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Soylent can no longer ship to Canada
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- HarryHirsch 9y agoThe Canadian requirements look very sensible: http://www.inspection.gc.ca/food/labelling/food-labelling-for-industry/special-dietary-use/eng/1393627685223/1393637610720?chap=5 http://www.inspection.gc.ca/food/labelling/food-labelling-fo... Spit it out - which one did Soylent fail?
- raquo 9y agoFat calories would be one reason. 47% in soylent vs 35% max allowed. Their announcement mentions that it failed more than one requirement, so there must be something else in addition to this.
- pmarreck 9y agoThese regulations are outdated. The push against fat calories and towards carbohydrates was largely motivated by the sugar industry, see: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oLtQLDptI1g https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oLtQLDptI1g In addition to this, fat calories are more “filling” than carbohydrate calories. Something useful for a meal replacement (assuming unsaturated/“healthy” fats) I hope Soylent sticks to their guns with the best knowledge available, and I hope interested/concerned Canadians push for reform here.
- DiThi 9y agoFor an explanation with much more detail and less cheesy acting, see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5S6-v37nOtY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5S6-v37nOtY With what we know now, a cap on fat is ridiculous. The cap should be on carbs.
- ajeet_dhaliwal 9y agoI used to live in Canada, now back in UK. Canadians won’t push for reforms. They’ll accept it. Incredibly docile population. Also they have more pressing issues, online purchases from outside Canada are charged duty if the purchase is over CDN $20. In the US the duties apply only after USD $800. See: http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/duty-free-limit-america-1.3467632 http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/duty-free-limit-america-1.34... There are countless other ‘controls’ of this sort in place across a range of issues.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- DKnoll 9y ago> Canadians won’t push for reforms. They’ll accept it. If you think duties on personal purchases from outside the country are a 'pressing issue' your priorities are way out of whack there bud. I'm confused that you criticise Canada for having 'controls' on the population (bit melodromatic) but chose to move back to the UK with its ubiquitous CCTV. I'm just going to leave that docile comment where it lies (in more ways than one) because it's an obvious provocation. Sorry you didn't enjoy your time here.
- whazor 9y agoCrazy to think that they could just add lots of sugar and it will be allowed as a meal replacement.
- saalweachter 9y agoFurther down it says: "When a meal replacement is represented as a replacement for all daily meals, the maximum amount of energy from fat is reduced to 30 percent, of which no more than 10 percent may be from saturated fat. For complete composition requirements, refer to B.24.200 of the FDR." So it's actually 47% vs 30%, plus probably the additional composition requirements.
- tedmiston 9y agoSoylent marketing clearly states that it's not intended as a replacement for all daily meals. Though it seems slightly open to interpretation whether "all" here means "replaces every meal" or "could replace any type of meal breakfast/lunch/dinner" etc. I'm guessing the former.
- api_or_ipa 9y agoI can sympathize with keeping the public safe, but there must be some legal way to promote non-traditional nutrition regimes, in this case as simple as increasing fat consumption. There are many diets suiting many different lifestyles in Canada, from the traditional Inuit meat & fat heavy diet to many 'fad' diets extolled in magazines. It seems strange to me why it's legal to advocate a diet in media but illegal to label a product as such.
- kijin 9y agoAdvocating a diet (or any other opinion) is protected under Section 2 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Actually selling a product with potentially misleading labels is not.
- DanBC 9y agoThe legal way, and this is something that's been pointed out in every single Soylent thread, is to stop selling it as a sole source of nutrition You can do that, but you then need to meet the regulatory hurdles. Or you can market it for the way it's actually used by the vast majority of people - a meal replacement.
- mful 9y agoThe 30% cap on calories from fat is pretty ridiculous in my view. Even if you don't buy into the idea that fat is healthful, there is plenty of science that indicates it is, and so at least CIFA should not regulate fat content in this way. Sidenote: I don't drink Soylent and have no idea if it fails the fat content. I'm in the "Soylent is not healthful" camp, if it matters.
- narrator 9y agoI don't drink Soylent either or think it's that great of a product, but the 30% fat cap is totally ridiculous. It's basically outlawing the ketogenic diet.
