12 ms·

Brain abnormalities found in victims of US embassy attack in Cuba

EpicBlackCrayon 9y ago
This story just gets weirder and weirder.
mccoyspace 9y ago
This is such a fascinating (and disturbing) situation. And quite mysterious. High frequency ultrasound is used routinely in medicine and has never been shown to change brain tissue. Infrasound has some effect on tissue but its probably overstated. (the infamous 'brown note' [1]. Other sonic weapons rely on volume/amplitude. None of this seems to be the case here. Another really interesting point is the description of the hyper localized nature of the sound -- present in one part of the room and not another. Its really hard to localize a sound signal, as anyone who has worked with parabolic speakers can attest. Yes, there can be focal points, but the sound definitely drifts out to the surrounding areas to a significant degree. One example of hyperlocalized sound perception is Lamont Young's 'Dream House' installation in NYC [2] Although not captured in video documentation, there are distinct and significant microtonal shifts that are easily perceptible as you move through the space caused by standing waves produced through the interaction of the tone generators and the architecture. But this happens within the context of a loud drone that fills the whole room. Not at all what is described by the diplomats and family members. I hope they can get to the bottom of this and I hope that more information is made public. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_note https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_note [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WC6bhnu5Luc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WC6bhnu5Luc
- rdtsc 9y ago
  Can something activate the perception of the sound in the brain, maybe a high intensity ultrasound or another frequency that with enough intensity would activate the hairs in the inner ear or the nerve signals. For something to cause brain damage through the skin and skull bone it would have to be pretty intense I would imagine...
  - ImSkeptical 9y ago
    I believe they have an audio recording of the sound, suggesting it's not purely a brain activation/attack. https://youtu.be/HcI7yYK_6Z8 https://youtu.be/HcI7yYK_6Z8
  - QAPereo 9y ago
    Yes, microwave energy can do pretty much exactly what you're saying, and perhaps other forms of radiation could directly activate nerves as well. It's also possible that if the brain damage includes auditory processing then it could be phantom sounds. It's too many options, too little evidence, but microwaves seem like a good culprit. It doesn't seem too far-fetched that such a system could induce something like a "recording" as well, or that recording could be coincidental. If they had devices in the embassy which required maybe intersecting "beams" of microwaves to power up and transmit, and something went wrong...
- QAPereo 9y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microwave_auditory_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microwave_auditory_effect This is the best bet I've seen since this story broke.
  - rootw0rm 9y ago
    Exactly what I was thinking of too. The company that created MEDUSA (WaveBand Corp) was awarded a DoD grant in 2005 for a 3m^2 "Millimeter Wave Profiling Deployable Dosimeter". https://www.sbir.gov/sbirsearch/detail/349546 https://www.sbir.gov/sbirsearch/detail/349546
  - robg 9y ago
    Hey rootw0rm, all of your comments are autodead. Not sure what you did to deserve it, but this comment is additive here. Contact the admin to have rights restored.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
    - pc86 9y ago
      Just go to the comment click "vouch" and it will go through.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - obelos 9y ago
    Yeah, the descriptions they offer remind me of the few times I've “heard” meteorites plunging through the atmosphere: https://www.theguardian.com/education/2003/oct/23/research.highereducation1 https://www.theguardian.com/education/2003/oct/23/research.h...
  - blattimwind 9y ago
    There is an actual recording of these sounds. Microwaves inducing sounds into a humans perception and at the same time inducing it in recording equipment does not seem plausible. There is also an easy way to test whether the sound is actual sound conducted in air or the effect of microwave exposure: ear plugs.
- dumbneurologist 9y ago
  ultrasound is completely capable of not only affecting brain tissue, but destroying it. as with anything else: it's about the amount of energy you put into it. Focused ultrasound would be completely capable, and share the quality of being perceptable in the targeted region, and absent elsewhere. https://www.fusfoundation.org/diseases-and-conditions/neurological/essential-tremor https://www.fusfoundation.org/diseases-and-conditions/neurol...
  - raverbashing 9y ago
    Yes, but at which frequencies, power and more important, acoustic coupling with the skull?
    - gm-conspiracy 9y ago
      Check out "parametric speakers". Amazon has an assembled kit for sale: http://amzn.to/2AxtPBS http://amzn.to/2AxtPBS Also, more info from soundlazer.com, here: http://www.soundlazer.com/what-is-a-parametric-speaker/ http://www.soundlazer.com/what-is-a-parametric-speaker/ Also, reminds me of the MacGyver (original) episode "Soft Touch"- where a Columbian drug cartel tortures a federal agent in a garage using high-decibel noise.
  - lazerpants 9y ago
    But generating that much energy requires a huge piece of equipment. For example, the unit used for the ablative technique you linked to is quite large and works only at very short distances. [image of device] https://www.israel21c.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/insightec.jpg https://www.israel21c.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/insight...
    - gm-conspiracy 9y ago
      What about multiple devices where their respective waves converge at a specific point?
      - gh02t 9y ago
- blorsh 9y ago
  Ultrasound does damage brain tissue. It has been studied in China, where evidently it was considered ethical to do so. Search terms: China ultrasound study What this does to the population's average mental ability and sanity is an interesting question. Autism is suspected.
