13 ms·

Can the new Firefox Quantum regain its web browser market share?

207 points by amosbatto 9y ago

campuscodi 9y ago
No. Most of today's users are using mobiles to surf the web. The new Firefox version is a gamechanger on desktop, but on par with Chrome and other mobile browsers.
- polotics 9y ago
  As a mobile browser I was disappointed that control of font size and text reflow / zoom does even less than chrome
- buster 9y ago
  BUT Quantum is also coming to mobile. Nevertheless, i've already switched to Firefox on desktop and mobile and i'm extremely happy with it after years of Chromium usage.
  - irrational 9y ago
    Maybe on Android, but it's not possible to run a different browser on iOS. Well, you can install another browser, but it is really just a different interface for the Safari browser. The guts of the browser will still be Safari.
    - nicoburns 9y ago
      True. This hasn't stopped Chrome though.
      - lucideer 9y ago
        It hasn't stopped either Chrome or Firefox[0] from releasing Safari skins on the AppStore, but unfortunately neither are actually Chrome[1] or Firefox[2] [0] https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/firefox-web-browser/id989804926 https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/firefox-web-browser/id989804... [1] https://blog.chromium.org/2017/01/open-sourcing-chrome-on-ios.html https://blog.chromium.org/2017/01/open-sourcing-chrome-on-io... [2] https://blog.mozilla.org/futurereleases/2015/05/22/update-on-firefox-for-ios/ https://blog.mozilla.org/futurereleases/2015/05/22/update-on...
- seren 9y ago
  On mobile, I prefer Firefox + uBlock to Chrome.
- NikolaeVarius 9y ago
  I hold that Brave is the best browser on mobile. Followed by Lighting browser.
- lucideer 9y ago
  For me, Quantum is the first usable Firefox version on mobile. I've been trialing various versions of it over the years in desperate hope that it would get to a usable state, because the mobile browser ecosystem is bleak other than Firefox - it's the only browser with actual features I want. I was only held back from it by performance. So in that sense, I'd say it's a complete gamechanger on mobile, much more than on desktop.
  - seren 9y ago
    And yet all the Quantum code is not yet on Firefox Android 57, so it will get actually better quickly.
    - bobajeff 9y ago
      Yeah but it's still noticably more usable because of the UI change in this release. It basically looks more like Chrome for Android; where as before it looked like a Android Cupcake app.
- y_u_no_rust 9y ago
  People still use smartphones? LOL
- CapsAdmin 9y ago
  The biggest selling point for me with firefox on android is the ability to use an adblocker. There's no way I'm going to consider using chrome on android unless it supports extensions like ublock and whatnot.
  - KozmoNau7 9y ago
    UBlock Origin in dynamic mode is absolutely essential, I will not use a browser where it is not available. So that means Firefox on mobile, and it makes browsing much less aggravating.
dsff56 9y ago
I stopped using firefox since they are delivering cliqz with every 100th download which will analyze and store your browsing history and is a shame for the mozilla foundation. I'm using waterfox now btw...
- fugg181 9y ago
  I thought this guy was nuts but he's correct: https://blog.mozilla.org/press-uk/2017/10/06/testing-cliqz-in-firefox/ https://blog.mozilla.org/press-uk/2017/10/06/testing-cliqz-i...
- mikejarema 9y ago
  This threw me off, I really didn't expect Mozilla to bundle in something like this. However, here's the info, straight from the source: https://blog.mozilla.org/press-uk/2017/10/06/testing-cliqz-in-firefox/ https://blog.mozilla.org/press-uk/2017/10/06/testing-cliqz-i... Looks like < 1% of installs in Germany will get this preinstalled. Here's how to remove if you're one of the unlucky ones: https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/cliqz-recommendations-firefox#w_disable-or-uninstall-cliqz-recommendations https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/cliqz-recommendations-f... Finally, Cliqz has a Firefox Test Pilot program (German-only): https://testpilot.firefox.com/experiments/cliqz https://testpilot.firefox.com/experiments/cliqz
  - tinus_hn 9y ago
    It’s opt-out as well. I wonder if this is actually legal in Germany, they have pretty strict laws.
- dcow 9y ago
  But at least Mozilla is up front and transparent about what it's doing. I'd love to know the extent of what Google/Chrome is doing...
  - forapurpose 9y ago
    > Mozilla is up front and transparent about what it's doing A statement in a blog that only a tiny percentage of users will read is not at all transparent. Do users who receive browsers with Cliqz get a clear, effective opt-out warning? Really, it should be opt-in but that doesn't appear to be the case: The users will receive a version of Firefox with Cliqz recommendations enabled out of the box. https://blog.mozilla.org/press-uk/2017/10/06/testing-cliqz-in-firefox/ https://blog.mozilla.org/press-uk/2017/10/06/testing-cliqz-i...
LeoJiWoo 9y ago
Quantum was annoying enough to kill Firefox for me completely. I've completely shifted. EDIT: Added explanation The big issue is I often switch between Browsers for work. So I often switch between Chrome, Firefox, and Opera with custom extensions for my workflow. With the amount of choice, I don't need to stick with a browser that makes my life harder than easier. Chrome is my main browser now, it was already getting close to majority usage for me.
- ancarda 9y ago
  What did you switch to? Was it due to extensions?
  - nwah1 9y ago
    I feel like there's a lot of anti-Mozilla trolls on this particular comments section. Compared to most other articles on HN, it just doesn't align with the views I've heard elsewhere, and certainly doesn't align with my experience as a happy Firefox user.
    - rnhmjoj 9y ago
      I have been using Firefox for about 5 years, I'm still using it and despite that I'm anti-Mozilla. The browser performance has always been fine to me and 57 doesn't look particularly "faster" as they are advertising it. I'm one of the dozen people that care about a browser being user configurable and not doing any analytics, telemetry, experiments,... . Mozilla has lately been working exactly against this. I have about 80KB of patch files just to remove all the crap Mozilla managed to stuff into an otherwise perfect browser like: advertisements, telemetry, more data sharing, geolocation using google servers, a social network and proprietary binary blobs for service integration. When I build a clean version of Firefox then I'm happy too.
    - kk_cz 9y ago
      How do you tell "anti-Mozilla troll" from a genuinely dissapointed user? I'm currently on FF ESR, once my favorite extentsions stop working there I might as well switch the browser completely, since my UX will be completely reset just as it would be with a entirely different browser. I'm not saying I will switch to something else (other browsers seem equally unusable to me as FF57 is currently), but I will certainly try all the options to find out if something else isn't at least marginally better than FF57.
needz 9y ago
Firefox Quantum kills the battery on my Macbook. I love it otherwise.
- dao- 9y ago
  Are you using scaled resolution? Then it's a known issue that is being investigated and will hopefully be fixed soon: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1404042 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1404042
  - needz 9y ago
    I was using scaled resolution. Switched to default; will report back. Edit: Been at 100% for 10 minutes. Much, much better. If anyone knows how to set default zoom on Firefox it'd be greatly appreciated.
    - dao- 9y ago
      Try setting layout.css.devPixelsPerPx to e.g. 2 in about:config?
      - needz 9y ago
        Didn't have any noticeable effect for me.
        dao- 9y ago
        Well, maybe it already was 2 by default (-1.0 means auto-detect). Maybe try different values.
dsp1234 9y ago
