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Ask HN: UK Startups – Are You Thinking of Leaving the UK Because of Brexit?

• Jdam 9y ago
  I'll move to London in about one month from Berlin, because YOLO and they will have a deal anyways. In addition, those Brexit fears are overblown. UK leaves EU and apparently it's doomsday. Did it ever matter to anyone who considered a move there, that US/Canada/Norway/Israel/Australia/NZ/Switzerland/.. has never been part thereof? Was it a consideration in your decision? I bet it was not.
  • romanovcode 9y ago
    Can I ask why you decided to move from one of the cheapest startup-cities in EU to the most expensive one?
  • taway_1212 9y ago
    When you moved to US/Canada/Norway etc., you have secured your right to be there. Meanwhile, (depending on the details), Brexit can take away your right to work/stay in the UK.
  • Boothroid 9y ago
    I think the FUD is overdone also - whilst the UK has its problems, it is a wealthy, advanced nation and still an important part of the global economy, and will still have plenty going for it outside the EU.
  • m_t 9y ago
    > Was it a consideration in your decision? Yes, it was a very big part of my decision when moving to London that I didn't need a Visa to work here, contrary to the country I was residing in before. Yes it was a big part of my decision that I was free to change job, that I wasn't linked to an employer, that I didn't need to renew said visa it every X year, that my spouse could work with the same rights as me, etc.
  • dagw 9y ago
    UK leaves EU and apparently it's doomsday. UK leaving the EU isn't the main problem. UK leaving the EU in such a bizarrely unstructured and chaotic way without any plan in place is the problem.
    • mi100hael 9y ago
      How would one leave the EU if not via well-publicized popular vote and subsequent wind-down period? People only think it's chaotic and without plan because they assumed the vote wouldn't pass.
      • pjc50 9y ago
        People assume it's without a plan because there isn't a plan. It's still not clear what the government actually wants out of Brexit, and there were at least two Leave campaigns with very different and mostly fictional manifestoes.
      • perlgeek 9y ago
        The leaving party should have well thought-out positions for the exit negotiation. What happens to EU citizens living the in the country that wants to leave, and vice versa? What kind of international agreements and contracts should replace what the EU provides? What about obligations to retirement funds of (former) EU employees? There's a myriad of other questions to discuss, and given the number of states involved, two years is a very short time frame to settle them. The reporting I heard about the current brexit negotiations might be biased, but I get the impress that the British government doesn't even seem to have well-defined positions on most of these issues, which slows down the negotiations.
      • zimablue 9y ago
        No, it's because our civil service did no planning for this (in fact were explicitly not allowed to), have no infrastructure or skilled employees to negotiate it, and are fighting a constant battle of trying to inject the economic reality of Brexit into the heads of our MPs who refuse to hear it for political reasons. You can be for or against Brexit but if the rulers are pretending that it's not going to hurt if we lose trade access then we are in big trouble. Source - I know a civil servant who worked on EU stuff.
  • danmaz74 9y ago
    Do you realize the difference that just visas and work permits make?
    • Jdam 9y ago
      Yes I do. But I also know that if I commit to something, applying for a visa is an effort that's acceptable. Some years ago, I wanted to go to the US for a while and guess what - I got a visa and made it work.
      • dagw 9y ago
        Obviously there will still be lots of people who are committed to move to London and they will still move to London. The interesting thing will be what people who have gotten equally interesting job offers in several different cities and with no strong preference between the cities will do.
  • BjoernKW 9y ago
    The key difference is exactly that those have never been part of the EU. The problem isn't so much that the UK is leaving the EU but that the current government as well as other prominent Brexit figures don't have the foggiest idea how they're going to proceed. They have neither vision nor plan (other than "strong and stable", whatever that's supposed to mean) and that's quite a bit unsettling. The UK hasn't been conducting its own trade negotiations for decades now. They neither have the time nor the personnel required for having trade agreements in place by the time the UK is supposed to leave the EU if everything goes according to plan. It's not even clear if the UK can - as is commonly stated - easily fall back to WTO rules in case no agreement comes to pass because while the UK is member of the WTO that membership currently is contingent on its EU membership. So, while Brexit might not spell doomsday for the UK this completely haphazard approach of dealing with it doesn't exactly bode well either.
