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Startups and such typically don’t want young people because their smarter, it’s because their more gullible career wise. Sure some people get a bit stale with a

Startups and such typically don’t want young people because their smarter, it’s because their more gullible career wise. Sure some people get a bit stale with age but some also get far far smarter and their experience can be very valuable. “Hey guys we have no business plan or customers, but please pull a few more all nighters to finish this bit of code.” 22 year old living with 5 roommates is like “yes sure, whatever you say” while 40 year old with lots of experience is like “you don’t know what the F you’re doing... I’m outta here.” That’s why.

cjsuk 9y ago
Exactly this. I’ve always been the “I’m outta here” guy. Never been wrong. I actually worked for a startup a number of years ago and quit after two hours. A big chunk of the startup industry is preying on the gullible.
- nsxwolf 9y ago
  What made you decide to quit after 2 hours? I'm trying to imagine something. It would have to be along the lines of "CEO exposed himself to me in the stairwell". Anything else I'd probably give it the benefit of the doubt until the end of the day at least.
  - cjsuk 9y ago
    Well it turned out that the legality of what the startup was doing was extremely questionable and ethically a line I couldn't cross. They are a quite notorious outfit still running. Basically the objective was to rip as many people off as possible by buying up a scarce resource and then inflating the price. They have faced legislative and legal battles and protests outside their HQ since. They had to move to a foreign country in the end. Me, I went to lunch in Subway over the road, scoffed a meatball marinara while contemplating the situation, concluded "fuck this" and went home. Plus I arrived to a world of no source control and ADO datasets in .Net which nearly made the meatball marinara come back out again.
donatj 9y ago
It’s also family and responsibility. When I was young and single I had no reason to really go home after work, so I’d linger at work to finish things and I would work on work things at home in my spare time. Now that I’m married, I have more important things to do and my company gets much less free labor.
- sotojuan 9y ago
  > When I was young and single I had no reason to really go home after work, so I’d linger at work to finish things and I would work on work things at home in my spare time. I am 23 (started working in programming at 22) and this view confuses me. I don't want to sound rude but... you didn't have hobbies? Friends? Partner? Errands to run? Non-work programming projects? Even when I was single and lived alone, I had plenty of reasons to leave after 8 hours. Again, everyone lives life differently but I can't imagine having no reason to leave work, at any age.
  - gtirloni 9y ago
    Some people might enjoy the work they do so much that it feels better to keep doing that in their spare time rather then having a hobby, time with friends, partner, errands (specially those), etc. It's not healthy in the long term but I can see why someone would choose that path and it doesn't have to mean this person "doesn't have a life".
  - seanmcdirmid 9y ago
    You'd be surprised how much a family sucks time from your life. Before baby, I had plenty of time to overtime work as well as pursue my hobbies. Now that is all gone....
    - sotojuan 9y ago
      My point was that, at 23, I also have no time for overtime work. Not because I have kids to pick up or take care of sure, but that does not make it OK for companies to expect long hours outside of emergencies.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
icantdrive55 9y ago
Let's not discount the magic of testosterone, hungry, and extremely driven males? That said, those same males will steal your ideas, and smile in your fresh founder face. If you get the right person, he/she just might make your company a huge success. Why does Peter Thiel basically want young people for his fellowships? He knows that's where the huge, big ideas come from. He knows there a magical age, with the right backing, might make him more money. That said, most companies just need competent workers. Workers that aren't idolizing Zuckerburg. So many companies are sabotaging their organizatons by not hiring the more mature employee.
binaryapparatus 9y ago
This is VERY good analysis, everything else is padding to validate why 40 year old are not good fits. It is puzzling that most business owners prefer to save their imagined superior position than to get the job done. Sure I have seen ton of problems (and solved most of them) in 25+ years of carrier and I can be of great help in any startup. My caring for the company and input should be welcomed, not seen as threat. It seems that most business owners are there because they need to be worshiped, not because they want to run successful business. Maybe I am too old to understand that new logic.
- adventurer 9y ago
  Higher-ups and execs don't care if you're mediocre and barely get the job done as long as you kiss their ass and take their low pay to make them look good and get their bonuses.
  - binaryapparatus 9y ago
    I understand that to some degree, there always was and will be crappy companies. What I don't get is that great majority (say 95%) of companies I encountered in last ten years were all about 'earning on salaries'. In the entire hierarchy of the company there has to be somebody that recognizes quality and experience over job barely done (or not at all). I see companies that prefer gullible as make pretend role playing, there is no money and business is barely moving along but hey at least I am owning something. Just don't get it I suppose. I did run successful company then sold it at its peak, but it was never about role playing while I was at the top.
  - matwood 9y ago
    I think this attitude gets in the way of finding what is really happening. Are there companies with bad management? Yes, but I think that is generally the exception. As someone who has been a manager and a 'higher up/exec' at various points, I never cared about someones age. I wanted people working for me who could get the job done so I could get my bonus/promotion/whatever. No managers that I know want mediocre or ass kissing, because none of that helps get the job done which is what really leads to more money (through bonuses and advancement).
azr79 9y ago
> because their smarter > their not as "smart" as you are
- dang 9y ago
  Would you please stop posting unsubstantive comments to HN?