This morning I came into work to a sluggish FF browser. One of the FF processes was using 1.6GB of memory, and one entire core of CPU. I had 1 pinned and 5 normal tabs open. I'm not particularly impressed with the reality of the new FF.
rem1313 9y ago
It is not as fast as advertised. It is not even 'fast', composing emails in Google Inbox web app is laggy AF...
- dcow 9y ago
  That's funny because gmail on Quantum was actually the final straw for me. I was liking what I was seeing trying Quantum out and then I loaded up gmail and boom it worked and looked better than gmail on Chrome and I was sold.
- mistahchris 9y ago
  Google Inbox web app is laggy af in Chrome for me, honestly. I use it for work. I'm on Firefox Nightly and it's super fast everywhere except for the Google Web Apps (which aren't butter smooth on any browser, even Chrome).
mtgx 9y ago
It can, but Quantum was basically just the very start of that journey. They'll need to try and keep one step ahead of Chrome with every release. If they can do that, they'll rebuild the following.
greenhouse_gas 9y ago
No, because people don't switch to the best product, that switch away from the worst. People went to Firefox because it was head and shoulders better than IE6 for regular use - popup blocking and tabbed browsing were the most obvious examples, but even then (and being advertised on Google's front page), it only for about 35% of the market. Now let's say it'll be a bit faster than Chrome. Let's say it'll be twice faster than Chrome, with better deep extensions coming back, it won't make a difference. Chrome is too usable.
- dcow 9y ago
  I switched to the new Firefox and removed chrome because I tried it and liked it better, not because Chrome is the worst. Also I'm curious how people went from Firefox to Chrome in the first place using your "move away from the worst" logic. Certainly something else happened there or FF was much worst than I remember.
  - Veen 9y ago
    But most people aren't even going to try Firefox. Unless Google do something seriously stupid with Chrome, the average user has no incentive to move. Chrome is good enough.
    - squid_ca 9y ago
      I don't know, I feel like many people started using Chrome because technical-minded folk recommended it to them (certainly, I told many family members to switch to it). So, maybe the same thing will happen with Firefox (I have just switched from Chrome to Firefox and am prepared to recommend it as someone's default browser).
      - addicted 9y ago
        Looking towards technical minded relatives and friends definitely helped, but what really pushed Chrome over the top IMO was Google.com, Gmail, Youtube, Google Docs, Google Calendar, Hangouts, etc. all insisting you must use Chrome.
topranks 9y ago
Nothing but negative comments here. Longtime FF user but I gotta say the new version is great. MUCH faster than the old version or Chrome. Great work Mozilla. Feck the begruders!
- maltalex 9y ago
  You're missing the point. The negative comments are about the market share. No one is saying anything negative about Firefox or Mozilla.
  - fasquoika 9y ago
    The comment literally directly below this one is about how awful new Firefox is for breaking their add-ons...
- betterunix2 9y ago
  Yeah, nothing like waking up one day and discovering that my add-ons have all been disabled...
  - KozmoNau7 9y ago
    All of them? Really?
    - betterunix2 9y ago
      Yes, really. Why should that surprise you? The majority of XUL extensions had not been ported to WebExtensions when Mozilla pushed this update and Mozilla was well aware of that fact. This was executed poorly and Mozilla deserves to be criticized for it.
      - LocutusOfBorges 9y ago
        Mozilla gave extension authors multiple years of notice. I don't see what else they could have done, realistically speaking.
muxator 9y ago
Firefox on Andorid works flawlessly for me. Plus, it's worth repeating that Firefox sync works without problem across desktop and mobile. The sync [0] and auth [1] servers are open source, and one could choose to use one or both on his premises. IIRC, browser synchronization was a thing on Firefox well before it landed on chrome. [0] https://mozilla-services.readthedocs.io/en/latest/howtos/run-sync-1.5.html https://mozilla-services.readthedocs.io/en/latest/howtos/run... [1] https://mozilla-services.readthedocs.io/en/latest/howtos/run-fxa.html https://mozilla-services.readthedocs.io/en/latest/howtos/run...
- space_fountain 9y ago
  I've switched entirely to Firefox, but I have had some issues where I input an address on Android and the Browser doesn't navigate.
  - janneklouman 9y ago
    Unfortunately I had the same issue on my Android phone - every time I re-opened the app I had to open a new tab in order to browse. I ended up installing and using Firefox Nightly instead (where the issue seems to be resolved).
  - joelthelion 9y ago
    Have you tried again since 57 was released? Or tried nightly? I've been using Firefox on mobile for a long time, and I remember experiencing similar issues from time to time, but I haven't had these in a while. FWIW, closing tabs once in a while can also help. Mobiles typically don't have too much RAM.
  - anderspitman 9y ago
    Had a similar issue recently. Reinstalling the app seems to have fixed it.
  - wolco 9y ago
    I had a similiar issue with chrome
- 9y ago
k__ 9y ago
I think it's pretty rad, but some nontechnical people who use FF for years now say they didn't notice much, just that the have to learn a new UI
blauditore 9y ago
Well, large parts of Chrome's market share is caused by their aggressive marketing, which is likely quite effective with casual users. And those probably won't switch for performance or privacy reasons.
nly 9y ago
I'm holding on to FF56 until an equivalent to my beloved tab tree extension[0] is available [0] https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/tab-tree/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/tab-tree/
- kronos29296 9y ago
  IIRC Hasn't some of them already been ported? (Tree tab and Tree style tab) Maybe you can try the alternatives.
- sldenazis 9y ago
  Did you see this https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15342362 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15342362 ?
- pletnes 9y ago
  Tree style tabs work ok on FF57. I expect it to become more polished with time though.
- sundarurfriend 9y ago
  I'm in a similar boat waiting for decent alternatives to 'Speed Dial' and 'FireGestures' addons. The existing 'VimFx' replacements like Saka Key are also only partially there in terms of features. I'm wary of switching to Waterfox because it's a single developer project and might be more buggy than it seems from the outside, but I might end up there after all, if equivalent addons don't rise up.
ianlevesque 9y ago
I tried it for a week hoping to reduce the amount of swapping my laptop did during a normal workday. It wasn’t any better than chrome unfortunately and due to the lack of workaround extensions like the Great Suspender it was actually worse.
- megiddo 9y ago
  I found it worse. I was playing process kill whackamole for a week.
  - switchbak 9y ago
    I'm in the same boat, but the progress they have been making as of late is really impressive, and it was markedly better than the last time I tried it. Will probably try again in another 6-8 months. I have problems with Chrome eating tons of memory, hoping the new FF gets a lot leaner (and robust) as their newer tech gets integrated. Plus, the blog posts on their usage of Rust are really fun to read!
- r3bl 9y ago
  Have you tried Tab suspender[0]? A couple of hours ago, I've had about 25 tabs opened, about 20 of which were suspended. Just for the heck of it, I've checked the memory usage of Firefox. 500 megabytes. [0] https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/tab-suspender-tab-unloader/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/tab-suspender...
osrec 9y ago
Generally, the new FF is great. One small criticism - their GPU accelerated CSS animations are a bit choppy on mobiles (these a generally very smooth on chrome and Safari).
