4 ms·

One thing I think that this analysis misses is the fact that, for most people, you're not going to enjoy the flight no matter what. At that point most people s

by akeefer 16y ago

One thing I think that this analysis misses is the fact that, for most people, you're not going to enjoy the flight no matter what. At that point most people shift from "maximize enjoyment" mode, where paying more for something better is more rational, to "minimize costs mode." If I'm going to spend 5 hours being uncomfortable whether I spend $300 or $500, what's the point in paying more? I think there's a certain enjoyment threshold below which something becomes "unpleasant," and moving from one state below that threshold to another state also below that threshold isn't as valuable as a similar state shift would be if the initial state happened to be above that threshold.

ghshephard 16y ago
"you're not going to enjoy the flight no matter what." Why aren't there carriers that try and create a comfortable and enjoyable flight experience? The article spent a great deal of time explaining that people pay on two factors, price and schedule. Attempting to differentiate on comfort doesn't win you more customers, therefore, the carriers aren't incented to create a comfortable flight experience. I've certainly had some really outstanding flight experiences, usually when being upgraded. But, I think I see what you are getting at - we're so far beyond that point right now, that subtle increases in comfort won't register - you need a quantum leap - something akin to moving into first class, to really capture people's imagination.
- abyssknight 16y ago
  Well, JetBlue kind of does this already. You get more leg room and infinite snacks/drinks on every flight. They also have live television for free, in flight.
  - joe_the_user 16y ago
    Virgin America has leather seats, AC plugs in every seat, $12 wifi, decent meals for $10 and lots of TV channels with LCD screens at every seat that go on all by themselves. They still packed us in like a sardines but, hey, I could have bought business class for an extra $100 at the gate (I bought the meal and used the plug, though my laptop was a bit big for the space). I personally found the experience like a bad sci-fi nightmare but it does seem they are trying for what some people might enjoy.
    - hugh3 16y ago
      I've flown Virgin America's business (I think they call it first) class when it was only a $60 upgrade (SFO to LAS, not a long flight) and it was the only truly enjoyable flight I've had, at least since I was a kid. But I probably wouldn't do it again, even at sixty bucks, because heck, sitting in a comfortable chair isn't that fantastic. I can do it at home for free. And while I got a free glass of MacAllan 12-year, they still didn't give me anything to eat except a bag of chips. But yeah, in economy class there's only so much that can be done to make the flight more enjoyable without giving people more room, and getting a little more room turns out to cost more than most people are willing to pay. Still, I'll take a Virgin America flight over an American Airlines one any day.
      - mmt 16y ago
        getting a little more room turns out to cost more than most people are willing to pay I don't think it turns out this way at all, since I don't recall ever having the option of paying for more room (and nothing else). The physical seat type always seems to be bundled with something else, such as an upgraded meal. I'd be curious as to how much of the cost of the flight is weight versus space. I don't doubt that it leans heavily toward space, if a European airline is considering a sort of standing "seat." However, the ratio would help reveal what an extra inch of seatch pitch (and/or width) would actually cost.
        hugh3 16y ago
        I don't think it turns out this way at all, since I don't recall ever having the option of paying for more room (and nothing else). The physical seat type always seems to be bundled with something else, such as an upgraded meal. Many airlines now have a "premium economy" section on international flights which offers just this. Maybe some of them have minor extra features too (like, I think I got a free drink before takeoff, and I certainly got better service, the one time I got upgraded to Premium Economy) but basically it's just the extra legroom. I'd probably pay for it on long flights if I were just a little bit richer.
      - matwood 16y ago
- amalcon 16y ago
  They could start by putting seats in the plane that do not recline. I'd easily pay an extra $20 per ticket to not place my knees at the mercy of whatever random person happens to sit in front of me, and it should actually be cheaper for the airline. This is really the only significant differential I've ever had in flying experience, on AirTran/JetBlue/Southwest/Delta/United: Whether or not the person in front of me chooses to recline their seat.
  - mrduncan 16y ago
    Just another illustration of how vastly different flying experiences can be on the exact same airline. If you're not already aware, seats that have their backs to an exit row never recline. So, your best bet (until an airline offers you your wish) would be either an exit-row seat or a bulkhead seat.
    - amalcon 16y ago
      Yeah, I'd thought of this. Unfortunately, the exit row is not normally an option for physical reasons (I often travel with someone who could not do what's needed if there is a problem), and I've only once been so lucky as to get a bulkhead seat. The other option, of course, is to simply not fly. For the price of an extra laptop battery, a bus (or train or boat) ticket, and optionally some sort of network connectivity, I can get where I'm going slowly but comfortably and productively. It has not quite reached the point where this is superior to flying, but it's moving in that direction.
      - eru 16y ago
        Move to Europe or Japan. We have trains.
    - detst 16y ago
      At 6'3", this is the difference between a miserable and pleasant flying experience. And if you don't want to pay the extra fee usually charged, immediately go to the counter and request it. Usually there are exit-row seats that nobody paid for and they'll give it to you.
dman 16y ago
Why cant a flight be like a bar with a pool table and darts or at least fps fragfests on lan?
- Anon84 16y ago
  Three words: "flying cue balls" (As soon as you hit turbulence)

