8 ms·

> They end up being forced to compete for the limited pool of educated men not just with their more numerous educated rivals, but also with less educated women

• lotsofpulp 9y ago
  Because biology? Most women prefer a stronger (and taller) man, not just in the physical sense. Also, for status in social circles.
• Santosh83 9y ago
  That's precisely behind the purported problem outlined in the article. Women don't, on average, prefer younger or less educated/earning men as the other way around. As always with social problems, no easy solution is in sight.
  • jabretti 9y ago
    Women tend to desire men who are older, richer and more educated. Men tend to desire women who are young, hot, and of good character. Men can't always get what they want, either, but nobody writes articles about how that's a crisis.
    • sjg007 9y ago
      Realistically you only get 2 of those traits in my opinion.
    • greglindahl 9y ago
      I see "men can't always get what they want either" mentioned in articles all the time.
• Ensorceled 9y ago
  This is addressed in the article: "Mating psychology may not be that malleable." i.e. Biology.
  • Anderkent 9y ago
    Of course that's not necessarily a bad state. Sociology is fixed, biology is mutable - http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/10/society-is-fixed-biology-is-mutable/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/10/society-is-fixed-biolog...
  • mannykannot 9y ago
    Biological explanations for social phenomena are generally frowned upon these days, and they certainly have a poor track record, historically.
    • ghostcluster 9y ago
      Both mating and sexual selection are fundamentally biological issues. > they certainly have a poor track record, historically Evolution: a biological explanation for a social phenomena with a poor track record, historically
    • dwaltrip 9y ago
      Is mate selection primarily a social phenomenon?
    • SamReidHughes 9y ago
      Um, no? Biological explanations work great. Want to explain the social phenomenon of people going home every night? It's biology: they have to sleep. Want to explain why people smoke? They're addicted. Want to explain why grown up adoptees behave more like their biological parents than their adoptive parents? Genetics.
      • mannykannot 9y ago
        I probably should have put 'explanations' in quotes, because I was thinking of the bogus 'biological' just-so stories that have frequently been advanced in the past to 'explain' why women should not or can not do this or that, and the alleged inferiority of various ethnic groups. It is somewhat moot, however, as my comment is mostly about contemporary mores regarding the use of biological explanations (or 'explanations'), though perhaps I was not explicit enough. I don't know enough to have a definite opinion as to whether, or to what extent, biological explanations apply in this case.
• jgh 9y ago
  That's probably what'll end up happening. Right now people have a hard time imagining it because we've been living in a patriarchal society, but I'm willing to bet that in a generation or two there will be fewer hangups about house husbands.
• alva 9y ago
  > If men can increase their pool size, why not women? Women can, it is just they don't want to due to what the majority express as desirable characteristics. It is a sad state of affairs that make both men and women worse off. I know several women in their mid-thirties who adamantly refuse to consider long term partnership with perceived low status males (along lines of status, power, wealth and education). The main issue they seem to run into is this. The small pool of highly educated, high status and wealthy men are essentially at the top of the sexual marketplace. Considering the purchasing power (excuse the term, but it makes sense) these men have, they tend to optimise for traits many men find desirable. Finding an "equal" man in your mid-thirties as a women is very hard. Funnily enough, polygamy in societies partly resolves this distribution problem for women. The problems it causes amongst a perpetually single mass of men are catastrophic however.
  • xor1 9y ago
    >Finding an "equal" man in your mid-thirties as a women is very hard. Finding an "equal" woman in your mid-thirties as a man who doesn't want to date down in terms of education, status, wealth, or mental health is just as difficult.
    • Anderkent 9y ago
      Of course. But most - obvsly overlapping bell curves, but on the median clear difference - men don't care about that as much.
    • tpolzer 9y ago
      So just don't move "up", improve your dating life?
      • deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
    • sjg007 9y ago
      It actually should be easier. Since there are more women at this level then men.
• Alex3917 9y ago
  > Why not increase the pool like men do: go for more younger, possibly less educated men (as the article implies for men)? Because it takes women thousands of times longer to produce a child than men. It's just game theory. Keep in mind also that the average woman doesn't have any magical ability to figure out which men will be successful in advance, otherwise all the top venture capitalists, producers, publishers, etc. would be women.
• steanne 9y ago
  that won't expand the pool as much as you think. it widens it on the education variable, but narrowers it to men who aren't threatened by women who are more educated (and possibly higher-paid) than they are.
  • xor1 9y ago
    >men who aren't threatened by women who are more educated (and possibly higher-paid) than they are Do these people actually exist anymore? What kind of man is really going to pass on an otherwise suitable partner just because she's more educated and makes more money than him? I can't imagine a single person I know thinking something along the lines of "yeah, she's great, but she makes more money than me, it won't work". 3 of my friends make more than their boyfriends. 2 of my friends make less than their girlfriends/wives. I sure wouldn't mind.
    • xedrac 9y ago
      If I'm being honest, this would bother me at some level. Certainly not enough to pass up the opportunity, but somehow I would feel less of a man. I'm sure I would get over it quickly enough, or maybe use it as motivation to become equally educated. I do think it's great that there are so many highly educated women.
