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Tesla's head of battery engineering exits
- draw_down 9y agoIt really seems like they are struggling lately. Hope they turn things around
- jaimex2 9y agoSounds like production hell.
- dogruck 9y agoLet’s be real — he was probably asked to leave.
- r00fus 9y agoReal question is why.
- ChuckMcM 9y agoThe implication being of course that as the head of the division responsible for making batteries, he took the fall for not enough batteries available to sell product. What is interesting about that implication though is that while to me and others it seems "clearly" implied, there isn't any one thing you would point to that says it is what it is. I have seen so many cases where the message the company sent about somebody leaving was really different that I no longer believe anything except what the person says.
- rohit2412 9y agoDoes anybody else find it incredibly weird? They were able to manufacture batteries for 50k+ Model S/X. But couldn't scale the same batteries for Model 3?
- slfnflctd 9y agoThe Model 3 batteries are a somewhat different form factor from what Tesla has used in the past ('18650' are the old ones, '2170' the new), and might have slightly different chemistry as well. Here's one source on it, with a few more details: https://electrek.co/2017/08/24/tesla-model-3-exclusive-battery-pack-architecture/ https://electrek.co/2017/08/24/tesla-model-3-exclusive-batte...
- jbob2000 9y ago> he is launching a battery and powertrain startup in California I'm betting Tesla couldn't pay him enough and he's starting his own shop to sell to the other major auto manufacturers.
- samstave 9y agoPlus didn’t Tesla state that all their patents were open source, so there is no IP precluding him from doing such...
- katastic 9y agoHow about a non-compete agreement?
- apendleton 9y agoAren't they invalid in California?
- apendleton 9y agoThere might also be trade secrets he'd be precluded from disclosing by an NDA. (No idea if there actually are, but patents wouldn't be the only potential barrier.)
- foota 9y agoTesla likely has trade secrets that they do not release? And I believe using such in a new company would not be legal (ianal).
- vkou 9y agoWithout Tesla publishing a license that explicitly specifies this, you'd be insane to use Tesla's patents in your own product. That's the reason why nobody in the auto industry has taken them up on it. It's not a demonstration of good faith - it was a publicity stunt.
- beat 9y agoI doubt it's for the money. I'm sure he made a pretty penny on his stock options, and stood to make more. But he could get yelled at by Elon Musk every day, or he could walk into any VC in Silicon Valley, drop his own name, and have a fat stack of VC cash to gamble on something of his own design.
- iMuzz 9y ago> According to Wagner’s LinkedIn page, he is launching a battery and powertrain startup in California. It seems like he left to start his own company?
- elihu 9y agoThat's conjecture. There are many reasons why a person might leave a company, and not all of them are because the person is unhappy with the company or the company is unhappy with the person. I'd rather we didn't jump to conclusions in the absence of evidence.
- dogruck 9y agoYou are correct that it’s conjecture. I did include the weasel word “probably.” I certainly do not have inside info. But, in the real world, if he were interviewing for a new job, the prospective employer would surely have this conversation: Q: So, why did you leave Tesla? A: Oh, just felt like it was time to go. Wanted to start my own thing. Q: Ok. But, didn’t your departure coincide with the announcement that the Model 3’s primary production bottleneck was with assembly of the battery pack? A: Yes, but that was just a coincidence. I had been talking about leaving for a while. Q: Ok. Would you mind if we talked with 3 references from Tesla? Perhaps your direct manager, a peer, and one of your subordinates? A: Sure.....
- dgritsko 9y agoInteresting, given last week's reports of Model 3 production being bottlenecked due to battery supply issues. Is his departure the result of him being held responsible for these issues? Or did he decide to leave of his own accord, and if so, why? Either way, I'd like to hear some more details.
- ballenf 9y agoIf his pay was in any way tied to productivity, he was probably taking a big hit. Regardless of fault.
- supernovae 9y agoDidn't Toyota just announce their new battery tech due in 2022? Solid state batteries with short/fast recharge time? Maybe this engineer didn't have anything up his sleeve to get there before toyota
- nihonde 9y agoJapanese automakers are circling their wagons. Toyota, Mazda, and Denso are collaborating in a JV, with Suzuki expected to join. Toyota leadership is demanding longer range and faster charging batteries from the alliance engineers. The important markets in play are US, China, and South Asia (including India).