by akeefer 16y ago

ghshephard 16y ago

"you're not going to enjoy the flight no matter what." Why aren't there carriers that try and create a comfortable and enjoyable flight experience? The article spent a great deal of time explaining that people pay on two factors, price and schedule. Attempting to differentiate on comfort doesn't win you more customers, therefore, the carriers aren't incented to create a comfortable flight experience. I've certainly had some really outstanding flight experiences, usually when being upgraded. But, I think I see what you are getting at - we're so far beyond that point right now, that subtle increases in comfort won't register - you need a quantum leap - something akin to moving into first class, to really capture people's imagination.

abyssknight 16y ago
Well, JetBlue kind of does this already. You get more leg room and infinite snacks/drinks on every flight. They also have live television for free, in flight.
- joe_the_user 16y ago
  Virgin America has leather seats, AC plugs in every seat, $12 wifi, decent meals for $10 and lots of TV channels with LCD screens at every seat that go on all by themselves. They still packed us in like a sardines but, hey, I could have bought business class for an extra $100 at the gate (I bought the meal and used the plug, though my laptop was a bit big for the space). I personally found the experience like a bad sci-fi nightmare but it does seem they are trying for what some people might enjoy.
  - hugh3 16y ago
    I've flown Virgin America's business (I think they call it first) class when it was only a $60 upgrade (SFO to LAS, not a long flight) and it was the only truly enjoyable flight I've had, at least since I was a kid. But I probably wouldn't do it again, even at sixty bucks, because heck, sitting in a comfortable chair isn't that fantastic. I can do it at home for free. And while I got a free glass of MacAllan 12-year, they still didn't give me anything to eat except a bag of chips. But yeah, in economy class there's only so much that can be done to make the flight more enjoyable without giving people more room, and getting a little more room turns out to cost more than most people are willing to pay. Still, I'll take a Virgin America flight over an American Airlines one any day.
    - mmt 16y ago
      getting a little more room turns out to cost more than most people are willing to pay I don't think it turns out this way at all, since I don't recall ever having the option of paying for more room (and nothing else). The physical seat type always seems to be bundled with something else, such as an upgraded meal. I'd be curious as to how much of the cost of the flight is weight versus space. I don't doubt that it leans heavily toward space, if a European airline is considering a sort of standing "seat." However, the ratio would help reveal what an extra inch of seatch pitch (and/or width) would actually cost.
      - hugh3 16y ago
        I don't think it turns out this way at all, since I don't recall ever having the option of paying for more room (and nothing else). The physical seat type always seems to be bundled with something else, such as an upgraded meal. Many airlines now have a "premium economy" section on international flights which offers just this. Maybe some of them have minor extra features too (like, I think I got a free drink before takeoff, and I certainly got better service, the one time I got upgraded to Premium Economy) but basically it's just the extra legroom. I'd probably pay for it on long flights if I were just a little bit richer.
    - matwood 16y ago
amalcon 16y ago
They could start by putting seats in the plane that do not recline. I'd easily pay an extra $20 per ticket to not place my knees at the mercy of whatever random person happens to sit in front of me, and it should actually be cheaper for the airline. This is really the only significant differential I've ever had in flying experience, on AirTran/JetBlue/Southwest/Delta/United: Whether or not the person in front of me chooses to recline their seat.
- mrduncan 16y ago
  Just another illustration of how vastly different flying experiences can be on the exact same airline. If you're not already aware, seats that have their backs to an exit row never recline. So, your best bet (until an airline offers you your wish) would be either an exit-row seat or a bulkhead seat.
  - amalcon 16y ago
    Yeah, I'd thought of this. Unfortunately, the exit row is not normally an option for physical reasons (I often travel with someone who could not do what's needed if there is a problem), and I've only once been so lucky as to get a bulkhead seat. The other option, of course, is to simply not fly. For the price of an extra laptop battery, a bus (or train or boat) ticket, and optionally some sort of network connectivity, I can get where I'm going slowly but comfortably and productively. It has not quite reached the point where this is superior to flying, but it's moving in that direction.
    - eru 16y ago
      Move to Europe or Japan. We have trains.
  - detst 16y ago
    At 6'3", this is the difference between a miserable and pleasant flying experience. And if you don't want to pay the extra fee usually charged, immediately go to the counter and request it. Usually there are exit-row seats that nobody paid for and they'll give it to you.

dman 16y ago

Why cant a flight be like a bar with a pool table and darts or at least fps fragfests on lan?

Anon84 16y ago
Three words: "flying cue balls" (As soon as you hit turbulence)