    • Jdam 9y ago
      > They have neither vision nor plan (other than "strong and stable", whatever that's supposed to mean) Sounds exactly what my current government (Merkel) is successfully doing for years now.
      • dagw 9y ago
        The difference is that Merkel's main plan is to keep Germany plodding along more or less the path it's already on while May's goal is to head full speed off the path they're own, into the woods, and hoping that they'll find a new path on the other side.
      • dx034 9y ago
        But Germany doesn't have to negotiate with other countries, they only have to coordinate within the EU.
  • perlgeek 9y ago
    > Did it ever matter to anyone who considered a move there, that US/Canada/Norway/Israel/Australia/NZ/Switzerland/.. has never been part thereof? The difference is that all those countries have lots of international agreements that make trade and travel rather easy. The UK doesn't have that many international contracts with other EU states directly, because such matters have been handled by the EU. A "hard" brexit would throw back such matters by more than twenty years, and concern many of UK's most important trading partners.
  • keiferski 9y ago
    Any thoughts on London vs. Berlin? I've considered one or the other from time to time.
• Sholmesy 9y ago
  I've been thinking about it for a bit. I'm not affected by Brexit (Commonwealth citizen), but my partner will be (EU/Italian). I think it's going to be a bit overblown. It's easier for EU tech employees to move their lives, than it is for London tech companies to up and move elsewhere. Because of this, I theorise that there will be an intermittent period where there will be a labor shortage in London, due to lack of EU workers to supplement the demand in London tech. This will balance out with time, with EU companies moving more of their offices out of London. I think we have started to see this already, at my gig, we have found it quite difficult to get decent candidates through the door, and anecdotally a lot of our better candidates have been from the EU. We are about 50% Londoners, 30% EU, 20% World.
  • osullivj 9y ago
    I'm a UK citizen contracting for London investment banks by day, and bootstrapping evenings and weekends. I'm looking forward to the London labour shortage. Regulatory driven work keeps piling up in banks, Brexit will only add to that, and short supply in the dev market will send contract rates through the roof. And if we get a really hard Brexit, and EU citizens are compelled to leave, then contracting day rates will be stratospheric!
    • julianpye 9y ago
      That's an interesting point. Never let a good crisis go to waste (cf. Naomi Klein's 'Shock Doctrine'). I guess it's also an opportunity for Govtech startups (that said they need to develop solutions for ~5 different types of outcomes).
    • jimmytidey 9y ago
      I'm not at all criticising the parent post for the opportunity that they see in Brexit. However, increased costs from complying with new legal systems and a shortage of skilled labour pushing up prices are two ways in which the average person will experience Brexit as a bad thing. (Though personally I think the economic costs are not the most important aspects of Brexit.)
    • gadders 9y ago
• BillinghamJ 9y ago
  No
• indescions_2017 9y ago
  That whole region, from Grenoble France through Zurich and into Munich is also just really hot right now. Tens of thousands of world class talented engineers and recent science grads. Coupled with the alpine idyll locales. the general atmosphere of Gemütlichkeit. Who wouldn't want to relocate there! Kinda longing for it myself on this cloudy NYC morn ;)
  • Boothroid 9y ago
    Personally I'm a bit scared of France and Germany what with recent terrorist attacks and mass immigration. Also these areas aren't cheap and Switzerland has a reputation of being pretty closed to outsiders. London obviously has terrorism problems also, but none of the places you mention come close to it in terms of global repute.