- bgarbiak 9y agoMazda and other partners won't get solid state batteries from Toyota. They cooperate on a shared platform for EVs, not on the batteries tech. Source: http://www.thedrive.com/tech/15514/toyota-wont-share-solid-state-batteries-with-tech-partner-mazda http://www.thedrive.com/tech/15514/toyota-wont-share-solid-s...
- nihonde 9y agoYou're right. I wonder how the alliance partners will handle charging stations. I know from living in Japan that Nissan chargers are at nearly every dealership lot, and many parking garages have charging areas.
- kirykl 9y agoToyota is heavily invested in lithium mining, their solid state claim isn’t their only game
- lovemenot 9y agoAre you implying that Toyota's solid state battery will not be lithium based? Dyson's (sakti3) solid state battery certainly is.
- avar 9y ago> [...] joined the company in January 2013, > was involved in developing technology > for all of Tesla's cars [according to > his LinkedIn profile] He joined after the Roadster went out of production, which had a proprietary Tesla powertrain, so this doesn't seem like an accurate summary, the Model S was also introduced half a year before he started in mid-2012.
- greglindahl 9y agoThe Roadster had the 2.0 update after he joined.
- djrogers 9y ago3.0 - 2.0 was much earlier.
- return0 9y agoWas he discharged?
- fsargent 9y agoI see what you did there.
- pwinnski 9y agoIt's hard not to see this as bad for Tesla. The one thing Tesla supporters have pointed to more than anything is that Tesla had a large head-start in battery tech over all of the competitors. So Chevy is shipping many more Bolts than Tesla is shipping all models combined, but Tesla's headstart in battery tech and manufacturing would keep them a contender. Now their head of battery tech is gone and they've missed model 3 targets by a very wide margin due to problems with batteries. I'm not sure how reliable their lead in batteries is right now. There's still that supercharger network, though. I suspect we'll be hearing more about that now that other points in Tesla's favor are dwindling.
- shaneos 9y agoDo you have a reference for the statement that Chevy is selling more Bolts than all Teslas combined? This sounds farfetched.
- Klinky 9y agoAlso supposedly Chevy is losing money on the Bolt.
- latj 9y agoLets play a game. How much would you have to be paid to drive a Chevy Bolt? I would probably do it for 50% of the cost of the thing.
- AYBABTME 9y agoAs much as I'm into Tesla, a friend of mine has a Bolt and they're way fun to drive, for a Chevy and that kind of car. They accelerate pretty well. Nowhere near what I'd expect of a Tesla, but still pretty torque-ish.
- Avshalom 9y agoThe advantage of electric engines, any electric engine, over ICE is that something like 99% of the maximum torque is available from 0rpm to redline.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- maxander 9y agoSo either he was "asked to leave" (fired) for somehow being responsible for the battery issue that was the rate-limiting factor for Model 3 production, OR he was being leaned on so hard by management to fix the problem that he left for work-life-balance reasons (ragequit.) Either way, he gets to put in his expertise to found a new company in one of the hottest technologies there is in 2017, probably becoming rich by selling Tesla's own upgraded tech back to it, as well as to everyone else in the electric car race. All while not having Elon Musk looming over his shoulder. Not bad!
- leggomylibro 9y agoIt sounds like the battery issues aren't even completely within Tesla's control - you try sourcing that much lithium! ...seriously, I'm sorta worried about our continued access to enough lithium for all this electric technology that's rapidly emerging. Counterarguments?
- Avshalom 9y agoThere's no shortage of lithium, just lithium at the current price point. Like with oilsand it should get to a sufficient price to encourage investment in extraction technology and then price will drop.
- mtgx 9y agoYes, the issue is being overblown. It's the "we're reaching peak oil" debate of 30 years ago. We're still nowhere near peak oil (supply).
- SubiculumCode 9y agoIf lithium prices get too high, then SpaceX will have a financial incentive to get space-based lithium mining from asteroids in production, probably using Boring tech. :)
- leggomylibro 9y agoThat's a good point...it's not like it's a super heavy metal that only gets born in the bellies of colliding neutron stars or something.
- djtriptych 9y agoI've been describing Tesla as a "battery company" for a while now; it's essential for their solar roof and electric car businesses. This makes me nervous as an investor..
