5 ms·

That sounds like a cool feature, but probably applicable to 0.0001% of the population. Think of all the work app developers would need to do to make their app

by giarc 9y ago

That sounds like a cool feature, but probably applicable to 0.0001% of the population. Think of all the work app developers would need to do to make their app "duress compatible" in the very rare chance someone is being held at gunpoint and the person is asking to see their emails.

surfmike 9y ago
If the phone allowed multiple users that might be one way to do it. Just log in to another user.
- mLuby 9y ago
  Or use all that machine learning to fake a normal user profile…
- r1ch 9y ago
  Xiaomi's MIUI has this feature, you can use different fingerprints to directly enter a "2nd Home" or something where all apps / data is segregated. It's not really designed to be too stealthy though as there's ways to switch back to the regular homescreen.
- mtgx 9y ago
  Yes, allow the users to create multiple accounts and also allow them to encrypt and hide those other accounts. This should also be available to fingerprint readers, as the suggest "gesture" would be even easier: just use a different fingerprint (you can set the fingerprint that everyone expects you to use as the "other fingerprint", and use some other fingerprint as your default one). It should also work with passwords, etc.
jwr 9y ago
How did you arrive at the "0.0001%" figure? Of what population is that a percentage? I strongly dislike this kind of waving away an important feature request. These days anybody crossing the border of the USA could be asked to unlock their phone. I'd say that's at least a larger percentage of the "population" (whatever population you meant) than "0.0001%".
- MBCook 9y ago
  > I strongly dislike this kind of waiving away an important feature request I could easily say I dislike people making up rediculous corner cases and demanding new technology be designed for it and being deployed. Are there any authorization methods on any kind of mainstream devices that provide that capability? I tend to agree that it’s not actually useful and would be incredible hard to implement, all for a case where most people will just give in to avoid harm and forget the option, if it’s even on, exists so they can’t activate it.
  - SirZimzim 9y ago
    Are you saying that I shouldn't be able to snap my fingers three times to call 911? What if I'm handcuffed?
- giarc 9y ago
  The 0.0001% was obviously a facetious figure. Meant to convey the fact that a duress feature whereby you cross your eyes while using FaceID to "alert the mothership" as OP said, is an extreme corner case. As another commentor said, you can't expect Apple (or any manufacturer) to build all these extreme corner cases. If you don't want to unlock your phone at the border, put it in your checked luggage or ship it to your hotel/destination. If you still think that Apple should build something like this because it's important and serves a non zero % of the population... I'd also like Apple to build... 1. FaceID that will tell me when I have something in my teeth 2. FaceID that will tell me when my hair is messy 3. an iPhone that listens to my voice and detect when I might be sick and orders cough syrup 4. an iPhone accelerometer that detects when I am limping and books a physio appointment 5. an iPhone camera that can detect when someone is watching me in the distance 6. an iPhone that will passively listen for gunfire and tell me to seek cover. See how feature requests can get out of control.
bsenftner 9y ago
Just say "its to fight terrorism" and everyone will have it. It'll be required by law soon there after.
godelski 9y ago
Not to mention incredibly difficult to pull off. It isn't like having two passwords, one distress password and one normal. An algorithm that needs to identify your face in any situation AND detect subtle characteristics? I don't see that being a reality with our current technology. Or at least without significant false positives. Though a two password feature would be nice and easy to implement.
- oh_sigh 9y ago
  It could be something as simple as having one eye closed when under duress(sorry, monoculars!). It only takes one unlock attempt to then lock it down. Bonus with this is that LE couldn't hold the phone up to your face while you are sleeping to unlock it.
  - godelski 9y ago
    I see two problems with that. 1) Everyone now knows that the duress signal is one eye 2) people with one eye (or at least as far as the algorithm is concerned) cannot use the service. Which say, you got beat up and one eye was swelling you might accidentally set it into duress mode, when you need the full mode and you bypass the password override. I just think that a duress mode with facial recognition (that also has to account for eye-wear, makeup, and various environmental changes) is going to have a difficult time creating a duress mode. Whereas a dual password system is easy to implement.
    - dkonofalski 9y ago
      I think the point was that the user would get to choose what their duress trigger would be. For some it would be one eye, for others a tongue, for still others it might be a swipe on the phone or 3 taps and a swipe...
      - godelski 9y ago
        I think with current technology that'd make the training prohibitive unless you boiled it down to a few options. Which would still likely result in false positives. I mean, this stuff isn't magic. OR you could use the face as a username, as many suggest, and a short 4 pin password. You could easily have a duress password option (which as far as I know doesn't exist), still quickly log in, AND have fairly good security.
dkonofalski 9y ago
They wouldn't have to do any work. It'd be an OS level implementation. In the same way that you can customize what apps receive/show notifications, you could choose which apps are sandboxed in the "duress" mode. Anything outside of that would be optional security for developers to implement.

