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Vitamin B6 and B12 Supplements Appear to Cause Cancer in Men
- jph 9y agoFull text of the published study: http://ascopubs.org/doi/full/10.1200/JCO.2017.72.7735 http://ascopubs.org/doi/full/10.1200/JCO.2017.72.7735 Long-Term, Supplemental, One-Carbon Metabolism–Related Vitamin B Use in Relation to Lung Cancer Risk in the Vitamins and Lifestyle (VITAL) Cohort
- Retric 9y agoIMO, Likely just statistical noise, but clearly worth further study. Link only found among Men. 'Results from previous studies of an association of B vitamins with lung cancer risk are inconsistent.'
- PerryCox 9y agoI have a feeling that a lot of these supplements are doing more harm than good. I really wish the FDA would step in and regulate the vitamin market the same way they do with normal medicine like Tylenol, etc.
- latch 9y agoApril 22, 1976, Cogress passed an act prohibiting the FDA from doing just this and in 1996 additional legislation resulted in vitamins being classified as food, not drugs. The FDA has wanted to do something about this for a long time. They clearly see supplements as dangerous (especially things like 6000% RDA).
- mrfusion 9y agoWhy stop there though. I think we should require a prescription. You shouldn’t be putting stuff into your body without medical supervision. I’d even consider it for Foods heavy in certain vitamins. Pineapples have a mega load of vitamin c. Put those behind the counter as well. Why let people risk their health.
- miguelrochefort 9y ago/s
- flarg 9y agoSarcasm aside, I did read that over consumption of kale results in accumulation of heavy metals
- ISKthrow 9y agoAnd farts...
- acuozzo 9y ago> You shouldn’t be putting stuff into your body without medical supervision. Neither you nor the government should be telling me what I can put in my body. > Why let people risk their health. Because it's their health to risk, not yours.
- 13years 9y agoThere is little evidence that "a lot of supplements" are doing more harm than good. That is speculation. If you search pubmed there are thousands of studies looking at potential benefits. However, if you are going to regulate based on real evidence of harm, then you would do the same for fast foods. There we have substantially more evidence of harm than we currently have with supplements. Or we could decide to live in a free country and stop criminalizing what people decide to put into their bodies of their own free will. We are trending to free access to marijuana, I would find it ironic to then start restricting supplements.
- bhandziuk 9y agoseems very different from fast food in that with that you at least get a meal out of it however low quality it may be. But with supplements they are sometimes doing the exact opposite of what they're branded to do. Expecting greater health and getting cancer is different from being hungry and getting heart disease.
- dec0dedab0de 9y agoI think it would be better of the goverment just let anyone eat or take anything they want. Though they should fund extensive research into food, vitamins, home remedies, etc. and publish them in easy to understand guides and warnings. This could empower the people to protect themself.
- jcranmer 9y agoThe drug industry is actually fairly close to that model: 1. You can't advertise any benefit without having a clinical trial (funded by the company) showing that benefit. 2. A strict (every 6 months) inspection of manufacturing facilities. 3. You're required to list the ingredients, and the inspections make sure you're using them. 4. All known side effects are required (found during aforementioned clinical trials) to be listed. By contrast, the FDA is specifically prohibited from applying these regulations to the supplement industry. Unsurprisingly, many studies have found that the companies involved don't even bother to put the active ingredients in the pills.
- amelius 9y agoBigPharma would love this.
