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I still wish it had an "unlock under duress" mode, where you could authenticate with a subtle difference (different gaze, alternate passcode, etc). The phone wo

I still wish it had an "unlock under duress" mode, where you could authenticate with a subtle difference (different gaze, alternate passcode, etc). The phone would unlock itself but then signal back to the mothership, cloud services and even apps that it's in "duress mode". Display in that mode should look totally normal, just some of the information missing (e.g. emails/messages/contacts from certain groups of contacts flagged as "withhold from duress mode"). This could help mitigate physical danger while preseving some of our critical information. It's akin to having multiple wallets when visiting high-theft areas. Get held up by an armed thief and give them the cash in the visible wallet, while holding back what's hidden in another location.

giarc 9y ago
That sounds like a cool feature, but probably applicable to 0.0001% of the population. Think of all the work app developers would need to do to make their app "duress compatible" in the very rare chance someone is being held at gunpoint and the person is asking to see their emails.
- surfmike 9y ago
  If the phone allowed multiple users that might be one way to do it. Just log in to another user.
  - mLuby 9y ago
    Or use all that machine learning to fake a normal user profile…
  - r1ch 9y ago
    Xiaomi's MIUI has this feature, you can use different fingerprints to directly enter a "2nd Home" or something where all apps / data is segregated. It's not really designed to be too stealthy though as there's ways to switch back to the regular homescreen.
  - mtgx 9y ago
    Yes, allow the users to create multiple accounts and also allow them to encrypt and hide those other accounts. This should also be available to fingerprint readers, as the suggest "gesture" would be even easier: just use a different fingerprint (you can set the fingerprint that everyone expects you to use as the "other fingerprint", and use some other fingerprint as your default one). It should also work with passwords, etc.
- jwr 9y ago
  How did you arrive at the "0.0001%" figure? Of what population is that a percentage? I strongly dislike this kind of waving away an important feature request. These days anybody crossing the border of the USA could be asked to unlock their phone. I'd say that's at least a larger percentage of the "population" (whatever population you meant) than "0.0001%".
  - MBCook 9y ago
    > I strongly dislike this kind of waiving away an important feature request I could easily say I dislike people making up rediculous corner cases and demanding new technology be designed for it and being deployed. Are there any authorization methods on any kind of mainstream devices that provide that capability? I tend to agree that it’s not actually useful and would be incredible hard to implement, all for a case where most people will just give in to avoid harm and forget the option, if it’s even on, exists so they can’t activate it.
    - SirZimzim 9y ago
      Are you saying that I shouldn't be able to snap my fingers three times to call 911? What if I'm handcuffed?
  - giarc 9y ago
    The 0.0001% was obviously a facetious figure. Meant to convey the fact that a duress feature whereby you cross your eyes while using FaceID to "alert the mothership" as OP said, is an extreme corner case. As another commentor said, you can't expect Apple (or any manufacturer) to build all these extreme corner cases. If you don't want to unlock your phone at the border, put it in your checked luggage or ship it to your hotel/destination. If you still think that Apple should build something like this because it's important and serves a non zero % of the population... I'd also like Apple to build... 1. FaceID that will tell me when I have something in my teeth 2. FaceID that will tell me when my hair is messy 3. an iPhone that listens to my voice and detect when I might be sick and orders cough syrup 4. an iPhone accelerometer that detects when I am limping and books a physio appointment 5. an iPhone camera that can detect when someone is watching me in the distance 6. an iPhone that will passively listen for gunfire and tell me to seek cover. See how feature requests can get out of control.
- bsenftner 9y ago
  Just say "its to fight terrorism" and everyone will have it. It'll be required by law soon there after.
- godelski 9y ago
  Not to mention incredibly difficult to pull off. It isn't like having two passwords, one distress password and one normal. An algorithm that needs to identify your face in any situation AND detect subtle characteristics? I don't see that being a reality with our current technology. Or at least without significant false positives. Though a two password feature would be nice and easy to implement.
  - oh_sigh 9y ago
    It could be something as simple as having one eye closed when under duress(sorry, monoculars!). It only takes one unlock attempt to then lock it down. Bonus with this is that LE couldn't hold the phone up to your face while you are sleeping to unlock it.
    - godelski 9y ago
      I see two problems with that. 1) Everyone now knows that the duress signal is one eye 2) people with one eye (or at least as far as the algorithm is concerned) cannot use the service. Which say, you got beat up and one eye was swelling you might accidentally set it into duress mode, when you need the full mode and you bypass the password override. I just think that a duress mode with facial recognition (that also has to account for eye-wear, makeup, and various environmental changes) is going to have a difficult time creating a duress mode. Whereas a dual password system is easy to implement.
      - dkonofalski 9y ago
        I think the point was that the user would get to choose what their duress trigger would be. For some it would be one eye, for others a tongue, for still others it might be a swipe on the phone or 3 taps and a swipe...
        godelski 9y ago
        I think with current technology that'd make the training prohibitive unless you boiled it down to a few options. Which would still likely result in false positives. I mean, this stuff isn't magic. OR you could use the face as a username, as many suggest, and a short 4 pin password. You could easily have a duress password option (which as far as I know doesn't exist), still quickly log in, AND have fairly good security.
- dkonofalski 9y ago
  They wouldn't have to do any work. It'd be an OS level implementation. In the same way that you can customize what apps receive/show notifications, you could choose which apps are sandboxed in the "duress" mode. Anything outside of that would be optional security for developers to implement.
jimmies 9y ago
Well, I understand that I kinda have to trust Apple but given Apple have my decrypted contents, shouldn't flagging something as highly sensitive be considered a bad move? There are circumstances that Apple are obliged to provide with law enforcement what they have, and can't tell you that they provided it. Having said that, nothing beats an unsynced phone with a long password. No faceId, no AI recognition, no iris, no fingerprint. Just a good old long password.
- djrogers 9y ago
  > given Apple have my decrypted contents Where exactly is Apple storing the entire content of your iOS device unencrypted? Hint - they're not... [1] https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303
davchana 9y ago
Huawei phones have this feature, alternate passcode or finger print will enter guest mode, but screen will not show any word Guest. When setting it up, mark folders, apps, things as private, and they will simply disappear from phone. Although the installation folders on SD card will not disappear.
remarkEon 9y ago
This sounds like a cool idea, but I don't think it would work in practice. The would-be thief, assuming he knows about the "duress mode" (which isn't a bold assumption considering the large black market for stolen iPhones), would recognize that you've logged in to something strange, that doesn't show any useful data. They'd just pull back the hammer on their pistol and tell you to try again.
- rgbrenner 9y ago
  It could just log in to a 2nd account... then you could go in and create files, install apps, etc.
martin_bech 9y ago
Some fingerprint access systems have this feature, where you scan a specific finger as your duress finger. If you use that finger it triggers duress mode, which can be configured as an alarm, silent alarm a simple log event or anything.
disconnected 9y ago
> I still wish it had an "unlock under duress" mode The practical applications of this are close to nil. The government will not be fooled for one second because they can cross reference enough sources to know if you are lying. All this will do is get you slapped with a felony: https://www.popehat.com/2011/03/18/just-a-friendly-reminder-please-shut-the-hell-up/ https://www.popehat.com/2011/03/18/just-a-friendly-reminder-... If it is a criminal instead, well, they don't have to tiptoe around moral, ethical or legal concerns. They already have a gun pointed at your head. You act funny, you get shot. Do you want to risk a bullet in your head? I fail to see the advantage of this mode. Ultimately it will only get you into more trouble.
- KGIII 9y ago
  In addition to this, don't keep private (and certainly not illegal) data on a compute device that you walk around with. Maybe, just maybe, treat that device as compromised from the start and treat it accordingly. The idea of using them as secure devices should probably stop, at least until they are actually secure. Moreover, if you're committing crimes, maybe don't record them in a way that is recoverable. Not that you should necessarily be a criminal but, if you're going to be a criminal, you should probably be a safe criminal. Don't text me saying you need a G for the yayo. The cops know what that means.
  - SirZimzim 9y ago
    Why carry a smartphone then? Current tech doesn't allow for regular users to secure their data in this fashion. I mean you'd have to completely log out of something like Dropbox even if you managed to keep your data remote.
    - KGIII 9y ago
      There are plenty of uses that don't require you to give them as much trust as people do. I'd never suggest banking on a smartphone, but people do. I'd use a separate email, just for the smartphone. I'd not store medical data on there. I'd not put private data on there. That doesn't mean they are useless, just that I consider them compromised right out of the box. I treat it accordingly and will recommend others do the same until they are much more secure. They are great for lots of things. Privacy and security are not among those things.
reaperducer 9y ago
>I still wish it had an "unlock under duress" mode I has something else: Don't unlock under duress. You press one of the buttons five times, and the police or a robber can't use your biometrics to unlock it. It's not the same thing as what you're looking for, but interesting still.
eeeeeeeeeeeee 9y ago
Love this idea. And doing it with your face allows much easier plausible deniability over something with your hands/touchID.

