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I'm disappointed none of the various constructed "universal" languages (like Esperanto) ever took off. Having a single common language spoken by everyone would

I'm disappointed none of the various constructed "universal" languages (like Esperanto) ever took off. Having a single common language spoken by everyone would be enormously useful. As it is, the closest we have is English, but it's a natural language and therefore complicated and difficult to learn.

theshrike79 9y ago
English is a surprisingly versatile language. You can get your point across with pidgin english just fine, and it's the most spoken language in the world. On the other hand you have people who master the language on a whole new level, like Douglas Adams.
- superplussed 9y ago
  Chinese is #1 according to Wikipedia.
  - Freak_NL 9y ago
    That list comes with a fair warning about its reliability at the top though¹. English is indisputably the largest second language (L2) spoken in the world, and is vying for the position of most spoken language with Mandarin Chinese. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_total_number_of_speakers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_total_num...
    - bpicolo 9y ago
      "For example, English has about 400 million native speakers but, depending on the criterion chosen, can be said to have as many as 2 billion speakers." So depending on how you choose you metric, English wins overall
  - hnaccount91 9y ago
    Yeah, but it's all inside one region isn't it? Comprising of China (obv), HK/Macau, Taiwan and parts of Vietnam maybe (not sure). Like everyone likes citing this fact to me as though it is mind bending, but if that language is never going to spread out, then what's the point of counting it as a "widely" spoken language.
HumanDrivenDev 9y ago
One thing I like about Interligua is that... I can read it with just a bit of difficulty, despite not having learned it. I'm a native english speaker with high school french. I imagine native speakers of romance languages could read it fluently. That's a huge percentage of the worlds population right there. It seems like a much better idea than esperanto.
swyx 9y ago
even within English we have a ton of local and regional variances in everything from accent to connotation to words to the point that some variants aren't even intelligible. Check out the Ocracoke Brogue: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csfyrRqc5TU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csfyrRqc5TU and that's right in the heart of North America! i'm no linguist but my familiarity with german/chinese and a smattering of other languages has led me to conclude that humans have an inbuilt tendency to just mess things up just because. If there's a grammar rule that can be broken or inverted, some language out there will do it. the tower of babel is encoded in our DNA. The Diryabal language even has a gender for vegetables and fruits. (http://www.superlinguo.com/post/5746695497/lady-nouns-and-vegetable-nouns-the-idea-of http://www.superlinguo.com/post/5746695497/lady-nouns-and-ve... and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyirbal_language https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyirbal_language)
Swizec 9y ago
And yet easy enough for basically everyone in the world to learn. Just think, it could’ve been French. It was dominant for many many years. Russian was a huge candidate as well. Wanna learn that? I’m a native Slavic speaker and I wouldn’t wish a Slavic language on anyone who needs to become fluent enough to do business. Spanish was (is?) a big candidate too, that one is about as hard as English i guess. Portuguese? I can’t tell how hard it is, but it sounds more difficult to me than Spanish. Arabic was a strong contender once upon a time as well. That to me seems very difficult to learn. Of course we could go for Chinese. I hear that’s easy to learn conceptually, but hard to learn how to speak properly. Ultimately we landed on English in part because of the cultural and historical dominance, and in part because it’s just easy enough for anyone to become fluent enough. The nice thing about it is that it steals language constructs and words so liberally from other languages that anyone can find something familiar to grab onto.
- vslira 9y ago
  I second this feeling. I'm not a native English speaker but I often see myself hoping that it becomes ever more prevalent. Unfortunately there's a lot of resistance to accepting it as the official universal language, not in small part due to the anti-multeralist stance of the major anglo nations. One can only hope Brexit doesn't make German a virtual necessity to deal with the EU in the long term.
  - blattimwind 9y ago
    > One can only hope Brexit doesn't make German a virtual necessity to deal with the EU in the long term. The EU has had more than twenty official languages for many years, I don't think it is likely at all that this will suddenly change to one language. I also don't think there is any chance for English being removed, since it is the most widely understood language in the union (the UK being a member or not has no relevance to that).