- muizelaar 9y ago
  What platform? Do you have an example url?
  - osrec 9y ago
    I tried it on Android, but a few of my app's users complained and a lot of them use iOS. You can try it out at https://usebx.com/app https://usebx.com/app - just click try demo to get to where the animation is. You'll find the page transitions are not quite as smooth in Firefox when compared with Chrome or Safari.
    - Sylos 9y ago
      Well, as it says in the article, Firefox and Chrome on iOS are both just WebKit wrappers, because Apple doesn't allow other browser engines into their store, so I don't know what kind of black magic or bias or whatnot your users are experiencing. As for Android, the new CSS engine (called "Quantum CSS" or "Stylo"), which landed with Firefox 57 on the desktop, should ship on Android with Firefox 59. There's also "Quantum Render" or "WebRender" upcoming somewhen soonish. I'm guessing Firefox 60 or 61 on the desktop, so maybe again with a small delay then on Android, I don't know. WebRender should be kind of a big deal. In extreme cases, the difference can look like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0hYIRQRiws https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0hYIRQRiws
  - osrec 9y ago
    Also, noticed another thing - on Android, using FF nightly, I couldn't access a local network URL via FF (Unable to connect message), but could with Chrome - example URL http://10.0.130.64/path http://10.0.130.64/path
    - 9y ago
cdevs 9y ago
Long time Firefox user every since I left safari I tried Firefox and chrome and didn't like chrome at all. Now I only run some linux with Firefox but have chrome only as a back up to test or if YouTube has a glitchy anti Firefox day.
rebelwebmaster 9y ago
Firefox' path to market share growth has to go through mobile. How to get users to switch from preinstalled good-enough Chrome is the tough nut to crack, though.
- mst 9y ago
  I wonder if the EU will start to consider the situations with iOS and Android equivalent to Microsoft bundling IE ... giving users an obvious post-install choice might help a lot.
  - gsnedders 9y ago
    Neither iOS nor Android are over 90% marketshare, as Windows was at the time of the anti-trust bundling case.
TAForObvReasons 9y ago
The privacy-conscious / anti-Google crowd isn't large enough to move the needle. For Firefox to regain market share, one of two things must happen: 1) Google makes a really poor decision (e.g. disabling ad blockers, charging $$) 2) Mozilla partners with existing web apps or they build their own web apps with extra value that is only available in Firefox (in the same way that Google sites generally perform better on Chrome than FF)
- jeffdavis 9y ago
  Or, they make a really good product that people want. That seems to be their current approach, which is hard to argue with.
  - pessimizer 9y ago
    > That seems to be their current approach What evidence do you have of this? As far as I can tell, their strategy has been to 1) imitate Chrome and 2) get faster. I don't know that people wanted them to imitate Chrome and get faster, and I would cite the fact that millions have uninstalled it over that period, and installed Chrome.
    - viraptor 9y ago
      I remember when Chrome has started their project. People were mainly switching because: tabs crashed independently from the browser, and it was way faster than Firefox. You don't need much to get people to switch.
      - pessimizer 9y ago
        At the beginning, yes, and the process separation was heavily marketed so people were switching for that reason even if there was actually no material benefit that would show up in their own typical usage. But on the other side, those early switchers had no reason to stay with firefox because they weren't heavy add-on users, and both browsers were nominally open source and anti-IE. I think the bleeding of users from Firefox over time, however, has been because of a Chrome inspired cycle of constant add-on breakages, removals of configuration options, and UI changes towards a Chrome look, with each breakage and change removing a distinction between the two browsers that would keep a user from switching. Additionally as the add-on breakages were happening, Chrome was expanding their library of add-ons, further removing distinction between the two browsers, and in some cases, such as developer tools, gaining the upper hand. I think it's important to note that this latest firefox move was not only a move to render it incompatable with its own library of add-ons, but to adopt Chrome's library as its own. The multiprocess functionality that it is now touting was a response to Chrome's own multiprocess functionality. The UI is now completely indistinct from Chrome's. For every add-on that didn't make it over, there's 1000 users for whom that add-on was keeping them from switching to Chrome. All of the UI manipulating add-ons represented ingrained habits that 1000 users really didn't want to change, so they were bound to firefox. At the point of this version change, upgrading firefox or moving to Chrome has exactly the same amount of friction. The only way Firefox can compete with Chrome now that they're indistinguishable is on marketing, and I'm fairly sure that Google is the biggest advertising company in the world. I suspect that this has been intentional. Firefox is again financially dependent on Google. This was as precipitous a fall as the Elop-headed Nokia.
shmerl 9y ago
I think currently, market share isn't dictated by quality, but more by pushing stuff on users (Google is really obnoxious with it). So it's not as much of a technical problem, as a marketing one. May be mandating browser choice for mobile devices could help it, including forcing Apple to remove the ban on competing browsers, which really should have been tackled by anti-trust a long time ago.
bluedino 9y ago
Maybe they need to strike deals to come preisntalled with systems or other software? A browser is just a "the internet" to a majority of people.
- paprikka 9y ago
  I used to work with a developer who'd preach the "IceWeasel is the ultimate browser" gospel to us. I guess this makes your argument somehow more valid:) OS might be hard, as Win and Mac have their own browsers, so my first guess would be Linux or security focused builds of Android. This doesn't sound like enough exposure to make a significant/disruptive change. I expect Mozilla to be more active in this area though. Yes, performance is important and I switched to FF recently too, but I'm still using Electron powered apps on my MacBook. What's more plausible is a situation where Chrome for some reason (ekhm... privacy?) loses market share to FF/IE/Safari. Having more competition will make my browser better, regardless of my choice.
  - JetSpiegel 9y ago
    > Linux Firefox is the default browser in virtually all distros, even Debian. As for Android, to make a difference it would need to be installed in Gapps-by-default phones, so Google would have to concede. Maybe if the EU hits them with an antitrust lawsuit Microsoft-style, otherwise it's not gonna happen.
gator-io 9y ago
Browser share trends with bot traffic removed: https://truemarketshare.com https://truemarketshare.com We may post some daily numbers after the holidays.
einrealist 9y ago
Well, it got my market share back. I really like the new version. And I am glad to have switched back from Chrome, because I really like what Mozilla is doing - not just with Firefox.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
zitterbewegung 9y ago
Yes
clw8 9y ago
After my first few hours using desktop Quantum I thought for sure I was switching away from Chrome. But then videos stopped playing (audio would play and the video would just be black) and didn't work again until restarting the browser. And then it just kept happening every time it had been open for a couple hours. Back to Chrome for now.
- acdha 9y ago