- saurik 9y agoAs far as I understand, it is well documented that smoking correlates with B12 deficiency, and so many smokers take this vitamin as a supplement to make themselves feel better about their smoking habits. This study then showed, not just that people got cancer, but they got lung cancer. This study was not a randomized trial that can show causation: it was a cohort study, where they ask a bunch of questions about peoples' past or ongoing behavior and then look for correlations from which you can try to guess at potential causes. In a cohort study, there are attempts to predict confounding variables and "control" for them, but this involves essentially assuming the result and backing out the math, and assumes you trust that the participant is giving you correct data anyway. A really fun confounding variable you get in these kinds of studies is that people who even bother to do your study correctly are also people who probably listen to their doctor and brush their teeth and wear their seatbelts and generally lead a safer life. (I am forgetting the name of this, but it is something like "compliance effect"?) Further, if you have participants who don't just answer poorly but actively lie in ways that are correlated with the variables you care about (maybe "another way I make myself feel better about my smoking habit is to pretend I smoke half as much as I do or also smoke cigars and not count them"), you are effectively going to have no hope of "controlling" for that in the way you can with a blinded randomized controlled trial. Given this, I read this and only think "that's an interesting hypothesis that is now worth digging into with real science to figure out what is going on", not "OK, everyone should stop taking B12 supplements if they don't want to end up randomly getting lung cancer"... that is just way too specific and too predictable of a cancer to be associated with this particular supplement.
- bbarn 9y agoThis is obviously my own anecdata, but up until about 2 years ago I smoked for close to 20 years. I've never once heard that B12 did anything to prevent cancer. No smoker I ever interacted with - and I interacted with thousands over the years I'm sure - has ever said or implied they took vitamins to offset their tobacco use.
- bluntfang 9y agodid you normally ask smokers about their vitamin cocktails?
- twiss 9y agoVitamin B12 deficiency is common in people who have been vegetarian for many years. (Others usually have a large reserve.) From the speculation in the article, it sounds like they'd be better off taking (normal) doses of it, since it's deficiency or excess that could cause cancer, and not the pills: > Deficiency can also mean genes that should be inhibited are no longer inhibited, also potentially meaning cancer. Sufficiency of certain vitamins is important in cancer prevention, but avoiding excess appears to be similarly important.
- hackermailman 9y agoTim Spector's book The Diet Myth: The Real Science Behind What We Eat has a chapter on B12 deficiency in vegetarians. He anecdotally found using himself as a trial that he couldn't retain B12 in blood level tests while on his usual vegetarian diet despite taking large amounts of supplements. He had to get injected B12 to get the same levels in his blood that consuming a rare steak once a month would provide. From a geneticist's viewpoint he ponders if this is some kind of trait left over from evolution. It's a good book if not 'over-written' meaning way too many flowery and very long anecdotes shoved into the research. He has a chapter on 'Vitamin supplement X causes cancer' studies as well.
- pera 9y agoBy vegetarian do you mean vegan right? I have been an ovo-lacto vegetarian (commonly referred to as "vegetarian" in the US) for 15 years, have never taken any supplements, and my b12 levels are perfectly fine.
- twiss 9y agoHmm. I meant vegetarian, but upon Googling it seems that you're right that dairy and eggs contain B12. I've been vegetarian more or less my whole life but consume lots of dairy and my B12 is low. Maybe the comment sibling to yours explains it.
- prrls 9y ago"Regular" people doesn't need in any way of to these B12 supplements, as there is plenty of it in animal products, which have already been taking B12 supplements all their lives. However, vegans need to take these supplements if they want their B12 intake, without animals as the intermediary. As a side note: B12 is created by micro-organisms in the soil, making our vegetables and fruits completely covered of it. With our modern lifestyle, the soil is terribly poor of these micro-organisms and having cleaned-as-hell vegetables reduces even more the B12 we can find in these vegs.
- fpoling 9y agoIt is interesting that B12 in sufficient quantities is actually made by bacteria in the gut, but as it is not absorbed there (only small intestine can absorb that) it became a waste. It is probably one of the reasons that animals like dogs or gorillas eat their feces. [1] http://www.veganhealth.org/b12/animal http://www.veganhealth.org/b12/animal
- CWuestefeld 9y agoMy Crohn's disease impairs my ability to absorb nutrients, and so my doctor has instructed me to supplement several things, including B vitamins and calcium. In the past he's given me prescriptions for these supplements, but these are vastly more expensive than the equivalent OTC versions (and yes, I've checked that it really is the equivalent molecule). So I'd hate to see new regulations that would increase my expenses just because some people believe in some kind of voodoo nutrition contrary to best practices.