    - germanier 9y ago
      Internally the EU uses almost only French, English, and (to a much lesser degree) German. Many documents are only available in French and English.
gattilorenz 9y ago
To my understanding, the problem is that the nuances and subtleties of natural languages are not possible (or not as easy to convey) in artificial languages, for a number of reasons. This makes it impractical for real use: imagine diplomats having to speak their mind instead of beating around the bush :) But if you are interested in universal languages, I suggest you to check out Sol-re-sol [1]. I have read the story in Paul Collins' "Banvard's Folly" and have been fascinated by it ever since. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solresol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solresol
PeachPlum 9y ago
Lingo ain't, like, fixed, blood. Your spitting is tripping.
hans_mueller 9y ago
yes, but the English spoken by most non-natives is actually something like an Esperanto. the pronunciation, vocabulary and grammar is almost normalized and an artificial dialect. i think English is a very good compromise. the only problem are French people and other communities who disdain English for patriotical, historical, or political reasons.
- meigwilym 9y ago
  I think My Language is a good compromise. The only problem are not My Language speakers and other communities who disdain My Language for patriotic, historic or political reasons.
  - hans_mueller 9y ago
    as my fake username suggests - I'm a German.
  - matt4077 9y ago
    I'm a native speaker of German, and anytime someone wants to try their mediocre German on my, I cringe, and quickly move to English to move the conversation along. For some reason, it's not half has horrible to listen to broken English. Unless it's by Germans, in which case I usually leave the room. Or drop the class, as it happened during my studies.
- cm2187 9y ago
  And it's called "airport english"
  - matt4077 9y ago
    I always thought Wolf Blitzer was "airport english"
- dandare 9y ago
  English is considered to be very difficult language and I find it to be a historical tragedy that English became the lingua franca of the world. I remember that as a child I could not wrap my head around the "spelling competitions" I saw in English cartoons. What is the deal with spelling words? If you can say it you just spelled it, if you can read it you just pronanceed it. And that is only one of many things that make English difficult. Only Chinese Mandarin with its tonality could be worse (will be worse?).
dopkew 9y ago
For me it is Lojban. But I haven't gotten around to learning it.
- Pranz 9y ago
  ui. mi darsygau do nu cilre fi lo lojbo
zerostar07 9y ago
We have english. Although not a technically great language, it s a savior in Europe. In fact, with the UK gone, i think EU should adopt it as primary lingua franca.
- bantunes 9y ago
  Still an official language in the EU because Ireland (and Cyprus and Malta, to an extent). Right?
  - danmaz74 9y ago
    Actually, Ireland chose Gaelic as their official language, and I think the same thing is true for Cyprus and Malta. So, when the UK leaves, there could be no member with English as its official language (the UK is still part of the EU until 2019).
    - donaltroddyn 9y ago
      In Ireland, both English and Irish (Gaeilge in Irish - not Gaelic) are our official languages, and both are also official languages of the EU. English is also an official language in Malta, but not Cyprus.
  - zerostar07 9y ago
    Yes, but with the UK gone there will be less nagging from the french :)
    - baud147258 9y ago
      No, we'll continue to nag, but about something else (we'll find something easily). Still I think UE should keep English, since it's already in place and I don't think it would be useful to switch to French.
- danmaz74 9y ago
  Agreed. If only we could fix the non-phonetic spelling...
akvadrako 9y ago
Esperanto is still growing; I wouldn't give up on it yet. It's only recently been added to Duolingo. The main reason is that it's so much easier to learn than English, it can be taught "for free". Basically, instead of just teaching the target language, first teach Esperanto. At the end of a fixed time, students are better at the target language. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaedeutic_value_of_Esperanto https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaedeutic_value_of_Esperant...
mannykannot 9y ago
Globish is one attempt at a simplified English. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Globish_(Nerriere) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Globish_(Nerriere)
lamby 9y ago
> Having a single common language spoken by everyone would be enormously useful In the same way that having a single programming language would be, right? :) Joking aside, I find having multiple languages part of the charm of being a homo sapiens. We would be missing some colour in our world if we all communicated in the same tongue and, indeed, I don't think it would solve many real-life issues around _miscommunication_.

