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The C64 Mini Computer
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- retSava 9y agoIn style with NES Classic and SNES Classic, now comes the C64 in similar style - small package with a couple of controllers and HDMI. Keyboard support to write Basic. A handful of built-in games. I guess it's basically the same inside too, some half-decent ARM A-line cpu running some emulator. I can see the appeal, although I know myself and it will be fun for a good few 10 minutes, then collect dust (not to be pessimistic or so, I just know myself :)).
- retSava 9y agoAlso, > THEC64® Mini will hit the shops in early 2018 with a suggested retail price of £69.99/$69.99/€79.99. And the controller looks similar to a Tac 2, which is a win in my book :).
- unwind 9y agoI think it looks very much like a Zipstik (http://blog.tynemouthsoftware.co.uk/2016/03/zipstik-joystick-repair.html http://blog.tynemouthsoftware.co.uk/2016/03/zipstik-joystick...). The TAC-2 is smaller and a much simpler shape, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAC-2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAC-2.
- unwiredben 9y agoIt's a clone of the Competition Pro, the same design was used for the earlier Commodore DTV See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kempston_Micro_Electronics#Competition_Pro https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kempston_Micro_Electronics#Com... and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C64_Direct-to-TV https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C64_Direct-to-TV
- Boothroid 9y agoWondering how authentic the audio recreation will be? SID chip is very popular.
- Maakuth 9y agoMy first idea from the title was a historical product, something with RAM expansion, multi-user OS and hard drive. A minicomputer. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minicomputer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minicomputer)
- cr0sh 9y agoI was actually expecting something like a fully transistor re-creation of the CPU, graphics, sound, etc - stuff into a minicomputer cabinet of some sort. Something crazy like that. But this is interesting too.
- pnutjam 9y agoAfew years ago you could have got one of these. https://www.c64-wiki.com/wiki/C64DTV https://www.c64-wiki.com/wiki/C64DTV
- slantyyz 9y agoI'm in the same boat. When I was growing up, a mini computer was huge. When I was in high school, some of my programming courses were on Digital PDP mini computers. I remember writing BASIC programs with a Sharpie on optical mark reader cards. Debugging was a nightmare, you'd run your cards through the reader, look at the printer output and debug back at your desk by sorting through your cards. This was in the mid 80s -- the Apple ][ at home was better tech than what we had at my school.
- linsomniac 9y agoJust last week I explained to the kids that a mini computer is pretty huge. My 8 yo boy had said something about this tiny computer and called it a minicomputer. "Mini computers are pretty huge. At the time they were made, computers filled rooms, so a computer the size of a washing machine WAS small. And the big computer on your desk is a microcomputer because it's even smaller." Mind. Blown.
- GlenTheMachine 9y agoI'd be a lot more likely to get it if it wasn't half-sized, actually. Gotta be impossible to type on that keyboard.
- ant512 9y agoFrom the "About" page: > PLUS – Full sized, fully working version also coming in 2018 as well!
- wvenable 9y agoI'm going to assume that keyboard is non-functional but I'd happy to be wrong about that.
- adam12 9y agoHopefully someone will respond to that question and others here: https://community.thec64.com/d/5-fantastic-pending-some-more-info https://community.thec64.com/d/5-fantastic-pending-some-more...
- armadsen 9y agoSounds like it. From the About page: >As befits a home computer you can also plug in a standard USB PC keyboard and use as a classic C64 to type in those old BASIC computer listings or program new games. It doesn't seem like they'd phrase it that way unless you were required to plug in a USB keyboard in order to type.
- danellis 9y agoYeah, I don't see how "mini" is such a compelling feature that you need to plug in a USB keyboard to use it.
- Vaskivo 9y agoI would be interested if it had the original hardware. What are the challenges in producing new C64 (and NES and SNES) with the same hardware? I believe there are a lot of modern Genesis copies using the same hardware.
- rhizome 9y agoYou can still get 6502s, but the SID chip has not been manufactured for years. The SID has long been successfully emulated, but I don't know how practical that would be to include in a 6502 box.
- cr0sh 9y ago> The SID has long been successfully emulated Emulated, but from what I understand, not perfectly. Mainly because the SID was a hybrid digital and analog IC - and it's that analog part that made it unique. Also - I don't think (I could be wrong) that any successful reverse engineering of the chip was ever done, nor do I think that there were any or much documentation about the chip (that is, official docs)? It was very much one of those custom chips made for one specific purpose that wasn't used in any other product (this was a common thing in many home computers of the 1980s).
- busterarm 9y agoActually the opposite. The demoscene has done phenomenal work squeezing all the tricks they can out of that chip. Some of its quirks have been used to great advantage in demos over the years.