- jlebrech 9y ago
- woliveirajr 9y ago> There was no apparent risk among women—which is not to say it doesn’t exist, only that it wasn’t apparent. Or it doesn't exist, or it even lowers the risk of cancer in women, or ... I hate when something "not found" in some study is streched to fit some specific tone that the article wants.
- nextweek2 9y agoThe word excessive needs to be in the title. In 20 years of looking I've never seen a study that links recommended daily allowance amounts to anything harmful. Yes 1000x RDA vitamins should be banned, but incendiary titles muddy people's thinking.
- 13years 9y agoThe reason people take 1000x plus etc is often due to absorption issue. Many people have problems absorbing B12. That's why they have a deficiency to begin with. In order for these people to get normal B12, it requires extreme doses just for their bodies to absorb normal amounts.
- myth_drannon 9y agoYeah, the older you get the more likely you going to get absorption issues.
- phyzome 9y agoIt's not just that -- there's an active and a passive pathway for absorption. The active pathway is limited to 1-2 µg per day by the quantity of "intrinsic factor" produced by the stomach even for people with no absorption disorder, but about 1% of oral B-12 can be absorbed through passive diffusion. If you're trying to remediate a deficiency, intramsucular shots or high oral doses are the correct approach. I think there's another limitation in how much the liver can capture and process per day, and I don't know what that limit is, but it's higher. In any event, once it is processed (and after excess is eliminated), it is highly conserved in your body -- a few micrograms can last years, IIRC.
- saiya-jin 9y agoI immediately checked my multivitamins that I take after every workout during work week (cca 4x/week). It contains practically all vitamins (100% RDA), plus around 15 minerals (30% RDA). I take 1/2 of tablet on any of those days, after lunch (so absorption with fats is +- ideal). For B12 it says RDA is 2.5 micrograms, so getting cca 1.25 micrograms. It is ridiculous to continuously heavily overdose oneself on various supplements and expect nothing will come out of it. Of course it is harmful, although cancer part surprised me (I would expect rather impaired liver, heart or similar effect).
- xchaotic 9y agoWhile this study is looking at lung cancer specifically, it's worth highlighting how much vitamin B6, b12 and other B-family are you getting via energy drinks. I'm currently hooled on Red Bull sugar free and I believe that long term consumption may be unhealthy for me due to elevated levels of B vitamins: http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beverages/9222/2 http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beverages/9222/2
- DougWebb 9y agoMore likely that long-term consumption may be unhealthy for you due to the elevated levels of Red Bull sugar-free you're getting. Try water.
- myth_drannon 9y agoAlternative milk types(soy,rice..etc), breakfast cereals also have a lot of B12 supplemented
- TheSpiceIsLife 9y agoI'd be more worried about the caffeine, which we know increases demand for calcium and magnesium, and causes an increase in water excretion, among other negative effects.
- nakedrobot2 9y agoI'd be more concerned that you are basically drinking poison.
- tryingagainbro 9y agoThe vitamin industry is scaring people to prop up sales. Eat a more or less varied diet and you'll be fine, unless you have a very specific condition (pregnant for one). Less Vitamin X today is not going to kill you. It's probably better than, "oh I need 1000mg so I'll just take 5000 and let the body handle it."
- gumby 9y agoUh oh, does his mean Vegemite is bad for you!? Seriously, most people with a western, meat-dominated diet likely get sufficient B automatically.
- timthelion 9y agovegemite contains almost no B12.
- gumby 9y agoWhew! (wipes sweat from brow)
- jlebrech 9y agono B12 but crap loads of monosodium glutamate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glutamate_flavoring https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glutamate_flavoring
- ComputerGuru 9y agoMSG is perfectly safe.