  Did you report the problem? Given how many video-related problems end up being caused by drivers that seems like it'd be a potential entry on the blacklist.
- lilbobbytables 9y ago
  Video is wonky for me in FF as well. Like, issues where it's glitchy or the video freezes but the audio is still playing. With Chrome on OS X I've got pretty used a more or less flawless video experience - kind of forgot what it used to be like.
robertlagrant 9y ago
Does the new Firefox have a password sync feature like Chrome's? I'd much rather trust Mozilla with that sort of thing (especially if I could host my own backend to it somewhere) than Google. As an aside, one silly thing that tarnished Mozilla's brand for me was the treatment of Brendan Eich. I may not agree with his donation of money but I think impinging on his rights is a far more fundamental immorality than what he was accused of. It's like Twitter's controversy over blue ticks. If they'd only given them as a result of identity verification, and not used them to indicate Twitter's approval of someone's beliefs, then they wouldn't be where they are now. Stick to good tech and fighting for relevant causes, e.g. net neutrality, I say.
- rebelwebmaster 9y ago
  The thing with Brendan happened ~3 years ago now. A lot of the leadership that was there at the time is gone now. How long should Mozilla be punished for that?
  - robertlagrant 9y ago
    No one is being punished - I'm not their parent not their government. Which is sort of my original concern. Mozilla was neither of those things to Brendan Eich, and yet more and more we see employers and influencers behaving as though they are.
    - ChrisSD 9y ago
      I don't mean to rehash old arguments but in his position he was representing Mozilla. And Mozilla is an advocacy organisation with a deep interest in policy. They aren't just a browser maker; Firefox is merely their most widely known campaign. If the organisation felt he didn't represent them then it doesn't make sense for him to be CEO. It would have been less of an issue if he were in a more purely technical role.
      - robertlagrant 9y ago
        That's my point - I don't want them to spend their money on being a general-purpose morality organisation. I want a browser maker who specifically argues for the most foundational and important of needs regarding the internet. I don't want a social justice crusader who values PR above all.
popee 9y ago
Just installed 57 to give it a try. Damn it's friking good, gj mozilla!
mrolla 9y ago
I have been using Firefox again for a while now after completing my Google exit and I’m enjoying every single day with Quantum. The real game changer for me was the introduction of container though. I only wish they also had separated history.
tolien 9y ago
> Firefox can take comfort in the fact that it is now virtually tied with its former arch-nemesis, Internet Explorer and its variants. Instead of an IE monoculture, we now have a WebKit/Blink one: Chrome: 54.57% Safari: 14.59% Alibaba UC Browser: 7.86% Opera: 3.89% Samsung Internet: 3.41% Android: 1.90% That's a total of 86.22%. Plus ça change.
raincom 9y ago
Mozilla should fix battery drain issues on Macbooks. I used FireFox Quantum for a couple weeks and dumped it y'day due to its battery abuse.
- dao- 9y ago
  Let me paste my answer to another user reporting (seemingly) the same issue: Are you using scaled resolution? Then it's a known issue that is being investigated and will hopefully be fixed soon: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1404042 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1404042
  - raincom 9y ago
    I did not change any default settings for FF 57. Just checked the config: layout.css.devPixelsPx, default, string, -1.0 Edit: Checked the screen resolution as well: it is default, but not scaled.
mpg515 9y ago
FFQ is my new daily driver for regular browsing but I will still be developing with Chrome
arthurfm 9y ago
> Even worse is Google’s policy of prohibiting the installation of 3rd party web browsers on Chrome OS devices. Firefox simply can’t be installed on any Chromebook. The Android version of Firefox can be installed on Chrome OS though.
maephisto 9y ago
No, no chance Firefox could get back to owning 20% or 30% again. Just look around you, how many of the people you know made the switch? Most of the people I know gave the new FF a try, concluded that it's fine and got back to Chrome. Right now, there's just no reason to switch. Also, everybody's going about FF consuming less memory than Chrome, but in my short personal test there was no real difference.
cygx 9y ago
Note that while Chrome is currently the top browser in Germany, it's still not as big as Firefox used to be: https://imgur.com/a/dx5n8 https://imgur.com/a/dx5n8 wishes Mozilla luck in reversing the downward trend
cmurf 9y ago
I've been using Firefox Focus on Android for most things, and if they don't work then I use regular Firefox. I rarely have to use Chrome.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
kk_cz 9y ago
Non-tech folks don't care about rendering engine. They might fall for tons of advertisment that Chrome had or they might be force-fed a new browser with a new computer or OS purchase, none of these things are going to happen for FF. Tech folks might care about shiny new engine, but they are also more likely to care about their favorite extensions not working anymore. I personally wouldn't be surprised if FF actually lost some share in the long run, but that's just my dissapointment talking. I know for certain that if something like waterfox keeps old extensions running I will gladly give up Quantum for a better UX.
- Gaelan 9y ago
  "New engine" may not matter, but "fast" probably does.
  - kk_cz 9y ago
    My experience is anecdotal of course, but IMHO "fast" is something tech savy users are looking for. "Which one is the Internet" or "I know this icon from a big shiny ad" is how non-tech folks function. Full disclaimer: Years spent supporting end users might have negatively affected my view of the "average user".
    - Sylos 9y ago
      Yeah, I do think your view is a bit skewed. There's an ever-growing number of users that grew up with computers, who know at least how to install a different program on their own, despite most definitely not being a techie either. And even among techies, I think you overestimate how many actually care about much else than "fast" when it comes to a browser. Just look at how many techies run Chrome. It's usually not the most wizardly of techies, but a good number of techies either way.
mattkevan 9y ago
The new version of Firefox is great. And a massive improvement over previous versions. However I think Mozilla have a lot of work to do. Desktop browsing is pretty much legacy at this point so convincing mobile users to use something other than the default browser will be hard. I work on a site with 8 figure monthly unique visits and the browser stats are startling. iOS Safari had about 51%, Chrome mobile & desktop about 35%, Samsung browser at 7%. Nothing else has over 2-3%. Edge, for example, is a rounding error.
have_faith 9y ago
I love FireFox, it's been my primary browser for many years but this is a drop in the bucket of what would make a regular user switch browsers.
justinzollars 9y ago
So happy with Firefox and the Open Web concept. I've completely switched and happy to stop using Google and Apple products. #openweb
beausy 9y ago
Everyone keeps talking about how Firefox is faster than Chrome, but for me Chrome is night and day faster at rendering. And that's comparing Chrome with about a dozen extensions vs a fresh install of Quantum. And yes, that's without cache
andyhoang 9y ago
still check if pitch to zoom available every week from FF. My eyes is not good without zooming :(
JoshMnem 9y ago
For anyone that thought that Microsoft was changing its ways, that should be a big warning: > Even worse, the new Windows 10 S operating system prohibits the installation of any apps which do not come from the Windows Store, so it is impossible to install Firefox on devices running Windows 10 S.

