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I've been running LineageOS on my OnePlus 3 for a few weeks now, since the whole data collection furore. It's been absolutely fantastic and I'd wholeheartedly r

I've been running LineageOS on my OnePlus 3 for a few weeks now, since the whole data collection furore. It's been absolutely fantastic and I'd wholeheartedly recommend it to anyone. Battery life has been much better and I love all the extra features in their camera app, for instance. I'm not so sure about this though. It seems like they've disabled some very important security features. Their justification of "Lineage obviously hate freedom and are in bed with Google" doesn't sit right with me. Also there seem to be a lot of hoops to jump through just to re-enable the Play Store, which I'd consider basic functionality for any Android device. Still, the pursuit of more freedom is a noble goal and I wish them all the best.

orf 9y ago
Can you run banking applications (or any that do root detection) on LineageOS? And does the dash charger work as expected with the OnePlus?
- keeperofdakeys 9y ago
  LineageOS no longer comes with root installed, you have to install an extra zip file while flashing to enable it - https://download.lineageos.org/extras https://download.lineageos.org/extras IIRC some root detection mechanisms still check for an unlocked bootloader.
  - petecox 9y ago
    And from the same web page there's an uninstall script to un-root the phone. This is handy if you only need root occasionally, e.g. Titanium Backup, and don't mind messing about in TWRP.
- rightos 9y ago
  There's no root builtin, use Magisk with the Hide feature to prevent it from being detected by banking apps and such - even apps using the rather nasty SafetyNet work. With that said, I highly question why any banking app would check root, mine doesn't and it seems to me like even if it did I could still use their website on my phone while rooted or my Windows machine with no sandboxing whatsoever. Requiring it just for the app seems pretty damn pointless.
  - gant 9y ago
    A lot of banking apps store cached transaction data and authentication tokens on the "protected" (not accessable to non-root from other apps) part of the data partition. If you run without encryption or with either unlocked bootloader or TWRP installed, someone could just pull that from a device in recovery mode. That's also why unlocking the bootloader wipes your data partition usually.
    - h4waii 9y ago
      This should be OR. If you have FDE enabled, then the data is encrypted and it doesn't matter if your bootloader is unlocked or you have a custom recovery installed -- all caveats about the trustworthiness of the crypto and strength of your key still apply.
    - kuschku 9y ago
      And that matters how? At least all German banks have to have an open API for transactions, and I can run my transactions with curl if I wanted to. A banking app shouldn't care about how I run it, otherwise I'll just throw it out and use one of the open apps for HBCI.
  - compuguy 9y ago
    Depends. I have a phone with LineageOS installed, and it only passes SafetyNet Basic Integrity. That's a nogo for Netflix or Android pay.
PMan74 9y ago
> Battery life has been much better I'm guessing this is a gut feeling as opposed to any empirical data? Either way I'm curious as to why this would be the case. Unless I misunderstand the kernel is identical between LineageOS & whatever stock OS was on the device. And it's the kernel that presumably impacts most on battery consumption. I installed LineageOS on an old Nexus 5. The stock OS on the Nexus is already pretty clean so I can't say I noticed a massive difference (although I didn't spend much time on it)
- SifJar 9y ago
  Google services tend to make use of wakelocks a lot I believe (I think the nlp [network location provider] service in particular), so replacing these could lead to better battery life if the replacements use less wakelocks etc. EDIT: Realised parent comment was about regular LineageOS, not the microG fork, never mind
- omgmog 9y ago
  I'm also in the same boat as SmellyGeekBoy, and can attest the same. With the Oneplus rom I saw maybe 1.5 days of battery, with Lineage I often see 2-3 days. This is completely anecdotal however, and it's likely that the reduced battery is down to having installed different/fewer apps on Lineage.
- jbg_ 9y ago
  I actually tested this a little on a Nexus 5X a while back. With a clean install of a LineageOS build manually patched to include microG (before I knew about this fork), I unplugged it from the charger at 100% and left it for 8 hours without using it, at which point the battery read 98%. The same device with a clean install of stock Android from Google read 87% after 8 hours of standby after a full charge. In both cases it had good LTE signal and had no modifications from a clean install other than signing into a Google account.
  - _jal 9y ago