- gumby 9y agoOnly if referred to as "kombu" (from which it was first harvested). If you use that scary chemical name it's bad juju.
- gumby 9y agoWait: this was downvoted?? I can understand down voting snark and off-topic comments. I can understand (though disagree with) down voting unpopular opinions. But this is simply a comment (well, two comments) on sources of B vitamins in the human diet. I know complaining of down voting is itself poor form, but really??
- transverse 9y agoAnd B2 lowers the risk, so you are back to baseline. Carry on guys; nothing to see here.
- doitLP 9y agoParticipants took folic acid (lab created), not folate (the form found in nature) which has been shown to be far more absorbable. Folic acid also binds to the folate receptors, preventing folate from food being taken up. In people with MTHFR gene mutations, folic acid is contraindicated. Anyone with such mutations should be avoiding foods with added folic acid. Folate and folacin seem to be ok. MTHFR is already associated with increased cancer and heart disease. No mention was made whether the participants had MTHFR mutations, perhaps because the cohorts started 20 years ago and cheap sequencing wasn't yet available. All it tells is that more actual science needs to be done here. Also the article was classic poor science reporting with obvious bias.
- r0ze-at-hn 9y agoThis really needs to be at the top. It is something 40-60% of the population have MTHFR mutation. Given the size it is kind of surprising the marketing departments haven't started touting MTHFR safe foods on their packaging. After learning about it from my 23andme results I now avoid regularly eating foods with added folic acid and take a supplement which can't be found at the grocery store because they will sell the lab created variety which can't be processed. After these changes various symptoms I have had all my life went away. But I can only guess what would happen if someone with MTHFR were taking the lab versions supplements every day for years.
- mlrtime 9y agoCan you provide more information on the supplement and which symptoms you had disappear? Thanks
- simulate 9y agoIf you use 23andMe, you can get a methylation analysis here: https://geneticgenie.org/methylation-analysis/ https://geneticgenie.org/methylation-analysis/ I'm not connected with Genetic Genie, I'm only sharing a way I found to discover if I have the MTHFR mutation.
- davidpatrick 9y ago
- jackweirdy 9y agoAs someone with an as yet unexplained B12 deficiency (meat eater, never-smoker, no intrinsic factor antibody) who gets injections via cyanocobalamin every other month I feel like I’ve just been hit with more FUD
- kobeya 9y agoGo about your day. This is not at the level of certainty to be actionable.
- danlash 9y agoI guess I'd better stop hitting this VITAMINVAPE
- seanwilson 9y agoI'm not sure why it would be surprising that any supplement can have a bad impact on your body. If you're taking a supplement because you believe it has a potential benefit, it must have some impact on your body so therefore too little or too much must surely be bad as well?
- blacksmith_tb 9y agoIn general terms, I agree. Since B vitamins are mostly water-soluble[1], generally it has been assumed that excess would be excreted, and research that suggests that some of them are not so harmless is news. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin#List_of_vitamins https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin#List_of_vitamins
- culturalzero 9y agoDefinitely worth more research into possible mechanisms, but until studies account for the numerous contamination issues (lead, etc.) that many different home supplements carry, then there is going to be a mystery factor in so many of these studies sending all kinds of mixed signals.
- amriksohata 9y agoSuch a misleading headline and article, most vitamin tablets (atleast in the UK) contain no more than 1-2mg of either B1 or B12, if anything you're going to get more from eating excessive meat which is a higher risk. This study is extremely suspicious as to who funded both it and whos behind this article.
- phyzome 9y agoYou're confusing milligrams (mg) and micrograms (mcg or µg). The recommended daily intake is a few micrograms; those tablets contain 1000 times that amount.
- lcurrit 9y agoI'm surprised the article doesn't mention energy drinks at all. Isn't one of the major selling points of many energy drinks is the amount of B vitamins present? My guess is the amounts the article refers to are much higher concentrations than your average Monster / Redbull / Rockstar.