4 ms·

Medieval Technology Pages

62 points by networked 9y ago

amelius 9y ago
I was baffled by this: http://scholar.chem.nyu.edu/tekpages/texts/harncont.html http://scholar.chem.nyu.edu/tekpages/texts/harncont.html > The problem, Lefebvre des Noëttes concluded, was the tendency of the harness both to press on the horses's carotid artery and to hamper its breathing because of the position of the harness on the neck. Indeed, Jerome Carcopino, the archaeologist and historian of Rome who wrote the introduction to Lefebvre des Noëttes's book, used the word "strangulation" to describe this situation.
- mirimir 9y ago
  One does wonder how people could have strangled horses for centuries, without figuring out the breast strap or shoulder yoke. I mean, try carrying a backpack with a strap around your neck.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - valesco 9y ago
    They used it for light loads, and used oxen for heavier loads. Both weren't used at their maximum pulling capacity. (this is in the article)
    - mirimir 9y ago
      I did read that. And they also strangled oxen. It just doesn't make sense.
- pbhjpbhj 9y ago
  One point that I don't think is mentioned is failure to properly represent a device in artwork. http://twistedsifter.com/2016/04/artist-asks-people-to-draw-bicycle-from-memory-and-renders-results/ http://twistedsifter.com/2016/04/artist-asks-people-to-draw-... How much does a pottery decorator know about horse harnessing? Do they draw it differently on purpose because it looks better? Edit: so https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biga_(chariot) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biga_(chariot) has some good images, the harnesses are clearly ludicrous, they must be bad representations (eg on the leopards); http://www.romeacrosseurope.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/roman_chariot.png http://www.romeacrosseurope.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/r... and https://i.pinimg.com/736x/74/75/30/7475306e0270a04a278e523748631440--evolution--grand-tour.jpg https://i.pinimg.com/736x/74/75/30/7475306e0270a04a278e52374... shows something reasonable (same harness form), so I guess it must be fake (ie modern). Any other good images?? Edit2: this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Greek_-_Hydria_with_the_Fight_of_Achilles_and_Memnon_-_Walters_482230.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Greek_-_Hydria_with_the_F... shows a neck strap being used for reins and a midriff strap seemingly attached to a chariot [sorry my terminology is lacking]. Edit3: it seems the idea of edit2 was already in the article, para beginning "There the matter rested until 1977, when J. Spruytte reinvestigated Lefebvre des Noëttes work." Also FWIW - "Romans did not seem to harness horses in tandem" this http://www.britishmuseum.org/research/collection_online/collection_object_details.aspx?objectId=397368&partId=1&searchText=roman+horse&images=true&from=bc&fromDate=400&to=ad&toDate=400&matcult=15623|15944&page=1 http://www.britishmuseum.org/research/collection_online/coll... purports to show two sets of horse in tandem, as does this http://www.britishmuseum.org/research/collection_online/collection_object_details.aspx?objectId=430538&partId=1&searchText=roman+horse&images=true&from=bc&fromDate=400&to=ad&toDate=400&matcult=15623|15944&page=1 http://www.britishmuseum.org/research/collection_online/coll.... This http://www.britishmuseum.org/research/collection_online/collection_object_details/collection_image_gallery.aspx?assetId=118728001&objectId=463931&partId=1 http://www.britishmuseum.org/research/collection_online/coll... shows a four horse chariot on which you can clearly see the breast strap linked to a shoulder collar. There are loads of them, http://www.britishmuseum.org/research/collection_online/collection_object_details.aspx?objectId=397830&partId=1&searchText=roman+horse&images=true&from=bc&fromDate=400&to=ad&toDate=400&matcult=15623|15944&page=2 http://www.britishmuseum.org/research/collection_online/coll... too. Amazing what resources we have at our fingertips now!

62 points by networked 9y ago

I was baffled by this: http://scholar.chem.nyu.edu/tekpages/texts/harncont.html http://scholar.chem.nyu.edu/tekpages/texts/harncont.html > The problem, Lefebvre des Noëttes concluded, was the tendency of the harness both to press on the horses's carotid artery and to hamper its breathing because of the position of the harness on the neck. Indeed, Jerome Carcopino, the archaeologist and historian of Rome who wrote the introduction to Lefebvre des Noëttes's book, used the word "strangulation" to describe this situation.

mirimir 9y ago
One does wonder how people could have strangled horses for centuries, without figuring out the breast strap or shoulder yoke. I mean, try carrying a backpack with a strap around your neck.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- valesco 9y ago
  They used it for light loads, and used oxen for heavier loads. Both weren't used at their maximum pulling capacity. (this is in the article)
  - mirimir 9y ago
    I did read that. And they also strangled oxen. It just doesn't make sense.
pbhjpbhj 9y ago
One point that I don't think is mentioned is failure to properly represent a device in artwork. http://twistedsifter.com/2016/04/artist-asks-people-to-draw-bicycle-from-memory-and-renders-results/ http://twistedsifter.com/2016/04/artist-asks-people-to-draw-... How much does a pottery decorator know about horse harnessing? Do they draw it differently on purpose because it looks better? Edit: so https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biga_(chariot) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biga_(chariot) has some good images, the harnesses are clearly ludicrous, they must be bad representations (eg on the leopards); http://www.romeacrosseurope.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/roman_chariot.png http://www.romeacrosseurope.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/r... and https://i.pinimg.com/736x/74/75/30/7475306e0270a04a278e523748631440--evolution--grand-tour.jpg https://i.pinimg.com/736x/74/75/30/7475306e0270a04a278e52374... shows something reasonable (same harness form), so I guess it must be fake (ie modern). Any other good images?? Edit2: this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Greek_-_Hydria_with_the_Fight_of_Achilles_and_Memnon_-_Walters_482230.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Greek_-_Hydria_with_the_F... shows a neck strap being used for reins and a midriff strap seemingly attached to a chariot [sorry my terminology is lacking]. Edit3: it seems the idea of edit2 was already in the article, para beginning "There the matter rested until 1977, when J. Spruytte reinvestigated Lefebvre des Noëttes work." Also FWIW - "Romans did not seem to harness horses in tandem" this http://www.britishmuseum.org/research/collection_online/collection_object_details.aspx?objectId=397368&partId=1&searchText=roman+horse&images=true&from=bc&fromDate=400&to=ad&toDate=400&matcult=15623|15944&page=1 http://www.britishmuseum.org/research/collection_online/coll... purports to show two sets of horse in tandem, as does this http://www.britishmuseum.org/research/collection_online/collection_object_details.aspx?objectId=430538&partId=1&searchText=roman+horse&images=true&from=bc&fromDate=400&to=ad&toDate=400&matcult=15623|15944&page=1 http://www.britishmuseum.org/research/collection_online/coll.... This http://www.britishmuseum.org/research/collection_online/collection_object_details/collection_image_gallery.aspx?assetId=118728001&objectId=463931&partId=1 http://www.britishmuseum.org/research/collection_online/coll... shows a four horse chariot on which you can clearly see the breast strap linked to a shoulder collar. There are loads of them, http://www.britishmuseum.org/research/collection_online/collection_object_details.aspx?objectId=397830&partId=1&searchText=roman+horse&images=true&from=bc&fromDate=400&to=ad&toDate=400&matcult=15623|15944&page=2 http://www.britishmuseum.org/research/collection_online/coll... too. Amazing what resources we have at our fingertips now!