    • zimpenfish 9y ago
      > Personally I'm a bit scared of France and Germany what with recent terrorist attacks and mass immigration. In 2017, 14 injured and 3 dead due to terrorists according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in_France#21st_century https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in... In contrast, 329 people were killed on French roads in June 2017 (3469 killed in 2016 total) (https://www.thelocal.fr/20170724/france-road-deaths-in-june-up-154-percent-on-previous-year https://www.thelocal.fr/20170724/france-road-deaths-in-june-...) Your risk assessment is v.poor.
      • ajeet_dhaliwal 9y ago
        Not just poor but absent entirely more likely. Or rather based entirely on the sentiment of popular news media. I watch the BBC sometimes and they make it seem as though if you visited India you'd get raped as soon as you exit the airport. If you visited the USA you wouldn't make it out of the airport, shot dead at the baggage claim. If you visit Brazil, you'd dance around carnival style. When based on violent crime stats from these places, the first two are orders of magnitude safer than South America. With the terrorism stuff, it's just weird, as long as it wasn't a middle eastern looking person doing the killing, it's not something to be worried about even if more people were killed.
• jedrek 9y ago
  I know three people who've already moved this year. Two to Germany and one back to Poland.
• demonshalo 9y ago
  No. I work as an advisor for a ton of startups and I a co-founder myself. There is no better place in Europe to be than the UK.
  • zelos 9y ago
    Out of interest - why do you consider the UK to be the best place for startups?
  • alphadevx 9y ago
    > There is no better place in Europe to be than the UK. Perhaps, for now. If hard trade barriers are in place soon that status will change dramatically.
    • alexbilbie 9y ago
      Trade barriers won't really affect digital service companies as they're not moving physical goods around. Digital services are affected by other types of regulation though which won't really change as a result of Brexit (e.g. if you're a British online accounting company selling a version optimised for German companies).
      • jimmytidey 9y ago
        This is an untested assumption if ever I saw one.
      • notahacker 9y ago
        Regulatory barriers in many areas will affect companies much, much more than a simple fee to move goods
• nanomoose 9y ago
  My company isn't contemplating it in the slightest.
• squeral 9y ago
  I'm a Portuguese expat living and working in the UK and at the moment I'm not thinking of leaving but... It will depend on what happens in the next year or so.
  • Fifer82 9y ago
    I genuinely have no idea what the government is doing but I hope people such as yourself get some answers soon. I am feeling some of the limbo myself as my EU Bosses living in UK hire me. I wish we could get rid of the whole rancid bunch of politicians, and hire some company to take care of it all with dignity.
• te_chris 9y ago
  (UK resident on a Tier 1 Tech Nation visa) I'm waiting to see what happens. It's already done a number on my relative wealth through the pound dropping, but just going to ride it out for a bit and see how dumb the govt. is in the negotiations. As others have said, London is so ridiculously international and concentrated with tech experience and that eases my mind a bit, but if they do crash out and things go tits-up I'll seriously look at leaving.
• adaline 9y ago
  I have just moved to Berlin a month ago. If you have no family/other commitments in UK, I feel the threshold of reasons to leave UK has been crossed already.
• crdoconnor 9y ago
  I know one person who moved back (to Poland) but even he said that Brexit was only part of the reason. The only people I know who have moved to Europe aren't in tech.
• fmsf 9y ago
  I know a handfull of folks that already moved to germany and france. Personally I would move as well but my SO really likes her job.
• Saaster 9y ago
  Not the in the UK, but in New York. I was planning to move my company and myself back to the EU where I'm from, and London specifically. An English speaking country is a must for my partner, having previously lived in Germany we found it highly stressful due to not being able to interactive with the government/landlord/accountants/lawyers etc. in English. Brexit means I won't.
  • alphadevx 9y ago
    What about Ireland if English is a requirement for you?
