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Facebook acquires anonymous teen compliment app tbh, will let it run
- quintin 9y agoIts time to remind everyone that Facebook owns Onavo[1][2] and before any investor realizes, will pick up a product that hits their metrics threshold and buy them out. [1] https://www.wsj.com/articles/facebooks-onavo-gives-social-media-firm-inside-peek-at-rivals-users-1502622003 https://www.wsj.com/articles/facebooks-onavo-gives-social-me... [2] https://twitter.com/dhh/status/900893798821134336?lang=en https://twitter.com/dhh/status/900893798821134336?lang=en
- htormey 9y agoThis is a really good point. I don't think this is necessarily a bad acquisition at all. Onavo is basically Facebooks eye of sauron: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onavo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onavo TBH has been in the top 10 free apps for a few weeks now. FB has a good track record of buying small teams with good engagement numbers and letting them run themselves (Whatsapp/Instagram). I'm sure Facebook looked at their numbers via Onavo and decided they were on a pretty good trajectory. Also, it should be noted that TBH doesn't even have an Android app yet. The question now is will TBH turn out to be more of a draw with friends (flash in the pan game) or have staying power like Bitmoji does. Bitmoji was purchased by Snap Inc for around 100 million about a year ago. It has managed to consistently stay in the top 10 free apps since then: https://techcrunch.com/2016/03/29/snapmoji/ https://techcrunch.com/2016/03/29/snapmoji/
- ghostly_s 9y ago> TBH has been in the top 10 free apps for a few weeks now. FB has a good track record of buying small teams with good engagement numbers and letting them run themselves (Whatsapp/Instagram). I can't comment on Whatsapp but I don't think this is an accurate description of Instagram. It took them a while, sure, but today they are most definitely asserting their control as overlords of Instagram even if they 'run themselves'.
- Xunxi 9y agoI've never heard of this before, is there an honest review of Onavo out there other than bait for data collection?
- fasteddie 9y agoWe used to use them at a previous job -- they had a data product that would tell you what add networks competitor apps were using, their estimated market share in impressions, and what their ad creative was. Was a very useful research tool for digital marketing.
- hobofan 9y agoDoes Facebook even need Onavo for that? AFAIK any Android app can check which other apps are installed and the names of all other running processes, with little to no permissions. And since the main Facebook app is installed on most devices they can use that to gather the data. Not sure how accurate it is in comparison, but it definitely has a wider reach.
- pavlov 9y agoI guess the point is that owning Onavo gives them access to data about users who specifically are not actively using Facebook -- which is obviously the space where FB would be looking to do defensive acquisitions.
- guelo 9y agoAnalytics is the free-social-network type product for app developers. Developers know they are giving all their valuable private data to the behemoths but they can't resist the few crumbs of value that they're given in return.
- mcintyre1994 9y agoThis is always interesting when it’s pointed out, but are teenagers in US high schools really using a fake security spyware VPN in high enough volume to give Facebook useful data? Now that I say that, I wonder if they’ve tried marketing it to clueless people via their apps by touting it as a way to improve the security of their accounts or something.
- cududa 9y agoEven back in middle school in the early 2000's, credentials to bypass the web blocker or address to a proxy that hadn't been blacklisted yet was a hot commodity - they were mostly sold/ distributed by entirely non-technical kids too.
- untog 9y agoYes but that was back in the day of locked down desktop machines. Teens have smartphones now, they don't have to care about that.
- htormey 9y agoThis article is dated and I’ve never used Onavo myself but I think the pitch is it saves you money on your data plan: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.imore.com/onavo-app-claims-shrink-iphones-data-usage-save-money%3famp https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.imore.com/onavo-app-claims-... Teenagers are pretty cheap so I can see the appeal if that’s still true.
- markdown 9y agoYou'd think the kind of people who use HN would know better than to share AMP urls. I refuse to click on that URL.
- if_by_whisky 9y agoHN is a diverse community with many views.