207 points by amosbatto 9y ago

No. Most of today's users are using mobiles to surf the web. The new Firefox version is a gamechanger on desktop, but on par with Chrome and other mobile browsers.

polotics 9y ago
As a mobile browser I was disappointed that control of font size and text reflow / zoom does even less than chrome
buster 9y ago
BUT Quantum is also coming to mobile. Nevertheless, i've already switched to Firefox on desktop and mobile and i'm extremely happy with it after years of Chromium usage.
- irrational 9y ago
  Maybe on Android, but it's not possible to run a different browser on iOS. Well, you can install another browser, but it is really just a different interface for the Safari browser. The guts of the browser will still be Safari.
  - nicoburns 9y ago
    True. This hasn't stopped Chrome though.
    - lucideer 9y ago
      It hasn't stopped either Chrome or Firefox[0] from releasing Safari skins on the AppStore, but unfortunately neither are actually Chrome[1] or Firefox[2] [0] https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/firefox-web-browser/id989804926 https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/firefox-web-browser/id989804... [1] https://blog.chromium.org/2017/01/open-sourcing-chrome-on-ios.html https://blog.chromium.org/2017/01/open-sourcing-chrome-on-io... [2] https://blog.mozilla.org/futurereleases/2015/05/22/update-on-firefox-for-ios/ https://blog.mozilla.org/futurereleases/2015/05/22/update-on...
seren 9y ago
On mobile, I prefer Firefox + uBlock to Chrome.
NikolaeVarius 9y ago
I hold that Brave is the best browser on mobile. Followed by Lighting browser.
lucideer 9y ago
For me, Quantum is the first usable Firefox version on mobile. I've been trialing various versions of it over the years in desperate hope that it would get to a usable state, because the mobile browser ecosystem is bleak other than Firefox - it's the only browser with actual features I want. I was only held back from it by performance. So in that sense, I'd say it's a complete gamechanger on mobile, much more than on desktop.
- seren 9y ago
  And yet all the Quantum code is not yet on Firefox Android 57, so it will get actually better quickly.
  - bobajeff 9y ago
    Yeah but it's still noticably more usable because of the UI change in this release. It basically looks more like Chrome for Android; where as before it looked like a Android Cupcake app.
y_u_no_rust 9y ago
People still use smartphones? LOL
CapsAdmin 9y ago
The biggest selling point for me with firefox on android is the ability to use an adblocker. There's no way I'm going to consider using chrome on android unless it supports extensions like ublock and whatnot.
- KozmoNau7 9y ago
  UBlock Origin in dynamic mode is absolutely essential, I will not use a browser where it is not available. So that means Firefox on mobile, and it makes browsing much less aggravating.

dsff56 9y ago

I stopped using firefox since they are delivering cliqz with every 100th download which will analyze and store your browsing history and is a shame for the mozilla foundation. I'm using waterfox now btw...

fugg181 9y ago
I thought this guy was nuts but he's correct: https://blog.mozilla.org/press-uk/2017/10/06/testing-cliqz-in-firefox/ https://blog.mozilla.org/press-uk/2017/10/06/testing-cliqz-i...
mikejarema 9y ago
This threw me off, I really didn't expect Mozilla to bundle in something like this. However, here's the info, straight from the source: https://blog.mozilla.org/press-uk/2017/10/06/testing-cliqz-in-firefox/ https://blog.mozilla.org/press-uk/2017/10/06/testing-cliqz-i... Looks like < 1% of installs in Germany will get this preinstalled. Here's how to remove if you're one of the unlucky ones: https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/cliqz-recommendations-firefox#w_disable-or-uninstall-cliqz-recommendations https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/cliqz-recommendations-f... Finally, Cliqz has a Firefox Test Pilot program (German-only): https://testpilot.firefox.com/experiments/cliqz https://testpilot.firefox.com/experiments/cliqz
- tinus_hn 9y ago
  It’s opt-out as well. I wonder if this is actually legal in Germany, they have pretty strict laws.
dcow 9y ago
But at least Mozilla is up front and transparent about what it's doing. I'd love to know the extent of what Google/Chrome is doing...
- forapurpose 9y ago
  > Mozilla is up front and transparent about what it's doing A statement in a blog that only a tiny percentage of users will read is not at all transparent. Do users who receive browsers with Cliqz get a clear, effective opt-out warning? Really, it should be opt-in but that doesn't appear to be the case: The users will receive a version of Firefox with Cliqz recommendations enabled out of the box. https://blog.mozilla.org/press-uk/2017/10/06/testing-cliqz-in-firefox/ https://blog.mozilla.org/press-uk/2017/10/06/testing-cliqz-i...

LeoJiWoo 9y ago

Quantum was annoying enough to kill Firefox for me completely. I've completely shifted. EDIT: Added explanation The big issue is I often switch between Browsers for work. So I often switch between Chrome, Firefox, and Opera with custom extensions for my workflow. With the amount of choice, I don't need to stick with a browser that makes my life harder than easier. Chrome is my main browser now, it was already getting close to majority usage for me.

ancarda 9y ago
What did you switch to? Was it due to extensions?
- nwah1 9y ago
  I feel like there's a lot of anti-Mozilla trolls on this particular comments section. Compared to most other articles on HN, it just doesn't align with the views I've heard elsewhere, and certainly doesn't align with my experience as a happy Firefox user.
  - rnhmjoj 9y ago
    I have been using Firefox for about 5 years, I'm still using it and despite that I'm anti-Mozilla. The browser performance has always been fine to me and 57 doesn't look particularly "faster" as they are advertising it. I'm one of the dozen people that care about a browser being user configurable and not doing any analytics, telemetry, experiments,... . Mozilla has lately been working exactly against this. I have about 80KB of patch files just to remove all the crap Mozilla managed to stuff into an otherwise perfect browser like: advertisements, telemetry, more data sharing, geolocation using google servers, a social network and proprietary binary blobs for service integration. When I build a clean version of Firefox then I'm happy too.
  - kk_cz 9y ago
    How do you tell "anti-Mozilla troll" from a genuinely dissapointed user? I'm currently on FF ESR, once my favorite extentsions stop working there I might as well switch the browser completely, since my UX will be completely reset just as it would be with a entirely different browser. I'm not saying I will switch to something else (other browsers seem equally unusable to me as FF57 is currently), but I will certainly try all the options to find out if something else isn't at least marginally better than FF57.

needz 9y ago

Firefox Quantum kills the battery on my Macbook. I love it otherwise.