    It is a bit entertaining to think of Google's surveillance quantified via electricity - we can measure their intrusiveness in mAh.
jbg_ 9y ago
Just to provide some context for the "very important security feature" that is disabled. The change adds a permission that allows (after explicit whitelisting by the user) an app to impersonate another app. Specifically, it allows microG apps (which are open-source and auditable) to impersonate Google Play Services apps (which are closed-source and not auditable) and thus provide their functionality.
- kasey_junk 9y ago
  Minor nitpick. Closed source software is of course audit-able. Being able to audit binaries is table stakes to even call someone an auditor. There may be many valid reasons to prefer open source software but security audits aren’t one of them.
  - Sir_Cmpwn 9y ago
    I'm gonna take it on good faith that you're not a troll... Open source software is much easier to audit than closed source software. People have a finite amount of time to do things like audit their software.
    - fabrice_d 9y ago
      But auditing the source is only useful if you can do reproducible builds to be sure you run the audited source. This is rarely the case unfortunately, and for most of open source prebuilt software you use, you rely on trust and not on audit.
      - Sir_Cmpwn 9y ago
        That's not true. You could always, you know, run the version you compiled yourself.
        kasey_junk 9y ago
        We’ve known for 30 years that’s not enough (depending on your risk characteristics). Trusting trust is one of the seminal talks in software.
amelius 9y ago
Sounds good, but I really need some apps that only run on Android, e.g. for travel, banking, and local TV. So I hope they will at one point support sandboxed Android apps.
- edent 9y ago
  All the banking and TV apps I've used on Lineage have worked fine. They don't complain about it not being an "official" version of Android. Some won't work if the device is rooted. That's why the latest version of Lineage doesn't come with root.
therealmarv 9y ago
you also have disabled important security features. Or can you encrypt your LineageOS device and update it without problems finally?
- computerfriend 9y ago
  I have an encrypted LineageOS device and can update it just fine.
- Espionage724 9y ago
  You can definitely encrypt your LOS device and update it (manual or OTA) just fine. I have a Nexus 6 and have been doing it for months now, both with official builds and a custom build I was doing.
- zanny 9y ago
  I have an encrypted S5 with LoS. I believe autoupdate just doesn't work on it with TWRP period, but it might be because of the encryption. Either way, I just download updates once a month and sideload them.
  - therealmarv 9y ago
    ah maybe this is was my issue, I was only trying with TWRP and it always failed (I tried last time May this year).
nextos 9y ago
I also recommend it. And I'm a bit sad CopperheadOS, which was an excellent more secure alternative (they had teamed up with The Guardian Project and F-Droid [1]) contains now non-open source code of their own [2]. [1] https://guardianproject.info/2016/03/28/copperhead-guardian-project-and-f-droid-partner-to-build-open-verifiably-secure-mobile-ecosystem/ https://guardianproject.info/2016/03/28/copperhead-guardian-... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CopperheadOS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CopperheadOS
- strcat 9y ago
  All of the CopperheadOS source code is still published and can be modified / redistributed. It's not Free Software anymore since that wasn't supported by the community while at the same time it was exploited by (competing) companies without giving back. The choice was either having a working business model by requiring payment for commercial use or ending CopperheadOS.
  - nextos 9y ago
    I know, and I totally understand the situation and your choice. How is the collaboration with The Guardian Project and F-Droid announced in [1] going? Don't you think Copperhead might become a really niche choice given how expensive Pixels (vs Nexus) are? [1] https://guardianproject.info/2016/03/28/copperhead-guardian-project-and-f-droid-partner-to-build-open-verifiably-secure-mobile-ecosystem/ https://guardianproject.info/2016/03/28/copperhead-guardian-...
Espionage724 9y ago
They didn't really disable anything. Signature spoofing in the past and now can only be enabled on a per-app basis by the user. So the ROM can have signature spoofing support, and the user can have 20 malicious apps installed; none of those 20 apps can spoof signatures unless the user allows it. It's basically just another permission. With that said though; if a user blindly-enables the permission on any app that asks, that's a pretty big security issue. But I'd rather have the choice than accommodate uninformed users...
johnnywishbone 9y ago
So it allows microG apps which by their very nature are open-source to pretend they're Google Play apps?