rdtsc 9y ago
> As Cuba works to limit damage to its reputation and economy, its government has produced TV specials and an online summit about its own investigation. I guess if is deliberate, it might be interesting to look who would benefit from it? It hurts American diplomats but it also hurts Cuba's position. Would stand to benefit from Cuba looking bad or from hurting the improved relationship between Cuba and US. There was talk of using something like a passive listening device, say something embedded in the walls or furniture that's not powered but has to be activated with a ultrasound beam. Something like The Thing (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thing_(listening_device) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thing_(listening_device) but miniaturized?
- adamnemecek 9y ago
  Russia definitely comes to mind as a country who'd benefit from this.
- kurthr 9y ago
  What's interesting is that we don't even know if this is a screw-up or intentional (and it could be both since multiple parties are involved). It really doesn't seem like an acoustic effect (as raised in the article) and may well be a modulated microwave since that would correspond both to the locality of the "noise" and brain effects. Or it could simply be very high powered. http://www.newsweek.com/russia-us-attack-cuba-officials-649546 http://www.newsweek.com/russia-us-attack-cuba-officials-6495... http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/13/politics/cuba-us-diplomats-acoustic-weapons/index.html http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/13/politics/cuba-us-diplomats-aco... I fully expect a barrage, but based on your question, cui bono... Russia needs to keep the US separate from Cuba. They want the client state that provides a physical base and influence in the US backyard. Why now is another question, but perhaps because they thought they could get away with it now.
  - ImSkeptical 9y ago
    The problem with this analysis is: what does Russia gain by doing this with a sonic mystery weapon? If Russia wanted to divide the US and Cuba by attacking diplomats, wouldn't a sniper be simpler and less obvious? Or paying some Cuban Nationals to physically attack diplomatic staff? Or just use of any known weapon/tool.
d883kd8 9y ago
Sounds like they were poisoned
- pc86 9y ago
  Based on what?
- hwillis 9y ago
  I think its ridiculous that this is being voted down. Heres the situation: 1. Diplomats are experiencing weird physical symptoms. 2. Diplomats are claiming to hear a noise. Yeah, its suspicious, but there still isnt much tying the two together besides the fact that they happen around the same time. Even if they are related, thats still not a good reason to believe 2 is causing 1- its just as plausible to believe there is some kind of surveillance causing the noise and a drug related attack is also being carried out. IMO (and I have experience with high frequency in-air sound) its far more likely than a sonic or EM attack causing the symptoms, but it is at least as plausible.
eqmvii 9y ago
This story is weird and getting weirder, but the important context is how eclectic electronic surveillance is common at diplomatic facilities. It’s possible if not probable that the injuries were a side effect of some other weird electronic espionage effort, rather than the direct objective.
- MengerSponge 9y ago
  I wonder if the injuries are consistent with the "microwave transmitter" theory that's been floated.
  - dboreham 9y ago
    You'd think that anything involving non-ionizing EM radiation would produce symptoms consistent with...cooking.
    - hwillis 9y ago
      It would be, although it can still be pretty weird. Damage can obviously occur far below "cooking" temperature, and it would happen below the surface- in the fattier part of the brain. However you'd expect damage to the eyes first, since they have virtually no blood flow and are extremely vulnerable to heating. I think its way more likely that drugs are the cause of any negative effects, and while sound might have been involved it's probably related to something else.
rootw0rm 9y ago
We probably installed some new top secret microwave based spying equipment in our embassies and accidentally cooked our own diplomats.
MsMowz 9y ago
I think it's interesting that this was immediately framed as an "attack," with of course the implication being that the Cuban government attacked American diplomats, since Cuba has so much to lose from attacking diplomats and literally nothing to gain.
- acdanger 9y ago
  True. But it's also possible that this a deliberate attack carried out by an actor other than the Cuban government.
  - cuckcuckspruce 9y ago
    Or ginning up something to beat the drums of war like the USS Madox[1] or USS Maine[2]. I think it would be hasty to rule out something like Operation Northwoods[3] given the current president's position on Cuba. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Tonkin_incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Tonkin_incident [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Maine_(ACR-1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Maine_(ACR-1) [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods
  - staplers 9y ago
    Like some other government that has historically carried out anti-US operations in Cuba..
    - linsomniac 9y ago
      Do you mean America? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods
      - wybiral 9y ago
        That was a rejected proposal. (There are probably all kinds of crazy military proposals that get rejected)
wybiral 9y ago
Could something like this alter human behavior? Maybe the goal wasn't to cause damage or to attract this much attention but was instead meant to induce erratic behavior or something. (I'm venturing into tin-foil-hat-zone here because this article is really lacking any facts or details about the incident)
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
cambaceres 9y ago
