13 ms·

I'll go further than this. USB-C isn't misguided, problematic or questionable. It's insanity. Take a given cable and there's a number of dimensions you need to

by cletus 9y ago

I'll go further than this. USB-C isn't misguided, problematic or questionable. It's insanity. Take a given cable and there's a number of dimensions you need to considered: - Supported power standards (none, USB, various other wattages and standards) - Supported bandwidth. I think some don't even support data transfer (which might include the USB-C cable that comes with the Apple Macbook charger) - Supported modes (USB, Thunderbolt, DisplayPort?) There's no colour scheme that can adequately handle all the possible variations. But there are other problems: it makes no sense to have all 4 ports on a 15" Macbook Pro (for example) support power. You only need one port to charge with. I think I read that not all the ports on the 13" Macbook Pro are the same (in terms of capabilities). This is just strikes me as a (hollow) victory for principle ("one port/cable to rule them all") over pragmatism. This always reminds me of the quote: a foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds. This whole thing is expensive, unnecessary, user-unfriendly and confusing (to the average user).

petercooper 9y ago
You only need one port to charge with. Different strokes. Being able to charge on either side is one of the biggest usability wins of the new MBP to me.
- cletus 9y ago
  And this is the same Macbook Pro that for reasons that I can't fathom moved the headphone jack to the right side despite every (single) headphone cable going to the left can. Go figure.
  - mdonahoe 9y ago
    Enjoy that headphone jack while it lasts!
  - wallacoloo 9y ago
    > every (single) headphone cable going to the left can. FWIW a number of studio headphones support plugging in a cable to either can rather than restricting you to just the left one, if you want to go that route. V-moda sells a few pairs like this and denotes the feature as "dual inputs".
    - seller_door 9y ago
      It's still annoying if you're right handed and trying to write something by hand on paper in front of the laptop.
      - korzun 9y ago
        Route the cable around
      - smallnamespace 9y ago
        Get an extension and just route it around the back.
        ianhowson 9y ago
        Bonus: if you get up from your desk while wearing headphones, you don't have to worry about pausing or muting the audio. The laptop thinks you're still plugged in.
  - sneak 9y ago
    the best wireless bluetooth headphones, the sennheiser momentum wireless 2s, have their cord (when in wired mode) coming from the right, which is disconcerting but convenient for this one particular use case.
  - kbenson 9y ago
    Can't you reverse the left/right channels in the OS? That seems like a simple solution if possible (I just looked it up and it looks like it was easy to do a few years ago, so maybe it still is).
    - DanBC 9y ago
      I think they're talking about the physical cable, not the signal path. https://imgur.com/a/3cJP2 https://imgur.com/a/3cJP2
      - deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
      - kbenson 9y ago
        I understand, but if you reverse the channels, you can wear the headphones reversed. Depending on the physical design of the headphones, this may not may not be feasible (if each side conforms to that ear). If it is feasible and you can reverse the headphones and reverse the channels, problem solved, as long as you remember to wear them reversed.
        adrusi 9y ago
        I don't know if I've ever seen headphones that are reversible like that. Sounds very uncomfortable.
        kbenson 9y ago
        I think most earbuds are easily reversible. Over the ear ones might feel a little odd, but I suspect most that took the effort to be comfortable in a normal configuration (that is, have some flexibility) would be serviceable. In-ear headsets and earbuds that have an around the ear component probably wouldn't work at all.
    - et-al 9y ago
      The issue is most people use the mouse on the right side, so the headphone cable gets in that area. This was a total amateur mistake by Apple.
  - Girlang 9y ago
    In general, kids today don't care if their headphones are on backwards.
- neverminder 9y ago
  I had that in 2015 on my Pixel LS - first laptop ever to have 2 USB Type-C ports. Over my dead body I'm going back to proprietary power charger/port.
Zigurd 9y ago
These differences are also not exposed in a user-friendly way: I know I have to plug the charger cable directly into my MacBook, and I know, in broad terms, why. But there's no alert telling a naive user they can't (actually they can, but shouldn't) plug it into a dongle and plug the dongle into the MacBook. It appears to work. Eventually you might discover that it works poorly. It's a fake simplicity. Not putting device-specific charging into USB-C would address many of the hidden gotchas, and would have maintained the cleverness of mag safe charger plugs. At best you can say you won't damage equipment in the process of discovering the quirks of USB-C. Except, of course, for the cheap not-up-to-spec cables that might cause damage.
- mbpuser7777 9y ago
  Could explain why you need to plug power directly into your MacBook Pro or MacBook? I use both, and was unaware of this. Any source would be super helpful too.
  - jks 9y ago
    You may not get the full wattage through a dongle. For example, the Satechi adapter with pass-through charging (recommended by The Wirecutter at https://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-usb-c-adapters-cables-and-hubs/ https://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-usb-c-adapters-cables...) is limited to 49W: go to https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B01J4BO0X8/ https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B01J4BO0X8/ and search for "Important Notes". 49 watts may be enough for many uses, but (as I discovered recently) not when running a job on all the cores of a 15" MacBook Pro. Now, presumably the designer of this dongle had some reason to limit the power output. Perhaps the heat dissipation is not enough (the dongle gets pretty hot even when using it just for USB and HDMI). What if some other manufacturer is not so careful and allows negotiating more power through a similar device?
