4 ms·

Monsanto claims they've solved the problem independent weed scientists are talking about, but won't show their work. So do we believe that Monsanto is right abo

Monsanto claims they've solved the problem independent weed scientists are talking about, but won't show their work. So do we believe that Monsanto is right about their multi-billion dollar strategy and won't show their work for mysterious reasons, or do we believe that they're lying to protect their multi-billion dollar strategy and won't show their work for the obvious reason that it doesn't exist? I'll be interested to see how HN responds to this. On the one hand, by and large we're probably pretty friendly to the sort of hacking Monsanto wants to do. Not that we're all on board with GMO crops, but I'd say we collectively lean that way. On the other probably stronger hand, independent scientists should win out over corporations with this crowd. I mean, there's an awful lot of corporate love here, but science trumps all, right? Then there are the paid shills, and those who show up to remind us all that there are the paid shills.

austincheney 9y ago
> I'll be interested to see how HN responds to this. Why? This has no bearing on the validity or existence of claimed Monsanto research.
- moomin 9y ago
  It has everything to do with politics, though. And that’s where this ultimately plays out.
  - austincheney 9y ago
    Umm, no. Perhaps this is important to people who read news and need entertainment, but otherwise it is utterly relevant. In an eventual lawsuit evidence is far more important than hurt feelings.
ghostbrainalpha 9y ago
I like how you break things down. But serious question, do you get accused of "overthinking it" a lot?
- pwinnski 9y ago
  Mostly by myself, but yes, definitely.
moomin 9y ago
My take: there’s no GM story here. No-one’s saying the GM crops don’t work, no-one’s even saying they have negative externalities. Instead, we’ve got a lousy product being sold by a large multinational that’s trying to suppress the evidence of the awfulness of its product. So yeah, they deserve to be sued into the ground, but it doesn’t move the needle one jot on what I think about GM in general.
- linuskendall 9y ago
  Yet, GMO as a technology is in many ways inherently associated with an agricultural system dominated by large multinational actors who excert a great deal of power. This is for me the greatest problem with GMO - not any possible health implications (for which there is scant negative evidence). Greater reliance on seed that can't be reproduced locally and on highly specialised chemicals and packages of practice is a huge threat to many farmers (especially where I work - India).
- sambull 9y ago
  I believe it is a GM story. Monsanto's GM is to allow chemicals like dicambra, and glyphosate to be sprayed on these crops, their modifications make them resistant. So, the GM application is mainly pesticide resistance, and the subsequent shitty pesticides they use which kill everything that hasn't been modified. The use of these pesticides is because they are growing GM crops.
  - zymhan 9y ago
    Yes, but the issue is not the GM crops causing issues, but the pesticide they are engineered to survive. If people just grew the GM crops, there wouldn't be a problem, but it's the use of the accompanying pesticide that is destroying innocent crops.
    - mcguire 9y ago
      That's the externality. If they didn't use the herbicide, they wouldn't want the GM crops.
  - 9y ago
beached_whale 9y ago
I wonder if the farmers are cheeping out and using the new stuff or the old illegal stuff also. When they got approval wouldn't they have had to submit the test plot data and methods?
- mcguire 9y ago
  They released the resistant crop seeds before the released the modified herbicide. Then, they did not allow independent testing of the modified herbicide before making it commercially available.
Jesus_Jones 9y ago
Can anyone even remember a case where a large corporation has a big problem and they have secret evidence they won't provide actually does exonerate them?y 6 It must have happened at least a few times in history, but just like Windows Vista,
sitkack 9y ago
We should trust Monsanto, they have a long term vested interest in keeping those farmers in business.
- imtringued 9y ago
  The farmers that are in trouble are those who are not using monsanto crops.

austincheney 9y ago

> I'll be interested to see how HN responds to this. Why? This has no bearing on the validity or existence of claimed Monsanto research.

moomin 9y ago
It has everything to do with politics, though. And that’s where this ultimately plays out.
- austincheney 9y ago
  Umm, no. Perhaps this is important to people who read news and need entertainment, but otherwise it is utterly relevant. In an eventual lawsuit evidence is far more important than hurt feelings.

ghostbrainalpha 9y ago

I like how you break things down. But serious question, do you get accused of "overthinking it" a lot?

pwinnski 9y ago
Mostly by myself, but yes, definitely.

moomin 9y ago

My take: there’s no GM story here. No-one’s saying the GM crops don’t work, no-one’s even saying they have negative externalities. Instead, we’ve got a lousy product being sold by a large multinational that’s trying to suppress the evidence of the awfulness of its product. So yeah, they deserve to be sued into the ground, but it doesn’t move the needle one jot on what I think about GM in general.

linuskendall 9y ago
Yet, GMO as a technology is in many ways inherently associated with an agricultural system dominated by large multinational actors who excert a great deal of power. This is for me the greatest problem with GMO - not any possible health implications (for which there is scant negative evidence). Greater reliance on seed that can't be reproduced locally and on highly specialised chemicals and packages of practice is a huge threat to many farmers (especially where I work - India).
sambull 9y ago
I believe it is a GM story. Monsanto's GM is to allow chemicals like dicambra, and glyphosate to be sprayed on these crops, their modifications make them resistant. So, the GM application is mainly pesticide resistance, and the subsequent shitty pesticides they use which kill everything that hasn't been modified. The use of these pesticides is because they are growing GM crops.
- zymhan 9y ago
  Yes, but the issue is not the GM crops causing issues, but the pesticide they are engineered to survive. If people just grew the GM crops, there wouldn't be a problem, but it's the use of the accompanying pesticide that is destroying innocent crops.
  - mcguire 9y ago
    That's the externality. If they didn't use the herbicide, they wouldn't want the GM crops.
- 9y ago

beached_whale 9y ago

I wonder if the farmers are cheeping out and using the new stuff or the old illegal stuff also. When they got approval wouldn't they have had to submit the test plot data and methods?

mcguire 9y ago
They released the resistant crop seeds before the released the modified herbicide. Then, they did not allow independent testing of the modified herbicide before making it commercially available.

Jesus_Jones 9y ago

Can anyone even remember a case where a large corporation has a big problem and they have secret evidence they won't provide actually does exonerate them?y 6 It must have happened at least a few times in history, but just like Windows Vista,

sitkack 9y ago

We should trust Monsanto, they have a long term vested interest in keeping those farmers in business.

imtringued 9y ago
The farmers that are in trouble are those who are not using monsanto crops.