6 ms·

It's great to see more investment into this disease. When my grandma fought Alzheimer's over the span of a decade it was very striking to see that the effect o

It's great to see more investment into this disease. When my grandma fought Alzheimer's over the span of a decade it was very striking to see that the effect of a lack of hydration and the disease itself kind of overlapped. When she had a particularly bad day we used to give her a saline IV and you could immediately notice how she cleared up and regained her brain powers after each IV. I'm not up to date on current research into that direction, but I think hydration plays a very big role in Alzeimer's symptoms on the elderly. I know it sounds ridiculous, but once I'm rich enough I want to build an elderly care center/hospital with urine-based hydration monitoring for each participant so family members can be sure that their loved ones have a healthy water intake each and every day.

taf2 9y ago
I think the toilet in general could use an upgrade... for how many years have they been built exactly the same way? Has anyone ever done a study of the flow as urine impacts the toilet and bounces back? Or as we learn more about the importance of stomach bacteria, can our toilet start to do more monitoring of the bacteria in our stomach? Love your idea of hydration monitoring and think the application is probably more far reaching than just Alzheimer’s
- bflesch 9y ago
  Yes, I think it makes more sense to monitor and gather data on what comes out of your body instead of monitoring what goes into it(e.g. all smartwatches/diets). I'd like to one day have a room-sized analysis unit which screens feces/urine of all attached toilets and performs various tests on it. Analysis results could be assigned to individuals based on the DNA footprint. It could immediately tell you that your sugar intake is too high or that you should drink more water. With this kind of immediate feedback people will be able to live healthier because they can correlate food <-> result on their body. Also we could do so many interesting studies..
  - StudentStuff 9y ago
    It'd be great to be able to pull glucose, hydration and more out of urine samples real time, so long as we stay away from say live telemetry to insurers or something like SmartPipe[1] it'd be enormously beneficial. 1 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJklHwoYgBQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJklHwoYgBQ
    - bflesch 9y ago
      In health this would be massively beneficial. Imagine a digital hospital where you monitor excrements for every patient during their stay. When my father was in the stroke unit recently they had him drink a shitload of water and they monitored water intake by making him write down how much he drank and when. Stupid thing is I need a 100M exit first to sponsor this kind of thing.
      - zafka 9y ago
        I do not think you need an exit to sponsor this. How about starting a web site that outlines all your ideas? Start building interest in the idea. Invite discussion.....
      - jonwachob91 9y ago
        I'm obviously not familiar with your dad's specifics, BUT hospitals will sometimes require tracking of fluid intake to help track kidney function post stroke. It's not the most common thing, so a physician would have needed supporting evidence to indicate the potential of kidney failure. Just something to keep in mind :)
    - koolba 9y ago
      > ... so long as we stay away from say live telemetry to insurers ... Consumers have demonstrated that they're willing to save $5-20 a month in exchange for sending gym checkins[1], daily steps counts, or digital monitoring of their driving habits[2] uploaded to their insurers. I don't think it'll ever be mandatory but I can see a day where the "discount" for agreeing to continuous monitoring and data upload is so great that it'd be cost prohibitive for the average consumer to not be a part of it. On the personal health front I think the biggest stopper is the cost of the data collection devices. That's what's relegated it to higher end targets like diabetic monitors (for now). [1]: https://www.bluecrossmn.com/healthy/public/personal/home/livehealthy/lh-health-programs-discounts/lh-fitness-discounts-public https://www.bluecrossmn.com/healthy/public/personal/home/liv... [2]: https://www.progressive.com/auto/discounts/snapshot/#2 https://www.progressive.com/auto/discounts/snapshot/#2
- pyreton 9y ago
  Here's an article on "Smart Toilets": https://singularityhub.com/2009/05/12/smart-toilets-doctors-in-your-bathroom/ https://singularityhub.com/2009/05/12/smart-toilets-doctors-...
- Tharkun 9y ago
  The toilet and the stomach bacteria rarely encounter one another, unless you throw up on a regular basis. You're probably referring to gut bacteria, which live in your colon. It's true that a lot of research is being done towards these bacteria, and they appear to play an important role in various systems. However, stools are usually coated in a thin layer of mucus -- which makes them a bit shiny and serves as a lubricant. It's unlikely that enough stool interacts with the toilet bowl to get much interesting data out of it. And even if it did, it would probably be contaminated by the presence of other people's stool.
  - pbhjpbhj 9y ago
    If you wanted to get data though it would be easy to macerate the stool to collect samples surely.
    - Tharkun 9y ago
      Sure, but how do you prevent things like TP -- or the previous user -- from contaminating the sample?
- creep 9y ago
