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> Public bus systems should really be exploring a smaller vehicle model more I asked someone from my local bus service once. Their answer was that it's not eco
by dtech 9y ago
> Public bus systems should really be exploring a smaller vehicle model more
I asked someone from my local bus service once. Their answer was that it's not economically viable for the public bus service, as the only major saving was fuel cost and the extra services don't provide enough revenue to offset the employee cost (otherwise they could service it with the large normal busses).
So basically this becomes viable with increased ticket prices or self-driving busses. The technology isn't quite there yet for the latter, and governments don't like price differentiation in bus lines.
* Maintenance cost per line might go slightly down, but apparantly overal it's more expensive because they need to maintain technicians and parts for more models.
- humanrebar 9y ago> So basically this becomes viable with... Well, some startups think they can make it viable. Either they can or can't, but making fun of them for reinventing "buses" isn't going to help. Likely any company in this space is looking to as many users as possible while breaking even, banking on self-driving tech developing in the meantime. When the vans drive themselves, the economics will change drastically.
- lotsofpulp 9y agoWhen your biggest expense is employees, it's obvious that you're not going to get anywhere without increasing revenue or decreasing # of employees.
- brandelune 9y agoDecreasing employees, or reducing wages, or renouncing labor regulations that ensure people make a living, etc.
- Cthulhu_ 9y agoThat's when you don't hire employees but entrepreneurs, you know, gig economy so you only need to pay them for however much rides they manage to get instead of a living wage like old fashioned bus drivers get.
- kharms 9y agoA datapoint: there was a startup in Boston named Bridj that folded because it turned out to not be a viable model.
- humanrebar 9y ago...facebook wasn't the first social network. To be clear, I'm not arguing it's a great idea. I'm arguing that it's not worth dismissing the work as ludicrous. The fact that I'm arguing this on HN of all places makes me wonder what happened to the attitudes of hackers, geeks, and entrepreneurs. Let people do something dumb and fail. It's OK to do that sometimes. If it's dumb, don't invest in it.
- snowAbstraction 9y agoTwo comments: 1. Something between taxis and buses could theoretically be viable. 2. Many cities already have rush hour fees on public transportation (or equivalently discounts for off-peak passes) so some price differentiation in bus lines seems possible.
- seszett 9y ago> 2. Many cities already have rush hour fees on public transportation (or equivalently discounts for off-peak passes) so some price differentiation in bus lines seems possible. I have never seen that anywhere in Europe or Canada, does that mean there are two different tickets with different prices, and you have to have both if don't know exactly when you're going to take your bus? Also, I wonder how it works with a monthly or yearly pass.
- fishnchips 9y agoFWIW Thameslink does it in the U.K. for one-way tickets.
- snowAbstraction 9y agoIn the Twin Cites in Minnesota, USA https://www.metrotransit.org/fares-passes https://www.metrotransit.org/fares-passes has rush hours surcharge for most buses and light rail as well as more expensive express buses.
- wastedhours 9y agoI've seen it in a few places, and it's common on the London Underground where you have a peak/off-peak fare - you're charged for pay as you go and it's your responsibility to know which fare you're going to be charged for the journey. It's also common on the trains, where most have a peak price (usually only in the morning). For season tickets (monthly, yearly), all fares are usually included (i.e. your pass allows you to travel any time, very rare to find an "off peak only" seasonal pass, although some people, like OAPs have them).
- 9y ago
- thriftwy 9y ago> Their answer was that it's not economically viable for the public bus service There's a huge number of dollar van systems all around the world, they're usually profitable, sometimes profitable enough to wage wars against competitors. Public buses: Big, amenities, lose public money. Private minibuses: Small, rough, earn profit. Moreover, they can totally turn the table with regards of quality of life. Village where my granma lived had a bus from the city maybe once per for hours. Now it has some bus still, but also a minibus every 15 minutes! That's a game changer.
- lotsofpulp 9y agoIs there anywhere to compare the wages, credentialing, and insurance of those drivers to those of a city's bus system? It's easy to earn a profit when you don't pay taxes or have to worry about liability insurance.
- thriftwy 9y agoYou say "credentials and insurance" I hear "red tape and rent-seeking". UPD: But yes, they do have some paperwork. Its relevance is open to the debate. However, same applies to any paper coming out of public bus system.
- barrkel 9y agoYou say "red tape and rent-seeking", and I hear "fly-by-night operators, fraudsters and scammers".
- technotony 9y ago> So basically this becomes viable with increased ticket prices or self-driving busses. The technology isn't quite there yet for the latter No, but it will get there so proving the business model/market demand now then buying the tech when it's ready might be worth a vc investing in.
- baybal2 9y agoUber for buses anyone? Back in early nineties in Russia, when the public transport system ceased to exist in almost all second tier cities and below. People were relying in people driving on mini-van taxis that were driving "approximate routes" where the driver was changing his route at will to get more passengers. You was signalling to the driver by hand to be picked up, telling where you go, and he will tell if his current route passes by that place.
- lykr0n 9y agohttps://www.chariot.com/ https://www.chariot.com/ seems to try and do this. Get enough people going in the same direction, and they setup a route for you.
- archagon 9y agoI was just in St. Petersburg, Russia, and the city is chock-full of these tiny taxi-buses called "marshrutki". You can use the regular public transit card and everything — costs the same as a regular bus IIRC. Seems to work great and has since Soviet times.
- pbhjpbhj 9y agoLike an Isuzu van[1] with 5 rows of seats? In Greece I think they're called "dolmush" (meaning 'stuffed'), in Kenya "mtatus" (meaning 'worry'). 1 - https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Isuzu_Elf_Route-van_005.JPG https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Isuzu_Elf_Route-va...
- fapjacks 9y agoIn southeast Asia: Jitney or Jeepney.
- wruza 9y agoIt has to be resurrection of the idea in [probably] better way. These marshrutki were prohibited/heavily restructured long time ago, because everything was wrong with them: drugged drivers, half-working brakes, non-closing doors, refuelling with passengers inside, overloading, uncontrolled cash. These still appear in smaller cities (in much better state), but it is surprising for me to hear about it in SPB. Not a St.Petersburg citizen though, maybe they managed it right way from the start, but these minibuses appeared long since SU (assuming we’re talking about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GAZelle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GAZelle ). Transporting system of SU was a thing that I really hated in my partially soviet childhood. “Let’s go to ...” was one of worst things I could hear.
- selimthegrim 9y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dollar_van https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dollar_van