- quintin 9y agoMore: firms like Sequoia and Accel have tools/or buy similar data. But the more significant point is, Facebook has a pulse on the market and can compete or buy out anyone the moment they see trends that have a considerable potential. This is a paranoia acquisition to kill a future competitor. If this works, and I think it will under FB’s strong leadership, its a win win for the tbh founders and FB. If you care for a non-monopolistic future where privacy is valued, go work for Snapchat and push some sense into them; diversify and acquire companies like this to compete with FB (Even if you don’t like Snapchat).
- codeisawesome 9y agoHow is a Facebook-Snapchat duopoly better than a Facebook monopoly? Is that the best humanity can do in terms of designing these systems?
- jordan801 9y agoI feel like the subtle pseudo-gratification from this app is not going to make teens happier. Rather, they'll subconsciously realize that it's all a facade and it'll make them even less happy. We're going to keep creating this crap, I am sure, but lets just not label it with, "We're trying to make the world better". You're an app company, not a collective of teen health PHDs seeking to thwart teen's hormonal, depressive tenancies.
- AndrewKemendo 9y agoRather, they'll subconsciously realize that it's all a facade and it'll make them even less happy. I'm listening to the great book iGen [1] and it lays out very clearly, with empirical, longitudinal, multifaceted research, that social media apps unquestionably make teens more anxious and less happy. [1]http://www.simonandschuster.com/books/iGen/Jean-M-Twenge/9781501151989 http://www.simonandschuster.com/books/iGen/Jean-M-Twenge/978...
- joezydeco 9y agoMy son asked for approval on this app just this morning and I had red flags waving all around my head as I read the description. Learning that Facebook is now involved is just icing on the cake.
- TheAdamAndChe 9y agoThat's possible, but it's tough to say what kind of effect this will have on them. Humans didn't evolve in an environment that had the internet, and social media increases exposure to both the good and bad sides of life more than ever before. The issue is that humans respond more to negative emotions than positive ones, driving depression and suicide rates up. I think the jury's still out on apps like this that try to foster a positive emotional environment while limiting the negative. If faux positivity was bad for us, then sites like 4chan would foster a good mental status. I think it should be obvious that it doesn't.
- Spivak 9y agoLess cynically, you might be right, but I hope it actually works. There's nothing wrong with trying to make something positive. There's http://www.rethinkwords.com/ http://www.rethinkwords.com/ which actually has data backing up that it works.
- faded242 9y agoMy middle school aged daughter wanted this installed on her phone the other day. I said no way. The last thing she needs her electronic devices doing is serving up tinder for kids, leaving her obsessing over popularity contests, or another avenue for anonymous bullying.
- pwaai 9y agoI'm appalled that everybody carries around a real time yearbook. High school seems to never end. I shudder the effect this app will have on the self esteem of the user. We didn't know tobacco was harmful back when everybody was doing it. We didn't know cocaine was harmful back when it was the thing. We also don't know about the sort of damage and stress of the human psyche with these engineered digital toxins.
- avree 9y agoFacebook is nothing like a "real-time yearbook", though.
- sidlls 9y agoI think it's actually quite an apt metaphor. Yearbooks are a collection of snapshots-in-time and the kind of trite social cache signalling of shallow observations and pseudo-intellectual "deep" insights about who's going to make what of themselves that only an immature, ignorant, inexperienced kid can make. That's exactly what Facebook is: a forum for the most trite kinds of social engagement and signalling.
- patejam 9y ago...Or it's just a site to keep up with friends through messenger, events, pictures, etc? You just have to do a bit of work to filter out the crap from your timeline (unfollow/unfriending)
- markyuckerberg 9y ago
- minimaxir 9y agoTwitter has been justifiably snarky about the news that Facebook bought another short-term viral app for the users: “this smacks of engagement desperation” https://twitter.com/mikeisaac/status/920021423703310336 https://twitter.com/mikeisaac/status/920021423703310336
- 734786710934 9y agoThe same people said the same thing about Instagram and WhatsApp.
- untog 9y agoDid they? I remember people balking at the price of Whatsapp but not the actual of buying it, it was widely seen as a huge benefit to Facebook.
- Spivak 9y agoAt least those apps try to dress up the endorphin dispensary. This app is literally communal masturbation.