orf 9y ago

Can you run banking applications (or any that do root detection) on LineageOS? And does the dash charger work as expected with the OnePlus?

keeperofdakeys 9y ago
LineageOS no longer comes with root installed, you have to install an extra zip file while flashing to enable it - https://download.lineageos.org/extras https://download.lineageos.org/extras IIRC some root detection mechanisms still check for an unlocked bootloader.
- petecox 9y ago
  And from the same web page there's an uninstall script to un-root the phone. This is handy if you only need root occasionally, e.g. Titanium Backup, and don't mind messing about in TWRP.
rightos 9y ago
There's no root builtin, use Magisk with the Hide feature to prevent it from being detected by banking apps and such - even apps using the rather nasty SafetyNet work. With that said, I highly question why any banking app would check root, mine doesn't and it seems to me like even if it did I could still use their website on my phone while rooted or my Windows machine with no sandboxing whatsoever. Requiring it just for the app seems pretty damn pointless.
- gant 9y ago
  A lot of banking apps store cached transaction data and authentication tokens on the "protected" (not accessable to non-root from other apps) part of the data partition. If you run without encryption or with either unlocked bootloader or TWRP installed, someone could just pull that from a device in recovery mode. That's also why unlocking the bootloader wipes your data partition usually.
  - h4waii 9y ago
    This should be OR. If you have FDE enabled, then the data is encrypted and it doesn't matter if your bootloader is unlocked or you have a custom recovery installed -- all caveats about the trustworthiness of the crypto and strength of your key still apply.
  - kuschku 9y ago
    And that matters how? At least all German banks have to have an open API for transactions, and I can run my transactions with curl if I wanted to. A banking app shouldn't care about how I run it, otherwise I'll just throw it out and use one of the open apps for HBCI.
- compuguy 9y ago
  Depends. I have a phone with LineageOS installed, and it only passes SafetyNet Basic Integrity. That's a nogo for Netflix or Android pay.

PMan74 9y ago

> Battery life has been much better I'm guessing this is a gut feeling as opposed to any empirical data? Either way I'm curious as to why this would be the case. Unless I misunderstand the kernel is identical between LineageOS & whatever stock OS was on the device. And it's the kernel that presumably impacts most on battery consumption. I installed LineageOS on an old Nexus 5. The stock OS on the Nexus is already pretty clean so I can't say I noticed a massive difference (although I didn't spend much time on it)

SifJar 9y ago
Google services tend to make use of wakelocks a lot I believe (I think the nlp [network location provider] service in particular), so replacing these could lead to better battery life if the replacements use less wakelocks etc. EDIT: Realised parent comment was about regular LineageOS, not the microG fork, never mind
omgmog 9y ago
I'm also in the same boat as SmellyGeekBoy, and can attest the same. With the Oneplus rom I saw maybe 1.5 days of battery, with Lineage I often see 2-3 days. This is completely anecdotal however, and it's likely that the reduced battery is down to having installed different/fewer apps on Lineage.
jbg_ 9y ago
I actually tested this a little on a Nexus 5X a while back. With a clean install of a LineageOS build manually patched to include microG (before I knew about this fork), I unplugged it from the charger at 100% and left it for 8 hours without using it, at which point the battery read 98%. The same device with a clean install of stock Android from Google read 87% after 8 hours of standby after a full charge. In both cases it had good LTE signal and had no modifications from a clean install other than signing into a Google account.
- _jal 9y ago
  It is a bit entertaining to think of Google's surveillance quantified via electricity - we can measure their intrusiveness in mAh.