      • xor1 9y ago
        I have only dated women smarter/richer than me so far, and yes, it is very motivating.
    • amag 9y ago
      My wife has at times earned more than me but that's never felt threatening. After all, I benefit from her increased income. In fact I would love it if she'd earn enough for me to be a stay home dad without us needing to cut expenses too much.
      • zaarn 9y ago
        That's more of an anecdote than any real data.
• eighthnate 9y ago
  > Considering that we want to eliminate any gaps between the genders, why are educated women limited to educated men of their own ages? Biologically and evolutionarily speaking, men want younger and more fertile women to mate with. Women want established males ( their age or older ) to mate with. > Why not increase the pool like men do: go for more younger, possibly less educated men (as the article implies for men)? As I stated earlier because men want younger women and women want established males. http://static5.businessinsider.com/image/54455482eab8ea361710fecc-800-/dataclysm_35.jpg http://static5.businessinsider.com/image/54455482eab8ea36171... http://www.businessinsider.com/dataclysm-shows-men-are-attracted-to-women-in-their-20s-2014-10 http://www.businessinsider.com/dataclysm-shows-men-are-attra...
  • Arete3141 9y ago
    1. Many women want the option to stay home and raise their own children, at least for a few years. If a woman marries an otherwise-wonderful man who earns half her salary, she will not be able to easily stay home with her own child while maintaining their former standard of living. So there are some logistical concerns here that just aren't there for men. Perhaps in a country with a lot of paid maternity leave, these issues would not be as pronounced. 2. I have trouble with the blanket statement that women "want established males" "biologically and evolutionarily speaking." We live in a society. Peoples' behavior in a society is not some mystery that can only be deciphered by looking at chimpanzees. Our society has some very messed up rules about who gets to have the most power. People respond to and strategize around their current reality. If that reality were to change -- like, if we had free childcare or 4 years paid maternity leave, or some other radical shift -- many of these calculations would "magically" fall away.
    • taejo 9y ago
      > Many women want the option to stay home and raise their own children, at least for a few years. > So there are some logistical concerns here that just aren't there for men. It's true that more women want this than men, certainly in the U.S., but you can't say the concerns "just aren't there for men" -- already in this thread there are men saying they want to be stay-at-home dads.
• dgudkov 9y ago
  Because women typically have different mating strategy -- hypergamy, which goal is to decrease the mating pool size as much as possible down to the best candidate. Men's mating strategy is polygamy which is increasing the pool size as much as possible. In other words most women would prefer to stay alone forever rather than marry a man who they consider suboptimal. Add to the equation the "mating standards" that are overblown by Hollywood and social media and the picture of dating market becomes even darker. I believe this exact mechanism (also aggravated by social media) is responsible for the decline of fertility rate below the reproduction level in countries with well educated population.
• nradov 9y ago
  Indeed. This is an imaginary crisis invented by people who just want to whine instead of finding solutions for themselves. Travel and online dating are (relatively) cheap. If someone can't find an educated husband in Manhattan then take a trip to Shenzhen or Houston or wherever.
  • lovich 9y ago
    Traveling across the world ain't cheap. Maybe to you but not to the majority of people. When you add on the fact that your have to make multiple trips to meet people, as it's unlikely that you will meet your future spouse on the first trip you make to another area, most people will only be dating within their local area just as an economic necessity
  • watwut 9y ago
    The crisis, according to male psychologue, is that women end up ok being single and don't care about finding partner. Also, women being more competitive for existing males by having sex faster is some kind of problem. Which is, according to him, something entirely different then dudes being single in Sillicon Valley where is surplus of males. Because, again, according to him, these dudes can find one night stands and care more about those anyway and thus everything is cool there.
• Balgair 9y ago
  In addition to 'A+' women not wanting to marry/date 'C-' men, those same men seem to be adverse to dating those women. The asymmetry in income and societal 'respect' is often too much for the ego. Her family may see him as 'below' her, her friends think she can do 'better', etc. The man then decides to not pursue the woman to begin with. Think Aladdin, but without Robin Williams. This leaves the women in an even smaller dating pool. But I think this is unlikely. In general, women want a 'real man', which is often not the opposite of a woman, but the opposite of a 'boy'. What 'real man' is does vary widely from culture, place, and decade. However, a 'real' man does have some similar base ideals across time and space. They are the 3 P's: Protector, Provider, Procreater. A 'real' man must have all 3, or be lacking in 1 but make up for it in the other 2. Missing 2 of the P's is almost certainly a DQ. For a very long and in-depth discussion, start here: https://www.artofmanliness.com/2014/03/31/the-3-ps-of-manhood-a-review/ https://www.artofmanliness.com/2014/03/31/the-3-ps-of-manhoo... These 'A+' women have a high standard for Protector and Provider, as well they should for the amount of effort they put in. How men can fix this is to excel in either the Protector or the Provider category. As the Provider one seems to be much harder, then the women should look for a mate that excels in the Protector category. In essence, go find lumberjacks/cops/firefighters/soldiers/etc.