theshrike79 9y ago

English is a surprisingly versatile language. You can get your point across with pidgin english just fine, and it's the most spoken language in the world. On the other hand you have people who master the language on a whole new level, like Douglas Adams.

superplussed 9y ago
Chinese is #1 according to Wikipedia.
- Freak_NL 9y ago
  That list comes with a fair warning about its reliability at the top though¹. English is indisputably the largest second language (L2) spoken in the world, and is vying for the position of most spoken language with Mandarin Chinese. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_total_number_of_speakers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_total_num...
  - bpicolo 9y ago
    "For example, English has about 400 million native speakers but, depending on the criterion chosen, can be said to have as many as 2 billion speakers." So depending on how you choose you metric, English wins overall
- hnaccount91 9y ago
  Yeah, but it's all inside one region isn't it? Comprising of China (obv), HK/Macau, Taiwan and parts of Vietnam maybe (not sure). Like everyone likes citing this fact to me as though it is mind bending, but if that language is never going to spread out, then what's the point of counting it as a "widely" spoken language.

HumanDrivenDev 9y ago

One thing I like about Interligua is that... I can read it with just a bit of difficulty, despite not having learned it. I'm a native english speaker with high school french. I imagine native speakers of romance languages could read it fluently. That's a huge percentage of the worlds population right there. It seems like a much better idea than esperanto.

swyx 9y ago

even within English we have a ton of local and regional variances in everything from accent to connotation to words to the point that some variants aren't even intelligible. Check out the Ocracoke Brogue: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csfyrRqc5TU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csfyrRqc5TU and that's right in the heart of North America! i'm no linguist but my familiarity with german/chinese and a smattering of other languages has led me to conclude that humans have an inbuilt tendency to just mess things up just because. If there's a grammar rule that can be broken or inverted, some language out there will do it. the tower of babel is encoded in our DNA. The Diryabal language even has a gender for vegetables and fruits. (http://www.superlinguo.com/post/5746695497/lady-nouns-and-vegetable-nouns-the-idea-of http://www.superlinguo.com/post/5746695497/lady-nouns-and-ve... and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyirbal_language https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyirbal_language)

Swizec 9y ago

And yet easy enough for basically everyone in the world to learn. Just think, it could’ve been French. It was dominant for many many years. Russian was a huge candidate as well. Wanna learn that? I’m a native Slavic speaker and I wouldn’t wish a Slavic language on anyone who needs to become fluent enough to do business. Spanish was (is?) a big candidate too, that one is about as hard as English i guess. Portuguese? I can’t tell how hard it is, but it sounds more difficult to me than Spanish. Arabic was a strong contender once upon a time as well. That to me seems very difficult to learn. Of course we could go for Chinese. I hear that’s easy to learn conceptually, but hard to learn how to speak properly. Ultimately we landed on English in part because of the cultural and historical dominance, and in part because it’s just easy enough for anyone to become fluent enough. The nice thing about it is that it steals language constructs and words so liberally from other languages that anyone can find something familiar to grab onto.

vslira 9y ago
I second this feeling. I'm not a native English speaker but I often see myself hoping that it becomes ever more prevalent. Unfortunately there's a lot of resistance to accepting it as the official universal language, not in small part due to the anti-multeralist stance of the major anglo nations. One can only hope Brexit doesn't make German a virtual necessity to deal with the EU in the long term.
- blattimwind 9y ago
  > One can only hope Brexit doesn't make German a virtual necessity to deal with the EU in the long term. The EU has had more than twenty official languages for many years, I don't think it is likely at all that this will suddenly change to one language. I also don't think there is any chance for English being removed, since it is the most widely understood language in the union (the UK being a member or not has no relevance to that).
  - germanier 9y ago
    Internally the EU uses almost only French, English, and (to a much lesser degree) German. Many documents are only available in French and English.