  - Zigurd 9y ago
    My MBP wants an 87 watt USB-C charger. If you read the product page for the charger, it recommends plugging directly into the MBP's USB-C ports. When I tried charging through the dongle, the battery would charge slowly, or drain a bit when, for example, running gradle builds.
jotm 9y ago
Imo it makes all the sense to have all ports provide the power necessary for fast charging. I really hope you didn't mean no power at all.
madeofpalk 9y ago
> it makes no sense to have all 4 ports on a 15" Macbook Pro (for example) support power I actually see this as a feature. What would be insane if only one special port supported power. That would just be confusing.
- gka_ 9y ago
  not if you put a little lightning icon right next to it. that would be just like the world used to be the past 10 years.
- ethanwillis 9y ago
  If that's confusing.. you may not have the mental capacity to be using a computer in the first place.
- rangibaby 9y ago
  The USB ports on my 2013. MacBook Pro retina are like that. One side gets more power than the other. It is confusing.
  - jeromenerf 9y ago
    Right hand side is always on, even when the computer is asleep. There is actually a convenient color code, at least on thinkpads, where black means usb2, yellow means alwayson and blue means usb3.
    - Too 9y ago
      Colors on the exterior of a macbook? Hell will freeze over before that happens. (The color code is universal btw, not just on thinkpads)
    - kyrias 9y ago
      The newer ones don't have the color coding anymore, they're all just black, and the always-on ones have an additional symbol under the SS<USB> symbol.
iClaudiusX 9y ago
> This whole thing is expensive, unnecessary, user-unfriendly and confusing (to the average user). And yet, very profitable for the companies rolling it out so poorly, who can charge more for products featuring the new ports and nickel-and-dime us with expensive adapters, dongles, and cables to replace the perfectly functional USB-A ecosystem. It's quite a clever trick they've managed to pull on their customers -- convincing us all our problems can be hand-waved away with a single, forceful utterance of "it's the future", thus relegating any criticism to "whining and moaning" about first-world problems. That even Apple can't manage to simplify the mess within its own laptop line, let alone tablets and phones, is indicative of how poorly thought out this whole idea was from the start. They seem to have a device for just about every combination of incompatibility that is possible. The goal was noble: - provide enough power to charge an external device and ditch the bulky power supply and second cable - support extremely high-speed devices like monitors and SSDs - standardize the connector with a slimmer, symmetric design So far it's been an utter failure of execution.
digi_owl 9y ago
Oh so much this. Never mind that with the older plugs, the cables were basically passive. But now there has to be special resistors in them to signal what kind of power delivery they can handle, and oh so many companies get it wrong. Because there is also a special resistor that need to be used if you have a A to C cable, that overrules all the others. It is frankly a fire hazard waiting to happen.
crote 9y ago
Insanity seems to be the right word for USB-C. Let's imagine you buy a new monitor, which has a usb-c port. Fortunately, your device also has a usb-c port so it will just work, right? Well, that monitor could support at least the following protocols over that cable: - Displayport, obviously. - HDMI, because that might be useful in some cases. - MHL Alternate Mode for USB 3.1, which is not-quite-HDMI. - USB itself, like the external mini video cards created by DisplayLink - PCI-E, as the monitor could contain any regular video card. Unlikely, but technically possible. Is the monitor going to work when plugged into your laptop? What about your phone? Will it charge either of those? I'm not sure how this has managed to gone this horribly wrong, but somehow "supports usb-c" has become completely meaningless. Oh, and it can also support analog audio as well! And if anyone thinks I'm exaggerating, please tell me which devices do and which do not work with this "usb-c to vga" adapter, because to me it is literally impossible to tell: http://www.belkin.com/uk/p/P-F2CU037/ http://www.belkin.com/uk/p/P-F2CU037/
- stormbeta 9y ago
  Yep - there's no obvious way to tell what accessories will work together anymore. My Switch is another great example. It won't even charge with some of my adapters, and I had to get a C -> HDMI splitter that was designed specifically for the Switch, despite the fact that Nintendo isn't even using any proprietary protocols (just less common ones).
- abrowne 9y ago
  I could also be Thunderbolt, the like the LG 27-inch that Apple sells.
- andrepd 9y ago
  In other words, they're still different ports (for all practical purposes), they just all have the same connector shape (which makes it harder, not easier, for the reasons you mention).
  - kbenson 9y ago
    Put that way, I'm not entirely sure it's worse. Coming from a world where the connector helped you determine what you could do, it seems worse, but that's because we've all internalized the cost of not having the right cable and having to buy different cables for everything. Having a cable that works for most things (if you were lucky enough to buy a good cable, and I'll freely admit that is a clusterfuck of planning) leaves you with just having to know if your ports will work together. That seems solvable, even if it's not currently solved. I think we're a step closer to the dream of a simplified connector ecosystem, even if we aren't quite there yet.
fishywang 9y ago