• alva 9y ago
  No. The rhetoric and threats are off the scale for both sides at the moment. What gets missed in the (profitable) news din is that UK Gov has all but guaranteed EU folk can stay in the country as before. This has been reiterated since day one. EU citizens will have a right to stay and UK Gov will do absolutely everything they can to see that through. The only reason they cannot put it to paper yet is they are waiting for reciprocacy from the EU. Once the EU agrees to provide UK in EU with exactly the same rights as the UK is offering them, it will go down in law. There is so much bluster and threats from all sides. It takes a bit of digging and close examination to see what really is being said and offered.
  • Steer 9y ago
    > Once the EU agrees to provide UK in EU with exactly the same rights as the UK is offering them Will EU do this though? Seems strange to allow UK both to be in and out of the EU at the same time.
    • osullivj 9y ago
      There are 3.2M EU citizens in the UK, and 1.2M UK citizens in the EU. So it makes sense for the EU27 to offer reciprocity.
  • m_t 9y ago
    > The only reason they cannot put it to paper yet is they are waiting for reciprocacy from the EU. Once the EU agrees to provide UK in EU with exactly the same rights as the UK is offering them, it will go down in law. You have it the wrong way around. The EU negotiation team proposed for all EU nationals (EU in the UK, and UK in the EU) to keep the same rights first, and the UK replied with a much worse deal.
• ryanackley 9y ago
  Along those lines, I have always wondered why tech salaries I see advertised for the UK seem so depressed (£40k-£50k) compared to the USA (typically > $100k). Is it because of EU labor mobility? If so, will Brexit push tech salaries up to USA levels?
  • alphadevx 9y ago
    Funny I always thought the US salaries were inflated, especially for grads. Not sure why they are so high, is it cost of living?
    • emodendroket 9y ago
      The demand is there, is I guess the most obvious reason. I don't think companies are paying good salaries out of the kindness of their hearts.
    • adventured 9y ago
      US incomes in general are extremely high at the median compared to all other developed nations save a few. The only comparables are nations like Australia, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland. The median full-time job in the US pays around $45,000. That median person has no four year degree and is not living in a coastal city.
  • chrxr 9y ago
    In general cost of living is lower in London than major US cities like SF, NYC, Boston. For example, the cost of rent in SF is on average 30.96& higher than in London. Groceries 62% higher! https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=United+Kingdom&city1=London&country2=United+States&city2=San+Francisco%2C+CA https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?cou...
    • Piskvorrr 9y ago
      SF seems to be one of the costliest cities of the West Coast. Does London compare favorably to other coastal cities? (In the EU, London has a reputation for being expensive)
• ktzar 9y ago
  I wouldn't consider it now since I'm kind of settled here (house ownership, kids, etc...). Also, the London scene is so international and diverse that I don't think I'd feel at home anywhere else now.
• Radim 9y ago
  Not at all. Especially if the free trade and free movement agreements stay in place, or are expanded (EFTA, Schengen). These are not the same thing as the EU. In fact, smart businesses will new open offices in UK (outside of EU), just to hedge their bets on the future. Buy low, sell high.
  • alphadevx 9y ago
    > Especially if the free trade and free movement agreements stay in place But isn't that what membership of the EU gives the UK today? So give up the membership, you give those up to. It's kind of the whole point of the EU.
    • Radim 9y ago
      Unfortunately not. Not even close. EU is a political union -- it subsumed the European Economic Community and (partially) the Schengen Agreement and gradually added a lot of political centralization on top. Scary how people equate those, without understanding the (monstrous) difference.
      • alphadevx 9y ago
        If the EU is a political union, how come we don't have pan-European parties and elections yet? And a centralized budget? And common taxes? And common defense? I'm sorry but it is not even close to being a political union, unlike the USA for example.
        • Radim 9y ago
          I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic (it's hard to tell on the internet), but just in case: All the things you list have either been already implemented in the EU, or their implementation is being actively discussed. The gradual loss of sovereignty (the so-called "salami method") is also what prompted many people to vote for Brexit. Not everyone was a knuckle-dragging racist.