- exlurker 9y agoIt was originally conceived as a multi-purpose synth chip. Bob Yannes, designer: "When I designed the SID chip, I was attempting to create a single-chip synthesizer voice, which hopefully would find it's way into polyphonic/polytimbral synthesizers. I never realized this however." http://sid.kubarth.com/articles/interview_bob_yannes.html http://sid.kubarth.com/articles/interview_bob_yannes.html
- Theodores 9y agoI did not recognize any of the game titles. I was around then but I did not realize how different the titles on the C64 were to those available on Sinclair and Acorn computers. Is this a representative selection of titles from the era? I would be very interested if there was any correlation between home computer brands and automotive brands. Commodore was marketed in the UK in a way that brings to mind Vauxhall cars (GM). It is too late to do the data now but in my mind Sinclair was more like Ford UK and Acorn more like a properly engineered German marque, e.g. Mercedes. Much like you would never put G.M. parts in a Ford but you could put a Ford or GM engine in some other car, e.g. a Lotus sports car, it seems that there were reasons beyond hardware limitations for why some titles never crossed over. Only Commodore users got certain sub-genres, e.g. those text adventure things.
- ant512 9y agoA bunch of these were also Spectrum hits: Heartland, the Monty Mole series, and Everyone's A Wally are some stand-outs. California Games got converted to pretty much every platform around.
- stevekemp 9y agoCybernoid / Cybernoid II too, I remember playing those on my 48k Spectrum. Infinite lives if you redefined your keys as "YXES" on the original, and as "ORGY" on the sequel. Once done you'll hear an audio confirmation and you can reset them to whatever you like. 20+ years and I still remember those!
- svachalek 9y agoI played a ton of C64 games and the only two that ring a bell are California Games and Impossible Mission (the latter was excellent at least for the time). Some that I remember spending a ton of time on: Ultima IV and V, Legacy of the Ancients, Jumpman, Hacker, Pirates, the old AD&D "gold box" games...
- SyneRyder 9y agoSome of these are definitely C64 classics - Creatures caught my eye, rated 96% in Zzap!64 magazine. But I also note other classics, California Games, Gribbly's Day Out, Chip's Challenge and of course Impossible Mission (famous at the time for its speech synthesis: "Another visitor! Stay a while... staaayyy forever!"). I never played Monty Mole or Monty On The Run, but had always heard of them. I don't think I played much Iridis Alpha, but Jeff Minter (aka Llamasoft) was a legend of the C64 scene & indie gaming in general - his latest 2017 game is central to the latest Nine Inch Nails video clip [1]. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDV-dOvqKzQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDV-dOvqKzQ
- leoc 9y agoOn the higher end of 8-bit-micro reissues, there's the ZX Spectrum Next: https://www.specnext.com/about/ https://www.specnext.com/about/ . The industrial design is by Rick Dickinson, who designed all the original Spectrums up to the QL.
- throwaway7645 9y agoThat's amazing...if I don't like Kickstarter, can i buy one after the campaign is over? Also, will it come with a good documentation? Things in the 80's often had phenomenal documentation that was designed to teach and not just point out the location of a few pins. I never used the Zx before. What is the user experience like? When you boot up, can you bring up a BASIC prompt or type in Assembly?
- leoc 9y agoJust to mention https://www.worldofspectrum.org/forums/ https://www.worldofspectrum.org/forums/ , probably a good point of entry into the present-day Spectrum community. EDIT: As to the manual, see this FAQ entry: https://www.specnext.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=540 https://www.specnext.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=540
- flohofwoe 9y agoThe older Spectrum48k boots directly into a (rather bland) BASIC screen editor, the later Spectrum128k started with a simple UI menu. You can see here: http://floooh.github.io/virtualkc/ http://floooh.github.io/virtualkc/ (click on the hamburger menu and select "system..." to boot into the Spectrum48k and 128k models)
- throwaway7645 9y agoThank you!
- j_s 9y agohttps://www.specnext.com/the-shop-is-now-live https://www.specnext.com/the-shop-is-now-live (Jun 2017) the Next is available for pre-ordering here on the website. There are, though, a couple of changes we made to keep things fair for everyone: first, the shipping date is a month later than for the KS backers, they will get their boards and machines first; second, the Next now has a 20% margin over the original price https://www.specnext.com/shop https://www.specnext.com/shop ZX Spectrum Next board (devkit) £119.00 + VAT ZX Spectrum Next computer £210.00 + VAT ZX Spectrum Next Accelerated computer £275.00 + VAT
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- throwaway7645 9y agoAny text adventures included? I've played Zork on the C64 and it was great.