How is that USB-C's fault? There are mini-DisplayPort and Thunderbolt 1 ports look the same, and no one complained about it. There are different capabilities on USB-A ports, and Apple never marked their USB-A ports blue, and no one complained about it. The alternative is like, what, we settle all the capabilities this port can have, and say that's it, we cannot add new capabilities to this port to confuse consumers, we must use a new port for new capabilities? The 13" MBP have non-equal USB-C ports, if true, is totally Apple's fault. I'm actually surprised at why nobody have sued Apple for misguiding their customers (I don't think Apple disclosed that not all ports on 13" MBP has all the capabilities they bragged about).
- bhj 9y ago
  > The 13" MBP have non-equal USB-C ports, if true, is totally Apple's fault. Isn't it Intel's fault given the limited number of PCIe lanes on their dual core CPUs? > I don't think Apple disclosed that not all ports on 13" MBP has all the capabilities they bragged about It's noted here: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207256 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207256
  - FireBeyond 9y ago
    That's close to "in the basement in the disused lavatory". Search "macbook thunderbolt pci" on Google? It's nowhere in sight by page 3... Search "thunderbolt pci" on support.apple.com? It's result 8, after info about connecting TB displays, network adapters, cables, and so on. Yes it's there, but let's not pretend Apple is going out of their way to note it.
    - bhj 9y ago
      > Search "macbook thunderbolt pci" on Google? It's nowhere in sight by page 3... With "macbook pro 13" thunderbolt speed" it's the very first result (for me at least) In any case, no, they aren't going out of their way, nor should they IMO. I think that would confuse many more people than the amount that are looking specifically to use > 2 full-bandwidth Thunderbolt connections at once on a dual core machine. I'd wager that > 95% are going to be happy they have two extra 10Gbps USB and charge ports.
WalterBright 9y ago
I'd be happy with a port that can accept a plug right side up or upside down. I get tired of peering at the back of my computer with a flashlight trying to figure out which way to put it in.
- lmm 9y ago
  Erm, that's one of the few things USB-C got right.
  - WalterBright 9y ago
    It's about time. RS-232, parallel, VGA, USB, SATA, IDE, HDMI, keyboard, mouse, and on and on.
    - oneeyedpigeon 9y ago
      Audio equipment, on the other hand, tended to get this one right.
      - Godel_unicode 9y ago
        You've clearly never tried to connect xlr, midi, or twist-lock cables in the dark.
        4ad 9y ago
        Still better than USB-A. Usually I can rotate them until they fit. USB-A, not so much.
        sjwright 9y ago
        XLR sockets are oriented consistently, and the cables have a distinct tactile notch at their 12 o'clock position. I agree, MIDI is a bit shit. Twist-lock appears to be a USA-specific thing.
- myrandomcomment 9y ago
pixelcloud 9y ago
We should just stamp a tiny QR code on each cable end! Then we can use our smartphones and a special USBC app !! /s
Razengan 9y ago
> it makes no sense to have all 4 ports on a 15" Macbook Pro (for example) support power. You only need one port to charge with. > This whole thing is expensive, unnecessary, user-unfriendly and confusing (to the average user). Please don't assume to speak for everyone. Being able to charge from any port from either side is very convenient, modern, and I love it.
- ComputerGuru 9y ago
  Really? Any port from either side? With more than one port next to each other per side, you need the option of being able to charge from all the ports and not just the backmost on each side?
  - oneeyedpigeon 9y ago
    That's the ideal, isn't it, assuming it's even possible: a number of ports (2/4/6?) on your laptop, each of which you can plug any peripheral into, whether it's a monitor, power supply, hard drive, or keyboard. This, as far as I'm concerned, is best for the user: no thinking, no struggle, just plug things in and they work. This was the promise of usb-c - at least, that's what many of us thought was the promise. Now we're finding out reality isn't quite up to it. And it's far worse for people who, naturally, assume if the plug fits, it'll work. Maybe that ideal is impossible, or financially prohibitive. Usb-c implies it isn't, though.
    - izacus 9y ago
      Why isn't really up to it though? It works exactly like that on modern Macs - whatever you plug into whichever USB-C port will work. Worst case scenario is that your ultra-high-speed TB3 RAID array will work ever so slightly on the left hand side ports, but it'll still work and it'll still be plenty fast. And I understand that USB-C ports on other highend laptops are the same? They support TB3, HDMI, DP and other alternate modes so this will quickly become a moot point, just like having to differentiate between USB 1.1 and USB2.0 ports?
inopinatus 9y ago
This is not much harder the the issue of 8P8C connectors. Depending on cable configuration, pinout, wall plate and structured wiring system, that 8P8C might be usable (or not) for multiple different types of data networking, from the assorted ethernet speeds to E1 to token ring, or for a serial console, or delivering power and audio to a remote speaker, or hdmi-over-utp, or even -48V telephony, and let's not even get started on the only-subtly-different but actually incompatible RJ45S connector, or people sticking RJ11 plugs in 8P8C ports. And yet the world has coped with this proliferation.
softwarefounder 9y ago
Unnecessary tech yields contrived work. (i.e. job security / pay)
Dylan16807 9y ago
> There's no colour scheme that can adequately handle all the possible variations. For cables, you can whittle it down to two things. Bandwidth, and whether it supports 3 amps or 5 amps. Supported modes is a function of signal bandwidth. 5 amp can be a little power icon, and bandwidth only needs about 3-4 options. So most cables would only have a bandwidth rating. For ports I agree that it's much too complicated.
Qwertious 9y ago
Sounds like USB-C needs to standardise.
kybernetikos 9y ago
different physical characteristics for different capabilities is actually a good thing
the8472 9y ago
> There's no colour scheme that can adequately handle all the possible variations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_color_code https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_color_code