- scott_karana 9y agoIt's only outlawing keto diets marketed as general purpose meal replacements.
- mmrezaie 9y agoSo they relabel it and it would be fine?
- qyv 9y agoIf you read the link these rules only apply to labeling for anything marked as a "Meal Replacement" product, like soylent.
- mcv 9y agoSo if Soylent changes the label, they're fine?
- YeGoblynQueenne 9y agoEven if this got them over regulatory problems, they're still in the business of selling meal replacements. What are they going to market their products, as? Dessert? Meal supplement? Their whole business is about selling you all you need to eat.
- mcv 9y agoFrom the article: "There is nothing wrong with the Soylent product you are consuming, this issue emerged from regulatory compliance, not product quality." Is that not what regulatory compliance is about? I wonder what Soylent thinks regulatory compliance is for.
- KSS42 9y agoHere's the full regulation : http://laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/c.r.c.,_c._870/page-81.html#h-129 http://laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/c.r.c.,_c._870/pag...
- allanmacgregor 9y agoWell damn! I just got what likely will be my last shipment for a while now. That sucks I been using soylent for months now.
- zzalpha 9y agoI find it telling that you chose the verb "using" over, say, "eating"... :)
- Tushon 9y agoWell, you don't _eat_ it ;)
- aspett 9y agoUghhhhhhh just got into it. I should have got a bigger box. :|
- patz 9y agoYou can order now, before they run out of stock. I just ordered for extra 2 months. With 3-month supply, I hope the issue can be resolved soon.
- sylvinus 9y agoYou can still use services like http://shipito.com http://shipito.com to forward it to you in Canada. I'm using this to get Soylent to Europe and it works really well (it adds ~$3 per bottle for air freight, but we don't have any good replacement here yet).
- loufe 9y agoGot the email 6 hours after my Canada Post notification of shipment - lucky me?
- primeblue 9y agoI may as well eat dog food milkshakes
- nether 9y agoHuel (another powdered food) is running into this. They just started shipping to the US, but are delayed with Canada because they say the regulations there are "much more stringent." Canada outright banned rBGH.
- deepsun 9y agoFrench people, what can I say...
- colejohnson66 9y agoBut isn’t there “no significant difference between cows treated with rBGH and not”?
- nether 9y agoSo they say. But the EU and Japan also banned it. I don't know who's right.
- pumpaction 9y ago"Huel" sounds like an onomatopoeia for vomiting. Unfortunate name choice.
- kawsper 9y agoThe idea they had was: HUman fuEL = HUEL.
- loeg 9y agoTitle: should be "CFIA."
- cisanti 9y agoAre that kind of drinks popular in North America and if, then why..? I'm having problems understanding why would anyone want to consume something like that.
- cal5k 9y agoWell here's an example - I'm having jaw surgery tomorrow and will be on a liquid diet for a week. I stocked my fridge up with Soylent so that I'd have something decent-tasting and relatively nutritious to drink while I'm feeling like garbage. I also will make shakes, but sometimes soylent is just easier.
- legostormtroopr 9y agoWhy not buy a commercially made meal replacement product that has been on the market for decades and is endorsed by nursing and medical professions and is used in hospitals? Its not like no one had ever done meal-replacement foods before Soylent came along. Its not new, its not cheaper, its not as well regulated, its not as flavorful. Seriously, why would you buy Soylent (which has had numerous beta 'failures') over a something like Ensure/
- tree_of_item 9y agoEnsure in particular is a bad example. I'm sure it is used in lots of hospitals but it shouldn't be: https://storiesbycarrol.wordpress.com/2015/09/01/food-or-vile-glop/ https://storiesbycarrol.wordpress.com/2015/09/01/food-or-vil...
- rblatz 9y agoEveryone is all about trusting science and medical professionals right up until it comes to dietitians... Then suddenly random bloggers and cherry picked studies come flying out of the wood work, much like the anti-vaccine crowd. And I say this with the belief that Americans eat too many carbs, and a higher fat/lower carb diet would be better for people. I just don’t understand this disconnect.
- retox 9y agoPure nanny state behavior, this is people in power wanting to control what their subjects are allowed to do because they think they know best. Smaller government can't come soon enough.
