8 ms·

Boy, I _really_ didn't want to swap to Chrome. I'd held on through about a year ago, even despite knowing it was slower, a memory hog, and so on; at least this

by Arubis 9y ago

Boy, I _really_ didn't want to swap to Chrome. I'd held on through about a year ago, even despite knowing it was slower, a memory hog, and so on; at least this way, _someone_ on my team was viewing our site in FF and would notice discrepancies. I hated to let Google manage yet another aspect of my life. But as some point, too much was too much. Unable to bear vanilla, Google-owned Chrome, I ended up in (closed-source!) Vivaldi. It was...alright. About two months ago, I tried out FF Nightly. And by god, it's the best browser I've ever used. And the Nightly builds are (typically) _more_ stable than production-issue from other vendors. So very happy to be back! Mozilla may have their issues, but I'll gladly take imperfect and pro-user over differently imperfect and profit-driven any day.

kibwen 9y ago
> And the Nightly builds are (typically) _more_ stable than production-issue from other vendors. I actually managed to crash nightly yesterday! Maybe this seems like it ought to be banal, but I think it says something admirable when users are surprised to remember that your pre-beta software is pre-beta. :P
starrychloe 9y ago
Profits pay your salary, commie.
- lishzen 9y ago
  I think you're joking but it's the third time I heard someone say something like this today, so... profits don't pay your salary, your work pays for it.
  - nickrivadeneira 9y ago
    Work with no profits (or revenue) would likely mean no salary. On the other hand, profits with no work sounds like a great situation.
    - viraptor 9y ago
      > Work with no profits (or revenue) would likely mean no salary. I'm pretty sure Twitter engineers get paid well. Same for Uber. They've got loses for a long time now. (But they have revenue) Profits definitely don't pay salaries there.
- nopreserveroot 9y ago
  Keep your bootlicking on topic at least. If the company is for-profit and the software is free, you are definitely sacrificing your privacy.
  - chimeracoder 9y ago
    Mozilla (the foundation) is a non-profit corporation, but Mozilla (the corporation that creates the free browser) is a for-profit corporation. They're separate entities. Of course, non-profit corporations are still able to turn profits as well. They just can't distribute dividends to shareholders.
    - Manishearth 9y ago
      To be clear: The for-profit is wholly owned by the non-profit; so there are no shareholders (except for the non-profit). There are restrictions around what 501(c)(3)s can do. The existence of Firefox helps push the goals of Mozilla Foundation, and also bring extra money to the table of the non-profit (but not unbounded! There are similar restrictions on how much money can travel back that way) This is not an uncommon pattern, see https://www.americanbar.org/publications/blt/2014/06/03_levitt.html https://www.americanbar.org/publications/blt/2014/06/03_levi...
      - chimeracoder 9y ago
        Yes, and to be clear, I don't have any issues with this setup. I just wanted to correct the original statement, because it annoys me when "for-profit vs non-profit" is used to imply things that it doesn't actually imply (lack of a profit motive). Or when people imply that being as non-profit means that the company can't or doesn't actually turn a profit.
        Manishearth 9y ago
        Yeah, I get that, just wanted to add further clarification that there aren't shareholders etc etc
- Forbo 9y ago
  Profits are unpaid wages.
  - krapp 9y ago
    Profits are paid to shareholders. Wages are the cost your employer pays to allow you to generate more profit for shareholders. "Profits are unpaid wages" is a nonsensical statement.
    - thereare5lights 9y ago
      This is only true if your company operates to maximize shareholder value. If your company exists to serve its employees as its first priority, then your statement is false.
