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Chinese styled censorship is not good for democracy, and not the way forward to a better world. Tim Cook is so busy chasing money, he has lost his principles.

Chinese styled censorship is not good for democracy, and not the way forward to a better world. Tim Cook is so busy chasing money, he has lost his principles. I can't blame him for trying to increase Apple's revenue, but I can dislike what he is promoting intensely. China will change Google and Apple, rather than the other way around.

craftyguy 9y ago
Not to mention manufacturing for many components in Apple products happens in China.. China has the reigns on Apple & Google, not the other way around. This proclamation by Tim is nothing but a weightless PR stunt at best.
- seanmcdirmid 9y ago
  Final assembly occurs in china. Many (probably most) of the components are made outside of china. It is still fairly easy for them to move final assembly to other countries and keep sourcing components from Taiwan, Korea, Japan, and so on. China is much more valuable to Apple for its consumers than its final assembly powress.
  - craftyguy 9y ago
    I think you might be vastly overestimating the value to Apple for having assembly (and sourcing of parts, even if made elsewhere) in China[0]. Apple would absolutely not want to lose that capability, it would drive up costs significantly. 0. https://www.macworld.co.uk/feature/apple/where-are-apple-products-made-3633832/ https://www.macworld.co.uk/feature/apple/where-are-apple-pro...
    - seanmcdirmid 9y ago
      Foxconn (not a Chinese company, fyi) has been building out capacity in other countries, especially India. China doesn’t have as much leverage here as they think, cheap assembly is incredibly portable. China on its own account would rather move up the value chain anyways.
ggg9990 9y ago
Is "democracy" really an unalloyed good now that the Internet has exposed many of the unpatched firmware vulnerabilities in the human mind?
- kelnos 9y ago
  I don't think it's ever been an unalloyed good, but we still haven't found something better, have we? Maybe we will, but until then, we have to at least push toward what we think is the current "best". And Chinese-style authoritarian... is not it.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- godzillabrennus 9y ago
  That's a question you can't even pose about the Chinese system if you live under it. So yes, Democracy is better.
  - posterboy 9y ago
    I'm not sure that's true, especially because it questions democracy, not the Chinese equivalent.
- forapurpose 9y ago
  > the Internet has exposed many of the unpatched firmware vulnerabilities in the human mind These have long been very well known, and in fact those are the problems that democracy is designed to solve: How can humans govern themselves? IIRC, at the dawn of the U.S., it was questioned whether self-governance was possible or whether we needed a king; the question is well answered by now. Democracy takes large groups of flawed humans, the only kind available, and forms them into groups that are more free, more prosperous, more safe, more creative than anything seen in human history. There are about 10,000 years of human history, and the current entire non-democratic world to look at for comparison. All of the most free, prosperous, safe, etc. nations are democracies; the correlation is almost perfect. Even the most free, prosperous regions in China are democratic, Taiwan and Hong Kong. But on a philosophical level, why is a dictator who must be a flawed human - we have no other option - any better than an elected President or Prime Minister who is flawed, or superior to the flawed voters? And how is that dictator selected, without democracy? What better process is there? Why should I submit to their claim of authority - who are they to tell me what to do? Churchill said, reputedly, 'democracy is the worst possible system of government, except for all the others'. (Sorry I don't have time to find or verify the quote.)
perseusprime11 9y ago
Seeing the news coming out of China, I am very dissapointed by Tim’s tone. He is completely overlooking Chinese censorship, hacking the IP of american companies, and the child labor practices.
- cisanti 9y ago
  But they raised the rainbow flag, so apple is good!
hzgy 9y ago
Why can't we blame him? I hear similiar arguments about not criticizing patent lawyers for doing their job. Isn't this a form of moral relativism? It is inherently bad.
- posterboy 9y ago
  OP means, in the least provocative reading, Cook was making a profit, notwithstanding whether profiteering were morally flawed or not.

craftyguy 9y ago

Not to mention manufacturing for many components in Apple products happens in China.. China has the reigns on Apple & Google, not the other way around. This proclamation by Tim is nothing but a weightless PR stunt at best.

seanmcdirmid 9y ago
Final assembly occurs in china. Many (probably most) of the components are made outside of china. It is still fairly easy for them to move final assembly to other countries and keep sourcing components from Taiwan, Korea, Japan, and so on. China is much more valuable to Apple for its consumers than its final assembly powress.
- craftyguy 9y ago
  I think you might be vastly overestimating the value to Apple for having assembly (and sourcing of parts, even if made elsewhere) in China[0]. Apple would absolutely not want to lose that capability, it would drive up costs significantly. 0. https://www.macworld.co.uk/feature/apple/where-are-apple-products-made-3633832/ https://www.macworld.co.uk/feature/apple/where-are-apple-pro...
  - seanmcdirmid 9y ago
    Foxconn (not a Chinese company, fyi) has been building out capacity in other countries, especially India. China doesn’t have as much leverage here as they think, cheap assembly is incredibly portable. China on its own account would rather move up the value chain anyways.

ggg9990 9y ago

Is "democracy" really an unalloyed good now that the Internet has exposed many of the unpatched firmware vulnerabilities in the human mind?

kelnos 9y ago
I don't think it's ever been an unalloyed good, but we still haven't found something better, have we? Maybe we will, but until then, we have to at least push toward what we think is the current "best". And Chinese-style authoritarian... is not it.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
godzillabrennus 9y ago
That's a question you can't even pose about the Chinese system if you live under it. So yes, Democracy is better.
- posterboy 9y ago
  I'm not sure that's true, especially because it questions democracy, not the Chinese equivalent.
forapurpose 9y ago
> the Internet has exposed many of the unpatched firmware vulnerabilities in the human mind These have long been very well known, and in fact those are the problems that democracy is designed to solve: How can humans govern themselves? IIRC, at the dawn of the U.S., it was questioned whether self-governance was possible or whether we needed a king; the question is well answered by now. Democracy takes large groups of flawed humans, the only kind available, and forms them into groups that are more free, more prosperous, more safe, more creative than anything seen in human history. There are about 10,000 years of human history, and the current entire non-democratic world to look at for comparison. All of the most free, prosperous, safe, etc. nations are democracies; the correlation is almost perfect. Even the most free, prosperous regions in China are democratic, Taiwan and Hong Kong. But on a philosophical level, why is a dictator who must be a flawed human - we have no other option - any better than an elected President or Prime Minister who is flawed, or superior to the flawed voters? And how is that dictator selected, without democracy? What better process is there? Why should I submit to their claim of authority - who are they to tell me what to do? Churchill said, reputedly, 'democracy is the worst possible system of government, except for all the others'. (Sorry I don't have time to find or verify the quote.)

perseusprime11 9y ago

Seeing the news coming out of China, I am very dissapointed by Tim’s tone. He is completely overlooking Chinese censorship, hacking the IP of american companies, and the child labor practices.

cisanti 9y ago
But they raised the rainbow flag, so apple is good!

hzgy 9y ago

Why can't we blame him? I hear similiar arguments about not criticizing patent lawyers for doing their job. Isn't this a form of moral relativism? It is inherently bad.

posterboy 9y ago
OP means, in the least provocative reading, Cook was making a profit, notwithstanding whether profiteering were morally flawed or not.