- ovao 9y agoRegulation of food products to some degree is critical to help prevent contamination and illness. In this case, Canada's regulations appear to be simply outdated and, perhaps, overly draconian.
- retox 9y agoI understand the need for regulations, especially in food and drugs, but when it comes to things like regulating the amount of fat/sugar/fiber I can't think of any reason other than an attitude of 'mommy knows best'. Thank you for taking the time to reply.
- arkitaip 9y agoThis seems to be a issue with health/food regulating government agencies all around the world. Here in Sweden the National Food Administration is constantly criticized for outdated dietary advice and are often accused to be influenced by food industry giants. Also, I can go into any grocery store and buy all kinds of snacks, candy and soda which really are 100% garbage "food", so I'm not sure why anyone would think that regulating the percentage of fat would matter in term of health.
- Retric 9y agoThis is specific regulation related to food/meal replacements which are historically closer to medicine than food. I am not saying they are great, but all Solent needs to do is change their marketing not their product. Also, I suspect these regulations have more backing than what you are assuming. They may not be correct, but they are good enough for people survive indefinitely on which is a solid track record. PS: Used soylent for months 1.x and 2.0, swapped to Meal squares.
- 9y ago
- alexozer 9y agoHow about in the meantime, Soylent makes a "Canada edition" that is otherwise identical but declared "NOT a meal replacement"?
- api_or_ipa 9y agoThat's probably what they'll do. "Not a meal replacement but sold in convenient 2000kcal pouches... wink wink".
- smnrchrds 9y agoI don't know about CFIA, but CRA (Canada Revenue Agency) can and does punish violations of the spirit of the law. That is, if a company finds a loophole that allows them to avoid taxes without violating the letter of the law, CRA is legally allowed to prosecute them anyway for violating the spirit of the law. It is not unlikely that such common sense discretions are given to CFIA as well.
- zzalpha 9y agoThis is almost certainly about false claims/marketing based on usage of regulated industry terms. Simply removing the offending labeling would bring them into compliance.
- RunawayGalaxy 9y agoFrom what I understand, Soylent severely underestimates the importance of fiber in the human diet.
- CuriouslyC 9y agoFermentable fibers aren't just important, they're one of the key determinants of how healthy your diet is. Mood, memory & cognitive function, immune function, inflammation and leanness are all strongly influenced by your microbiome. Not only does a high fiber diet promote an optimal microbiome, the byproducts of fiber fermentation are actually the mechanism for most of the benefits. Soylent also fails due to a lack of health-promoting phytonutrients. Between this and the lack of fiber, it is really a poor choice. You really need to get one solid, plant based meal a day for proper health. A better on-the-go alternative to soylent is a mixture of nuts and high phytonutrient dried fruit like blueberries/cherries (without added sugar). Tempeh also works well on the go and it is extremely healthy.
- jm2721 9y agoDo you have any sources for how important fiber is? I usually eat keto, and when I tried adding fiber to my diet I got stomach cramps, felt like I was hungry all the time (which never happens), and grew extremely irritable. Over the next few days I had two or three massive, green bowel movements, which was also unusual since I generally only go twice a week. Previous times I've tried taking some psyllium husk and even that seemed to lead to hunger pangs and bowel movements. I'm always interested in improving my health, so I'll definitely try it again, perhaps more scientifically this time. That said, I don't want to struggle through the annoying symptoms if it turns out that fiber doesn't do anything.
