12 ms·

Quitting your job with only 4 month worth of savings, with a new mortgage, to enter an industry known for its oversaturation, extreme competition, and high luck

by ajnin 9y ago

Quitting your job with only 4 month worth of savings, with a new mortgage, to enter an industry known for its oversaturation, extreme competition, and high luck element for indies ? That's insane. Maybe I'm just risk-adverse. That said, I think he actually succeeded, despite appearances. Managing to release a working game in 3 month, that actually got sales, is a feat in itself. The game will keep trickling sales, if he's a developer he can probably find a job in a few weeks and enjoy the now-passive income so I'm not too worried about him. Keep cranking out games like this one and the income will pile up.

issaria 9y ago
Yes, it's very impressive, and the purpose of the whole post IMO is part of the marketing (call me evil). Also if he didn't quit his job, he probably wouldn't be able to get this far within a year.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- thinkloop 9y ago
  It is for sure, and it's fine, the amounts of money being mentioned are only material if you picked the short geoeconomic straw.
- stupidcar 9y ago
  He was only a month away from completing the game when he quit. If he'd worked evenings and weekends, and used some vacation time, it seems like he could have easily finished and released the game by early next year. That way he wouldn't have to bet everything on the "magic unicorn" of instant Steam success. I sometimes think people starting businesses take on an unnecessary amount of risk out of some unconscious belief that, by doing so, it will "prove" to God or the universe, or maybe just themselves, that they really want it.
  - virgilp 9y ago
    From the name, I'm guessing he's Romanian; it's not illegal here to have a contract that states "everything you create, even in the spare time, is the company's property, unless you get written manager approval first". I have exactly such a contract. And yes I know it would be illegal in the US. (I'm not exactly sure how enforceable such a clause would really be, but that's another story, and I really understand him not wanting to take the risk)
    - Gaelan 9y ago
      US has similar contacts actually.
      - em3rgent0rdr 9y ago
        examples?
        SyneRyder 9y ago
        It's an old link, but here's Apple enforcing that against a developer who developed an app in their spare time, and Apple wanting to take ownership of the app & source code: https://web.archive.org/web/20060316084454/http://www.thinksecret.com/news/netflixfanatic.html https://web.archive.org/web/20060316084454/http://www.thinks...
        em3rgent0rdr 9y ago
        That app is competing with Apple's iTunes, so that seems more like a non-compete issue. I'd like to see an example of an employee developing something completely unrelated to his employer's business.
        virgilp 9y ago
        Well, this guy was working in the gaming industry...
thinkloop 9y ago
I also read it as a success. Developing and selling hundreds of units of software in less than 4 months for mere hundreds of dollars is challenging and iterable.
repomies691 9y ago
When I started my company like 10 years ago, I also had savings for only like 4 months. However my plan was not to do games specifically but anything that pays the bills. Though I made one game as well but more like for fun and training, not for money. My various products did little money, though I had to look for gigs quite often to support the development. After 1-2 years I made enough money from the products so that I didn't need the gigs any more. As a developer it is quite easy to find contracting/freelancing gigs if you need money quickly. I don't know in what kind of business environment this guy lives, but I've never felt that those with programming skills need to stress about savings that much, because there is so much short-term work available if you want it. Of course it is not the kind of work that many would want to do, but it pays the bills.
- worldsayshi 9y ago
  I'm curious what kind of work you found and where you found it? If you don't mind telling.
  - _s 9y ago
    I find digital consultancies / agencies always have spikes of work and they need folks to join in for a couple of weeks or months. Just make connections there - send in your cv, ask about part time positions etc. Agencies usually have one or two recruiters they trust so go and make friends with them too, chances are that recruiter is connected to a few other agencies and so forth. It’s all about networking though, and finding individuals that are reliable.
    - bshimmin 9y ago
      Bear in mind, to address the point about making money "quickly", that if you go direct to a digital agency, they will expect you to do a month's work, and then for you to send them an invoice with 28 day terms, and then they will pay when it pleases them to do so. So that might well be two months between sitting down at a desk and money actually appearing in your bank account - or it might be longer. (Speaking from experience in London.) (If you go through a recruiter, you might be in a better position, because sometimes recruiters want you to invoice weekly and sometimes they pay more or less on receipt of the invoice. And sometimes they don't, of course.)
flexie 9y ago