- stevenwoo 9y agoI thought one of the main things about Whatsapp was the huge audience and the demographics of that audience skewed young, and this app while not quite the install base size of Whatsapp/Instagram is ppoular with young folks. The demographics is the one they teach in Psych 101 as the most crucial point at which marketing can influence lifelong brand choices. The tweet snark seems to miss the point altogether.
- asdfhhre434 9y agoYou think people would go on Twitter and sling mud based upon nothing? Cause I do. Outsiders with a bias peddling FUD are truly the best sources.
- rconti 9y agoWell, that's ironic.
- 9y ago
- unpwn 9y agoNice write up on focusing on "postivity focus" and "helping teens' mental health" but seems like just another app training teens to seek social validation via an app...
- stevenwoo 9y agoI am trying to figure out why Facebook didn't just clone the features and add anonymous friend polls to their app/website (which I assume is definitely going to happen now in spite of the press release.)
- untog 9y agoLike when Facebook made their "Poke" app to compete with Snapchat and it failed miserably? Facebook is like a telephone directory to teens. You're in it, but you don't care for it. For want of a better term, it just isn't cool. Of course it isn't, your parents are on there.
- adventured 9y agoIf you mean clone the features over to Facebook.... It's because Facebook is unpopular with teens. That's a demographic Facebook has increasingly lost as it pertains to usage (they still sign-up, because of the vague pressure that everyone must have an account). If it weren't for Instagram, they'd be in deep shit with people under ~25 and very susceptible to being replaced or having their monopoly fractured (the 16-25 group would seed competitors, one of which would eventually kill Facebook starting from that base and progressing up).
- stevenwoo 9y agoIt seems to me that Facebook has the age data and could have just targeted those age groups exclusively with the feature, and hidden it from the uncool age groups. Maybe they tried it and it didn't get any traction and that's why they did the purchase.
- dx034 9y agoEvery teenager seeks social validation. That's not something Facebook or instagram invented, it's in the nature of all humans and especially those of younger age. This app found a way to create anonymity (for the user) while preventing bullying which is a problem with most other apps. I think it's a good idea. I really doubt that this will make teens spend more time on their smartphone than they already do. The worst thing that can happen is that someone signs up and gets no "badge". But even that seems unlikely if enough people use it.
- quadrangle 9y agoThis isn't improving mental health, it's just destroying it in a different way than negativity destroys it. Sure, we all want social approval, but this sort of thing is about creating a system to depend on. It seems designed just like other social media, aiming to cause people to feel a need for TBH approval and a social obligation to participate in showing your approval of others. People should drop the entire concept of caring about aspects of their identify as fixed traits such as those TBH focuses on. Having a nice smile (or not) or being viewed as the most talented at whatever skill are traits that are phrased as fixed judgments of a person. Instead, we need to focus on acknowledging success for particular actions and recognizing the potential for growth in areas where we can improve. See (e.g.) http://malcolmocean.com/2014/07/growth-mindset-reframing/ http://malcolmocean.com/2014/07/growth-mindset-reframing/ TBH is more likely to lead to dysfunctional fixed mindsets than to inspire anyone to do anything good or feel good about themselves in a healthy growth-focused way.
- atomical 9y agoShould self worth be tied to success at all?
- quadrangle 9y agoWell, a basic sense of dignity as a human being should certainly not be tied to success. But the important point is that the best way to think about failure and success is as simply facts about what happened. You failed. You succeeded. The problems with fixed mindset relates to treating success as an indication of your self-worth. Doing that means that failure is a rejection of your self-worth. That leads to people fearing failure and thus avoiding taking on risky challenges they may fail at. And yet growth comes from being willing to fail and to persist in the face of failure etc. If I fail at expressing myself clearly in a comment like this, it's better to acknowledge it and think "that comment failed" and think about how to succeed better next time… (I could go on, but I'm not going to invest more time in this comment right now)
- jpttsn 9y ago
- diogenescynic 9y agoBig freaking deal... This is simply PR for all the nastiness they've released into the world and damage to our democracy. The world would be better off without Facebook.
- quadrangle 9y agoI think you miss the point. It's newsworthy, not positive. This is not news about FB doing something good, this is news about FB continuing to harm the world still further. Of course, the world would be better of without FB and also without TBH.