Maybe CIA were testing their new weapon? Diplomats working in Cuba would be the perfect subjects of those tests. CIA would be able to question the victims about the experience and get access to medical records without raising suspicions.
- wybiral 9y ago
  I find it difficult to believe that the CIA would authorize an experiment that causes brain damage in our own active diplomats.
- pfarnsworth 9y ago
  That's absurd. Why would they target diplomats when they could use criminals in foreign countries, or Guantanamo Bay detainees? Why use useful diplomats?
  - dajohnson89 9y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_syphilis_experiment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_syphilis_experiment
    - wybiral 9y ago
      Again, these weren't active diplomats. This was more of an act of racism and terrible ethics by the experimenters. But the backlash from it caused several changes to the law and the formation of commissions to regulate this kind of behavior.
  - cambaceres 9y ago
    Because that is the only way to be able to interview the subjects about how they experienced it without raising suspicions.
    - pfarnsworth 9y ago
      That's a really weak answer. It's more absurd than logical. You can interview criminals and prisoners just as easily.
dgut 9y ago
While the media continues to spread bold claims and sensational articles lacking any facts, a Cuban panel of scientists has concluded the diplomats likely experienced a "collective psychogenic disorder". Stress can change the ratio between white and grey matter in the brain. Currently, there exists only one single publication of the report. [1] I'd also expect the crowd at HN to be better educated than to jump to quick and baseless conclusions. Almost all comments assert a form of attack happened, acoustic and whatnot, despite the lack of details, the crowd's inexpertise in the field, and doubting comments made by actual experts (see Joseph Pompei, Jürgen Altmann). Speculating and guessing isn't very useful. That said, I've visited Cuba and the respective areas (Atabey and Miramar) where the diplomats usually reside and it's a mystery to me how anybody could carry such an operation without anybody noticing any suspicious activity. The area is inhabited by ordinary Cubans and houses tend to be relatively close to each other. To get an idea here is an American diplomat holding a Yard sale before leaving the country: http://cdn.havanatimes.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Yard-sale-1.jpg http://cdn.havanatimes.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Yard-s... [1] http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/12/stressful-conditions-not-sonic-weapon-sickened-us-diplomats-cuba-panel-asserts http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/12/stressful-conditions-...
colanderman 9y ago
Note that the AP claims to have a recording of the sound believed by some to be the cause: https://apnews.com/88bb914f8b284088bce48e54f6736d84 https://apnews.com/88bb914f8b284088bce48e54f6736d84
- wyldfire 9y ago
  > A closer examination of one recording reveals it’s not just a single sound. Roughly 20 or more different frequencies, or pitches, are embedded in it, the AP discovered using a spectrum analyzer, which measures a signal’s frequency and amplitude. Did anyone try decoding it? GMSK, FSK, BPSK, ASK?
  - seandougall 9y ago
    AP filtered—sorry, "enhanced"—it to remove background noise before posting it to Youtube, where it's encoded with lossy compression. So if there was any signal embedded in it, there's a decent chance it's been obliterated.
    - owebmaster 9y ago
      Sure. What a bad coincidence. But let's trust them, as it might be a weapon of mass destruction /s
- dgut 9y ago
  Sounds like crickets you typically hear in Cuba.
Chardok 9y ago
Pure amateur speculation here, especially given the lack of facts, but I wanted to bring up these two studies here on white matter changes. https://utdallas.edu/~sxv140030/Published/134.pdf https://utdallas.edu/~sxv140030/Published/134.pdf https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3496540/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3496540/ Could be possible an unknown infectious vector altering gene expression on the central nervous system?
ACEace 9y ago
There's a longer version of this AP report that includes the below quotes. The fact that there were cases of two people in a room where one heard the sound and the other did not was something I had not seen mentioned before. It was a question I had been curious about and would seem to indicate something different going on - rather than an acoustic weapon unexplained by current science that affects some people but not others. > U.S. officials told the AP that investigators have now determined: > — The most frequently reported sound patients heard was a high-pitched chirp or grating metal. Fewer recalled a low-pitched noise, like a hum. > — Some were asleep and awakened by the sound, even as others sleeping in the same bed or room heard nothing. > — Vibrations sometimes accompanied the sound. Victims told investigators these felt similar to the rapid flutter of air when windows of a car are partially rolled down. > — Those worst off knew right away something was affecting their bodies. Some developed visual symptoms within 24 hours, including trouble focusing on a computer screen.
- CapsAdmin 9y ago
  I still can't help but think all of this are sleep paralysis symptoms. Not being able to focus on a screen sounds like they became drowsy by something? I remember when I took alimemazine once I had severe sleep paralysis. I heard a loud buzzing sound and the day after I felt extremely drowsy. But in the end all we can do is speculate, which is fun I guess. Maybe all of this is really nothing and they're just finding anomalies because they're looking for them.
  - thomble 9y ago
    I too have experienced buzzing and grating sounds and vibrations during sleep paralysis, or during a false awakening. It happened frequently in college when my sleep schedule was broken. I'm skeptical. Part of me thinks that this is mass hysteria.
alphabettsy 9y ago
Russia or US intelligence looking to influence the US-Cuba relationship?
tonybruks 9y ago
That is great!