- CuriouslyC 9y agoI'm not surprised you suffered gastro-intestinal upset when you added fiber to a keto diet. Your gut biome was adapted to a low fiber, high fat diet. Rapid changes in dietary composition will frequently cause this issue. One solution to this problem is to consume your fiber along with a probiotic supplement, or preferably a live culture fermented food such as unpasteurized sauerkraut/kimchi/greek yogurt. Beans (particularly lentils) are the most nutritious fiber source, but if you want to stick with the keto diet, you should use inulin instead of psyllium husk, as there is more research demonstrating its efficacy. You may still encounter some GI upset even with a probiotic, but it should decrease as your gut biota adapts over the course of a week or two. For references, there are plenty. Specifically want to look for material related to short chain fatty acids, particularly butyrate, and their role in modulating the immune system, and as histone deacetylase inhibitors. Here are a few reviews to get you started: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4259177/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4259177/ http://www.nature.com/ijo/journal/v39/n9/full/ijo201584a.html http://www.nature.com/ijo/journal/v39/n9/full/ijo201584a.htm... Additionally, I should note that blue zone diets are all high in fermentable carbohydrates, and increased concentrations of short chain fatty acids have been observed in the stool of centenarian populations: http://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/8/9/564/htm http://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/8/9/564/htm Which supports evidence in model organisms such as yeast and fruit flies that butyrate (a short chain fatty acid) extends average lifespan: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1134/S2079057013010153 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1134/S2079057013010153
- gwatch 9y agoWelcome to socialism. Why should there be any cap on fat % (one of the requirements)? If I want to buy a food product knowing full well what the fat content is, and if Soylent wants to sell me a food product faithfully labeling the fat content, each of us to be engaged in a consensual transaction with no externalities (no third party getting hurt), why is Canadian government putting both of us in jail? Socialism is not just a bad idea that does not work, but an evil idea that encroaches on freedom. Feel free to disagree and provide your evidence.
- pumpaction 9y agoPerhaps Canadians with an interest in Soylent could use locally sourced hospital-type meal replacements instead? If obtained from medical suppliers, they'll probably be healthier and have better quality control too.
- simonsarris 9y agoSerious questions for people that drink this stuff: My breakfast is often Siggi's 4% skyr (thick yogurt): http://siggisdairy.com/product/plain-whole-milk-24oz/ http://siggisdairy.com/product/plain-whole-milk-24oz/ Plus Organic valley heavy cream: https://www.organicvalley.coop/products/cream/ https://www.organicvalley.coop/products/cream/ Ususally about 300g + 100g, then sometimes some granola (oats, almonds, sometimes honey), for body. Soylent is: * 37g carb * 21g fats * 20g protein What I'm eating is much healthier by my estimation: * 16g carb * 49g fats * 35g protein (Before granola, which you can use to moderate the carbs if you want.) It is not hard to mix two things together, sometimes three. If you really want to custom flavor it, buy a jam (I suggest Mymoune rose petal jam, from Lebanon, but there are millions of flavors when you pick your own jam!) What is so good about soylent? Why not just mix skyr and heavy cream if that's the kind of meal you want? Why eat a strange synthetic meal from a company that has trouble with rats and mold when you could eat a couple simple whole foods? What problem is Soylent solving, exactly? And aren't you worried about the unfavorable omega 3:6 ratio in this stuff? Just going off the ingredients they list, I can't find any literature they give on the ratio. (If you're not up to speed, the latest: http://openheart.bmj.com/content/openhrt/3/2/e000385.full.pdf http://openheart.bmj.com/content/openhrt/3/2/e000385.full.pd... ) (Diet Note: I'm 5'10 and 146 lbs male, 12-13% body fat. In my diet I aim for ~60-70% calories from fat, but don't always hit it.)
- pumpaction 9y agoI suspect that long-term acolytes of Soylent are victims of marketing, rather than having made rational nutritional choices. Their product does seem to be targeted toward a particular psychological niche.
- Lyle-Cantor 9y agoGod forbid if people were allowed to make their own choices.
- kazagistar 9y agoSoylent replaces pb&js, dominos and eating out. Continuing to attempt to overcome my inability to care enough to sink more time into nutrition is the irrational choice. A moving to a product with both a superior nutrition and effort profile seems pretty rational to me.
- grandalf 9y agoI got a Soylent subscription and it's pretty good to have it around for those times when you really don't want to spend any time preparing food and want something moderately nutritious and fairly inexpensive, with near-infinite shelf life.
- garyrichardson 9y agoField Roast Vegan Sausages (https://fieldroast.com/product-family/sausages/ https://fieldroast.com/product-family/sausages/) were temporarily banned a couple of years ago (http://fieldroast.com/blog/field-roast-coming-back-canada/ http://fieldroast.com/blog/field-roast-coming-back-canada/). I'm a vegetarian, not vegan, but I was pretty angry when they disappeared from our shelves. There was also some scuttlebutt that Field Roast was reported to the CFIA by a competitor. As a left leaning Canadian. But don't tell me what to eat. On the other hand, please keep poisonous or otherwise dangerous foods off of our grocery store shelves. It's a fine line to walk.