  When I was in the hospital for an eating disorder a plastic container was fitted on the toilet with measurements, and my fluid "prescription" would be adjusted. The nurses would also use this to monitor whether or not I was actually drinking the water they gave me, and there was a nurse present in the room, with the door open. This process felt extremely invasive. I would have killed for a toilet like what you describe, and I feel as though my physical/medical treatment would have been more successful. (Somewhat tangentially, the food given at hospitals doesn't make sense for someone who has been nutritionally deficient for years).
- noir_lord 9y ago
  I saw a urinal in the new shopping centre that was an inspired piece of design, it had a curved blade in the centre pointing outwards, no matter which direction you hit it from it couldn't splash back (I tried). Such a simple solution.
photoJ 9y ago
Dehydration and an electrolyte imbalance (in particular lack of sodium) causes both "foggyness" and general confusion in people of all ages. In otherwise healthy American's its rare to have a lack of sodium, but in the ketosis community especially at the start, its something even they have to pay attention to. This is part of the problem with trying treat such diseases is that there are many things co-occurring. Along the same lines, lack of magnesium is very common. Both coffee and booze leach it from ones system, many american adults are encouraged to take a supplement. Lethargy(i.e. lack of focus), rather than disorientation tends to be symptomatic.
DanBC 9y ago
> I'm not up to date on current research into that direction, but I think hydration plays a very big role in Alzeimer's symptoms on the elderly. Here's some recent research you might be interested in: https://www.nutraingredients.com/Article/2017/10/31/Major-EU-funded-Alzheimer-s-trial-reveals-mixed-results-for-daily-nutrition-drink https://www.nutraingredients.com/Article/2017/10/31/Major-EU...
by 9y ago
From personal experience, this is absolutely correct and still a major problem which needs solving. The nurses in hospital will keep a fluids-in fluids-out chart constantly logging their best estimates. Outside hospital this will not happen. Lack of fluids can be fatal. I would not be surprised if this was proven to be a very common cause of fatality for people with dementia. Even in hospital fluids-in fluids-out may not be recorded accurately - the measurements require more human effort and continuity of care than is likely to be available. (It is always best for people to be enabled to do things, for example drinking and eating, for themselves if possible, and this can take a long time.) My guess is that fluids intake could be tackled to some extent by a measured drinking device. The difficulties are spillage being counted as consumption, simple and safe operation for people with lower cognitive, physical and sensory abilities, the need for hospital-level cleanliness of the device, and of course cost. I do not know why we do not have devices like this when people can die from lack of fluids. A less obvious way technical people can help is to test the accessibility of their products. A device with a black button on a black background, or which in some other way obscures its controls and functions, is a failure in this respect. Make all the functions visible, easy to understand and easy to operate. Test websites with automated tools like https://try.powermapper.com/Demo/SortSite https://try.powermapper.com/Demo/SortSite
LeifCarrotson 9y ago
It's especially great to see as someone with several grandparents and grand-uncles who suffer from the disease. I know it's not completely hereditary, but between those 4 and the 2 cases of Parkinsons old age for myself and my family is not looking good. One thing that's confusing and distressing to me is the amount of self-inflicted difficulty that the diseases seem to cause people to suffer from. If asking "What have you had to drink? Have you taken your meds? What have you eaten?" can cause them to feel so much better, what is it about aging, about the treatments, and about the disease that makes people neglect taking care of themselves? It's usually hard to convince someone who is thirsty to not drink. Depending on who you talk to, the level of hydration that results from drinking when you're thirsty may not result in being completely well-hydrated, but that's not difficult or painful to do either - keeping a water bottle with me seems to get close enough. But it's not like you can blame the person with the disease. What's the systematic problem that causes so many elderly to suffer from dehydration?
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
nradov 9y ago
The other side of that is that there are many non-Alzheimer's causes of dementia in elderly patients. If a patient has dementia symptoms (along with a bunch of other problems) it can be really difficult for doctors to diagnose the root cause. For example my grandma's mental capacity was slowly deteriorating and they eventually determined it was because her bone marrow wasn't producing enough red blood cells, thus reducing the oxygen supply to her brain. There have been attempts to build a wearable hydration sensor but no one has made the technology work reliably yet. It's a big potential market if someone can find a solution. https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2016/09/bsx-announces-kickstarter-for-new-lvl-band-wearable-hydration-sensor.html https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2016/09/bsx-announces-kickstarte...