This story just gets weirder and weirder.

This is such a fascinating (and disturbing) situation. And quite mysterious. High frequency ultrasound is used routinely in medicine and has never been shown to change brain tissue. Infrasound has some effect on tissue but its probably overstated. (the infamous 'brown note' [1]. Other sonic weapons rely on volume/amplitude. None of this seems to be the case here. Another really interesting point is the description of the hyper localized nature of the sound -- present in one part of the room and not another. Its really hard to localize a sound signal, as anyone who has worked with parabolic speakers can attest. Yes, there can be focal points, but the sound definitely drifts out to the surrounding areas to a significant degree. One example of hyperlocalized sound perception is Lamont Young's 'Dream House' installation in NYC [2] Although not captured in video documentation, there are distinct and significant microtonal shifts that are easily perceptible as you move through the space caused by standing waves produced through the interaction of the tone generators and the architecture. But this happens within the context of a loud drone that fills the whole room. Not at all what is described by the diplomats and family members. I hope they can get to the bottom of this and I hope that more information is made public. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_note https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_note [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WC6bhnu5Luc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WC6bhnu5Luc

rdtsc 9y ago
Can something activate the perception of the sound in the brain, maybe a high intensity ultrasound or another frequency that with enough intensity would activate the hairs in the inner ear or the nerve signals. For something to cause brain damage through the skin and skull bone it would have to be pretty intense I would imagine...
- ImSkeptical 9y ago
  I believe they have an audio recording of the sound, suggesting it's not purely a brain activation/attack. https://youtu.be/HcI7yYK_6Z8 https://youtu.be/HcI7yYK_6Z8
- QAPereo 9y ago
  Yes, microwave energy can do pretty much exactly what you're saying, and perhaps other forms of radiation could directly activate nerves as well. It's also possible that if the brain damage includes auditory processing then it could be phantom sounds. It's too many options, too little evidence, but microwaves seem like a good culprit. It doesn't seem too far-fetched that such a system could induce something like a "recording" as well, or that recording could be coincidental. If they had devices in the embassy which required maybe intersecting "beams" of microwaves to power up and transmit, and something went wrong...
QAPereo 9y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microwave_auditory_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microwave_auditory_effect This is the best bet I've seen since this story broke.
- rootw0rm 9y ago
  Exactly what I was thinking of too. The company that created MEDUSA (WaveBand Corp) was awarded a DoD grant in 2005 for a 3m^2 "Millimeter Wave Profiling Deployable Dosimeter". https://www.sbir.gov/sbirsearch/detail/349546 https://www.sbir.gov/sbirsearch/detail/349546
- robg 9y ago
  Hey rootw0rm, all of your comments are autodead. Not sure what you did to deserve it, but this comment is additive here. Contact the admin to have rights restored.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - pc86 9y ago
    Just go to the comment click "vouch" and it will go through.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- obelos 9y ago
  Yeah, the descriptions they offer remind me of the few times I've “heard” meteorites plunging through the atmosphere: https://www.theguardian.com/education/2003/oct/23/research.highereducation1 https://www.theguardian.com/education/2003/oct/23/research.h...
- blattimwind 9y ago
  There is an actual recording of these sounds. Microwaves inducing sounds into a humans perception and at the same time inducing it in recording equipment does not seem plausible. There is also an easy way to test whether the sound is actual sound conducted in air or the effect of microwave exposure: ear plugs.