by cletus 9y ago

petercooper 9y ago

You only need one port to charge with. Different strokes. Being able to charge on either side is one of the biggest usability wins of the new MBP to me.

cletus 9y ago
And this is the same Macbook Pro that for reasons that I can't fathom moved the headphone jack to the right side despite every (single) headphone cable going to the left can. Go figure.
- mdonahoe 9y ago
  Enjoy that headphone jack while it lasts!
- wallacoloo 9y ago
  > every (single) headphone cable going to the left can. FWIW a number of studio headphones support plugging in a cable to either can rather than restricting you to just the left one, if you want to go that route. V-moda sells a few pairs like this and denotes the feature as "dual inputs".
  - seller_door 9y ago
    It's still annoying if you're right handed and trying to write something by hand on paper in front of the laptop.
    - korzun 9y ago
      Route the cable around
    - smallnamespace 9y ago
      Get an extension and just route it around the back.
      - ianhowson 9y ago
        Bonus: if you get up from your desk while wearing headphones, you don't have to worry about pausing or muting the audio. The laptop thinks you're still plugged in.
- sneak 9y ago
  the best wireless bluetooth headphones, the sennheiser momentum wireless 2s, have their cord (when in wired mode) coming from the right, which is disconcerting but convenient for this one particular use case.
- kbenson 9y ago
  Can't you reverse the left/right channels in the OS? That seems like a simple solution if possible (I just looked it up and it looks like it was easy to do a few years ago, so maybe it still is).
  - DanBC 9y ago
    I think they're talking about the physical cable, not the signal path. https://imgur.com/a/3cJP2 https://imgur.com/a/3cJP2
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
    - kbenson 9y ago
      I understand, but if you reverse the channels, you can wear the headphones reversed. Depending on the physical design of the headphones, this may not may not be feasible (if each side conforms to that ear). If it is feasible and you can reverse the headphones and reverse the channels, problem solved, as long as you remember to wear them reversed.
      - adrusi 9y ago
        I don't know if I've ever seen headphones that are reversible like that. Sounds very uncomfortable.
        kbenson 9y ago
        I think most earbuds are easily reversible. Over the ear ones might feel a little odd, but I suspect most that took the effort to be comfortable in a normal configuration (that is, have some flexibility) would be serviceable. In-ear headsets and earbuds that have an around the ear component probably wouldn't work at all.
  - et-al 9y ago
    The issue is most people use the mouse on the right side, so the headphone cable gets in that area. This was a total amateur mistake by Apple.
- Girlang 9y ago
  In general, kids today don't care if their headphones are on backwards.
neverminder 9y ago
I had that in 2015 on my Pixel LS - first laptop ever to have 2 USB Type-C ports. Over my dead body I'm going back to proprietary power charger/port.