dao- 9y ago
Are you using scaled resolution? Then it's a known issue that is being investigated and will hopefully be fixed soon: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1404042 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1404042
- needz 9y ago
  I was using scaled resolution. Switched to default; will report back. Edit: Been at 100% for 10 minutes. Much, much better. If anyone knows how to set default zoom on Firefox it'd be greatly appreciated.
  - dao- 9y ago
    Try setting layout.css.devPixelsPerPx to e.g. 2 in about:config?
    - needz 9y ago
      Didn't have any noticeable effect for me.
      - dao- 9y ago
        Well, maybe it already was 2 by default (-1.0 means auto-detect). Maybe try different values.

dsp1234 9y ago

This morning I came into work to a sluggish FF browser. One of the FF processes was using 1.6GB of memory, and one entire core of CPU. I had 1 pinned and 5 normal tabs open. I'm not particularly impressed with the reality of the new FF.

rem1313 9y ago

It is not as fast as advertised. It is not even 'fast', composing emails in Google Inbox web app is laggy AF...

dcow 9y ago
That's funny because gmail on Quantum was actually the final straw for me. I was liking what I was seeing trying Quantum out and then I loaded up gmail and boom it worked and looked better than gmail on Chrome and I was sold.
mistahchris 9y ago
Google Inbox web app is laggy af in Chrome for me, honestly. I use it for work. I'm on Firefox Nightly and it's super fast everywhere except for the Google Web Apps (which aren't butter smooth on any browser, even Chrome).

mtgx 9y ago

It can, but Quantum was basically just the very start of that journey. They'll need to try and keep one step ahead of Chrome with every release. If they can do that, they'll rebuild the following.

greenhouse_gas 9y ago

No, because people don't switch to the best product, that switch away from the worst. People went to Firefox because it was head and shoulders better than IE6 for regular use - popup blocking and tabbed browsing were the most obvious examples, but even then (and being advertised on Google's front page), it only for about 35% of the market. Now let's say it'll be a bit faster than Chrome. Let's say it'll be twice faster than Chrome, with better deep extensions coming back, it won't make a difference. Chrome is too usable.

dcow 9y ago
I switched to the new Firefox and removed chrome because I tried it and liked it better, not because Chrome is the worst. Also I'm curious how people went from Firefox to Chrome in the first place using your "move away from the worst" logic. Certainly something else happened there or FF was much worst than I remember.
- Veen 9y ago
  But most people aren't even going to try Firefox. Unless Google do something seriously stupid with Chrome, the average user has no incentive to move. Chrome is good enough.
  - squid_ca 9y ago
    I don't know, I feel like many people started using Chrome because technical-minded folk recommended it to them (certainly, I told many family members to switch to it). So, maybe the same thing will happen with Firefox (I have just switched from Chrome to Firefox and am prepared to recommend it as someone's default browser).
    - addicted 9y ago
      Looking towards technical minded relatives and friends definitely helped, but what really pushed Chrome over the top IMO was Google.com, Gmail, Youtube, Google Docs, Google Calendar, Hangouts, etc. all insisting you must use Chrome.

topranks 9y ago

Nothing but negative comments here. Longtime FF user but I gotta say the new version is great. MUCH faster than the old version or Chrome. Great work Mozilla. Feck the begruders!

maltalex 9y ago
You're missing the point. The negative comments are about the market share. No one is saying anything negative about Firefox or Mozilla.
- fasquoika 9y ago
  The comment literally directly below this one is about how awful new Firefox is for breaking their add-ons...
betterunix2 9y ago
Yeah, nothing like waking up one day and discovering that my add-ons have all been disabled...
- KozmoNau7 9y ago
  All of them? Really?
  - betterunix2 9y ago
    Yes, really. Why should that surprise you? The majority of XUL extensions had not been ported to WebExtensions when Mozilla pushed this update and Mozilla was well aware of that fact. This was executed poorly and Mozilla deserves to be criticized for it.
    - LocutusOfBorges 9y ago
      Mozilla gave extension authors multiple years of notice. I don't see what else they could have done, realistically speaking.

muxator 9y ago

Firefox on Andorid works flawlessly for me. Plus, it's worth repeating that Firefox sync works without problem across desktop and mobile. The sync [0] and auth [1] servers are open source, and one could choose to use one or both on his premises. IIRC, browser synchronization was a thing on Firefox well before it landed on chrome. [0] https://mozilla-services.readthedocs.io/en/latest/howtos/run-sync-1.5.html https://mozilla-services.readthedocs.io/en/latest/howtos/run... [1] https://mozilla-services.readthedocs.io/en/latest/howtos/run-fxa.html https://mozilla-services.readthedocs.io/en/latest/howtos/run...

space_fountain 9y ago
I've switched entirely to Firefox, but I have had some issues where I input an address on Android and the Browser doesn't navigate.
- janneklouman 9y ago
  Unfortunately I had the same issue on my Android phone - every time I re-opened the app I had to open a new tab in order to browse. I ended up installing and using Firefox Nightly instead (where the issue seems to be resolved).
- joelthelion 9y ago
  Have you tried again since 57 was released? Or tried nightly? I've been using Firefox on mobile for a long time, and I remember experiencing similar issues from time to time, but I haven't had these in a while. FWIW, closing tabs once in a while can also help. Mobiles typically don't have too much RAM.
- anderspitman 9y ago
  Had a similar issue recently. Reinstalling the app seems to have fixed it.
- wolco 9y ago
  I had a similiar issue with chrome
9y ago

k__ 9y ago

I think it's pretty rad, but some nontechnical people who use FF for years now say they didn't notice much, just that the have to learn a new UI

blauditore 9y ago

Well, large parts of Chrome's market share is caused by their aggressive marketing, which is likely quite effective with casual users. And those probably won't switch for performance or privacy reasons.

nly 9y ago

I'm holding on to FF56 until an equivalent to my beloved tab tree extension[0] is available [0] https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/tab-tree/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/tab-tree/

kronos29296 9y ago
IIRC Hasn't some of them already been ported? (Tree tab and Tree style tab) Maybe you can try the alternatives.
sldenazis 9y ago
Did you see this https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15342362 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15342362 ?
pletnes 9y ago
Tree style tabs work ok on FF57. I expect it to become more polished with time though.
sundarurfriend 9y ago
I'm in a similar boat waiting for decent alternatives to 'Speed Dial' and 'FireGestures' addons. The existing 'VimFx' replacements like Saka Key are also only partially there in terms of features. I'm wary of switching to Waterfox because it's a single developer project and might be more buggy than it seems from the outside, but I might end up there after all, if equivalent addons don't rise up.

ianlevesque 9y ago

I tried it for a week hoping to reduce the amount of swapping my laptop did during a normal workday. It wasn’t any better than chrome unfortunately and due to the lack of workaround extensions like the Great Suspender it was actually worse.

megiddo 9y ago
I found it worse. I was playing process kill whackamole for a week.
- switchbak 9y ago
  I'm in the same boat, but the progress they have been making as of late is really impressive, and it was markedly better than the last time I tried it. Will probably try again in another 6-8 months. I have problems with Chrome eating tons of memory, hoping the new FF gets a lot leaner (and robust) as their newer tech gets integrated. Plus, the blog posts on their usage of Rust are really fun to read!
r3bl 9y ago
Have you tried Tab suspender[0]? A couple of hours ago, I've had about 25 tabs opened, about 20 of which were suspended. Just for the heck of it, I've checked the memory usage of Firefox. 500 megabytes. [0] https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/tab-suspender-tab-unloader/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/tab-suspender...