- colomon 9y agoNone I recognized the name of on their list, and you'd have to add a USB keyboard to type on it. (Also, speaking as someone who played lots of Infocom games on his C64, I don't think there's any advantage whatsoever to playing them there as opposed to a modern terminal of some sort?)
- throwaway7645 9y agoI've got Zork on other platforms, but it did seem cool.
- crispyambulance 9y agoVery nice. Put together, it seems, with a very small team. Curious what their pricing will be and how they managed to license all those games. Interesting that they could include the games but then not use the word "Commodore". It appears that the brand owner still exists, sort of? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_USA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_USA).
- lewisflude 9y agoOn the site it suggests £69.99/$69.99
- Koshkin 9y ago> plug in a USB keyboard and use as a fully functional home computer This is weird... Why would I plug a keyboard into what looks like a perfectly good keyboard?
- Luc 9y agoIt is a simulacrum. Adding a real, custom tiny keyboard (which 99% of buyers won't use anyway) would probably double the price.
- the_af 9y agoUnderstandable, but disappointing. There already are emulators for the software. For the real experience, I'd like to type using that clunky C64 keyboard :P
- Koshkin 9y agoExactly. A non-working simulation is something that goes strongly against the geek mentality.
- djur 9y agoNintendo has sold a great many NES and SNES Classics with non-working cartridge drives, and I'm sure a lot of the people buying those were geeks, so it must not go too strongly against it.
- Luc 9y agoI have one of these: http://www.vesalia.de/e_keyrahv2.htm http://www.vesalia.de/e_keyrahv2.htm It converts the keyboard of a C64 into a USB keyboard. It is of course an unholy abomination so I usually don't talk about it.
- colomon 9y agoThe box is 50% the size of a real C64. Even if a half-sized keyboard worked, I know my fingers would have extreme difficulty typing on it.
- throwaway7645 9y agoHow easy would it be to write games on this that use the joy stick, and what are the compiler options? BASIC interpreter, C compiler, Pascal compiler, Assembly?
- biggieshellz 9y agoC64 BASIC is pretty terrible -- to do anything with graphics or sound, you really have to use PEEK/POKE and do it in 6502 assembly. Aside from that, 6502 assembly is your best bet. There are lots of tutorials online for the C64 specifically, and there are good cross-assembler toolchains available.
- throwaway7645 9y agoSounds fun, but kind of a pain. I've been meaning to write a Forth...sounds like a good project.
- jerf 9y agoIt is definitely doable: https://www.c64-wiki.com/wiki/Forth https://www.c64-wiki.com/wiki/Forth
- Luc 9y ago> How easy would it be to write games on this that use the joy stick Easy peasy, just read the bits from $DC00.
- busterarm 9y agoAs someone who owned a C64, the games list leaves a lot to be desired. Some make sense, but the absence of Pirates!, The Bard's Tale series, AD&D Gold Box and Carmen Sandiago games is noticeable. I imagine the licensing is too hard. Then the missed gems like Cauldron I & II, Ultimate Wizard, etc. I guess I'll stick to VICE.
- the_af 9y agoAlso no "The Last Ninja", "Bruce Lee", "1942", "Raid over Moscow" or "Ghosts'n'Goblins". Boo!
- busterarm 9y agoYou can get those on other platforms though
- the_af 9y agoWell, same with the games you mentioned! None of those games are C64 exclusives; in fact, I played many on the PC. It's a nostalgic thing anyway: to me, Bruce Lee and The Last Ninja defined the C64... and my childhood. edit: according to Mobygames, at least Raid over Moscow was never published on the PC, and certainly not on the arcades. So there's that :P
- ideonexus 9y agoI felt the same way, but then I have to keep in mind that the library of games for the C64 was pretty immense, and negotiating with that many software developers to get the rights would be a herculean task. This isn't Nintendo, where a single company is putting out their own hits. Commodore's library is (I believe) entirely 3rd party manufactured, and back in the BBS days I maintained a library of hundreds of games for trade.
- busterarm 9y agoOh, I completely understand. I just hope there's some nudge-wink way of loading my own software on the thing. Often these things end up being pretty closed off. That Ultimate Wizard game I mentioned was made by 'Progressive Peripherals and Software', who some might remember as makers of Amiga add-on cards, frame grabbers and games out of Colorado. Just two guys (worked on the game, at least). I heard some sad news back in the 90s that their office burned down and took out their remaining business with it. They have a facebook page! https://www.facebook.com/groups/104188856284928/ https://www.facebook.com/groups/104188856284928/ IA has Wizard, but not Ultimate, so no extra level packs or construction set. https://archive.org/details/C64Videoarchive198-Wizard https://archive.org/details/C64Videoarchive198-Wizard
- chicago_wade 9y agoI'd love to see the demoscene do something cool with it :)
- white-flame 9y agoIt's ARM-based, so if it isn't using one of the big kahuna emulators (the RPi3 isn't powerful enough to do VICE full-spec), it's unlikely to run even existing C64 demos. And since there's no mention of any expanded features of the C64-ness itself, there's no draw to do any development for this device in particular.