      - krapp 9y ago
        Companies can't exist to serve their employees as a first priority - because companies exist to make a profit. Even if the owners care more about their employees than about profit, that profit still has to come first. No profit... sooner or later, no company.
        matt4077 9y ago
        This is an insane discussion, but I can't resist: By definition, "profit" is the share of revenue that is not needed for the existence and work of the company. There's even a category of enterprises successfully working in such a framework. They're called–oh happy day–"non-profits".
        hueving 9y ago
        Non profits don't give extra leftover revenue to employees, so it's still a bullshit statement.
        kuschku 9y ago
Manishearth 9y ago
> And the Nightly builds are (typically) _more_ stable than production-issue from other vendors. Yeah, I switched to Nightly a couple releases ago (I'd use Dev edition before that because in the past Nightly used to be really unstable) and it's been great. The only time I've been getting crashes are when I flipped stylo on early (which was to be expected), and a couple of random crashes here and there. In fact, I've had more problems in Chrome (Stable) these last two weeks, where their devtools hanged everything in multiple cases and Netflix wasn't working at all. And Chrome isn't my primary browser -- I only use it for Hangouts and Netflix (Netflix is force of habit, it works great in Firefox now). (I used the devtools because I'm using the new rewritten devtools in Firefox Nightly and they don't have a prettyprint button right now)
- clouddrover 9y ago
  > Netflix is force of habit, it works great in Firefox now Netflix doesn't work great in either Firefox or Chrome, but that's not the browser's fault. Netflix only streams 720p video to Firefox, Opera, and Chrome whereas it will stream 1080p or better to Safari, IE 11, and Edge: https://help.netflix.com/en/node/23742 https://help.netflix.com/en/node/23742 You can see the playback details (formats, resolution, bit rate, etc.) of the video you're currently watching on Netflix by pressing Ctrl+Shift+Alt+D. I use Safari to view Netflix though I'd prefer to use Firefox. I'm paying Netflix for access to 1080p video, but I only actually get 1080p video with Safari.
  - Manishearth 9y ago
    Yeah, I'm aware of that. IIRC a few years ago it was even worse on Firefox because of DRM issues or something (I don't recall). Also in the past Firefox's media stack used to be a bit more RAM-hog-y, but that's no longer the case IME either. I still stick media stuff in a different browser so that if I'm doing a build or something expensive I can just close the browser.
  - kuschku 9y ago
    > Netflix only streams 720p video to Firefox, Opera, and Chrome whereas it will stream 1080p or better to Safari, IE 11, and Edge Yeah, that's due to DRM. The simple solution is to disable the EME plugin, and just pirate everything (while still paying for Netflix). You pay for it, and have a moral right to it, and you can watch it in 1080p or 4K easily.
SwellJoe 9y ago
I haven't crashed nightly (I'm running the developer edition nightly) in months, but I've seen some rendering bugs since they rolled in the overhauled bits. Not as much as one might expect from a bunch of new parts, though. The quality of Firefox is just generally very high.
on_and_off 9y ago
I am more than willing to try Firefox BUT I need a couple of things : -an extension to allow to treat chrome + firefox history and open tabs as one on all devices (basically what I already have with chrome on desktop + mobile) -a password manager that integrates with both (this one should be easy enough .. just buy lastpass or an alternative).
mhartl 9y ago
OT, but (in case you didn't know) you can use asterisks to italicize text, so instead of _this_ you'll have this.
bigbugbag 9y ago
So you've not used opera before they switch to chromium ?