by giarc 9y ago

surfmike 9y ago

If the phone allowed multiple users that might be one way to do it. Just log in to another user.

mLuby 9y ago
Or use all that machine learning to fake a normal user profile…
r1ch 9y ago
Xiaomi's MIUI has this feature, you can use different fingerprints to directly enter a "2nd Home" or something where all apps / data is segregated. It's not really designed to be too stealthy though as there's ways to switch back to the regular homescreen.
mtgx 9y ago
Yes, allow the users to create multiple accounts and also allow them to encrypt and hide those other accounts. This should also be available to fingerprint readers, as the suggest "gesture" would be even easier: just use a different fingerprint (you can set the fingerprint that everyone expects you to use as the "other fingerprint", and use some other fingerprint as your default one). It should also work with passwords, etc.

jwr 9y ago

How did you arrive at the "0.0001%" figure? Of what population is that a percentage? I strongly dislike this kind of waving away an important feature request. These days anybody crossing the border of the USA could be asked to unlock their phone. I'd say that's at least a larger percentage of the "population" (whatever population you meant) than "0.0001%".

MBCook 9y ago
> I strongly dislike this kind of waiving away an important feature request I could easily say I dislike people making up rediculous corner cases and demanding new technology be designed for it and being deployed. Are there any authorization methods on any kind of mainstream devices that provide that capability? I tend to agree that it’s not actually useful and would be incredible hard to implement, all for a case where most people will just give in to avoid harm and forget the option, if it’s even on, exists so they can’t activate it.
- SirZimzim 9y ago
  Are you saying that I shouldn't be able to snap my fingers three times to call 911? What if I'm handcuffed?
giarc 9y ago
The 0.0001% was obviously a facetious figure. Meant to convey the fact that a duress feature whereby you cross your eyes while using FaceID to "alert the mothership" as OP said, is an extreme corner case. As another commentor said, you can't expect Apple (or any manufacturer) to build all these extreme corner cases. If you don't want to unlock your phone at the border, put it in your checked luggage or ship it to your hotel/destination. If you still think that Apple should build something like this because it's important and serves a non zero % of the population... I'd also like Apple to build... 1. FaceID that will tell me when I have something in my teeth 2. FaceID that will tell me when my hair is messy 3. an iPhone that listens to my voice and detect when I might be sick and orders cough syrup 4. an iPhone accelerometer that detects when I am limping and books a physio appointment 5. an iPhone camera that can detect when someone is watching me in the distance 6. an iPhone that will passively listen for gunfire and tell me to seek cover. See how feature requests can get out of control.

bsenftner 9y ago

Just say "its to fight terrorism" and everyone will have it. It'll be required by law soon there after.

godelski 9y ago

Not to mention incredibly difficult to pull off. It isn't like having two passwords, one distress password and one normal. An algorithm that needs to identify your face in any situation AND detect subtle characteristics? I don't see that being a reality with our current technology. Or at least without significant false positives. Though a two password feature would be nice and easy to implement.

oh_sigh 9y ago
It could be something as simple as having one eye closed when under duress(sorry, monoculars!). It only takes one unlock attempt to then lock it down. Bonus with this is that LE couldn't hold the phone up to your face while you are sleeping to unlock it.
- godelski 9y ago
  I see two problems with that. 1) Everyone now knows that the duress signal is one eye 2) people with one eye (or at least as far as the algorithm is concerned) cannot use the service. Which say, you got beat up and one eye was swelling you might accidentally set it into duress mode, when you need the full mode and you bypass the password override. I just think that a duress mode with facial recognition (that also has to account for eye-wear, makeup, and various environmental changes) is going to have a difficult time creating a duress mode. Whereas a dual password system is easy to implement.
  - dkonofalski 9y ago
    I think the point was that the user would get to choose what their duress trigger would be. For some it would be one eye, for others a tongue, for still others it might be a swipe on the phone or 3 taps and a swipe...
    - godelski 9y ago
      I think with current technology that'd make the training prohibitive unless you boiled it down to a few options. Which would still likely result in false positives. I mean, this stuff isn't magic. OR you could use the face as a username, as many suggest, and a short 4 pin password. You could easily have a duress password option (which as far as I know doesn't exist), still quickly log in, AND have fairly good security.

dkonofalski 9y ago

They wouldn't have to do any work. It'd be an OS level implementation. In the same way that you can customize what apps receive/show notifications, you could choose which apps are sandboxed in the "duress" mode. Anything outside of that would be optional security for developers to implement.