jbg_ 9y ago

Just to provide some context for the "very important security feature" that is disabled. The change adds a permission that allows (after explicit whitelisting by the user) an app to impersonate another app. Specifically, it allows microG apps (which are open-source and auditable) to impersonate Google Play Services apps (which are closed-source and not auditable) and thus provide their functionality.

kasey_junk 9y ago
Minor nitpick. Closed source software is of course audit-able. Being able to audit binaries is table stakes to even call someone an auditor. There may be many valid reasons to prefer open source software but security audits aren’t one of them.
- Sir_Cmpwn 9y ago
  I'm gonna take it on good faith that you're not a troll... Open source software is much easier to audit than closed source software. People have a finite amount of time to do things like audit their software.
  - fabrice_d 9y ago
    But auditing the source is only useful if you can do reproducible builds to be sure you run the audited source. This is rarely the case unfortunately, and for most of open source prebuilt software you use, you rely on trust and not on audit.
    - Sir_Cmpwn 9y ago
      That's not true. You could always, you know, run the version you compiled yourself.
      - kasey_junk 9y ago
        We’ve known for 30 years that’s not enough (depending on your risk characteristics). Trusting trust is one of the seminal talks in software.

amelius 9y ago

Sounds good, but I really need some apps that only run on Android, e.g. for travel, banking, and local TV. So I hope they will at one point support sandboxed Android apps.

edent 9y ago
All the banking and TV apps I've used on Lineage have worked fine. They don't complain about it not being an "official" version of Android. Some won't work if the device is rooted. That's why the latest version of Lineage doesn't come with root.

therealmarv 9y ago

you also have disabled important security features. Or can you encrypt your LineageOS device and update it without problems finally?

computerfriend 9y ago
I have an encrypted LineageOS device and can update it just fine.
Espionage724 9y ago
You can definitely encrypt your LOS device and update it (manual or OTA) just fine. I have a Nexus 6 and have been doing it for months now, both with official builds and a custom build I was doing.
zanny 9y ago
I have an encrypted S5 with LoS. I believe autoupdate just doesn't work on it with TWRP period, but it might be because of the encryption. Either way, I just download updates once a month and sideload them.
- therealmarv 9y ago
  ah maybe this is was my issue, I was only trying with TWRP and it always failed (I tried last time May this year).

nextos 9y ago

I also recommend it. And I'm a bit sad CopperheadOS, which was an excellent more secure alternative (they had teamed up with The Guardian Project and F-Droid [1]) contains now non-open source code of their own [2]. [1] https://guardianproject.info/2016/03/28/copperhead-guardian-project-and-f-droid-partner-to-build-open-verifiably-secure-mobile-ecosystem/ https://guardianproject.info/2016/03/28/copperhead-guardian-... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CopperheadOS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CopperheadOS

strcat 9y ago
All of the CopperheadOS source code is still published and can be modified / redistributed. It's not Free Software anymore since that wasn't supported by the community while at the same time it was exploited by (competing) companies without giving back. The choice was either having a working business model by requiring payment for commercial use or ending CopperheadOS.
- nextos 9y ago
  I know, and I totally understand the situation and your choice. How is the collaboration with The Guardian Project and F-Droid announced in [1] going? Don't you think Copperhead might become a really niche choice given how expensive Pixels (vs Nexus) are? [1] https://guardianproject.info/2016/03/28/copperhead-guardian-project-and-f-droid-partner-to-build-open-verifiably-secure-mobile-ecosystem/ https://guardianproject.info/2016/03/28/copperhead-guardian-...

Espionage724 9y ago

They didn't really disable anything. Signature spoofing in the past and now can only be enabled on a per-app basis by the user. So the ROM can have signature spoofing support, and the user can have 20 malicious apps installed; none of those 20 apps can spoof signatures unless the user allows it. It's basically just another permission. With that said though; if a user blindly-enables the permission on any app that asks, that's a pretty big security issue. But I'd rather have the choice than accommodate uninformed users...

johnnywishbone 9y ago

So it allows microG apps which by their very nature are open-source to pretend they're Google Play apps?