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As a counterpoint, it seems like everyone under 30 years old does not know how to drive anywhere without navigation assistance. People aren't learning how to re

As a counterpoint, it seems like everyone under 30 years old does not know how to drive anywhere without navigation assistance. People aren't learning how to read a map. Whenever I am in the car with someone else I have to direct them where to go. If you use devices or software to do everything for you, you do not develop any intuition for how things work or where things are.

kllrnohj 9y ago
There's a difference between being able to read a map and having memorized a map. I read maps all the time, be it google maps or even the maps in video games. But I rely entirely on navigation to get places because memorizing a map is not something I find value in. I don't think that's a bad thing, either. This is how thousands of years of social progress happened. We stopped learning how to use sun dials. We stopped learning how to use a sextant. These were replaced by superior implementations and the world moved on to bigger & better things.
dpark 9y ago
> People aren't learning how to read a map. So what? If relying on GPS navigation erodes ability to read a map, doesn't relying on a map also erode ability to navigate by intuition or ability to follow verbal navigation instructions? I actually agree with the claim the heavy use of GPS navigation erodes ability to navigate successfully without it, though I have only anecdotal evidence of this. My own ability to navigate definitely seems to have declined when I started relying on GPS nav frequently, first Garmin/TomTom and now Google maps. But so what? Overall I'm significantly more efficient at navigating now overall. Net net it's a gain, which is the very promise of technology. (Almost) No one laments the decline in ability to type on a manual typewriter that has come from the rise of general purpose computing or the decline in ability to use an abacus or sliderule that has come from the creation of calculators. The loss of these skills is far outweighed by the benefits.
- sliverstorm 9y ago
  Not to take the bait & segue too much, but maps have been a core part of navigation for centuries upon centuries, and they generally teach & augment your own ability to navigate rather than navigate for you. No one misses the technical skill to use a sextant, typewriter, or sliderule. Those things are in a sense just drudgery. But if you lose the ability to navigate, compose, or do math in the process, that's a different story.
  - euyyn 9y ago
    Horses have been a core part of warfare for centuries upon centuries. There's probably plenty of useful skills being a mounted soldier taught you that driving a tank doesn't. Those skills, if they're still useful today, are learned another way.
    - sliverstorm 9y ago
      If horses taught you high level (not horse-specific) military strategy that tanks didn't, then yes there might be an issue at hand.
      - euyyn 9y ago
        Those would be very exceptional horses. And very powerful maps.
- pbhjpbhj 9y ago
  >doesn't relying on a map also erode ability to navigate by intuition // It doesn't, you still use your situational awareness, the same observations (to locate where you are on your map), the same site of direct observations. For me it's like the difference between waking around a building blindfolded following a voice instruction and following a floor plan. In the former case (as for satnav) I'm lost without the aid; in the latter case I can not only navigate the same route but also find places I didn't visit before because I noticed then in passing in order to orient myself. FWIW I use satnav and don't consider it a great wrong, but if I want to know a route or learn about an area then map following is much better.
IshKebab 9y ago
Bullshit. People can still read maps.
- sliverstorm 9y ago
  You'd be surprised. Road maps maybe, given we all still drive and Google Maps is full of them. But topographical maps, for example, are alien to a huge portion of the population. Source: I help teach adults to read topo maps every year
  - ajford 9y ago
    Outside of a narrow range of people (and jobs), how often is a topographical map even relevant to daily life? I can think of two, maybe three times in my entire life I've even had a reason to look at one. It's like saying you need to know how to read aeronautical maps. While a pilot might need to, and maybe those doing balloon based projects or drones might as well, the average person couldn't possibly care less.
icc97 9y ago
I fought against having a GPS in the car for years. It was the biggest single source of arguments with my partner yet still I didn't want to dumb myself with tech. It's most definitely the most helpful device I've ever bought, second to a mobile phone. Switching to a smartphone from my old Nokia didn't improve my life, adding a TomTom in my car did.

kllrnohj 9y ago

There's a difference between being able to read a map and having memorized a map. I read maps all the time, be it google maps or even the maps in video games. But I rely entirely on navigation to get places because memorizing a map is not something I find value in. I don't think that's a bad thing, either. This is how thousands of years of social progress happened. We stopped learning how to use sun dials. We stopped learning how to use a sextant. These were replaced by superior implementations and the world moved on to bigger & better things.

dpark 9y ago

> People aren't learning how to read a map. So what? If relying on GPS navigation erodes ability to read a map, doesn't relying on a map also erode ability to navigate by intuition or ability to follow verbal navigation instructions? I actually agree with the claim the heavy use of GPS navigation erodes ability to navigate successfully without it, though I have only anecdotal evidence of this. My own ability to navigate definitely seems to have declined when I started relying on GPS nav frequently, first Garmin/TomTom and now Google maps. But so what? Overall I'm significantly more efficient at navigating now overall. Net net it's a gain, which is the very promise of technology. (Almost) No one laments the decline in ability to type on a manual typewriter that has come from the rise of general purpose computing or the decline in ability to use an abacus or sliderule that has come from the creation of calculators. The loss of these skills is far outweighed by the benefits.

sliverstorm 9y ago
Not to take the bait & segue too much, but maps have been a core part of navigation for centuries upon centuries, and they generally teach & augment your own ability to navigate rather than navigate for you. No one misses the technical skill to use a sextant, typewriter, or sliderule. Those things are in a sense just drudgery. But if you lose the ability to navigate, compose, or do math in the process, that's a different story.
- euyyn 9y ago
  Horses have been a core part of warfare for centuries upon centuries. There's probably plenty of useful skills being a mounted soldier taught you that driving a tank doesn't. Those skills, if they're still useful today, are learned another way.
  - sliverstorm 9y ago
    If horses taught you high level (not horse-specific) military strategy that tanks didn't, then yes there might be an issue at hand.
    - euyyn 9y ago
      Those would be very exceptional horses. And very powerful maps.
pbhjpbhj 9y ago
>doesn't relying on a map also erode ability to navigate by intuition // It doesn't, you still use your situational awareness, the same observations (to locate where you are on your map), the same site of direct observations. For me it's like the difference between waking around a building blindfolded following a voice instruction and following a floor plan. In the former case (as for satnav) I'm lost without the aid; in the latter case I can not only navigate the same route but also find places I didn't visit before because I noticed then in passing in order to orient myself. FWIW I use satnav and don't consider it a great wrong, but if I want to know a route or learn about an area then map following is much better.

IshKebab 9y ago

Bullshit. People can still read maps.

sliverstorm 9y ago
You'd be surprised. Road maps maybe, given we all still drive and Google Maps is full of them. But topographical maps, for example, are alien to a huge portion of the population. Source: I help teach adults to read topo maps every year
- ajford 9y ago
  Outside of a narrow range of people (and jobs), how often is a topographical map even relevant to daily life? I can think of two, maybe three times in my entire life I've even had a reason to look at one. It's like saying you need to know how to read aeronautical maps. While a pilot might need to, and maybe those doing balloon based projects or drones might as well, the average person couldn't possibly care less.

icc97 9y ago

I fought against having a GPS in the car for years. It was the biggest single source of arguments with my partner yet still I didn't want to dumb myself with tech. It's most definitely the most helpful device I've ever bought, second to a mobile phone. Switching to a smartphone from my old Nokia didn't improve my life, adding a TomTom in my car did.