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How Facebook determines ad placement in news feeds: > Millions of auctions take place every minute as users across Facebook load their feeds. ... The algorithm

How Facebook determines ad placement in news feeds: > Millions of auctions take place every minute as users across Facebook load their feeds. ... The algorithm is constantly learning, using past results to inform how it weighs bids in the next auction. The intent, Facebook says, is to maximize value for everybody: to pair the advertiser with its likeliest customers, and to show ads that users want to see. And, of course, to make money for Facebook. [emphasis mine] So FB wants: 1. advertisers to be successful so that they come back and attract others; 2. users to remain sticky and not be turned off or too distracted by an ad; and 3. sell each ad space at the highest price, so long as 1 and 2 remain true. Interesting business they're in and an incredibly challenging (and fun/rewarding) algorithm to code.

wsinks 9y ago
Sounds like Asimov's 3 laws.
adambyrtek 9y ago
Work on real-time ad auctions is definitely technically challenging, but I'm not convinced about the fun part, and I definitely wouldn't describe that as rewarding (unless you mean that in a purely financial sense).
- ballenf 9y ago
  I was thinking in terms of having the results be immediately measured and quantified. It's kind of a luxury to have such a quick feedback loop. That's all I meant by rewarding, wasn't thinking in financial terms even though that now seems like a more obvious implication.
  - brianpgordon 9y ago
    Given the number of levers they have available to adjust in terms of tuning factors to maximize engagement, and given the changes constantly going out to their platform, and given the changing landscape of the ad market itself over time, I doubt that it's exactly clear to a developer what they're doing right and wrong. Facebook probably has a full-time staff of data scientists to extract conclusions out of that pile of analytics data.
amelius 9y ago
The problem is that it leaks information. If I place an ad for paperclips targeted at cat-lovers, then if you click on my ad and buy paperclips, I know that you are a cat-lover.
- d4l3k 9y ago
  They already allow you to target groups like that. The algorithm doesn't leak anything more.
  - amelius 9y ago
    I'm not sure what you mean. It leaks the targeted group, that was the point.
    - mbesto 9y ago
      I'm not sure I understand your point. It only leaks a subset of data (cat lovers who have an intent to buy paperclips) and is hardly valuable at scale to anyone for anything other than prospecting new customers.
      - sdenton4 9y ago
        I dunno, identifying groups like "Jew-Haters" seems useful beyond "prospecting new customers." For example, if the US government cared about tracking hate groups (as opposed to hiring them into the administration) they could use it to identify people to track.
      - deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
nihonde 9y ago
And yet, advertisers still have no meaningful ROI, because it's never in the platform's interest to overachieve on this count. And, users are still very much annoyed by distracting, irrelevant, or overly-targeted ads.
- maxpupmax 9y ago
  Why do you say that there's no meaningful ROI? I know a lot of marketers and advertisers who have built great businesses off of Facebook Ads. Agree that we need to improve the quality of ads across the board.
  - nihonde 9y ago
    I will answer your question with another: what metric are you using to measure ROI? Edit: When you say you know lots of "marketers and advertisers" that are making money from ads, are you referring to resellers and providers of ad inventory and/or analytics, or are you referring to people who actually sell goods and services other than marketing and advertising inventory?
    - matsur 9y ago
      People entering and converting through a purchase funnel?
      - nihonde 9y ago
        OK, so how is the success of that funnel measured vis-a-vis other promotional channels? And are you able to demonstrate definitively that a visitor from FB concluded a sale? If so, how?
        traek 9y ago
        > OK, so how is the success of that funnel measured vis-a-vis other promotional channels? What difference does it make? If it’s profitable, it’s profitable. > And are you able to demonstrate definitively that a visitor from FB concluded a sale? If so, how? Through the variety of existing measurement solutions, or a custom solution. Twitter: https://business.twitter.com/en/help/campaign-measurement-and-analytics/conversion-tracking-for-websites.html https://business.twitter.com/en/help/campaign-measurement-an... Facebook: https://developers.facebook.com/docs/facebook-pixel/pixel-with-ads/conversion-tracking/ https://developers.facebook.com/docs/facebook-pixel/pixel-wi... Google: https://support.google.com/adwords/answer/1722054?hl=en https://support.google.com/adwords/answer/1722054?hl=en I don’t understand why you seem to think that companies are throwing tens of billions of dollars a year at Facebook (and Google, and Twitter) with not only no returns but also no ability to measure that lack of returns. It’s just such a ridiculous viewpoint to hold.
dingo_bat 9y ago
I wonder where we'd be today if all this effort was focused on something like automatic cars. Instead of spam.
- ISL 9y ago
  Spam, spam, spam, spam, cars, spam, and spam. There's not too much spam in it.
- sebleon 9y ago
  "The best minds of my generation are thinking about how to make people click ads" - original FB data scientist
  - klokoman 9y ago
    Because it is one of the few sectors where you can be a little creative and not obey the rules set by corrupted bureaucrats decades ago
    - chii 9y ago
      And instead follow rules set by investors or corporate vested interests.
- CalRobert 9y ago
  Good question. I graduated college and desperately wanted to work on renewable energy research. After scads of rejections I quit ignoring the expressions of interest in my programming abilities. I still wish I were doing something that actually bettered the world, but I have bills to pay. Then again, maybe ensuring people graduate in debt is a great way to ensure we as a society do what folks with cash want us to instead of what we feel we ought to be doing.