- KitDuncan 9y agoCompletly off topic, but everybody should try the field roast apple sage sausages. They are absolutely amazing.
- throwaway413 9y agoThe only meat alternative I can routinely get meat-eaters to not only try, but enjoy.
- InitialLastName 9y agoI started to love "meat alternatives" the moment I stopped expecting them to taste like meat. I'm a thorough meat eater, but I also eat loads of Morningstar Farms Original Chik Patties because they fall in a pretty optimal place for me in the price/nutrition/convenience/taste coordinate system. They don't taste like chicken though.
- garyrichardson 9y agoThe Apple Sage are the only ones I don't like, but I'm definitely in the minority. The Chipolte ones are an acquired taste, but amazing on a hotdog bun with some mozza while camping.
- jbob2000 9y agoI kind of get where the government is coming from with the regulation. The problem isn't you, the conscious food eater; the problem is the parent who buys their kids prepackaged lunch "snacks", who is none the wiser to what's in them. It's a stop-gap measure against "Bear Paw"ing (http://www.darefoods.com/ca_en/product/bear-paws-chocolate-chip/134 http://www.darefoods.com/ca_en/product/bear-paws-chocolate-c...) the hell out of children's lunches.
- discreditable 9y agoI find it funny that on their powder's product page[1], they champion themselves for "Transparent Labeling", and right under that put the "bad" stuff in barely legible grey. 1. https://www.soylent.com/product/powder/ https://www.soylent.com/product/powder/
- graedus 9y agoMaybe they arrived at that gray by increasing the transparency of the normal text color.
- nilved 9y agoThis is simply disingenuous. That's perfectly legible. Especially compared to the common practice of not posting it at all. I don't see how anyone can be upset at this.
- dragonwriter 9y agoI don't think anyone would find it noteworthy if they weren't claiming to be a champion of transparency.
- nilved 9y agoWhich they are, for listing it at all. Complaining that the text is a slightly lighter shade of grey betrays that.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- pervycreeper 9y agoNot to mention describing those traits as "bad". The second column casts the creators in a good light by suggesting that they value empiricism and science over snake-oil and magic.
- earlyriser 9y ago
- ssijak 9y agoI always hated Soylent. Their bold and false marketing (things like "We solved nutrition.", "Complete nutrition no matter which flavor you choose."). If it was me, I would ban them everywhere, not just Canada, because of that false advertising. It is one thing, making a drink and selling it, and another marketing it like that. It was very painful from the start listening how 2 guys with no background SOLVED NUTRITION. And their choice of ingredients is bad in my opinion. Main ones are soy and sunflower oil. Really, find me at least one balanced nutritionist who would recommend sunflower oil in large quantities (hint : omega 3:6:9). Soy has it`s problems too. Then they mix some vitamins and minerals in, but you skip on all of the micronutrients and anything else from real food that is not in Soylent. Also very low fiber. Then your digestion will have problems too eating liquid only for long term. Etc, etc. If you need occasional meal replacement, there are dozens of well-established companies which make one, with much better quality and price in both liquid or powder form.
- NOSHSHNACKERS 9y agoman boobs http://www.mensfitness.com/nutrition/what-to-eat/does-soy-really-cause-man-boobs http://www.mensfitness.com/nutrition/what-to-eat/does-soy-re...
- ForRealsies 9y agoGreat for killing off your testosterone levels though.
- sandworm101 9y agoThey aren't out to fix all the health problems associated with what people do and don't eat, or about any lack of food. The "solve nutrition" stuff is more about solving the "what shall I eat today" question. It's about providing a product to lazy people. They throw some science in because they know that sells to their target market, which isn't everyone. Like most other fad foods the real product is the marketing hype. This news will help. It positions them as another cutting edge company being trampled upon by notoriously evil Canadian food regulators interested only in protecting their vast maple sugar monopolies.
