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Aussie here: Good riddance. This country is at the end of Earth in terms of supply chains and export markets, has a small local market and has extremely high l

Aussie here: Good riddance. This country is at the end of Earth in terms of supply chains and export markets, has a small local market and has extremely high labor costs -- all in all, a terrible place to build the kind of megafactory you need to stay competitive these days. The only reason they managed to survive even this long is massive government subsidies, and I applaud the fact that the government had the guts to finally pull the plug. All that said, the transition away is going to have a high human cost, particularly in Adelaide which just doesn't have a whole lot else going economically. But my wife used to work for a Ford supplier in Melbourne, and that city has managed to absorb Ford's shutdown a few years ago without too much pain. (Nearby Geelong, though, had both the main factory and a steel mill, and is having a harder time.)

megablast 9y ago
I agree good riddance, but for a different reason. I hope we can start to move towards smart cities, and getting rid of cars. It is ridiculous the reliance on cars that people in cities have.
- bdamm 9y ago
  It's almost too obvious but... cars aren't going away, mate.
  - ferentchak 9y ago
    For example the v8 interceptor will outlive all those so called "smart cities"
- stephenr 9y ago
  ... have you ever been to Australia? It's a big fucking place with fuck all people (compared to a lot of the rest of the developed world). The solution to society's problems is not "all get rid of our cars and live in shoe boxes 1 minute walk away from each other".
  - _kyran 9y ago
    If I'm not mistaken, the person that you're responding to is from Australia and lives in one of the cities where Ford closed their factory :)
  - ACow_Adonis 9y ago
    You're both wrong and right :p While the distances between the towns in Australia is massive, most of our population resides in a handful of urban coastal cities. While car culture is historically dominant, the biggest cities are all seriously trending towards increased densification, and much of our substantial immigration over the past 2 decades had been from nations used to much denser living. I leave open the question as to whether it is the answer to all societies problems, but it would be a brave man to proclaim that wasn't the way Australian cities and population hadn't been trending for the past 10 years, and we'll likely trend for at least the next 10.
    - stephenr 9y ago
      most of Australia's population lives in the suburbs surrounding the city. Public transport from the suburbs to anywhere but the city or somewhere directly on the way, is terrible. Will we have better cars that are less polluting, safer, even self driving? Sure. Will we get rid of personal motorised transportation? No.
      - elementalest 9y ago
        Yep, and try getting the government to pay the billions required to get public transport up to standard to be able to just provide adequate transport for the majority of people in those cities.
      - ACow_Adonis 9y ago
        Perhaps I am overly generous in assuming that anyone talking about getting rid of cars is partaking in rhetorical hyperbole, and moreso making the point that we might be moving away from 2-3 cars for every household in the burbs, and approaching/trending towards 1-2 overall. I will add in addition to my above post, that our high property prices are additionally feeding an additional densification trend...
corn_dog 9y ago
Yep, this has been a long time coming. I grew up in Adelaide, even in the late '80s the car industry was politically contentious, needing large tariff protection to be competitive with imports. AFAIK the wind-down has been slow and steady with no sudden surprises.
dalbasal 9y ago
The subsidies were not that huge (at least recently), in the scheme of things. The local manufacturers were basically given a much slower reduction of tariffs than other imports, starting 25-30 years ago. Australia has generally been ahead of the curve in reducing these, relative to most places.
- jussij 9y ago
  And when compared to the 4+ billion the government forks out for the coal, oil and gas companies every year, it is nearly nothing: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-11/coal-oil-and-gas-companies-receive-4-billion-dollar-in-subsidie/5881814 http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-11/coal-oil-and-gas-compa... http://reneweconomy.com.au/australian-fossil-fuel-subsidies-put-at-5-6bn-a-year-in-new-report-43490/ http://reneweconomy.com.au/australian-fossil-fuel-subsidies-... By comparison the car industry only received about 5 Billion over 10 years: https://theconversation.com/factcheck-do-other-countries-subsidise-their-car-industry-more-than-we-do-16308 https://theconversation.com/factcheck-do-other-countries-sub...
  - jamhan 9y ago
    I always find it amusing when people compare pork barrelling amounts as "only" or "mere". "It was only 5 billion". I wonder how many companies, schools, hospitals etc would like an extra 500 million dollars per year just for doing the job they should be already doing in a democratic capitalist society. How many people cried for IT workers in Australia when the 457s were imported en masse or Telstra, IBM etc out-sourced their IT to India? How much subsidy or compensation did the IT workers of Australia get for that? Australians complain about all the scams they get from Indian callers and conveniently forget that they only happen because Telstra gave overseas scammers a free trove of Australian consumer data and very little was done to stop it. Globalisation and cheaper prices come with huge hidden costs.
    - jussij 9y ago
      > I always find it amusing when people compare pork barrelling amounts as "only" or "mere". "It was only 5 billion". It was 5 billion over ten years compared with nearly 5 billion each year. When you do that comparisons it is a mere 5 billion. Now I'm not arguing that governments should be propping up sectors with pork barrelling. That is something for the electorate to decide. However, the current government always claimed they had to stop propping up the car industry, because governments should not be in the business of handing out subsidies. That government statement is disingenuous and total hypocrisy, since they will not be removing those coal, oil and mining subsides any time soon.
vkou 9y ago
So, without value-add industries, how will the economy of Australia function long-term? As an exporter of raw commodities? That has not worked out well... For pretty much every nation that's tried it.
- dalbasal 9y ago
  Works ok in Norway.
  - vkou 9y ago
    How well is it working in Sub-Saharan Africa? And, uh, Norway is diversifying its economy, instead of doubling-down on resource extraction. It's not actively de-industrializing.
    - SturgeonsLaw 9y ago
      African nations have had a history of being pillaged from without and within, a comparison would be fairer among countries with similar governments and economic structures.
      - adventured 9y ago
        Nearly all nations have a history of being pillaged or similar. Half of Europe was bombed, butchered or destroyed 75 years ago, the other half was enslaved or otherwise ruled by dictators for a generation. China was tortured by several of the colonial powers, the Japanese, and then Mao. It's the world's #2 economy today. Japan was flattened and nuked. It's the world's #3 economy today. Germany was destroyed, split in half, and impoverished on one half for two generations. It's the world's #4 economy today. South Korea survived a horrific civil war and Japanese occupation. Starting from intense poverty just 50 years ago - $150 per capita GDP - it now has the world's #11 economy. And so on.
        dba7dba 9y ago
        Of those non-African nations you mentioned, it is absolutely astounding that South Korea not only escaped the abject poverty but has joined the top 10 or 15 in a lot of metrics used to measure a nation. In 64 years. After the end of the Korean War 1950 - 53, South Korea was the absolute last on the planet in terms of GDP. Poorer than most of the poorer nations. And remember the trauma of having gone through a conventional warfare that went up and down the peninsula about 4 time. Not some guerrilla warfare where a neighborhood here and there goes up in smoke but a good old WW1 style warfare of massive artillery barrages. And before the Korean War, Korea was largely a place stuck in the 19th century, with no modern education or institutions to speak of. In 64 years, they educated the population, built up basic economy, and than kept on advancing.
_kyran 9y ago
Not steel, but rather an Aluminium Smelter and Mill. Also, just down the road its accompanying power plant/coal mine: http://www.alcoa.com/australia/en/point-henry/default.asp http://www.alcoa.com/australia/en/point-henry/default.asp

