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Choosy Eggs May Pick Sperm for Their Genes, Defying Mendel’s Law
- cwkoss 9y agoReminds me of the CS problem: write a program which prints out its own source code. But way more impressive. How can a cell with a single strand of DNA 'decide' which copy of a gene is a mutation? Or do eggs just bias for sperm with more genetic differences?
- jblow 9y agocrc32
- vikiomega9 9y agoThese decisions interface via binding sites[1] which can be thought of as having "bias". [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binding_site https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binding_site
- sjg007 9y agoIf I understand correctly, they see associations of alleles in the zygotes that suggest the gametes have not paired randomly. Basically it could be that the egg and the sperm have different proteins expressed on their cellular surfaces which go together like a lock and key and may also function as attractors ( chemical sensing or something).. all of this would originate from genes in the gametes.
- chiefalchemist 9y agoDoes this (read: could this) help explain why some couples have problems conceiving? Perhaps, at least in some cases, the egg is saying, "no way buddy."
- thiagocsf 9y agoI haven’t looked it up but I’d say there’s anectodal evidence of couples that conceived with different partners after having trouble conceiving between them.
- novalis78 9y agoJust met an airbnb host with the exact same story. Tried for years then broke up - both had kids right away with their new partners
- chiefalchemist 9y agoAnd a miscarriage is the egg doing a "Oops. Got that one wrong"?
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- louhike 9y agoYou cannot throw this kind of jokes around given how this subject can be hard to read for people to which it happened. HN is a community with people of lot of different backgrounds so it's important to be careful.
- gjjrfcbugxbhf 9y agoPlease don't speak for other people we don't need your protection. Edit: miscarriages are incredibly common. This will/has affected people of almost all backgrounds. The culture of silence on the topic leaves you totally unprepared for it as a reality.
- kwhitefoot 9y agoThe problem is that 'miscarriage' covers everything from what seems like just a late period to something really quite awful. I agree that silence doesn't help and on HN is most likely unnecessary. But in general conversation it is reasonable to be a bit more circumspect.
- Alex3917 9y ago> Perhaps, at least in some cases, the egg is saying, "no way buddy." Assuming this is true, it would be happening in less than 1% of cases (given the prevalence of male-factor infertility and the prevalence of its known causes). So if such an ability exists, it doesn't seem to be getting used very often. Which, given the evolutionary complexity that would be required to evolve such a system, seems surprising. So my guess is that either that's not a thing, or else it exists only as a failure state of some other mechanism rather than as something that has evolved to directly confer some sort of reproductive advantage.
- gjjrfcbugxbhf 9y agoI thought that partner incompatibility was extremely common?
- caio1982 9y agoJust incompatibility, without the partner. Fluids pH problems are much more common than you'd think, and it has nothing to do with the partner (besides being treatable). And it's just one of the many problems that may occur, but none of them is like a partner issue because your bodies don't "match".
- chiefalchemist 9y agoYes. But if the egg is making a decision can't other parts of the process, at least in theory, be serving as gate keepers as well? Thst is, it's not just the egg being selective. Selective is baked into the recieving organism (i.e., the human female). To me that doesn't sound too far fetched and to some extent makes perfect sense.
- golemotron 9y agoThe biggest issue in conception is the age of the mother [1]. As couples don't attempt pregnancy until later (often their mid 30s) this effect is masked as partner incompatibility. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_and_female_fertility https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_and_female_fertility
- klmr 9y agoUnlikely. As a selective mechanism its effect would be very subtle, and there are other, well-known, much stronger mechanisms that prevent conception. Age of the mother was mentioned. More generally, it’s defects in the oocyte’s ability to perform chromosome segregation or to nest in the uterine lining.
- rllin 9y agoI feel like this is a misunderstanding how strict Mendelian genetics is. Most evolutionary theorists think more like physicists and do realize every trait is selectable.
- gewa 9y agoThis... Mendel's law is only applicable to a really small hand full of traits.
- dekhn 9y agoTry saying that around a geneticist :( most i know consider mendelian genetics to apply to everything and nearly all traits/phylogenies are considered monogenic.