osrec 9y ago

Generally, the new FF is great. One small criticism - their GPU accelerated CSS animations are a bit choppy on mobiles (these a generally very smooth on chrome and Safari).

muizelaar 9y ago
What platform? Do you have an example url?
- osrec 9y ago
  I tried it on Android, but a few of my app's users complained and a lot of them use iOS. You can try it out at https://usebx.com/app https://usebx.com/app - just click try demo to get to where the animation is. You'll find the page transitions are not quite as smooth in Firefox when compared with Chrome or Safari.
  - Sylos 9y ago
    Well, as it says in the article, Firefox and Chrome on iOS are both just WebKit wrappers, because Apple doesn't allow other browser engines into their store, so I don't know what kind of black magic or bias or whatnot your users are experiencing. As for Android, the new CSS engine (called "Quantum CSS" or "Stylo"), which landed with Firefox 57 on the desktop, should ship on Android with Firefox 59. There's also "Quantum Render" or "WebRender" upcoming somewhen soonish. I'm guessing Firefox 60 or 61 on the desktop, so maybe again with a small delay then on Android, I don't know. WebRender should be kind of a big deal. In extreme cases, the difference can look like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0hYIRQRiws https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0hYIRQRiws
- osrec 9y ago
  Also, noticed another thing - on Android, using FF nightly, I couldn't access a local network URL via FF (Unable to connect message), but could with Chrome - example URL http://10.0.130.64/path http://10.0.130.64/path
  - 9y ago

cdevs 9y ago

Long time Firefox user every since I left safari I tried Firefox and chrome and didn't like chrome at all. Now I only run some linux with Firefox but have chrome only as a back up to test or if YouTube has a glitchy anti Firefox day.

rebelwebmaster 9y ago

Firefox' path to market share growth has to go through mobile. How to get users to switch from preinstalled good-enough Chrome is the tough nut to crack, though.

mst 9y ago
I wonder if the EU will start to consider the situations with iOS and Android equivalent to Microsoft bundling IE ... giving users an obvious post-install choice might help a lot.
- gsnedders 9y ago
  Neither iOS nor Android are over 90% marketshare, as Windows was at the time of the anti-trust bundling case.

TAForObvReasons 9y ago

The privacy-conscious / anti-Google crowd isn't large enough to move the needle. For Firefox to regain market share, one of two things must happen: 1) Google makes a really poor decision (e.g. disabling ad blockers, charging $$) 2) Mozilla partners with existing web apps or they build their own web apps with extra value that is only available in Firefox (in the same way that Google sites generally perform better on Chrome than FF)

jeffdavis 9y ago
Or, they make a really good product that people want. That seems to be their current approach, which is hard to argue with.
- pessimizer 9y ago
  > That seems to be their current approach What evidence do you have of this? As far as I can tell, their strategy has been to 1) imitate Chrome and 2) get faster. I don't know that people wanted them to imitate Chrome and get faster, and I would cite the fact that millions have uninstalled it over that period, and installed Chrome.
  - viraptor 9y ago
    I remember when Chrome has started their project. People were mainly switching because: tabs crashed independently from the browser, and it was way faster than Firefox. You don't need much to get people to switch.
    - pessimizer 9y ago
      At the beginning, yes, and the process separation was heavily marketed so people were switching for that reason even if there was actually no material benefit that would show up in their own typical usage. But on the other side, those early switchers had no reason to stay with firefox because they weren't heavy add-on users, and both browsers were nominally open source and anti-IE. I think the bleeding of users from Firefox over time, however, has been because of a Chrome inspired cycle of constant add-on breakages, removals of configuration options, and UI changes towards a Chrome look, with each breakage and change removing a distinction between the two browsers that would keep a user from switching. Additionally as the add-on breakages were happening, Chrome was expanding their library of add-ons, further removing distinction between the two browsers, and in some cases, such as developer tools, gaining the upper hand. I think it's important to note that this latest firefox move was not only a move to render it incompatable with its own library of add-ons, but to adopt Chrome's library as its own. The multiprocess functionality that it is now touting was a response to Chrome's own multiprocess functionality. The UI is now completely indistinct from Chrome's. For every add-on that didn't make it over, there's 1000 users for whom that add-on was keeping them from switching to Chrome. All of the UI manipulating add-ons represented ingrained habits that 1000 users really didn't want to change, so they were bound to firefox. At the point of this version change, upgrading firefox or moving to Chrome has exactly the same amount of friction. The only way Firefox can compete with Chrome now that they're indistinguishable is on marketing, and I'm fairly sure that Google is the biggest advertising company in the world. I suspect that this has been intentional. Firefox is again financially dependent on Google. This was as precipitous a fall as the Elop-headed Nokia.

shmerl 9y ago

I think currently, market share isn't dictated by quality, but more by pushing stuff on users (Google is really obnoxious with it). So it's not as much of a technical problem, as a marketing one. May be mandating browser choice for mobile devices could help it, including forcing Apple to remove the ban on competing browsers, which really should have been tackled by anti-trust a long time ago.

bluedino 9y ago

Maybe they need to strike deals to come preisntalled with systems or other software? A browser is just a "the internet" to a majority of people.

paprikka 9y ago
I used to work with a developer who'd preach the "IceWeasel is the ultimate browser" gospel to us. I guess this makes your argument somehow more valid:) OS might be hard, as Win and Mac have their own browsers, so my first guess would be Linux or security focused builds of Android. This doesn't sound like enough exposure to make a significant/disruptive change. I expect Mozilla to be more active in this area though. Yes, performance is important and I switched to FF recently too, but I'm still using Electron powered apps on my MacBook. What's more plausible is a situation where Chrome for some reason (ekhm... privacy?) loses market share to FF/IE/Safari. Having more competition will make my browser better, regardless of my choice.
- JetSpiegel 9y ago
  > Linux Firefox is the default browser in virtually all distros, even Debian. As for Android, to make a difference it would need to be installed in Gapps-by-default phones, so Google would have to concede. Maybe if the EU hits them with an antitrust lawsuit Microsoft-style, otherwise it's not gonna happen.

gator-io 9y ago

Browser share trends with bot traffic removed: https://truemarketshare.com https://truemarketshare.com We may post some daily numbers after the holidays.

einrealist 9y ago

Well, it got my market share back. I really like the new version. And I am glad to have switched back from Chrome, because I really like what Mozilla is doing - not just with Firefox.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

zitterbewegung 9y ago

Yes

clw8 9y ago

After my first few hours using desktop Quantum I thought for sure I was switching away from Chrome. But then videos stopped playing (audio would play and the video would just be black) and didn't work again until restarting the browser. And then it just kept happening every time it had been open for a couple hours. Back to Chrome for now.