  • verytrivial 9y ago
• secfirstmd 9y ago
  Already moved to Dublin!
  • simonswords82 9y ago
    Why?
• brango 9y ago
  Yep I'm thinking of heading to Europe and to be living there on Brexit day. I reckon it'll be a reasonable time for the EU to say "OK, whoever was over here then can stay". I haven't decided where to go yet though.
  • yipopov 9y ago
    Heading to Europe from where?
• graphene 9y ago
  (EU national in London) Not at all. I think the doomsday threats are overblown and the negotiating parties will reach a mutually beneficial deal at the 11th hour. Much more concerned about the possibility of the current Labour party gaining power actually.
  • maxehmookau 9y ago
    This is wishful thinking, to put it mildly. What on earth concerns you about a labour government?
    • Jdam 9y ago
      Maybe Corbyn, who's apparently a Marxist? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4483990/David-Gauke-warns-Labour-s-UK-hard-left-experiment.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4483990/David-Gauke-... To me, that's a higher threat than Brexit.
      • maxehmookau 9y ago
        The Daily Mail isn't even an acceptable source on Wikipedia let alone on HN.
        • Jdam 9y ago
          Okay. But is The Guardian acceptable in your political view? https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/19/marxist-corbyn-revolution-ken-livingstone-labour https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/19/marxis...
          • vertex-four 9y ago
            Meh, that is not a critique of Corbyn as a Marxist, it's using communism as a scare word without delving into what Marxism actually is and why Corbyn matches the definition. Do you have a critique by someone who actually knows what Marxism is? I can find plenty of descriptions of many politicians as Fascist (and usually better researched than this), doesn't mean most of them are.
• robert_foss 9y ago
  Anectdotally I've heard of ARM an loosing entire team to Brexit. And being forced to open up a micro office in the teams country of origin. Brexit is real, big players are feeling the pain.
  • Boothroid 9y ago
    If their loyalty is so shallow, let them go, train up some people that aren't so fickle.
    • johneth 9y ago
      Loyalty? Why would anybody be loyal to a country that's using them as pawns in negotiations, that's filled their lives in the UK with so much uncertainty and stress? Loyalty is hard earned, and easily lost. We've (the UK) decided to throw away people's loyalty.
      • Boothroid 9y ago
        But come on though, the flipside of bringing in skilled migrants is that it enables employers/elites to maintain the status quo of not investing in the futures of British people - unless of course those people are members of the ruling class, in which case their entrance to Oxbridge, tasty internships etc. is more or less guaranteed. Though the left tried to stifle this fact for years, it's now generally accepted that immigration has suppressed the wages of native British workers. Surely we should be more concerned about solving any skills shortage by training up the people that are here already? Or should we just throw them on the scrapheap and import cheap migrants? I don't often get roused to anger by debates like this but when it seems like immigrants are being privileged over native Brits it does seem like a pretty massive pisstake.
• jarym 9y ago
  Not because of Brexit itself but more because of how incompetently they're handling it thus far and the implications of that: 1. No certainty that our customers will remain here or that they'll keep buying. We're seeing larger customers slow down spending. 2. No certainty that we can hire the right people from wherever we need to. 3. Little hope that the government will act in a pragmatic, pro-business manner (in fact, red-tape and the corporate tax burden is all but certain to rise for anyone who's not a large multi-national). HMRC (the tax man) are on some crusade to impose some MTD (Making Tax Digital) program and some other disasters on business, tightening up rules on the use of independent contractors, etc. This is not the government showing flexibility, this is the government going about business as usual whilst squabbling over what Brexit means and leaving the economy unattended.
  • alexbilbie 9y ago
    Making Tax Digital's aim is to massively simplify tax returns (including VAT returns) for both individuals and businesses. It's whole aim it reduce time it takes dealing with taxes and give a live overview of tax obligations rather than waiting until the end of the financial year (or longer) to find out what you owe. I don't understand how any of that can be considered contentious especially as it's been pushed back to beyond April 2019 for roll out?