dumbneurologist 9y ago
ultrasound is completely capable of not only affecting brain tissue, but destroying it. as with anything else: it's about the amount of energy you put into it. Focused ultrasound would be completely capable, and share the quality of being perceptable in the targeted region, and absent elsewhere. https://www.fusfoundation.org/diseases-and-conditions/neurological/essential-tremor https://www.fusfoundation.org/diseases-and-conditions/neurol...
- raverbashing 9y ago
  Yes, but at which frequencies, power and more important, acoustic coupling with the skull?
  - gm-conspiracy 9y ago
    Check out "parametric speakers". Amazon has an assembled kit for sale: http://amzn.to/2AxtPBS http://amzn.to/2AxtPBS Also, more info from soundlazer.com, here: http://www.soundlazer.com/what-is-a-parametric-speaker/ http://www.soundlazer.com/what-is-a-parametric-speaker/ Also, reminds me of the MacGyver (original) episode "Soft Touch"- where a Columbian drug cartel tortures a federal agent in a garage using high-decibel noise.
- lazerpants 9y ago
  But generating that much energy requires a huge piece of equipment. For example, the unit used for the ablative technique you linked to is quite large and works only at very short distances. [image of device] https://www.israel21c.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/insightec.jpg https://www.israel21c.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/insight...
  - gm-conspiracy 9y ago
    What about multiple devices where their respective waves converge at a specific point?
    - gh02t 9y ago
blorsh 9y ago
Ultrasound does damage brain tissue. It has been studied in China, where evidently it was considered ethical to do so. Search terms: China ultrasound study What this does to the population's average mental ability and sanity is an interesting question. Autism is suspected.

rdtsc 9y ago

> As Cuba works to limit damage to its reputation and economy, its government has produced TV specials and an online summit about its own investigation. I guess if is deliberate, it might be interesting to look who would benefit from it? It hurts American diplomats but it also hurts Cuba's position. Would stand to benefit from Cuba looking bad or from hurting the improved relationship between Cuba and US. There was talk of using something like a passive listening device, say something embedded in the walls or furniture that's not powered but has to be activated with a ultrasound beam. Something like The Thing (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thing_(listening_device) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thing_(listening_device) but miniaturized?

adamnemecek 9y ago
Russia definitely comes to mind as a country who'd benefit from this.
kurthr 9y ago
What's interesting is that we don't even know if this is a screw-up or intentional (and it could be both since multiple parties are involved). It really doesn't seem like an acoustic effect (as raised in the article) and may well be a modulated microwave since that would correspond both to the locality of the "noise" and brain effects. Or it could simply be very high powered. http://www.newsweek.com/russia-us-attack-cuba-officials-649546 http://www.newsweek.com/russia-us-attack-cuba-officials-6495... http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/13/politics/cuba-us-diplomats-acoustic-weapons/index.html http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/13/politics/cuba-us-diplomats-aco... I fully expect a barrage, but based on your question, cui bono... Russia needs to keep the US separate from Cuba. They want the client state that provides a physical base and influence in the US backyard. Why now is another question, but perhaps because they thought they could get away with it now.
- ImSkeptical 9y ago
  The problem with this analysis is: what does Russia gain by doing this with a sonic mystery weapon? If Russia wanted to divide the US and Cuba by attacking diplomats, wouldn't a sniper be simpler and less obvious? Or paying some Cuban Nationals to physically attack diplomatic staff? Or just use of any known weapon/tool.