acdha 9y ago
Did you report the problem? Given how many video-related problems end up being caused by drivers that seems like it'd be a potential entry on the blacklist.
lilbobbytables 9y ago
Video is wonky for me in FF as well. Like, issues where it's glitchy or the video freezes but the audio is still playing. With Chrome on OS X I've got pretty used a more or less flawless video experience - kind of forgot what it used to be like.

robertlagrant 9y ago

Does the new Firefox have a password sync feature like Chrome's? I'd much rather trust Mozilla with that sort of thing (especially if I could host my own backend to it somewhere) than Google. As an aside, one silly thing that tarnished Mozilla's brand for me was the treatment of Brendan Eich. I may not agree with his donation of money but I think impinging on his rights is a far more fundamental immorality than what he was accused of. It's like Twitter's controversy over blue ticks. If they'd only given them as a result of identity verification, and not used them to indicate Twitter's approval of someone's beliefs, then they wouldn't be where they are now. Stick to good tech and fighting for relevant causes, e.g. net neutrality, I say.

rebelwebmaster 9y ago
The thing with Brendan happened ~3 years ago now. A lot of the leadership that was there at the time is gone now. How long should Mozilla be punished for that?
- robertlagrant 9y ago
  No one is being punished - I'm not their parent not their government. Which is sort of my original concern. Mozilla was neither of those things to Brendan Eich, and yet more and more we see employers and influencers behaving as though they are.
  - ChrisSD 9y ago
    I don't mean to rehash old arguments but in his position he was representing Mozilla. And Mozilla is an advocacy organisation with a deep interest in policy. They aren't just a browser maker; Firefox is merely their most widely known campaign. If the organisation felt he didn't represent them then it doesn't make sense for him to be CEO. It would have been less of an issue if he were in a more purely technical role.
    - robertlagrant 9y ago
      That's my point - I don't want them to spend their money on being a general-purpose morality organisation. I want a browser maker who specifically argues for the most foundational and important of needs regarding the internet. I don't want a social justice crusader who values PR above all.

popee 9y ago

Just installed 57 to give it a try. Damn it's friking good, gj mozilla!

mrolla 9y ago

I have been using Firefox again for a while now after completing my Google exit and I’m enjoying every single day with Quantum. The real game changer for me was the introduction of container though. I only wish they also had separated history.

tolien 9y ago

> Firefox can take comfort in the fact that it is now virtually tied with its former arch-nemesis, Internet Explorer and its variants. Instead of an IE monoculture, we now have a WebKit/Blink one: Chrome: 54.57% Safari: 14.59% Alibaba UC Browser: 7.86% Opera: 3.89% Samsung Internet: 3.41% Android: 1.90% That's a total of 86.22%. Plus ça change.

raincom 9y ago

Mozilla should fix battery drain issues on Macbooks. I used FireFox Quantum for a couple weeks and dumped it y'day due to its battery abuse.

dao- 9y ago
Let me paste my answer to another user reporting (seemingly) the same issue: Are you using scaled resolution? Then it's a known issue that is being investigated and will hopefully be fixed soon: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1404042 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1404042
- raincom 9y ago
  I did not change any default settings for FF 57. Just checked the config: layout.css.devPixelsPx, default, string, -1.0 Edit: Checked the screen resolution as well: it is default, but not scaled.

mpg515 9y ago

FFQ is my new daily driver for regular browsing but I will still be developing with Chrome

arthurfm 9y ago

> Even worse is Google’s policy of prohibiting the installation of 3rd party web browsers on Chrome OS devices. Firefox simply can’t be installed on any Chromebook. The Android version of Firefox can be installed on Chrome OS though.

maephisto 9y ago

No, no chance Firefox could get back to owning 20% or 30% again. Just look around you, how many of the people you know made the switch? Most of the people I know gave the new FF a try, concluded that it's fine and got back to Chrome. Right now, there's just no reason to switch. Also, everybody's going about FF consuming less memory than Chrome, but in my short personal test there was no real difference.

cygx 9y ago

Note that while Chrome is currently the top browser in Germany, it's still not as big as Firefox used to be: https://imgur.com/a/dx5n8 https://imgur.com/a/dx5n8 wishes Mozilla luck in reversing the downward trend

cmurf 9y ago

I've been using Firefox Focus on Android for most things, and if they don't work then I use regular Firefox. I rarely have to use Chrome.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

kk_cz 9y ago

Non-tech folks don't care about rendering engine. They might fall for tons of advertisment that Chrome had or they might be force-fed a new browser with a new computer or OS purchase, none of these things are going to happen for FF. Tech folks might care about shiny new engine, but they are also more likely to care about their favorite extensions not working anymore. I personally wouldn't be surprised if FF actually lost some share in the long run, but that's just my dissapointment talking. I know for certain that if something like waterfox keeps old extensions running I will gladly give up Quantum for a better UX.

Gaelan 9y ago
"New engine" may not matter, but "fast" probably does.
- kk_cz 9y ago
  My experience is anecdotal of course, but IMHO "fast" is something tech savy users are looking for. "Which one is the Internet" or "I know this icon from a big shiny ad" is how non-tech folks function. Full disclaimer: Years spent supporting end users might have negatively affected my view of the "average user".
  - Sylos 9y ago
    Yeah, I do think your view is a bit skewed. There's an ever-growing number of users that grew up with computers, who know at least how to install a different program on their own, despite most definitely not being a techie either. And even among techies, I think you overestimate how many actually care about much else than "fast" when it comes to a browser. Just look at how many techies run Chrome. It's usually not the most wizardly of techies, but a good number of techies either way.

mattkevan 9y ago

The new version of Firefox is great. And a massive improvement over previous versions. However I think Mozilla have a lot of work to do. Desktop browsing is pretty much legacy at this point so convincing mobile users to use something other than the default browser will be hard. I work on a site with 8 figure monthly unique visits and the browser stats are startling. iOS Safari had about 51%, Chrome mobile & desktop about 35%, Samsung browser at 7%. Nothing else has over 2-3%. Edge, for example, is a rounding error.

have_faith 9y ago

I love FireFox, it's been my primary browser for many years but this is a drop in the bucket of what would make a regular user switch browsers.

justinzollars 9y ago

So happy with Firefox and the Open Web concept. I've completely switched and happy to stop using Google and Apple products. #openweb

beausy 9y ago

Everyone keeps talking about how Firefox is faster than Chrome, but for me Chrome is night and day faster at rendering. And that's comparing Chrome with about a dozen extensions vs a fresh install of Quantum. And yes, that's without cache

andyhoang 9y ago

still check if pitch to zoom available every week from FF. My eyes is not good without zooming :(

JoshMnem 9y ago

For anyone that thought that Microsoft was changing its ways, that should be a big warning: > Even worse, the new Windows 10 S operating system prohibits the installation of any apps which do not come from the Windows Store, so it is impossible to install Firefox on devices running Windows 10 S.