Zigurd 9y ago

These differences are also not exposed in a user-friendly way: I know I have to plug the charger cable directly into my MacBook, and I know, in broad terms, why. But there's no alert telling a naive user they can't (actually they can, but shouldn't) plug it into a dongle and plug the dongle into the MacBook. It appears to work. Eventually you might discover that it works poorly. It's a fake simplicity. Not putting device-specific charging into USB-C would address many of the hidden gotchas, and would have maintained the cleverness of mag safe charger plugs. At best you can say you won't damage equipment in the process of discovering the quirks of USB-C. Except, of course, for the cheap not-up-to-spec cables that might cause damage.

mbpuser7777 9y ago
Could explain why you need to plug power directly into your MacBook Pro or MacBook? I use both, and was unaware of this. Any source would be super helpful too.
- jks 9y ago
  You may not get the full wattage through a dongle. For example, the Satechi adapter with pass-through charging (recommended by The Wirecutter at https://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-usb-c-adapters-cables-and-hubs/ https://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-usb-c-adapters-cables...) is limited to 49W: go to https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B01J4BO0X8/ https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B01J4BO0X8/ and search for "Important Notes". 49 watts may be enough for many uses, but (as I discovered recently) not when running a job on all the cores of a 15" MacBook Pro. Now, presumably the designer of this dongle had some reason to limit the power output. Perhaps the heat dissipation is not enough (the dongle gets pretty hot even when using it just for USB and HDMI). What if some other manufacturer is not so careful and allows negotiating more power through a similar device?
- Zigurd 9y ago
  My MBP wants an 87 watt USB-C charger. If you read the product page for the charger, it recommends plugging directly into the MBP's USB-C ports. When I tried charging through the dongle, the battery would charge slowly, or drain a bit when, for example, running gradle builds.

jotm 9y ago

Imo it makes all the sense to have all ports provide the power necessary for fast charging. I really hope you didn't mean no power at all.

madeofpalk 9y ago

> it makes no sense to have all 4 ports on a 15" Macbook Pro (for example) support power I actually see this as a feature. What would be insane if only one special port supported power. That would just be confusing.

gka_ 9y ago
not if you put a little lightning icon right next to it. that would be just like the world used to be the past 10 years.
ethanwillis 9y ago
If that's confusing.. you may not have the mental capacity to be using a computer in the first place.
rangibaby 9y ago
The USB ports on my 2013. MacBook Pro retina are like that. One side gets more power than the other. It is confusing.
- jeromenerf 9y ago
  Right hand side is always on, even when the computer is asleep. There is actually a convenient color code, at least on thinkpads, where black means usb2, yellow means alwayson and blue means usb3.
  - Too 9y ago
    Colors on the exterior of a macbook? Hell will freeze over before that happens. (The color code is universal btw, not just on thinkpads)
  - kyrias 9y ago
    The newer ones don't have the color coding anymore, they're all just black, and the always-on ones have an additional symbol under the SS<USB> symbol.