- 9y ago
- nilved 9y agoThis is fairly ridiculous. I'm once again ashamed to be Canadian.
- rusty__ 9y agoMaybe when it comes back to Canada they can do something about their ridiculous Canadian pricing system where the same product for a Canadian shipment is charged more in USD than a US shipment. 'Free Shipping' though (-__-)
- mrleinad 9y agoA bit off-topic, but food related: visited the US a month ago and noticed that almost _everything_ contains corn syrup. What's the deal with that? How come most things (even a plain pot of honey) gets it mixed with the rest of the ingredients? Is it because of cost saving for the manufacturers, or are there some health benefits from consuming corn syrup? Please ignore if this comment is too offtopic for this thread.
- jsjohnst 9y agoCost savings. Corn subsidies have dropped the real cost of corn so much that it’s cheaper to use it for almost anything. HFCS (and corn syrup in general) is more harmful health wise than normal sugars and one of the leading causes of obesity in the US. One of thousands of sources on the health impacts: http://m.ajcn.nutrition.org/content/79/4/537.full http://m.ajcn.nutrition.org/content/79/4/537.full
- jm2721 9y agoI wouldn't say HFCS is more harmful than regular sugar, it is chemically about the same (at least the kind of HFCS used in most foods and sugary beverages). Both are equally bad. When we talk about the leading causes of obesity in the US, we shouldn't differentiate HFCS from sugar, because that just gives food manufacturers an easy out: they can add labels saying "No High Fructose Corn Syrup!" and use sugar instead, rendering the product equally toxic but making it look healthier. They're already doing this, which is why most people understand that HFCS is a problem but are ok with regular sugar.
- jsjohnst 9y ago> I wouldn't say HFCS is more harmful than regular sugar, it is chemically about the same A quick Google search will disprove that commonly held myth. Sugar is bad, but HFCS is worse. Scientists didn't bother researching it for years, but once they did, they learned that despite obvious similarities chemically, the body processes it differently.
- iraphael 9y ago
- earlyriser 9y agoI'm Canadian and drink Soylent regularly, maybe like 2-4 times per month. Soylent is again doing a poor job on PR in that FAQ. The most important questions are which requirements are the failing and why. That's all, but again they're obscure and far from the public. Same was when lots of their consumers wanted a non-edulcorated version (it was very sweet some versions ago) and then there was no communication on their side. I still buy it, because it's convenient, but they could improve their communication.
- zzalpha 9y agoI'm Canadian and drink Soylent regularly, maybe like 2-4 times per month. Random aside: Once every week or two is considered "regular" consumption to you? Isn't this product supposed to be the end-all and be-all of meal replacements? What has curtailed your consumption?
- dmix 9y ago> Isn't this product supposed to be the end-all and be-all of meal replacements? I don't know why so many people think this is the case and then hate on the product. Taking too much of any one thing is bad for you. People were doing only-soylent as an experiment. But for the most part 90% of the time I've read people only using it for a single meal each day, or on days they dont have time to cook, and eating regular food otherwise. Which sounds entirely reasonable to me, especially given how often people substituted those moments with junk food.
- zzalpha 9y agoI don't know why so many people think this is the case and then hate on the product. Because that's how it's positioned in the market? Like, literally what they claim it's for, and supposedly the reason they went into business? Heck, Rhinehart once claimed "I have not set foot in a grocery store in years. Nevermore will I bumble through endless confusing aisles like a pack-donkey searching for feed while the smell of rotting flesh fills my nostrils and fluorescent lights sear my eyeballs and sappy love songs torture my ears."
- aianus 9y agoCan we get around this by using a reshipping service from the US? Or would those shipments be blocked as well?
- YeGoblynQueenne 9y agoThe post is vague enough about the specific regulations it's supposed to have broken. This doesn't make the Canadian government's regulations look overly stringent, it instead makes Soylent look like they're trying to not scare off their customers, at best.
- CodeWriter23 9y agoTo me, not addressing the specific regs they are afoul of is a huge lie of omission. Especially considering they are trying to cast those regulations as "outdated". If they are outdated, then put it out there. I'm sure the geeks who no doubt make up the lion's share of their customer base will be able to vet the regulations vs. reality.