cjsuk 9y ago

Exactly this. I’ve always been the “I’m outta here” guy. Never been wrong. I actually worked for a startup a number of years ago and quit after two hours. A big chunk of the startup industry is preying on the gullible.

nsxwolf 9y ago
What made you decide to quit after 2 hours? I'm trying to imagine something. It would have to be along the lines of "CEO exposed himself to me in the stairwell". Anything else I'd probably give it the benefit of the doubt until the end of the day at least.
- cjsuk 9y ago
  Well it turned out that the legality of what the startup was doing was extremely questionable and ethically a line I couldn't cross. They are a quite notorious outfit still running. Basically the objective was to rip as many people off as possible by buying up a scarce resource and then inflating the price. They have faced legislative and legal battles and protests outside their HQ since. They had to move to a foreign country in the end. Me, I went to lunch in Subway over the road, scoffed a meatball marinara while contemplating the situation, concluded "fuck this" and went home. Plus I arrived to a world of no source control and ADO datasets in .Net which nearly made the meatball marinara come back out again.

donatj 9y ago

It’s also family and responsibility. When I was young and single I had no reason to really go home after work, so I’d linger at work to finish things and I would work on work things at home in my spare time. Now that I’m married, I have more important things to do and my company gets much less free labor.

sotojuan 9y ago
> When I was young and single I had no reason to really go home after work, so I’d linger at work to finish things and I would work on work things at home in my spare time. I am 23 (started working in programming at 22) and this view confuses me. I don't want to sound rude but... you didn't have hobbies? Friends? Partner? Errands to run? Non-work programming projects? Even when I was single and lived alone, I had plenty of reasons to leave after 8 hours. Again, everyone lives life differently but I can't imagine having no reason to leave work, at any age.
- gtirloni 9y ago
  Some people might enjoy the work they do so much that it feels better to keep doing that in their spare time rather then having a hobby, time with friends, partner, errands (specially those), etc. It's not healthy in the long term but I can see why someone would choose that path and it doesn't have to mean this person "doesn't have a life".
- seanmcdirmid 9y ago
  You'd be surprised how much a family sucks time from your life. Before baby, I had plenty of time to overtime work as well as pursue my hobbies. Now that is all gone....
  - sotojuan 9y ago
    My point was that, at 23, I also have no time for overtime work. Not because I have kids to pick up or take care of sure, but that does not make it OK for companies to expect long hours outside of emergencies.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

icantdrive55 9y ago

Let's not discount the magic of testosterone, hungry, and extremely driven males? That said, those same males will steal your ideas, and smile in your fresh founder face. If you get the right person, he/she just might make your company a huge success. Why does Peter Thiel basically want young people for his fellowships? He knows that's where the huge, big ideas come from. He knows there a magical age, with the right backing, might make him more money. That said, most companies just need competent workers. Workers that aren't idolizing Zuckerburg. So many companies are sabotaging their organizatons by not hiring the more mature employee.

binaryapparatus 9y ago

This is VERY good analysis, everything else is padding to validate why 40 year old are not good fits. It is puzzling that most business owners prefer to save their imagined superior position than to get the job done. Sure I have seen ton of problems (and solved most of them) in 25+ years of carrier and I can be of great help in any startup. My caring for the company and input should be welcomed, not seen as threat. It seems that most business owners are there because they need to be worshiped, not because they want to run successful business. Maybe I am too old to understand that new logic.

adventurer 9y ago
Higher-ups and execs don't care if you're mediocre and barely get the job done as long as you kiss their ass and take their low pay to make them look good and get their bonuses.
- binaryapparatus 9y ago
  I understand that to some degree, there always was and will be crappy companies. What I don't get is that great majority (say 95%) of companies I encountered in last ten years were all about 'earning on salaries'. In the entire hierarchy of the company there has to be somebody that recognizes quality and experience over job barely done (or not at all). I see companies that prefer gullible as make pretend role playing, there is no money and business is barely moving along but hey at least I am owning something. Just don't get it I suppose. I did run successful company then sold it at its peak, but it was never about role playing while I was at the top.
- matwood 9y ago
  I think this attitude gets in the way of finding what is really happening. Are there companies with bad management? Yes, but I think that is generally the exception. As someone who has been a manager and a 'higher up/exec' at various points, I never cared about someones age. I wanted people working for me who could get the job done so I could get my bonus/promotion/whatever. No managers that I know want mediocre or ass kissing, because none of that helps get the job done which is what really leads to more money (through bonuses and advancement).

azr79 9y ago

> because their smarter > their not as "smart" as you are

dang 9y ago
Would you please stop posting unsubstantive comments to HN?