very weak. Here is an article where Alan Aragon looks at the problems with the glycemic index (I know you didn't mention it, but it shows the problems with many studies dealing with food). http://alanaragon.com/elements-challenging-the-validity-of-the-glycemic-index.html http://alanaragon.com/elements-challenging-the-validity-of-t... I know I've read an article from him dealing with no carb, but I can't seem to find it right now :/
- briancooley 16y ago
  Insulin + calories make you fat, not just calories. That's why one of the early symptoms of Type I diabetes is uncontrolled weight loss despite increased hunger. Insulin has a very important role in weight control but is often ignored in favor of the calories in - calories out argument, an argument that ignores important factors in weight control (most notably the influence of diet on satiety and metabolic rate).
  - matwood 16y ago
    Insulin is not evil. Studies have shown that proteins elicit the same insulin response. http://www.weightology.net/weightologyweekly/?page_id=319 http://www.weightology.net/weightologyweekly/?page_id=319
- gnaritas 16y ago
  > Calories make you fat. It's not nearly that simple. 2000 calories once a day in one sitting is vastly different than 2000 calories spread evenly over 5 or 6 meals throughout the day. Calories don't make you fat, insulin spikes make you fat, which are caused by too many calories too fast causing your blood sugar to spike.
KirinDave 16y ago
> I don't believe the evidence is on your side. Interesting. I can find a lot of studies on pubmed with dietary restriction comparisons. While I am not a doctor, I'm familiar enough with scientific and academic literature to read papers and work through them. I think you probably can to, so here are a lot of links: 1. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20679559 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20679559 (No difference with carb restrictions vs. fat restrictions) 2. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20663066 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20663066 (Inconsistent results on carb restriction.) 3. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20670466 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20670466 (Medium-term suggests low-fat diets are superior to low-carb diets in obese individuals due to complications). 4. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20571327 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20571327 (Obesity treatment is a maintenance treatment, not a triage) And the final nail I will hammer in your statement today: 5. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20670466 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20670466 The conclusion to this paper is quite germane: Ad lib, low fat, high carbohydrate diet was superior to fixed energy intake for maintaining weight after a major weight loss. The rate of the initial weight loss did not influence long term outcome. It's important to understand that linking to a book or a single doctor's blog is not going to be good evidence. These studies are what good evidence is, because they are evidence instead of hearsay and anecdotes. And please note the dates on these studies, they are not old.
- rubashov 16y ago
  From quickly scanning through those studies I don't think any one of them actually looked at a high fat, low carbohydrate diet. The so-called high fat diet was ~40% calories from fat, and they never defined what kind of fat (soybean oil, known to exacerbate obesity?). That necessarily means it was mostly a carbohydrate diet. Another of the so-called low carb diets is about "low glycemic index vegetables" with a weekly increase in carb serving. One of the studies is about MUFA. Nobody is advocating a high MUFA diet. The key is saturated fat. These links don't add much to the discussion. GCBC rigorously breaks down the entire body of research. It was the product of years of careful review. I suggest you read it.
  - KirinDave 16y ago
Tichy 16y ago
Isn't the cholesterol hysteria a thing of the past? Not saying you are wrong, but who is this William Davies? His blog looks well designed, but that does not automatically make true what he says. A lot of diet products come with great marketing.
listic 16y ago
> My own merely personal anecdote: after eliminating all wheat and almost all other carbs from my diet, I lost ~35 points effortlessly. How would you go about removing carbs from your diet if you DIDN'T want to lose weight (i.e. BMI is always south of the norm)?
- listic 16y ago
  Hey, I'm genuinely interested, not just trolling. I realize that the OP is talking about being OVERweight but you sound like you understand a thing or two about the diet, that's why I ask.

jules 16y ago

> (recent evidence suggests that your body simply adapts to exercise by getting hungrier) Interesting. I have experienced the opposite. Exercising reduces my appetite and I have to consciously eat more to avoid losing weight. Do you have references?

msluyter 16y ago
Here's the article I was thinking of when I wrote that: http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/04/phys-ed-why-doesnt-exercise-lead-to-weight-loss/ http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/04/phys-ed-why-doesnt-...
- KirinDave 16y ago
  I read the abstract. How does that imply we shouldn't exercise? It just says that obese people are impaired in their ability to burn fat, which is part of a negative feedback in their lifestyle. If the argument was that exercise alone is sufficient with a totally unrestricted calorie intake, that'd be a good rebuttal. But I don't think anyone has claimed that so far.
  - msluyter 16y ago
    I'm not arguing that you shouldn't exercise, merely that it probably takes more than exercise alone to lose weight. There are many other great reasons to exercise.
  - rsheridan6 16y ago
    Here's a popular press article that addresses this: http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1914857,00.html http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1914857,00.ht... I wonder if it's not more about willpower than appetite. Once you've used your willpower to get yourself to workout, maybe you don't have any left to resist bad food. Unless you're one of those lucky people who actually likes working out.
    - eru 16y ago
      I don't have to will myself to work out. But then, I don't do hours of cardio in the gym, that would really require willpower for me.
      - jules 16y ago
        Try cardio outside. Pick a route of the length you want to run and run it. Running in a gym constantly requires willpower to go on, especially when you're getting tired. Running outside only requires to start, but when you're getting tired you are away from your house so you don't really have a choice. Also: fresh air, better temperatures, quiet and better scenery. I run several times a week and it requires almost no willpower, whereas I would definitely not have the willpower to run for an hour on a treadmill even once.