- dizzystar 9y agoThis app reminds me of the Black Mirror episode "Nosedive." I know I shouldn't be so down on this.
- quadrangle 9y agoWhy shouldn't you be down on it? TBH, from the description in the article, is horrible and deserves being seen negatively.
- perydell 9y agoThis app held the attention of the kids in the middle school and high school near me for about 7 days. Then they got bored of it and all stopped playing.
- cwkoss 9y agoSounds like founders made a good call on acquisition :-P
- Invictus0 9y agoA hundred million here, a hundred million there: who cares? It's way cheaper for FB to buy up these small social media companies than wait around until they become big competitors. If it fails, so what? It's worth it to ensure their market dominance.
- PinkMilkshake 9y agoThis could be a data mining wet dream. They have found a way to make filling out surveys addictive. It seems all you had to do was present it in a fun way and make sure the surveys are about other people. I wouldn't be surprised if the questions start shifting towards things that could be used to market to people. Imagine if all of John Smiths friends say he is "Most likely to skip work to play a videogame". It wouldn't matter if John had ever mentioned video games on his profile.
- NumberCruncher 9y ago>> “If we’re improving the mental health of millions of teens, that’s a success to us.” Amplifying attention bitching is a good deed again.
- mannigfaltig 9y agoEww.
- cfitz 9y agoFrom a capitalistic point-of-view, congrats to Midnight Labs for successfully repeatedly pivoting until something stuck. From a cultural point-of-view, I'm afraid for my (future) kids.
- aqsheehy 9y agoAnonymous compliments seem nice to me, am I missing something?
- quadrangle 9y agoYou're missing very nearly everything. Even anonymous compliments are not just nice. They can be awkward or add to self-consciousness or to self-absorbed narcissism. It all depends on the details. A sincere, meaningful compliment about some actual achievement (as opposed to some random trait that is fixed) can be wonderful. TBH has none of that though. But TBH does have a lot of bad things that normal anonymous compliments never have. When anonymous compliments require signing up for a service just to get anonymous compliments from your peers with the understanding that you do the same, you create an entire social context where all the benefits of an actually natural complement are eliminated and replaced with an addictive, data-mining and actually negative for mental health situation.
- Sir_Cmpwn 9y agoWhen are we going to have a legislative crack down on psychologically abusive software? It's not just this, though it's a particularly egregious example. Facebook itself is a huge online predator.
- musage 9y agoNo thanks, people like their abuse systematic and shiny. When everybody becomes more pathological, nobody becomes more pathological.
- Margaret-mayu 9y ago？
- vit05 9y agoI was working on an app that used a lot of emojis. And searching for similar design app, tbh came to my attention. It was really similar to what I was doing in term of design using strong colors and a big emoji. But the idea was totally different. Teens and Kids really love this combination. And the app is simple and fast, It is like play a game. You could imagine kids playing and smiling.
- mtgx 9y agoYeah, I'm sure it will maintain the same separation as it did with WhatsApp...oh wait, no it didn't. This "anonymous" app won't be anonymous much longer. And it will probably happen at least a year before they actually announce it, just as it did with WhatsApp.
- qume 9y agoThe SEC regulates anticompetitive moves. Sounds like we need a new body which regulates creepy predator companies like facebook going after kids.
- dragonwriter 9y ago> The SEC regulates anticompetitive moves. Actually, that's the FTC. The SEC regulates securities trading. > Sounds like we need a new body which regulates creepy predator companies like facebook going after kids. With appropriate statutory authority, that sounds like it would also be a good fit for the FTC. Even if new law is needed, why a new regulatory body?
- ionised 9y agoSeems like a step towards that Black Mirror episode, Nosedive; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nosedive https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nosedive I don't see this as a positive app at all., It's just reinforcing shallow and unhealthy behaviour.
- riot504 9y agoWant to know what will improve teen health, going back to not having to worry what every other teen thinks about you. I remember when my parents attempted to give me a cell-phone at 17. I politely said no thank you, I don't want you being able to contact me at anytime. I want to be in the moment. I didn't take photos or update anything in real-time, I didn't update people after the fact either, we just lived in the moment then moved on. Mind you this was 18 - 20 years ago.