iClaudiusX 9y ago

> This whole thing is expensive, unnecessary, user-unfriendly and confusing (to the average user). And yet, very profitable for the companies rolling it out so poorly, who can charge more for products featuring the new ports and nickel-and-dime us with expensive adapters, dongles, and cables to replace the perfectly functional USB-A ecosystem. It's quite a clever trick they've managed to pull on their customers -- convincing us all our problems can be hand-waved away with a single, forceful utterance of "it's the future", thus relegating any criticism to "whining and moaning" about first-world problems. That even Apple can't manage to simplify the mess within its own laptop line, let alone tablets and phones, is indicative of how poorly thought out this whole idea was from the start. They seem to have a device for just about every combination of incompatibility that is possible. The goal was noble: - provide enough power to charge an external device and ditch the bulky power supply and second cable - support extremely high-speed devices like monitors and SSDs - standardize the connector with a slimmer, symmetric design So far it's been an utter failure of execution.

digi_owl 9y ago

Oh so much this. Never mind that with the older plugs, the cables were basically passive. But now there has to be special resistors in them to signal what kind of power delivery they can handle, and oh so many companies get it wrong. Because there is also a special resistor that need to be used if you have a A to C cable, that overrules all the others. It is frankly a fire hazard waiting to happen.

crote 9y ago

Insanity seems to be the right word for USB-C. Let's imagine you buy a new monitor, which has a usb-c port. Fortunately, your device also has a usb-c port so it will just work, right? Well, that monitor could support at least the following protocols over that cable: - Displayport, obviously. - HDMI, because that might be useful in some cases. - MHL Alternate Mode for USB 3.1, which is not-quite-HDMI. - USB itself, like the external mini video cards created by DisplayLink - PCI-E, as the monitor could contain any regular video card. Unlikely, but technically possible. Is the monitor going to work when plugged into your laptop? What about your phone? Will it charge either of those? I'm not sure how this has managed to gone this horribly wrong, but somehow "supports usb-c" has become completely meaningless. Oh, and it can also support analog audio as well! And if anyone thinks I'm exaggerating, please tell me which devices do and which do not work with this "usb-c to vga" adapter, because to me it is literally impossible to tell: http://www.belkin.com/uk/p/P-F2CU037/ http://www.belkin.com/uk/p/P-F2CU037/

stormbeta 9y ago
Yep - there's no obvious way to tell what accessories will work together anymore. My Switch is another great example. It won't even charge with some of my adapters, and I had to get a C -> HDMI splitter that was designed specifically for the Switch, despite the fact that Nintendo isn't even using any proprietary protocols (just less common ones).
abrowne 9y ago
I could also be Thunderbolt, the like the LG 27-inch that Apple sells.
andrepd 9y ago
In other words, they're still different ports (for all practical purposes), they just all have the same connector shape (which makes it harder, not easier, for the reasons you mention).
- kbenson 9y ago
  Put that way, I'm not entirely sure it's worse. Coming from a world where the connector helped you determine what you could do, it seems worse, but that's because we've all internalized the cost of not having the right cable and having to buy different cables for everything. Having a cable that works for most things (if you were lucky enough to buy a good cable, and I'll freely admit that is a clusterfuck of planning) leaves you with just having to know if your ports will work together. That seems solvable, even if it's not currently solved. I think we're a step closer to the dream of a simplified connector ecosystem, even if we aren't quite there yet.

fishywang 9y ago

How is that USB-C's fault? There are mini-DisplayPort and Thunderbolt 1 ports look the same, and no one complained about it. There are different capabilities on USB-A ports, and Apple never marked their USB-A ports blue, and no one complained about it. The alternative is like, what, we settle all the capabilities this port can have, and say that's it, we cannot add new capabilities to this port to confuse consumers, we must use a new port for new capabilities? The 13" MBP have non-equal USB-C ports, if true, is totally Apple's fault. I'm actually surprised at why nobody have sued Apple for misguiding their customers (I don't think Apple disclosed that not all ports on 13" MBP has all the capabilities they bragged about).

bhj 9y ago
> The 13" MBP have non-equal USB-C ports, if true, is totally Apple's fault. Isn't it Intel's fault given the limited number of PCIe lanes on their dual core CPUs? > I don't think Apple disclosed that not all ports on 13" MBP has all the capabilities they bragged about It's noted here: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207256 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207256
- FireBeyond 9y ago
  That's close to "in the basement in the disused lavatory". Search "macbook thunderbolt pci" on Google? It's nowhere in sight by page 3... Search "thunderbolt pci" on support.apple.com? It's result 8, after info about connecting TB displays, network adapters, cables, and so on. Yes it's there, but let's not pretend Apple is going out of their way to note it.
  - bhj 9y ago
    > Search "macbook thunderbolt pci" on Google? It's nowhere in sight by page 3... With "macbook pro 13" thunderbolt speed" it's the very first result (for me at least) In any case, no, they aren't going out of their way, nor should they IMO. I think that would confuse many more people than the amount that are looking specifically to use > 2 full-bandwidth Thunderbolt connections at once on a dual core machine. I'd wager that > 95% are going to be happy they have two extra 10Gbps USB and charge ports.