d883kd8 9y ago

Sounds like they were poisoned

pc86 9y ago
Based on what?
hwillis 9y ago
I think its ridiculous that this is being voted down. Heres the situation: 1. Diplomats are experiencing weird physical symptoms. 2. Diplomats are claiming to hear a noise. Yeah, its suspicious, but there still isnt much tying the two together besides the fact that they happen around the same time. Even if they are related, thats still not a good reason to believe 2 is causing 1- its just as plausible to believe there is some kind of surveillance causing the noise and a drug related attack is also being carried out. IMO (and I have experience with high frequency in-air sound) its far more likely than a sonic or EM attack causing the symptoms, but it is at least as plausible.

eqmvii 9y ago

This story is weird and getting weirder, but the important context is how eclectic electronic surveillance is common at diplomatic facilities. It’s possible if not probable that the injuries were a side effect of some other weird electronic espionage effort, rather than the direct objective.

MengerSponge 9y ago
I wonder if the injuries are consistent with the "microwave transmitter" theory that's been floated.
- dboreham 9y ago
  You'd think that anything involving non-ionizing EM radiation would produce symptoms consistent with...cooking.
  - hwillis 9y ago
    It would be, although it can still be pretty weird. Damage can obviously occur far below "cooking" temperature, and it would happen below the surface- in the fattier part of the brain. However you'd expect damage to the eyes first, since they have virtually no blood flow and are extremely vulnerable to heating. I think its way more likely that drugs are the cause of any negative effects, and while sound might have been involved it's probably related to something else.

rootw0rm 9y ago

We probably installed some new top secret microwave based spying equipment in our embassies and accidentally cooked our own diplomats.

MsMowz 9y ago

I think it's interesting that this was immediately framed as an "attack," with of course the implication being that the Cuban government attacked American diplomats, since Cuba has so much to lose from attacking diplomats and literally nothing to gain.

acdanger 9y ago
True. But it's also possible that this a deliberate attack carried out by an actor other than the Cuban government.
- cuckcuckspruce 9y ago
  Or ginning up something to beat the drums of war like the USS Madox[1] or USS Maine[2]. I think it would be hasty to rule out something like Operation Northwoods[3] given the current president's position on Cuba. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Tonkin_incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Tonkin_incident [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Maine_(ACR-1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Maine_(ACR-1) [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods
- staplers 9y ago
  Like some other government that has historically carried out anti-US operations in Cuba..
  - linsomniac 9y ago
    Do you mean America? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods
    - wybiral 9y ago
      That was a rejected proposal. (There are probably all kinds of crazy military proposals that get rejected)

wybiral 9y ago

Could something like this alter human behavior? Maybe the goal wasn't to cause damage or to attract this much attention but was instead meant to induce erratic behavior or something. (I'm venturing into tin-foil-hat-zone here because this article is really lacking any facts or details about the incident)

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

cambaceres 9y ago

Maybe CIA were testing their new weapon? Diplomats working in Cuba would be the perfect subjects of those tests. CIA would be able to question the victims about the experience and get access to medical records without raising suspicions.

wybiral 9y ago
I find it difficult to believe that the CIA would authorize an experiment that causes brain damage in our own active diplomats.
pfarnsworth 9y ago
That's absurd. Why would they target diplomats when they could use criminals in foreign countries, or Guantanamo Bay detainees? Why use useful diplomats?
- dajohnson89 9y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_syphilis_experiment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_syphilis_experiment
  - wybiral 9y ago
    Again, these weren't active diplomats. This was more of an act of racism and terrible ethics by the experimenters. But the backlash from it caused several changes to the law and the formation of commissions to regulate this kind of behavior.
- cambaceres 9y ago
  Because that is the only way to be able to interview the subjects about how they experienced it without raising suspicions.
  - pfarnsworth 9y ago
    That's a really weak answer. It's more absurd than logical. You can interview criminals and prisoners just as easily.