- chmaynard 9y agoDoes that mean you weren't nervous before now? I got nervous a long time ago. I sold my modest investment in Tesla and got my Model 3 pre-order deposit back. I sleep much better now..
- agumonkey 9y agoHave you heard the conf call ? Musk says half of the Model 3 battery assembly zones (2 out of 4) in the factory were badly designed, so they had to redo them from scratch. I don't think it entails anything for their batteries in general, more "were new at the automated robotic assembly thing".
- agumonkey 9y agoSome articles reported the Model 3 delays were about the Fremont car assembly plant, but this hints at the Gigafactory being the bottleneck. If both are stuck/dead it's gonna smell bad. I wish Musk finds the help needed to at least "land" the project as smooth as his rockets.
- itengelhardt 9y agoIn the investors call last week Tesla stated that the problem is at the Gigafactory with battery production. Here's a link to a summary of conference call: https://www.reddit.com/r/RealTesla/comments/7ao4m0/conference_call_confirms_teslas_model_3_faces/ https://www.reddit.com/r/RealTesla/comments/7ao4m0/conferenc... That forum is quite anti-Tesla (as opposed to /r/teslamotors). The whole Tesla thing is quite controversial - lots of haters, lots of fanboys. Best advice I can give you: Read what both sides have to say and weigh the arguments. Then just stick with the truth you've always believed in - it's what everyone does in 2017 ;-)
- agumonkey 9y agoI just read the story of William Browder (putin's nonfriend) that's indeed what I ended up doing. Thanks a lot for the report, I guess I misinterpreted what article said about which factory the problems were happening.
- makomk 9y agoYou're not wrong about that - there were news reports that Tesla was having serious issues with their car assembly line too (not least that parts of it weren't even there yet, and the parts that were there weren't working properly and would likely be hell to fix due to Tesla skipping a bunch of the normal steps in having such equipment designed and manufactured).
- agumonkey 9y agoI've read that article, Musk choose to rush things to "save time" at the risk of "not saving time".
- PascLeRasc 9y agoI'm graduating with my BS in EE next month and I've been applying to lots of places working on battery technology since it's incredibly interesting to me, but I have no idea how anyone becomes a "specialist" in that field. Everything I've learned has been outside of class, and there aren't any offered in my department or in Materials Science or Chemistry, and a few of my friends at top-tier schools like CMU and Purdue have said the same thing. It seems so critical for everything from energy grids during natural disasters to environmentally friendly material sourcing/disposal. I hope schools start focusing on it.
- dsfyu404ed 9y ago>I hope schools start focusing on it. Be careful what you wish for. Right now you stand to make a lot of money. If schools start cranking out undergrads who know what you know you won't be very valuable. edit: looks like I struck a nerve.
- PascLeRasc 9y ago1) I know nothing and 2) that's not the worst thing in the world if we have genius engineers making batteries better.
- swagasaurus-rex 9y agoThis advice isn't useful because you don't know the market conditions of the future. It's like saying in 1992 "Don't become a programmer, we just had an economic bust, it's overvalued"
- dsfyu404ed 9y agoIt's not advice nor does it depend on the market conditions in the future. Boom or bust it's better to have a skill set that is in higher demand than supply.
- DigitalJack 9y agoI’m an EE doing asic design. Everything I do for a living I learned outside of school. Aside from the basics like reading/maths etc.
- free_everybody 9y agoCan anyone explain what the rules are regarding the head of battery engineering leaving Tesla to make similar batteries on his own? Wouldn't it be IP theft if he tried copying the tech he developed at Tesla?
- wand3r 9y agonot if he copies all their designs but intends to sell his fake startup to a competitor shortly after a few announcements
- free_everybody 9y agoHaha, what could possibly go wrong?
- mikeryan 9y agoDoes Tesla use European style "Director" designations for VP/Senior Execs? For Tesla I'd be surprised if the "Head of Battery Engineering" was only a "Director" level position in US style corporate ladders?
- british_india 9y agoAmazing, the article still contains a grammatical mistake. Terrible quality on the part of the reporter and editor.
- erikb 9y agoLet's just appreciate this rare piece of news. All the information presented, without interpretation, no fuss or ads around the post (maybe due to adblocker, don't know). Clean and simple. This is way, waaay, too rare.