It's not that I disagree, especially with the opinion that the gaming industry is over-saturated and that a lot depends on luck in that industry. But I'd say that 4 months worth of savings is in the better end when starting a new business. Most people who do startups or who otherwise become entrepreneurs have much less than that. And I think having too much of a cushion can lull you into a false sense of "doing something right" and that needing revenue soon can be an excellent motivator. I was about to get married when I quit my job and started by myself, and my wife also had to quit her job because we moved country. And we honestly didn't really work out whether we were in a bit of debt or if we had savings for a few weeks. Sure, the first 6 months without pay were hard, and so were the next few years with low pay, especially when we had kids. But if having 6 or 12 months worth of savings is a requirement, then you can rule out just about everyone except rich kids and upper middle class teenagers.
- yuliyp 9y ago
  4 months of expenses, not necessarily 4 months of full-time-employment income.
- zelos 9y ago
  Maybe I'm just way too risk-averse, but 3-4 months of expenses in savings is what I'd consider a minimum while in a stable full-time job.
  - oneeyedpigeon 9y ago
    Yes, our mortgage advisor recommended a certain buffer amount in savings, and it was quite a lot. Either one year or 18 months, and I think that was combined income. That was just to ensure the mortgage could still be paid for a while if we both lost our jobs. I'm personally planning for an exit strategy which will see me working for myself in about 6 months time. I have roughly one year's take-home pay and will ideally have 18-24 months by the time I quit.
    - rahimnathwani 9y ago
      It sounds like the mortgage advisor encouraged you to borrow a larger sum, so that she/he could get a larger commission. There's no need to keep that much money in the bank just in case you lose your job and can't pay your mortgage. Most lenders (at least where I'm from) will arrange a payment holiday if you tell them you've lost your job. After all, they benefit by earning more interest whilst you're not making payments. Of course, there are many other good reasons to want that much liquid cash in the bank.
angarg12 9y ago
GDC: How to Survive in Gamedev for Eleven Years Without a Hit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmwbYl6f11c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmwbYl6f11c TL;DR: prepare for this to happen, and build a long tail of games/sales. I don't want to sound mean but I don't think anyone should buy the game because they feel sorry and he is begging. I can't condone it. It has become trendy for people to make GoFundMe campaigns or write articles begging people to help. Assume people do buy your game because they are sorry, and you manage to get by. Is that how you intend to create a sustainable business? What about other indie devs who failed, maybe even harder? Should they also write articles with their sad story? What about those who don't make it to the top of Hackernews? Should what is essentially charity support people taking risks? I take this article as a cautionary tale of what could go wrong when you go indie, one of those that we need more of in face of the wild success stories that saturate media.
- cylinder 9y ago
  It doesn't seem like a business story really, it seems like an artist / craftsman wanted to practice his craft and ran into commercial realities. It's a starving artist situation. There wasn't any market analysis, financial analysis, etc upfront. He wanted to make a game, and he did, so he should be commended for that. It wasn't really a business venture.
  - krapp 9y ago
    I think it became a business story as soon as the developer quit his job and risked his future livelihood on sales. He could have worked on the game in his free time and released it for free, otherwise.
    - twothamendment 9y ago
      That is exactly why I'm happy working for someone else. I love to code, solve problems and make things. I do not what to run a business. As soon as you are in your own you are running a business.
      - 9y ago
unreal37 9y ago
I wonder how many hundreds of sales he got simply from that article.
stfwn 9y ago
I'd say the learning experience should be to manage your own expectations. In my experience in music many musicians set out to ‘make it’ without defining what that is at all. They don't define success, so they'll always feel bad about not having achieved it. The musicians that actually ‘make it’ are those guys/girls that say ‘I just want to write one song that is my own’ — ‘I just want to make a 5-song album’ — ‘I just want to play my album in a bar’. ‘I just want to sell a copy to someone I don't know’ — ‘I just want to sell 10 copies to people I don't know.’ ‘I want to play my songs somewhere that is not a bar.’ And every time it turns out the next achievement is just around the corner from where they are, so they always feel good about having achieved something and they always feel motivated to achieve the next thing. This guy better change his blog post to ‘I made a game and I released it on Steam’ and talk about how he's going to take a job in order to fund himself while I tries to sell 100 copies, and then write ‘I sold 100 copies of my game’ and talk about how he will get to 200.