taf2 9y ago

I think the toilet in general could use an upgrade... for how many years have they been built exactly the same way? Has anyone ever done a study of the flow as urine impacts the toilet and bounces back? Or as we learn more about the importance of stomach bacteria, can our toilet start to do more monitoring of the bacteria in our stomach? Love your idea of hydration monitoring and think the application is probably more far reaching than just Alzheimer’s

bflesch 9y ago
Yes, I think it makes more sense to monitor and gather data on what comes out of your body instead of monitoring what goes into it(e.g. all smartwatches/diets). I'd like to one day have a room-sized analysis unit which screens feces/urine of all attached toilets and performs various tests on it. Analysis results could be assigned to individuals based on the DNA footprint. It could immediately tell you that your sugar intake is too high or that you should drink more water. With this kind of immediate feedback people will be able to live healthier because they can correlate food <-> result on their body. Also we could do so many interesting studies..
- StudentStuff 9y ago
  It'd be great to be able to pull glucose, hydration and more out of urine samples real time, so long as we stay away from say live telemetry to insurers or something like SmartPipe[1] it'd be enormously beneficial. 1 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJklHwoYgBQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJklHwoYgBQ
  - bflesch 9y ago
    In health this would be massively beneficial. Imagine a digital hospital where you monitor excrements for every patient during their stay. When my father was in the stroke unit recently they had him drink a shitload of water and they monitored water intake by making him write down how much he drank and when. Stupid thing is I need a 100M exit first to sponsor this kind of thing.
    - zafka 9y ago
      I do not think you need an exit to sponsor this. How about starting a web site that outlines all your ideas? Start building interest in the idea. Invite discussion.....
    - jonwachob91 9y ago
      I'm obviously not familiar with your dad's specifics, BUT hospitals will sometimes require tracking of fluid intake to help track kidney function post stroke. It's not the most common thing, so a physician would have needed supporting evidence to indicate the potential of kidney failure. Just something to keep in mind :)
  - koolba 9y ago
    > ... so long as we stay away from say live telemetry to insurers ... Consumers have demonstrated that they're willing to save $5-20 a month in exchange for sending gym checkins[1], daily steps counts, or digital monitoring of their driving habits[2] uploaded to their insurers. I don't think it'll ever be mandatory but I can see a day where the "discount" for agreeing to continuous monitoring and data upload is so great that it'd be cost prohibitive for the average consumer to not be a part of it. On the personal health front I think the biggest stopper is the cost of the data collection devices. That's what's relegated it to higher end targets like diabetic monitors (for now). [1]: https://www.bluecrossmn.com/healthy/public/personal/home/livehealthy/lh-health-programs-discounts/lh-fitness-discounts-public https://www.bluecrossmn.com/healthy/public/personal/home/liv... [2]: https://www.progressive.com/auto/discounts/snapshot/#2 https://www.progressive.com/auto/discounts/snapshot/#2
pyreton 9y ago
Here's an article on "Smart Toilets": https://singularityhub.com/2009/05/12/smart-toilets-doctors-in-your-bathroom/ https://singularityhub.com/2009/05/12/smart-toilets-doctors-...
Tharkun 9y ago
The toilet and the stomach bacteria rarely encounter one another, unless you throw up on a regular basis. You're probably referring to gut bacteria, which live in your colon. It's true that a lot of research is being done towards these bacteria, and they appear to play an important role in various systems. However, stools are usually coated in a thin layer of mucus -- which makes them a bit shiny and serves as a lubricant. It's unlikely that enough stool interacts with the toilet bowl to get much interesting data out of it. And even if it did, it would probably be contaminated by the presence of other people's stool.
- pbhjpbhj 9y ago
  If you wanted to get data though it would be easy to macerate the stool to collect samples surely.
  - Tharkun 9y ago
    Sure, but how do you prevent things like TP -- or the previous user -- from contaminating the sample?
creep 9y ago
When I was in the hospital for an eating disorder a plastic container was fitted on the toilet with measurements, and my fluid "prescription" would be adjusted. The nurses would also use this to monitor whether or not I was actually drinking the water they gave me, and there was a nurse present in the room, with the door open. This process felt extremely invasive. I would have killed for a toilet like what you describe, and I feel as though my physical/medical treatment would have been more successful. (Somewhat tangentially, the food given at hospitals doesn't make sense for someone who has been nutritionally deficient for years).
noir_lord 9y ago
I saw a urinal in the new shopping centre that was an inspired piece of design, it had a curved blade in the centre pointing outwards, no matter which direction you hit it from it couldn't splash back (I tried). Such a simple solution.