wsinks 9y ago

Sounds like Asimov's 3 laws.

adambyrtek 9y ago

Work on real-time ad auctions is definitely technically challenging, but I'm not convinced about the fun part, and I definitely wouldn't describe that as rewarding (unless you mean that in a purely financial sense).

ballenf 9y ago
I was thinking in terms of having the results be immediately measured and quantified. It's kind of a luxury to have such a quick feedback loop. That's all I meant by rewarding, wasn't thinking in financial terms even though that now seems like a more obvious implication.
- brianpgordon 9y ago
  Given the number of levers they have available to adjust in terms of tuning factors to maximize engagement, and given the changes constantly going out to their platform, and given the changing landscape of the ad market itself over time, I doubt that it's exactly clear to a developer what they're doing right and wrong. Facebook probably has a full-time staff of data scientists to extract conclusions out of that pile of analytics data.

amelius 9y ago

The problem is that it leaks information. If I place an ad for paperclips targeted at cat-lovers, then if you click on my ad and buy paperclips, I know that you are a cat-lover.

d4l3k 9y ago
They already allow you to target groups like that. The algorithm doesn't leak anything more.
- amelius 9y ago
  I'm not sure what you mean. It leaks the targeted group, that was the point.
  - mbesto 9y ago
    I'm not sure I understand your point. It only leaks a subset of data (cat lovers who have an intent to buy paperclips) and is hardly valuable at scale to anyone for anything other than prospecting new customers.
    - sdenton4 9y ago
      I dunno, identifying groups like "Jew-Haters" seems useful beyond "prospecting new customers." For example, if the US government cared about tracking hate groups (as opposed to hiring them into the administration) they could use it to identify people to track.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]

nihonde 9y ago

And yet, advertisers still have no meaningful ROI, because it's never in the platform's interest to overachieve on this count. And, users are still very much annoyed by distracting, irrelevant, or overly-targeted ads.

maxpupmax 9y ago
Why do you say that there's no meaningful ROI? I know a lot of marketers and advertisers who have built great businesses off of Facebook Ads. Agree that we need to improve the quality of ads across the board.
- nihonde 9y ago
  I will answer your question with another: what metric are you using to measure ROI? Edit: When you say you know lots of "marketers and advertisers" that are making money from ads, are you referring to resellers and providers of ad inventory and/or analytics, or are you referring to people who actually sell goods and services other than marketing and advertising inventory?
  - matsur 9y ago
    People entering and converting through a purchase funnel?
    - nihonde 9y ago
      OK, so how is the success of that funnel measured vis-a-vis other promotional channels? And are you able to demonstrate definitively that a visitor from FB concluded a sale? If so, how?
      - traek 9y ago
        > OK, so how is the success of that funnel measured vis-a-vis other promotional channels? What difference does it make? If it’s profitable, it’s profitable. > And are you able to demonstrate definitively that a visitor from FB concluded a sale? If so, how? Through the variety of existing measurement solutions, or a custom solution. Twitter: https://business.twitter.com/en/help/campaign-measurement-and-analytics/conversion-tracking-for-websites.html https://business.twitter.com/en/help/campaign-measurement-an... Facebook: https://developers.facebook.com/docs/facebook-pixel/pixel-with-ads/conversion-tracking/ https://developers.facebook.com/docs/facebook-pixel/pixel-wi... Google: https://support.google.com/adwords/answer/1722054?hl=en https://support.google.com/adwords/answer/1722054?hl=en I don’t understand why you seem to think that companies are throwing tens of billions of dollars a year at Facebook (and Google, and Twitter) with not only no returns but also no ability to measure that lack of returns. It’s just such a ridiculous viewpoint to hold.

dingo_bat 9y ago

I wonder where we'd be today if all this effort was focused on something like automatic cars. Instead of spam.

ISL 9y ago
Spam, spam, spam, spam, cars, spam, and spam. There's not too much spam in it.
sebleon 9y ago
"The best minds of my generation are thinking about how to make people click ads" - original FB data scientist
- klokoman 9y ago
  Because it is one of the few sectors where you can be a little creative and not obey the rules set by corrupted bureaucrats decades ago
  - chii 9y ago
    And instead follow rules set by investors or corporate vested interests.
CalRobert 9y ago
Good question. I graduated college and desperately wanted to work on renewable energy research. After scads of rejections I quit ignoring the expressions of interest in my programming abilities. I still wish I were doing something that actually bettered the world, but I have bills to pay. Then again, maybe ensuring people graduate in debt is a great way to ensure we as a society do what folks with cash want us to instead of what we feel we ought to be doing.