by ajnin 9y ago

issaria 9y ago

Yes, it's very impressive, and the purpose of the whole post IMO is part of the marketing (call me evil). Also if he didn't quit his job, he probably wouldn't be able to get this far within a year.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
thinkloop 9y ago
It is for sure, and it's fine, the amounts of money being mentioned are only material if you picked the short geoeconomic straw.
stupidcar 9y ago
He was only a month away from completing the game when he quit. If he'd worked evenings and weekends, and used some vacation time, it seems like he could have easily finished and released the game by early next year. That way he wouldn't have to bet everything on the "magic unicorn" of instant Steam success. I sometimes think people starting businesses take on an unnecessary amount of risk out of some unconscious belief that, by doing so, it will "prove" to God or the universe, or maybe just themselves, that they really want it.
- virgilp 9y ago
  From the name, I'm guessing he's Romanian; it's not illegal here to have a contract that states "everything you create, even in the spare time, is the company's property, unless you get written manager approval first". I have exactly such a contract. And yes I know it would be illegal in the US. (I'm not exactly sure how enforceable such a clause would really be, but that's another story, and I really understand him not wanting to take the risk)
  - Gaelan 9y ago
    US has similar contacts actually.
    - em3rgent0rdr 9y ago
      examples?
      - SyneRyder 9y ago
        It's an old link, but here's Apple enforcing that against a developer who developed an app in their spare time, and Apple wanting to take ownership of the app & source code: https://web.archive.org/web/20060316084454/http://www.thinksecret.com/news/netflixfanatic.html https://web.archive.org/web/20060316084454/http://www.thinks...
        em3rgent0rdr 9y ago
        That app is competing with Apple's iTunes, so that seems more like a non-compete issue. I'd like to see an example of an employee developing something completely unrelated to his employer's business.
        virgilp 9y ago
        Well, this guy was working in the gaming industry...

thinkloop 9y ago

I also read it as a success. Developing and selling hundreds of units of software in less than 4 months for mere hundreds of dollars is challenging and iterable.

repomies691 9y ago

When I started my company like 10 years ago, I also had savings for only like 4 months. However my plan was not to do games specifically but anything that pays the bills. Though I made one game as well but more like for fun and training, not for money. My various products did little money, though I had to look for gigs quite often to support the development. After 1-2 years I made enough money from the products so that I didn't need the gigs any more. As a developer it is quite easy to find contracting/freelancing gigs if you need money quickly. I don't know in what kind of business environment this guy lives, but I've never felt that those with programming skills need to stress about savings that much, because there is so much short-term work available if you want it. Of course it is not the kind of work that many would want to do, but it pays the bills.

worldsayshi 9y ago
I'm curious what kind of work you found and where you found it? If you don't mind telling.
- _s 9y ago
  I find digital consultancies / agencies always have spikes of work and they need folks to join in for a couple of weeks or months. Just make connections there - send in your cv, ask about part time positions etc. Agencies usually have one or two recruiters they trust so go and make friends with them too, chances are that recruiter is connected to a few other agencies and so forth. It’s all about networking though, and finding individuals that are reliable.
  - bshimmin 9y ago
    Bear in mind, to address the point about making money "quickly", that if you go direct to a digital agency, they will expect you to do a month's work, and then for you to send them an invoice with 28 day terms, and then they will pay when it pleases them to do so. So that might well be two months between sitting down at a desk and money actually appearing in your bank account - or it might be longer. (Speaking from experience in London.) (If you go through a recruiter, you might be in a better position, because sometimes recruiters want you to invoice weekly and sometimes they pay more or less on receipt of the invoice. And sometimes they don't, of course.)