by Arubis 9y ago

kibwen 9y ago

> And the Nightly builds are (typically) _more_ stable than production-issue from other vendors. I actually managed to crash nightly yesterday! Maybe this seems like it ought to be banal, but I think it says something admirable when users are surprised to remember that your pre-beta software is pre-beta. :P

starrychloe 9y ago

Profits pay your salary, commie.

lishzen 9y ago
I think you're joking but it's the third time I heard someone say something like this today, so... profits don't pay your salary, your work pays for it.
- nickrivadeneira 9y ago
  Work with no profits (or revenue) would likely mean no salary. On the other hand, profits with no work sounds like a great situation.
  - viraptor 9y ago
    > Work with no profits (or revenue) would likely mean no salary. I'm pretty sure Twitter engineers get paid well. Same for Uber. They've got loses for a long time now. (But they have revenue) Profits definitely don't pay salaries there.
nopreserveroot 9y ago
Keep your bootlicking on topic at least. If the company is for-profit and the software is free, you are definitely sacrificing your privacy.
- chimeracoder 9y ago
  Mozilla (the foundation) is a non-profit corporation, but Mozilla (the corporation that creates the free browser) is a for-profit corporation. They're separate entities. Of course, non-profit corporations are still able to turn profits as well. They just can't distribute dividends to shareholders.
  - Manishearth 9y ago
    To be clear: The for-profit is wholly owned by the non-profit; so there are no shareholders (except for the non-profit). There are restrictions around what 501(c)(3)s can do. The existence of Firefox helps push the goals of Mozilla Foundation, and also bring extra money to the table of the non-profit (but not unbounded! There are similar restrictions on how much money can travel back that way) This is not an uncommon pattern, see https://www.americanbar.org/publications/blt/2014/06/03_levitt.html https://www.americanbar.org/publications/blt/2014/06/03_levi...
    - chimeracoder 9y ago
      Yes, and to be clear, I don't have any issues with this setup. I just wanted to correct the original statement, because it annoys me when "for-profit vs non-profit" is used to imply things that it doesn't actually imply (lack of a profit motive). Or when people imply that being as non-profit means that the company can't or doesn't actually turn a profit.
      - Manishearth 9y ago
        Yeah, I get that, just wanted to add further clarification that there aren't shareholders etc etc
Forbo 9y ago
Profits are unpaid wages.
- krapp 9y ago
  Profits are paid to shareholders. Wages are the cost your employer pays to allow you to generate more profit for shareholders. "Profits are unpaid wages" is a nonsensical statement.
  - thereare5lights 9y ago
    This is only true if your company operates to maximize shareholder value. If your company exists to serve its employees as its first priority, then your statement is false.
    - krapp 9y ago
      Companies can't exist to serve their employees as a first priority - because companies exist to make a profit. Even if the owners care more about their employees than about profit, that profit still has to come first. No profit... sooner or later, no company.
      - matt4077 9y ago
        This is an insane discussion, but I can't resist: By definition, "profit" is the share of revenue that is not needed for the existence and work of the company. There's even a category of enterprises successfully working in such a framework. They're called–oh happy day–"non-profits".
        hueving 9y ago
        Non profits don't give extra leftover revenue to employees, so it's still a bullshit statement.
        kuschku 9y ago

Manishearth 9y ago

> And the Nightly builds are (typically) _more_ stable than production-issue from other vendors. Yeah, I switched to Nightly a couple releases ago (I'd use Dev edition before that because in the past Nightly used to be really unstable) and it's been great. The only time I've been getting crashes are when I flipped stylo on early (which was to be expected), and a couple of random crashes here and there. In fact, I've had more problems in Chrome (Stable) these last two weeks, where their devtools hanged everything in multiple cases and Netflix wasn't working at all. And Chrome isn't my primary browser -- I only use it for Hangouts and Netflix (Netflix is force of habit, it works great in Firefox now). (I used the devtools because I'm using the new rewritten devtools in Firefox Nightly and they don't have a prettyprint button right now)

clouddrover 9y ago
> Netflix is force of habit, it works great in Firefox now Netflix doesn't work great in either Firefox or Chrome, but that's not the browser's fault. Netflix only streams 720p video to Firefox, Opera, and Chrome whereas it will stream 1080p or better to Safari, IE 11, and Edge: https://help.netflix.com/en/node/23742 https://help.netflix.com/en/node/23742 You can see the playback details (formats, resolution, bit rate, etc.) of the video you're currently watching on Netflix by pressing Ctrl+Shift+Alt+D. I use Safari to view Netflix though I'd prefer to use Firefox. I'm paying Netflix for access to 1080p video, but I only actually get 1080p video with Safari.
- Manishearth 9y ago
  Yeah, I'm aware of that. IIRC a few years ago it was even worse on Firefox because of DRM issues or something (I don't recall). Also in the past Firefox's media stack used to be a bit more RAM-hog-y, but that's no longer the case IME either. I still stick media stuff in a different browser so that if I'm doing a build or something expensive I can just close the browser.
- kuschku 9y ago
  > Netflix only streams 720p video to Firefox, Opera, and Chrome whereas it will stream 1080p or better to Safari, IE 11, and Edge Yeah, that's due to DRM. The simple solution is to disable the EME plugin, and just pirate everything (while still paying for Netflix). You pay for it, and have a moral right to it, and you can watch it in 1080p or 4K easily.

SwellJoe 9y ago

I haven't crashed nightly (I'm running the developer edition nightly) in months, but I've seen some rendering bugs since they rolled in the overhauled bits. Not as much as one might expect from a bunch of new parts, though. The quality of Firefox is just generally very high.

on_and_off 9y ago

I am more than willing to try Firefox BUT I need a couple of things : -an extension to allow to treat chrome + firefox history and open tabs as one on all devices (basically what I already have with chrome on desktop + mobile) -a password manager that integrates with both (this one should be easy enough .. just buy lastpass or an alternative).

mhartl 9y ago

OT, but (in case you didn't know) you can use asterisks to italicize text, so instead of _this_ you'll have this.

bigbugbag 9y ago

So you've not used opera before they switch to chromium ?