    • jarym 9y ago
      Quarterly 'summary' accounts for small businesses that will almost certainly require software and incur penalties if made late or with mistakes. Asking your average market stall trader or a small retail shop to now require that they keep their management accounts up-to-date quarterly (when at the moment it needs to be done annually and the average accountant charges several hundred ££) is why its contentious. Edit: here is a short summary from CIoT: https://www.tax.org.uk/policy-technical/technical-news/making-tax-digital-vat-main-issues-consideration https://www.tax.org.uk/policy-technical/technical-news/makin...
• Bromskloss 9y ago
  I mean, people worked abroad also before entering the EU.
• drumhead 9y ago
  The government and companies based in the UK always complain about skills shortages and how the free movement of people helps to alleviate that problem. They've been saying this for the last 25 years and have done nothing to ease the situation by investing in training or education. Its just easier for them to import staff. I feel London's a bit like Rome or Athens in as much as were a rich elite living off the back of a massive pool of slave labour, or cheap imported labour in this case. Brexit is only going to have a short term effect on the tech sector, we'll still let highly skilled labour in and probably give them generous tax incentives to stay personally and at a corporate level.
• seddona 9y ago
  Anecdotal evidence and mass media will lead you astray, best to look at the numbers. VC investment in the UK since Brexit is ~$2.5B, about 2x that of Germany and 3x France.
  • RickJWag 9y ago
    Yes, good idea. Follow the money, not where others try to point you. Thinking like that will make you a wise investor.
  • alphadevx 9y ago
    Interesting, local VCs or FDI? Do you have a link?
  • richardknop 9y ago
    This is true. Follow the money, ignore media noise. And if you follow the money it seems that a lot of investors are cautiously optimistic about brexit.
• vogon_laureate 9y ago
  Currently developing a free app for UK citizens to relearn medieval methods of subsistence living after the imminent collapse of the economy and our National Health Service. Pro users will be able to get access to horse-and-cart-focused GPS, gamified witch-finding tutorials, an advanced plague management app and outbreak tracker, and an advanced AI-assisted voice app (voiced by Simon Pegg) that shows you how to cure just about anything with leeches. I predict business will be booming. If any VC funders are interested, please send a pigeon to my homestead in Brighton.
  • alphadevx 9y ago
    You sir have won the thread ;-)
  • LeoNatan25 9y ago
    Do you support IPoAC (IP over Avian Carriers)?
    • needz 9y ago
      I haven't been following development too closely; what's the maximum packet size of an unladen swallow these days?
      • SmellyGeekBoy 9y ago
        African or European?
      • guyzmo 9y ago
        a coconut!
    • hector_ka 9y ago
      Does it support rerouting?
      • needz 9y ago
        Via breadcrumbs, oddly enough.
• ENadyr 9y ago
  Yes, not just because of brexit, but it was what tipped it over the edge for us. Have a few friends in tech who have left UK over the last year, more are planning to leave. We are not moving to Europe though, but to the SF area. We'll keep the R&D here for now (we are a deep tech company), and see how things with the negotiations pan out.
• merraksh 9y ago
  (EU national living in UK). I was ambivalent on working at the headquarters (here in Birmingham) or in remote, and actually started looking for a house here. Thankfully I waited until after the referendum. The ensuing social, political, and economical confusion was convincing enough. I bought a house not far from my hometown, somewhere in southern Europe. I'll move there after some major renovation, some time next year. I might be biased, but I realized in the few years I lived in the UK that the services, health care, and general quality of life are overall better down there than up here. I obviously have only anecdotal proof of that. On a positive note, it has been very instructive so far to live in the country where this is happening, and especially in an area that voted in favor of leaving.