dgut 9y ago

While the media continues to spread bold claims and sensational articles lacking any facts, a Cuban panel of scientists has concluded the diplomats likely experienced a "collective psychogenic disorder". Stress can change the ratio between white and grey matter in the brain. Currently, there exists only one single publication of the report. [1] I'd also expect the crowd at HN to be better educated than to jump to quick and baseless conclusions. Almost all comments assert a form of attack happened, acoustic and whatnot, despite the lack of details, the crowd's inexpertise in the field, and doubting comments made by actual experts (see Joseph Pompei, Jürgen Altmann). Speculating and guessing isn't very useful. That said, I've visited Cuba and the respective areas (Atabey and Miramar) where the diplomats usually reside and it's a mystery to me how anybody could carry such an operation without anybody noticing any suspicious activity. The area is inhabited by ordinary Cubans and houses tend to be relatively close to each other. To get an idea here is an American diplomat holding a Yard sale before leaving the country: http://cdn.havanatimes.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Yard-sale-1.jpg http://cdn.havanatimes.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Yard-s... [1] http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/12/stressful-conditions-not-sonic-weapon-sickened-us-diplomats-cuba-panel-asserts http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/12/stressful-conditions-...

colanderman 9y ago

Note that the AP claims to have a recording of the sound believed by some to be the cause: https://apnews.com/88bb914f8b284088bce48e54f6736d84 https://apnews.com/88bb914f8b284088bce48e54f6736d84

wyldfire 9y ago
> A closer examination of one recording reveals it’s not just a single sound. Roughly 20 or more different frequencies, or pitches, are embedded in it, the AP discovered using a spectrum analyzer, which measures a signal’s frequency and amplitude. Did anyone try decoding it? GMSK, FSK, BPSK, ASK?
- seandougall 9y ago
  AP filtered—sorry, "enhanced"—it to remove background noise before posting it to Youtube, where it's encoded with lossy compression. So if there was any signal embedded in it, there's a decent chance it's been obliterated.
  - owebmaster 9y ago
    Sure. What a bad coincidence. But let's trust them, as it might be a weapon of mass destruction /s
dgut 9y ago
Sounds like crickets you typically hear in Cuba.

Chardok 9y ago

Pure amateur speculation here, especially given the lack of facts, but I wanted to bring up these two studies here on white matter changes. https://utdallas.edu/~sxv140030/Published/134.pdf https://utdallas.edu/~sxv140030/Published/134.pdf https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3496540/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3496540/ Could be possible an unknown infectious vector altering gene expression on the central nervous system?

ACEace 9y ago

There's a longer version of this AP report that includes the below quotes. The fact that there were cases of two people in a room where one heard the sound and the other did not was something I had not seen mentioned before. It was a question I had been curious about and would seem to indicate something different going on - rather than an acoustic weapon unexplained by current science that affects some people but not others. > U.S. officials told the AP that investigators have now determined: > — The most frequently reported sound patients heard was a high-pitched chirp or grating metal. Fewer recalled a low-pitched noise, like a hum. > — Some were asleep and awakened by the sound, even as others sleeping in the same bed or room heard nothing. > — Vibrations sometimes accompanied the sound. Victims told investigators these felt similar to the rapid flutter of air when windows of a car are partially rolled down. > — Those worst off knew right away something was affecting their bodies. Some developed visual symptoms within 24 hours, including trouble focusing on a computer screen.

CapsAdmin 9y ago
I still can't help but think all of this are sleep paralysis symptoms. Not being able to focus on a screen sounds like they became drowsy by something? I remember when I took alimemazine once I had severe sleep paralysis. I heard a loud buzzing sound and the day after I felt extremely drowsy. But in the end all we can do is speculate, which is fun I guess. Maybe all of this is really nothing and they're just finding anomalies because they're looking for them.
- thomble 9y ago
  I too have experienced buzzing and grating sounds and vibrations during sleep paralysis, or during a false awakening. It happened frequently in college when my sleep schedule was broken. I'm skeptical. Part of me thinks that this is mass hysteria.

alphabettsy 9y ago

Russia or US intelligence looking to influence the US-Cuba relationship?

tonybruks 9y ago

That is great!