photoJ 9y ago

Dehydration and an electrolyte imbalance (in particular lack of sodium) causes both "foggyness" and general confusion in people of all ages. In otherwise healthy American's its rare to have a lack of sodium, but in the ketosis community especially at the start, its something even they have to pay attention to. This is part of the problem with trying treat such diseases is that there are many things co-occurring. Along the same lines, lack of magnesium is very common. Both coffee and booze leach it from ones system, many american adults are encouraged to take a supplement. Lethargy(i.e. lack of focus), rather than disorientation tends to be symptomatic.

DanBC 9y ago

> I'm not up to date on current research into that direction, but I think hydration plays a very big role in Alzeimer's symptoms on the elderly. Here's some recent research you might be interested in: https://www.nutraingredients.com/Article/2017/10/31/Major-EU-funded-Alzheimer-s-trial-reveals-mixed-results-for-daily-nutrition-drink https://www.nutraingredients.com/Article/2017/10/31/Major-EU...

by 9y ago

From personal experience, this is absolutely correct and still a major problem which needs solving. The nurses in hospital will keep a fluids-in fluids-out chart constantly logging their best estimates. Outside hospital this will not happen. Lack of fluids can be fatal. I would not be surprised if this was proven to be a very common cause of fatality for people with dementia. Even in hospital fluids-in fluids-out may not be recorded accurately - the measurements require more human effort and continuity of care than is likely to be available. (It is always best for people to be enabled to do things, for example drinking and eating, for themselves if possible, and this can take a long time.) My guess is that fluids intake could be tackled to some extent by a measured drinking device. The difficulties are spillage being counted as consumption, simple and safe operation for people with lower cognitive, physical and sensory abilities, the need for hospital-level cleanliness of the device, and of course cost. I do not know why we do not have devices like this when people can die from lack of fluids. A less obvious way technical people can help is to test the accessibility of their products. A device with a black button on a black background, or which in some other way obscures its controls and functions, is a failure in this respect. Make all the functions visible, easy to understand and easy to operate. Test websites with automated tools like https://try.powermapper.com/Demo/SortSite https://try.powermapper.com/Demo/SortSite

LeifCarrotson 9y ago

It's especially great to see as someone with several grandparents and grand-uncles who suffer from the disease. I know it's not completely hereditary, but between those 4 and the 2 cases of Parkinsons old age for myself and my family is not looking good. One thing that's confusing and distressing to me is the amount of self-inflicted difficulty that the diseases seem to cause people to suffer from. If asking "What have you had to drink? Have you taken your meds? What have you eaten?" can cause them to feel so much better, what is it about aging, about the treatments, and about the disease that makes people neglect taking care of themselves? It's usually hard to convince someone who is thirsty to not drink. Depending on who you talk to, the level of hydration that results from drinking when you're thirsty may not result in being completely well-hydrated, but that's not difficult or painful to do either - keeping a water bottle with me seems to get close enough. But it's not like you can blame the person with the disease. What's the systematic problem that causes so many elderly to suffer from dehydration?

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

nradov 9y ago

The other side of that is that there are many non-Alzheimer's causes of dementia in elderly patients. If a patient has dementia symptoms (along with a bunch of other problems) it can be really difficult for doctors to diagnose the root cause. For example my grandma's mental capacity was slowly deteriorating and they eventually determined it was because her bone marrow wasn't producing enough red blood cells, thus reducing the oxygen supply to her brain. There have been attempts to build a wearable hydration sensor but no one has made the technology work reliably yet. It's a big potential market if someone can find a solution. https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2016/09/bsx-announces-kickstarter-for-new-lvl-band-wearable-hydration-sensor.html https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2016/09/bsx-announces-kickstarte...