WalterBright 9y ago

I'd be happy with a port that can accept a plug right side up or upside down. I get tired of peering at the back of my computer with a flashlight trying to figure out which way to put it in.

lmm 9y ago
Erm, that's one of the few things USB-C got right.
- WalterBright 9y ago
  It's about time. RS-232, parallel, VGA, USB, SATA, IDE, HDMI, keyboard, mouse, and on and on.
  - oneeyedpigeon 9y ago
    Audio equipment, on the other hand, tended to get this one right.
    - Godel_unicode 9y ago
      You've clearly never tried to connect xlr, midi, or twist-lock cables in the dark.
      - 4ad 9y ago
        Still better than USB-A. Usually I can rotate them until they fit. USB-A, not so much.
      - sjwright 9y ago
        XLR sockets are oriented consistently, and the cables have a distinct tactile notch at their 12 o'clock position. I agree, MIDI is a bit shit. Twist-lock appears to be a USA-specific thing.
myrandomcomment 9y ago

pixelcloud 9y ago

We should just stamp a tiny QR code on each cable end! Then we can use our smartphones and a special USBC app !! /s

Razengan 9y ago

> it makes no sense to have all 4 ports on a 15" Macbook Pro (for example) support power. You only need one port to charge with. > This whole thing is expensive, unnecessary, user-unfriendly and confusing (to the average user). Please don't assume to speak for everyone. Being able to charge from any port from either side is very convenient, modern, and I love it.

ComputerGuru 9y ago
Really? Any port from either side? With more than one port next to each other per side, you need the option of being able to charge from all the ports and not just the backmost on each side?
- oneeyedpigeon 9y ago
  That's the ideal, isn't it, assuming it's even possible: a number of ports (2/4/6?) on your laptop, each of which you can plug any peripheral into, whether it's a monitor, power supply, hard drive, or keyboard. This, as far as I'm concerned, is best for the user: no thinking, no struggle, just plug things in and they work. This was the promise of usb-c - at least, that's what many of us thought was the promise. Now we're finding out reality isn't quite up to it. And it's far worse for people who, naturally, assume if the plug fits, it'll work. Maybe that ideal is impossible, or financially prohibitive. Usb-c implies it isn't, though.
  - izacus 9y ago
    Why isn't really up to it though? It works exactly like that on modern Macs - whatever you plug into whichever USB-C port will work. Worst case scenario is that your ultra-high-speed TB3 RAID array will work ever so slightly on the left hand side ports, but it'll still work and it'll still be plenty fast. And I understand that USB-C ports on other highend laptops are the same? They support TB3, HDMI, DP and other alternate modes so this will quickly become a moot point, just like having to differentiate between USB 1.1 and USB2.0 ports?

inopinatus 9y ago

This is not much harder the the issue of 8P8C connectors. Depending on cable configuration, pinout, wall plate and structured wiring system, that 8P8C might be usable (or not) for multiple different types of data networking, from the assorted ethernet speeds to E1 to token ring, or for a serial console, or delivering power and audio to a remote speaker, or hdmi-over-utp, or even -48V telephony, and let's not even get started on the only-subtly-different but actually incompatible RJ45S connector, or people sticking RJ11 plugs in 8P8C ports. And yet the world has coped with this proliferation.

softwarefounder 9y ago

Unnecessary tech yields contrived work. (i.e. job security / pay)

Dylan16807 9y ago

> There's no colour scheme that can adequately handle all the possible variations. For cables, you can whittle it down to two things. Bandwidth, and whether it supports 3 amps or 5 amps. Supported modes is a function of signal bandwidth. 5 amp can be a little power icon, and bandwidth only needs about 3-4 options. So most cables would only have a bandwidth rating. For ports I agree that it's much too complicated.

Qwertious 9y ago

Sounds like USB-C needs to standardise.

kybernetikos 9y ago

different physical characteristics for different capabilities is actually a good thing

the8472 9y ago

> There's no colour scheme that can adequately handle all the possible variations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_color_code https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_color_code