- klmr 9y agoYou hang out with the wrong geneticists. Most do not consider most traits to be monogenetic. It’s just vastly easier to focus on them when doing research. But the field as a whole has long since accepted that most interesting traits aren’t Mendelian. The whole field of GWAS and (e)QTL studies is founded around that recognition, and virtually all modern genetic models assume at least an additive effect of (known and unknown) variations as contributors to a given phenotype (and have, for a very long time).
- mannykannot 9y agoThis is a problem I have with this sort of journalism. In the big picture, the prevalence of the effect is low, and so we do not have to throw away all of reproductive and evolutionary biology as a consequence, but that is exactly what creationists will claim.
- biomcgary 9y agoThe current evidence is inconclusive, but many obvious alternatives have been ruled out.
- pishpash 9y agoFurthermore, if true, it shouldn't be overly surprising, since gametes are another stage in the life of an organism with great selection pressure. Why assume it behaves randomly?
- virmundi 9y agoNo known sense organs to pick another environmental benefit. Classic biology assumes such a means to respond by selecting in this case.
- gowld 9y agoDid they rule out the possibility that the mutant gene they put in the male mice caused the sperm to be bad at sperming?
- psloth 9y ago"Perhaps, Nadeau reasoned, the problem lay in the sperm, not the egg. He therefore bred male mice with and without the mutation to healthy mutation-free females and found no differences in the males’ fertility"
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- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- graeme 9y agoI thought the standard view was that eggs did some selecting. At least, that’s what I gathered by reading about IVF and birth defects. I can’t find a specific reference offhand though.
- avdempsey 9y agoCool to seen this on HN; my wife did the illustration for this article!
- caio1982 9y agoShe did a great job!
- m3kw9 9y agoIt would make evolutionary sense to have the ability to select better sperm.
- sjg007 9y agoI thought there was evidence that the female immune system also "selects" against some sperm as well.
- mozumder 9y agoThis probably answers a question I have about genetics - that there just isn't enough variety if reproduction was random. Genetic differences that have no bearing on survivability, like skin patterns or colors or whatever, should be widespread through every species, but they're not.
- andai 9y agoThat's really interesting to think about. Somewhat related, I asked a geneticist once why there was so much diversity in humans vs pigeons which all looked the same to me. He said, "We're tuned to notice differences between people, not pigeons. Perhaps we all look the same to them!" Perhaps there is precisely this sort of random variation in the differences we don't notice, because by being oblivious to them they are not sexually selected for or against?
- rsynnott 9y agoIf anything, humans have abnormally _small_ genetic diversity; most species have more. We went through a population trap at some point in the past, and nearly went extinct; we probably lost most of our diversity then.
- azeotropic 9y agoSkin patterns and colors do have impacts on survivability! Some species use camouflage to avoid predation, others use bright coloration to attract mates. There's also a flaw in your premise -- reproduction is not random, it's subject to selection at a number of levels. Most selective forces act to reduce genetic diversity, both at the selected gene, and at nearby genes.
- amelius 9y agoNot a biologist, but wouldn't an alternative hypothesis be that the DDX1 gene somehow affects the sperm cell's physical abilities, e.g. motility?
- skate22 9y agoSo... we are the chosen ones?
- rscar 9y agoDon't be surprised if Todd Akin comes out of the woodwork to say he was right. i.e. Mr. "It seems to be, first of all, from what I understand from doctors, it’s really rare. If it’s a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut the whole thing down."
- phaitour 9y agothis is interestingly in line with chinese traditional medicines perspective on reproduction. their theory is that it’s heavily based on the receptability of the egg and therefore it’s largely the mother who’s largely in control of things like gender selection. things like eating more acidic or basic foods affect the environment for the sperm to swim in and even the month of the mother’s life has an effect on what the egg would choose.
- Guph 9y agoWow, this artical while interesting is written with feminazi all over it. Even the first paragraph is has suble choiice of words showing such bioas. And the rest is oozing with it. But besides that aspect. It quite intriguing what they stumbled onto. They don't quite understand things but they know it's not what they first understood.