matwood 16y ago

Calories make you fat. The problem with carbs is that they are generally very caloric dense and they are everywhere. Cutting carbs is an easy 'diet for dummies' way of doing it, but I'm going to guess that you put yourself in a caloric deficit by cutting out the carbs, thus experienced weight loss. Just for reference, I eat a ton of carbs are part of my total P/F/C intake and am still cutting down with a goal of 9% BF. The problem with many of these types of books is that the science behind them is very weak. Here is an article where Alan Aragon looks at the problems with the glycemic index (I know you didn't mention it, but it shows the problems with many studies dealing with food). http://alanaragon.com/elements-challenging-the-validity-of-the-glycemic-index.html http://alanaragon.com/elements-challenging-the-validity-of-t... I know I've read an article from him dealing with no carb, but I can't seem to find it right now :/

briancooley 16y ago
Insulin + calories make you fat, not just calories. That's why one of the early symptoms of Type I diabetes is uncontrolled weight loss despite increased hunger. Insulin has a very important role in weight control but is often ignored in favor of the calories in - calories out argument, an argument that ignores important factors in weight control (most notably the influence of diet on satiety and metabolic rate).
- matwood 16y ago
  Insulin is not evil. Studies have shown that proteins elicit the same insulin response. http://www.weightology.net/weightologyweekly/?page_id=319 http://www.weightology.net/weightologyweekly/?page_id=319
gnaritas 16y ago
> Calories make you fat. It's not nearly that simple. 2000 calories once a day in one sitting is vastly different than 2000 calories spread evenly over 5 or 6 meals throughout the day. Calories don't make you fat, insulin spikes make you fat, which are caused by too many calories too fast causing your blood sugar to spike.

KirinDave 16y ago

> I don't believe the evidence is on your side. Interesting. I can find a lot of studies on pubmed with dietary restriction comparisons. While I am not a doctor, I'm familiar enough with scientific and academic literature to read papers and work through them. I think you probably can to, so here are a lot of links: 1. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20679559 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20679559 (No difference with carb restrictions vs. fat restrictions) 2. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20663066 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20663066 (Inconsistent results on carb restriction.) 3. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20670466 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20670466 (Medium-term suggests low-fat diets are superior to low-carb diets in obese individuals due to complications). 4. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20571327 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20571327 (Obesity treatment is a maintenance treatment, not a triage) And the final nail I will hammer in your statement today: 5. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20670466 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20670466 The conclusion to this paper is quite germane: Ad lib, low fat, high carbohydrate diet was superior to fixed energy intake for maintaining weight after a major weight loss. The rate of the initial weight loss did not influence long term outcome. It's important to understand that linking to a book or a single doctor's blog is not going to be good evidence. These studies are what good evidence is, because they are evidence instead of hearsay and anecdotes. And please note the dates on these studies, they are not old.

rubashov 16y ago
From quickly scanning through those studies I don't think any one of them actually looked at a high fat, low carbohydrate diet. The so-called high fat diet was ~40% calories from fat, and they never defined what kind of fat (soybean oil, known to exacerbate obesity?). That necessarily means it was mostly a carbohydrate diet. Another of the so-called low carb diets is about "low glycemic index vegetables" with a weekly increase in carb serving. One of the studies is about MUFA. Nobody is advocating a high MUFA diet. The key is saturated fat. These links don't add much to the discussion. GCBC rigorously breaks down the entire body of research. It was the product of years of careful review. I suggest you read it.
- KirinDave 16y ago

Tichy 16y ago

Isn't the cholesterol hysteria a thing of the past? Not saying you are wrong, but who is this William Davies? His blog looks well designed, but that does not automatically make true what he says. A lot of diet products come with great marketing.

listic 16y ago

> My own merely personal anecdote: after eliminating all wheat and almost all other carbs from my diet, I lost ~35 points effortlessly. How would you go about removing carbs from your diet if you DIDN'T want to lose weight (i.e. BMI is always south of the norm)?

listic 16y ago
Hey, I'm genuinely interested, not just trolling. I realize that the OP is talking about being OVERweight but you sound like you understand a thing or two about the diet, that's why I ask.