  • tabletiptop 9y ago
    > I might be biased, but I realized in the few years I lived in the UK that the services, health care, and general quality of life are overall better down there than up here. I obviously have only anecdotal proof of that. You said you live in Birmingham. It's not a city known for it's fantastic services, health care, and quality of life. The UK is a very varied place in all of these metrics. I've known and worked with many EU nationals who've come to the UK, lived and worked in one place for a few years, and formed a strong opinion on things. You might not have a complete perspective.
    • merraksh 9y ago
      Well, that clears the doubt on whether I'm biased or not ;-) Birmingham is the only UK city I've lived in. Still, Birmingham is the second largest city in the UK, so its low quality of life affects a large number of people. Moving to a place like York or Oxford is infeasible for many.
    • UK-AL 9y ago
      This is odd because quality of life is usually ranked pretty high in Birmingham.
• pvaldes 9y ago
  Meanwhile in Spain... lots of companies are leaving Catalonia for exactly the same reason. The fear to be excluded from the EU and the permanent feeling of uncertainty https://www.wsj.com/articles/catalans-to-defy-spanish-court-in-push-for-independence-1507285158 https://www.wsj.com/articles/catalans-to-defy-spanish-court-... In the last two weeks around 400 big and medium companies (national and international) changed their tax domicile from Barcelona to other Spanish cities (Valencia, Malaga, Bilbao or Madrid). Including the biggest catalonian banks, and six of the seven catalonian companies in Ibex 35. Could happen the same in UK? Nobody knows, but when it starts other companies will follow. No matter what they say now. If we can learn something from this smaller simulation of brexit is that money hates troubles and can run faster than politicians.
• jimmytidey 9y ago
  I'm going to get an Irish passport with a view to it possibly being relevant for future academic funding or work. (My grandmother was born in Ireland)
• danmaz74 9y ago
  My startup is basically a virtual company - meaning we're all remote - but officially based in London. I could be forced to change that after Brexit, depending on the terms.
• dspillett 9y ago
  There is a significant potential issue that might put off certain types of tech company considering the UK though only indirectly related to Brexit: encryption. The EU is making motions towards privacy protection (see https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/jun/19/eu-outlaw-backdoors-new-data-privacy-proposals-uk-government-encrypted-communications-whatsapp https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/jun/19/eu-outlaw... amongst other similar proposals) where the UK under May and Rudd seems to be wanting to move towards the China model (if the government can't read it, it is illegal). If that intent remains then once we split there will be a stark difference that will be of concern to any companies who handle (or intends to handle) private data & communications as it will put off their potential userbase. I doubt this will make existing companies (including startups) move right now, or in the foreseeable future, but it may make brand new startups consider forming elsewhere or existing EU companies think twice if they were considering some form of a UK branch. There are other concerns with regard to the unclear future of free trade which will have an effect too. But you have to consider the extra hassle of setting up elsewhere: an entrepreneur living in the UK will experience greater "startup friction" trying to setup elsewhere (as they'll have to move at least some of their life) which might be more disadvantageous in the short term. If enough technical people move for similar reasons then we'll see a skills shortage that will put tech startups off, but that is a much longer term matter. I note that you mention "EU staff" not "UK staff" - if you are meaning to specifically exclude UK workers with that wording then the growth of people wanting to move may be due to the apparent glut of racist behaviour in the few months following the vote.
• RickJWag 9y ago
  Hurry! Get in line for the backlash against tech companies playing politics, before it's too late.
• xchaotic 9y ago
  Not exactly a startup, but I had well oiled Ltd running for 10 years in London. I shut it down and I am running my business via another European country. Clients are a mix of US, UK and EU projects.
• 8draco8 9y ago
  (EU citizen living in UK) Yes. Brexit tipped it over the edge. Because of brexit GBP went down which become big lost for me when investing outside of GBP. Even more interesting, current startup that I am working for, decided that it's a good idea to move dev team to EU so essentially I will be working for the same company but from outside of UK.
• martiuk 9y ago
  Nope, actually moving back to the midlands since I'm fed up with London at the moment.