- mapster 9y agothis is a 'gateway drug' to getting a full C=64 system so you can Commodore 64 properly: Karatika, Bruce Lee, Print Shop + Epson dotmatrix printer to make banners
- slyrus 9y agoAdd Archon, Seven Cities of Gold, Alligata Blagger, Lode Runner, M.U.L.E., Bruce Lee or IK, and take my damn money, please.
- greedo 9y agoI dreamed of owning this computer or the Sinclair ZX80 when I was in high school. Our media center had two Apple ][ computers, but access to them was very limited. It would take me two more years to buy my own Apple IIc.
- earlybike 9y agoWill it have a real keyboard?
- white-flame 9y agoNo, only the full-sized THEC64 claims a working keyboard. The mini model just has keyboard-looking styling.
- twsted 9y agoThe more I think about the experience we had many years ago with these simple and beautiful computers, the more I think that we should recreate the same experience for our children. I think that the path is: a very easy starting point (like a BASIC REPL) and the possibility to Peek and Poke at a later stage.
- foobarian 9y agoA simple fpga based machine with a simple instruction set, HDMI out, and gobs more memory than used to exist. Nicer graphics say 1900x1200 with good BASIC primitives. Instant on. SD card reader. No internal storage other than ROM.
- gerdesj 9y agoI have just had my C64 restored by a friend. SID n VID needed replacing along with a few other bits. The video out is now SCART and it now sports an eight GB SD Card and Fastboot. Just got it back and fired it up. Nostalgia in spades.
- brians 9y agoIt looks like this has some of the same product people as https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C64_Direct-to-TV https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C64_Direct-to-TV , but critically not Jeri Ellsworth.
- white-flame 9y agoIt certainly doesn't look like a hardware reimplementation, either. It's most likely going to be ARM-based emulation. With the DTV you could at least connect it to external C64 peripherals and do cool things with it.
- renaudg 9y agoOhh great, 35 years old platform wars in the comments :) The ZX Spectrum is definitely the most overrated of all of the 8-bits : it had by far the most horrid (all but monochrome !) graphics of the bunch, and few other redeeming qualities (mainly its price). And yet, there's no shortage of reissues, books, and modern worship around it. Nostalgia is a strange thing, sometimes. The C64's cult following is much better deserved : in spite of its washed out graphics (it doesn't even have a proper red colour!), it did have hardware sprites, a lot of character and of course the SID: the most exquisite sound chip ever made ! But probably the most underrated and best 8-bit of all was the Amstrad CPC : It had hands down the best graphics of the bunch (Google ZX/C64/CPC screenshots of Operation Wolf, Gryzor, or Stormlord and you'll know what I mean ! Also, check out this recent and jaw-dropping homebrew CPC remake of the Amiga's Pinball Dreams : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVv-oBN6AWA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVv-oBN6AWA ) The Amstrad was also the only fully standalone one, with its built-in tape deck or disk drive and sharp CRT screen out of the box (the screen also doubled as a PSU, and provided proper RGB connectivity, unlike the mushy Composite output of the C64 or ZX on the home TV) IIRC, the C64 sold 17 million units, the various ZX variants 5 million, and the Amstrad 3 million. The markets were quite local : the C64 was king in Germany and northern Europe, the CPC was strongest in France (where nobody had ever seen a Speccy ever, and hardly any C64s) and Spain (together with the Spectrum, but not the C64) Why the British had this strange fascination with the Spectrum and mostly ignored their also-homegrown and vastly superior Amstrad, is a topic of great puzzlement and affliction to me. And I'm totally not saying that out of spite that the publisher of the gorgeous "Visual Compedium" retro book series, was worried that the Amstrad was "too niche" when I suggested to him that he should do one for the 8 bit with the best graphics (because let's face it, "ZX Spectrum : a Visual Compedium" is kind of an oxymoron). The latest book he had just released was about the Neo Geo. Talk about niche ...
- CmdrKrool 9y agoYou'll probably enjoy "Ruthless: The Story of Amstrad and Alan Sugar in the 80's and 90's" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiIXn9Tr5hI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiIXn9Tr5hI), an absorbing video that offers some opinionated explanations for the CPC's lukewarm performance in Britain and its success in other parts of Europe. While both the machine and the man were less loved, Sugar did of course have the last laugh as he ended up owning the Spectrum business. Spectrum fan here, but I do love the CPC's eye popping colours :)
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]