gattilorenz 9y ago

To my understanding, the problem is that the nuances and subtleties of natural languages are not possible (or not as easy to convey) in artificial languages, for a number of reasons. This makes it impractical for real use: imagine diplomats having to speak their mind instead of beating around the bush :) But if you are interested in universal languages, I suggest you to check out Sol-re-sol [1]. I have read the story in Paul Collins' "Banvard's Folly" and have been fascinated by it ever since. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solresol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solresol

PeachPlum 9y ago

Lingo ain't, like, fixed, blood. Your spitting is tripping.

hans_mueller 9y ago

yes, but the English spoken by most non-natives is actually something like an Esperanto. the pronunciation, vocabulary and grammar is almost normalized and an artificial dialect. i think English is a very good compromise. the only problem are French people and other communities who disdain English for patriotical, historical, or political reasons.

meigwilym 9y ago
I think My Language is a good compromise. The only problem are not My Language speakers and other communities who disdain My Language for patriotic, historic or political reasons.
- hans_mueller 9y ago
  as my fake username suggests - I'm a German.
- matt4077 9y ago
  I'm a native speaker of German, and anytime someone wants to try their mediocre German on my, I cringe, and quickly move to English to move the conversation along. For some reason, it's not half has horrible to listen to broken English. Unless it's by Germans, in which case I usually leave the room. Or drop the class, as it happened during my studies.
cm2187 9y ago
And it's called "airport english"
- matt4077 9y ago
  I always thought Wolf Blitzer was "airport english"
dandare 9y ago
English is considered to be very difficult language and I find it to be a historical tragedy that English became the lingua franca of the world. I remember that as a child I could not wrap my head around the "spelling competitions" I saw in English cartoons. What is the deal with spelling words? If you can say it you just spelled it, if you can read it you just pronanceed it. And that is only one of many things that make English difficult. Only Chinese Mandarin with its tonality could be worse (will be worse?).

dopkew 9y ago

For me it is Lojban. But I haven't gotten around to learning it.

Pranz 9y ago
ui. mi darsygau do nu cilre fi lo lojbo

zerostar07 9y ago

We have english. Although not a technically great language, it s a savior in Europe. In fact, with the UK gone, i think EU should adopt it as primary lingua franca.

bantunes 9y ago
Still an official language in the EU because Ireland (and Cyprus and Malta, to an extent). Right?
- danmaz74 9y ago
  Actually, Ireland chose Gaelic as their official language, and I think the same thing is true for Cyprus and Malta. So, when the UK leaves, there could be no member with English as its official language (the UK is still part of the EU until 2019).
  - donaltroddyn 9y ago
    In Ireland, both English and Irish (Gaeilge in Irish - not Gaelic) are our official languages, and both are also official languages of the EU. English is also an official language in Malta, but not Cyprus.
- zerostar07 9y ago
  Yes, but with the UK gone there will be less nagging from the french :)
  - baud147258 9y ago
    No, we'll continue to nag, but about something else (we'll find something easily). Still I think UE should keep English, since it's already in place and I don't think it would be useful to switch to French.
danmaz74 9y ago
Agreed. If only we could fix the non-phonetic spelling...

akvadrako 9y ago

Esperanto is still growing; I wouldn't give up on it yet. It's only recently been added to Duolingo. The main reason is that it's so much easier to learn than English, it can be taught "for free". Basically, instead of just teaching the target language, first teach Esperanto. At the end of a fixed time, students are better at the target language. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaedeutic_value_of_Esperanto https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaedeutic_value_of_Esperant...

mannykannot 9y ago

Globish is one attempt at a simplified English. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Globish_(Nerriere) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Globish_(Nerriere)

lamby 9y ago

> Having a single common language spoken by everyone would be enormously useful In the same way that having a single programming language would be, right? :) Joking aside, I find having multiple languages part of the charm of being a homo sapiens. We would be missing some colour in our world if we all communicated in the same tongue and, indeed, I don't think it would solve many real-life issues around _miscommunication_.