flexie 9y ago

It's not that I disagree, especially with the opinion that the gaming industry is over-saturated and that a lot depends on luck in that industry. But I'd say that 4 months worth of savings is in the better end when starting a new business. Most people who do startups or who otherwise become entrepreneurs have much less than that. And I think having too much of a cushion can lull you into a false sense of "doing something right" and that needing revenue soon can be an excellent motivator. I was about to get married when I quit my job and started by myself, and my wife also had to quit her job because we moved country. And we honestly didn't really work out whether we were in a bit of debt or if we had savings for a few weeks. Sure, the first 6 months without pay were hard, and so were the next few years with low pay, especially when we had kids. But if having 6 or 12 months worth of savings is a requirement, then you can rule out just about everyone except rich kids and upper middle class teenagers.

yuliyp 9y ago
4 months of expenses, not necessarily 4 months of full-time-employment income.
zelos 9y ago
Maybe I'm just way too risk-averse, but 3-4 months of expenses in savings is what I'd consider a minimum while in a stable full-time job.
- oneeyedpigeon 9y ago
  Yes, our mortgage advisor recommended a certain buffer amount in savings, and it was quite a lot. Either one year or 18 months, and I think that was combined income. That was just to ensure the mortgage could still be paid for a while if we both lost our jobs. I'm personally planning for an exit strategy which will see me working for myself in about 6 months time. I have roughly one year's take-home pay and will ideally have 18-24 months by the time I quit.
  - rahimnathwani 9y ago
    It sounds like the mortgage advisor encouraged you to borrow a larger sum, so that she/he could get a larger commission. There's no need to keep that much money in the bank just in case you lose your job and can't pay your mortgage. Most lenders (at least where I'm from) will arrange a payment holiday if you tell them you've lost your job. After all, they benefit by earning more interest whilst you're not making payments. Of course, there are many other good reasons to want that much liquid cash in the bank.

angarg12 9y ago

GDC: How to Survive in Gamedev for Eleven Years Without a Hit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmwbYl6f11c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmwbYl6f11c TL;DR: prepare for this to happen, and build a long tail of games/sales. I don't want to sound mean but I don't think anyone should buy the game because they feel sorry and he is begging. I can't condone it. It has become trendy for people to make GoFundMe campaigns or write articles begging people to help. Assume people do buy your game because they are sorry, and you manage to get by. Is that how you intend to create a sustainable business? What about other indie devs who failed, maybe even harder? Should they also write articles with their sad story? What about those who don't make it to the top of Hackernews? Should what is essentially charity support people taking risks? I take this article as a cautionary tale of what could go wrong when you go indie, one of those that we need more of in face of the wild success stories that saturate media.

cylinder 9y ago
It doesn't seem like a business story really, it seems like an artist / craftsman wanted to practice his craft and ran into commercial realities. It's a starving artist situation. There wasn't any market analysis, financial analysis, etc upfront. He wanted to make a game, and he did, so he should be commended for that. It wasn't really a business venture.
- krapp 9y ago
  I think it became a business story as soon as the developer quit his job and risked his future livelihood on sales. He could have worked on the game in his free time and released it for free, otherwise.
  - twothamendment 9y ago
    That is exactly why I'm happy working for someone else. I love to code, solve problems and make things. I do not what to run a business. As soon as you are in your own you are running a business.
    - 9y ago

unreal37 9y ago

I wonder how many hundreds of sales he got simply from that article.

stfwn 9y ago

I'd say the learning experience should be to manage your own expectations. In my experience in music many musicians set out to ‘make it’ without defining what that is at all. They don't define success, so they'll always feel bad about not having achieved it. The musicians that actually ‘make it’ are those guys/girls that say ‘I just want to write one song that is my own’ — ‘I just want to make a 5-song album’ — ‘I just want to play my album in a bar’. ‘I just want to sell a copy to someone I don't know’ — ‘I just want to sell 10 copies to people I don't know.’ ‘I want to play my songs somewhere that is not a bar.’ And every time it turns out the next achievement is just around the corner from where they are, so they always feel good about having achieved something and they always feel motivated to achieve the next thing. This guy better change his blog post to ‘I made a game and I released it on Steam’ and talk about how he's going to take a job in order to fund himself while I tries to sell 100 copies, and then write ‘I sold 100 copies of my game’ and talk about how he will get to 200.