megablast 9y ago

I agree good riddance, but for a different reason. I hope we can start to move towards smart cities, and getting rid of cars. It is ridiculous the reliance on cars that people in cities have.

bdamm 9y ago
It's almost too obvious but... cars aren't going away, mate.
- ferentchak 9y ago
  For example the v8 interceptor will outlive all those so called "smart cities"
stephenr 9y ago
... have you ever been to Australia? It's a big fucking place with fuck all people (compared to a lot of the rest of the developed world). The solution to society's problems is not "all get rid of our cars and live in shoe boxes 1 minute walk away from each other".
- _kyran 9y ago
  If I'm not mistaken, the person that you're responding to is from Australia and lives in one of the cities where Ford closed their factory :)
- ACow_Adonis 9y ago
  You're both wrong and right :p While the distances between the towns in Australia is massive, most of our population resides in a handful of urban coastal cities. While car culture is historically dominant, the biggest cities are all seriously trending towards increased densification, and much of our substantial immigration over the past 2 decades had been from nations used to much denser living. I leave open the question as to whether it is the answer to all societies problems, but it would be a brave man to proclaim that wasn't the way Australian cities and population hadn't been trending for the past 10 years, and we'll likely trend for at least the next 10.
  - stephenr 9y ago
    most of Australia's population lives in the suburbs surrounding the city. Public transport from the suburbs to anywhere but the city or somewhere directly on the way, is terrible. Will we have better cars that are less polluting, safer, even self driving? Sure. Will we get rid of personal motorised transportation? No.
    - elementalest 9y ago
      Yep, and try getting the government to pay the billions required to get public transport up to standard to be able to just provide adequate transport for the majority of people in those cities.
    - ACow_Adonis 9y ago
      Perhaps I am overly generous in assuming that anyone talking about getting rid of cars is partaking in rhetorical hyperbole, and moreso making the point that we might be moving away from 2-3 cars for every household in the burbs, and approaching/trending towards 1-2 overall. I will add in addition to my above post, that our high property prices are additionally feeding an additional densification trend...