• boraturan 9y ago
  Moved out to US. Alvin5.com
• osrec 9y ago
  Not really... I am not sure whether an actual "Brexit" will happen, given the recent breakdown in talks with our European counterparts. Politically, they may say that we've left Europe, but in reality, the ties are rather deep and difficult to sever (some might even compare it to chopping your own leg off!). I am looking forward to the dip in housing prices as the government flip flops on policy and interest rates begin to rise - that alone is a fairly good reason to stay in the UK! Also, from a business perspective, it's an easy place to get things going. I have a bit of experience with setting up entities in other countries, and the UK process is comparatively straightforward.
  • nmeofthestate 9y ago
    >I am not sure whether an actual "Brexit" will happen, given the recent breakdown in talks with our European counterparts. I would say that any breakdown in negotiations means that Brexit is going to REALLLLY happen (i.e. Hard Brexit). We are on a 2 year clock and time is running out. Who knows - maybe the UK and EU will pull a rabbit out of the hat. However, I can't get my head around anyone being blasé at this stage.
• programmernews3 9y ago
  People will follow the money. Corporation tax is likely to go down further. Its currently 19%, lowest in the G7, and will fall to 17% https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/corporation-tax-to-17-in-2020/corporation-tax-to-17-in-2020 https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/corporation-tax-t...
• ThomasRooney 9y ago
  Not a startup, but a small UK Ltd selling software services to a German company. At the moment, selling to the EU just requires filling in VAT and EC Sales List tax forms. This paperwork is all automated by accounting software. If selling from a UK Ltd company ever becomes a problem, it is a simple matter to create a company in an EU country so I can continue to sell services and products via that. Having residency isn't required to setup and run a company in many EU countries, so I suspect I'd be able to continue working without worry. The only issue would be transferring over income from a foreign country in a compliant manner. If that becomes expensive, then it might be worth moving residency to a different country. But rushing to make a decision seems rather silly when the decision depends on details that haven't even been talked about yet.
• camus2 9y ago
  I bet there will some kind of "soft exit" deal. Neither UK nor the EU can afford to be at odds with each other, so the risks of a hard Brexit are blown out of proportion. Right now it's just business as usual, threats, arrogance and political grand standing. UK will be fine.
• funshed 9y ago
  UK Citizens won't be egar to move due to language barrier. UK Startups look at their market as English speaking countries. UK, USA, etc.. So we are not going to move to a none English speaking country for what? easier access to trade?... Just set up a EU based subsidiary company at a later date after launch and translation. I dont think it's viable. Of course panicked EU citizens will return to homeland due to lack of certainty. Which is odd, that they think UK are not going to be as welcoming after brexit.
  • mnm1 9y ago
    Is it really odd to not feel welcome when over half the population has voted saying that you don't belong there? It's hard to think of a less welcoming place in all of Europe right now.
    • funshed 9y ago
      Your right it is not but I certainly dont feel that was ever the case. A percentage of that 50% will want to send people home but to say "over half the population has voted saying that you don't belong there" is incorrect. Many voted for sovereignty, not to be a star in a flag. They voted for democracy for there voice to be heard in London not a whisper in Brussles. They did not see the economic benefits that are supposed to be the cornerstone. Where the message is confused is that many did vote to end freedom of movement suggesting unlimited immigration put downward preasure on wages. Though the message from Vote Leave (or other campaign groups) was ever to kick people out who are already here. There are many of none-eu ethnicity that voted to leave the EU. Why can anyone from EU come? but a pakistani parent can be denied visa to live with children in UK. An issue echoed many times. Like I was saying it is odd that this message you outline is resonating. I dont know any brexit supporter that would want to kick people out!
• hemling 9y ago
  (EU national living in UK) Yes, I want to leave. I believe in the idea of Europe and want to help it succeed. I work in London. It used to be a great place to be if you enjoy living in an open multicultural environment with fresh ideas. Now it's turning into an old boring and way overpriced place.