corn_dog 9y ago

Yep, this has been a long time coming. I grew up in Adelaide, even in the late '80s the car industry was politically contentious, needing large tariff protection to be competitive with imports. AFAIK the wind-down has been slow and steady with no sudden surprises.

dalbasal 9y ago

The subsidies were not that huge (at least recently), in the scheme of things. The local manufacturers were basically given a much slower reduction of tariffs than other imports, starting 25-30 years ago. Australia has generally been ahead of the curve in reducing these, relative to most places.

jussij 9y ago
And when compared to the 4+ billion the government forks out for the coal, oil and gas companies every year, it is nearly nothing: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-11/coal-oil-and-gas-companies-receive-4-billion-dollar-in-subsidie/5881814 http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-11/coal-oil-and-gas-compa... http://reneweconomy.com.au/australian-fossil-fuel-subsidies-put-at-5-6bn-a-year-in-new-report-43490/ http://reneweconomy.com.au/australian-fossil-fuel-subsidies-... By comparison the car industry only received about 5 Billion over 10 years: https://theconversation.com/factcheck-do-other-countries-subsidise-their-car-industry-more-than-we-do-16308 https://theconversation.com/factcheck-do-other-countries-sub...
- jamhan 9y ago
  I always find it amusing when people compare pork barrelling amounts as "only" or "mere". "It was only 5 billion". I wonder how many companies, schools, hospitals etc would like an extra 500 million dollars per year just for doing the job they should be already doing in a democratic capitalist society. How many people cried for IT workers in Australia when the 457s were imported en masse or Telstra, IBM etc out-sourced their IT to India? How much subsidy or compensation did the IT workers of Australia get for that? Australians complain about all the scams they get from Indian callers and conveniently forget that they only happen because Telstra gave overseas scammers a free trove of Australian consumer data and very little was done to stop it. Globalisation and cheaper prices come with huge hidden costs.
  - jussij 9y ago
    > I always find it amusing when people compare pork barrelling amounts as "only" or "mere". "It was only 5 billion". It was 5 billion over ten years compared with nearly 5 billion each year. When you do that comparisons it is a mere 5 billion. Now I'm not arguing that governments should be propping up sectors with pork barrelling. That is something for the electorate to decide. However, the current government always claimed they had to stop propping up the car industry, because governments should not be in the business of handing out subsidies. That government statement is disingenuous and total hypocrisy, since they will not be removing those coal, oil and mining subsides any time soon.

vkou 9y ago

So, without value-add industries, how will the economy of Australia function long-term? As an exporter of raw commodities? That has not worked out well... For pretty much every nation that's tried it.

dalbasal 9y ago
Works ok in Norway.
- vkou 9y ago
  How well is it working in Sub-Saharan Africa? And, uh, Norway is diversifying its economy, instead of doubling-down on resource extraction. It's not actively de-industrializing.
  - SturgeonsLaw 9y ago
    African nations have had a history of being pillaged from without and within, a comparison would be fairer among countries with similar governments and economic structures.
    - adventured 9y ago
      Nearly all nations have a history of being pillaged or similar. Half of Europe was bombed, butchered or destroyed 75 years ago, the other half was enslaved or otherwise ruled by dictators for a generation. China was tortured by several of the colonial powers, the Japanese, and then Mao. It's the world's #2 economy today. Japan was flattened and nuked. It's the world's #3 economy today. Germany was destroyed, split in half, and impoverished on one half for two generations. It's the world's #4 economy today. South Korea survived a horrific civil war and Japanese occupation. Starting from intense poverty just 50 years ago - $150 per capita GDP - it now has the world's #11 economy. And so on.
      - dba7dba 9y ago
        Of those non-African nations you mentioned, it is absolutely astounding that South Korea not only escaped the abject poverty but has joined the top 10 or 15 in a lot of metrics used to measure a nation. In 64 years. After the end of the Korean War 1950 - 53, South Korea was the absolute last on the planet in terms of GDP. Poorer than most of the poorer nations. And remember the trauma of having gone through a conventional warfare that went up and down the peninsula about 4 time. Not some guerrilla warfare where a neighborhood here and there goes up in smoke but a good old WW1 style warfare of massive artillery barrages. And before the Korean War, Korea was largely a place stuck in the 19th century, with no modern education or institutions to speak of. In 64 years, they educated the population, built up basic economy, and than kept on advancing.

_kyran 9y ago

Not steel, but rather an Aluminium Smelter and Mill. Also, just down the road its accompanying power plant/coal mine: http://www.alcoa.com/australia/en/point-henry/default.asp http://www.alcoa.com/australia/en/point-henry/default.asp