giarc 9y ago

That sounds like a cool feature, but probably applicable to 0.0001% of the population. Think of all the work app developers would need to do to make their app "duress compatible" in the very rare chance someone is being held at gunpoint and the person is asking to see their emails.

surfmike 9y ago
If the phone allowed multiple users that might be one way to do it. Just log in to another user.
- mLuby 9y ago
  Or use all that machine learning to fake a normal user profile…
- r1ch 9y ago
  Xiaomi's MIUI has this feature, you can use different fingerprints to directly enter a "2nd Home" or something where all apps / data is segregated. It's not really designed to be too stealthy though as there's ways to switch back to the regular homescreen.
- mtgx 9y ago
  Yes, allow the users to create multiple accounts and also allow them to encrypt and hide those other accounts. This should also be available to fingerprint readers, as the suggest "gesture" would be even easier: just use a different fingerprint (you can set the fingerprint that everyone expects you to use as the "other fingerprint", and use some other fingerprint as your default one). It should also work with passwords, etc.
jwr 9y ago
How did you arrive at the "0.0001%" figure? Of what population is that a percentage? I strongly dislike this kind of waving away an important feature request. These days anybody crossing the border of the USA could be asked to unlock their phone. I'd say that's at least a larger percentage of the "population" (whatever population you meant) than "0.0001%".
- MBCook 9y ago
  > I strongly dislike this kind of waiving away an important feature request I could easily say I dislike people making up rediculous corner cases and demanding new technology be designed for it and being deployed. Are there any authorization methods on any kind of mainstream devices that provide that capability? I tend to agree that it’s not actually useful and would be incredible hard to implement, all for a case where most people will just give in to avoid harm and forget the option, if it’s even on, exists so they can’t activate it.
  - SirZimzim 9y ago
    Are you saying that I shouldn't be able to snap my fingers three times to call 911? What if I'm handcuffed?
- giarc 9y ago
  The 0.0001% was obviously a facetious figure. Meant to convey the fact that a duress feature whereby you cross your eyes while using FaceID to "alert the mothership" as OP said, is an extreme corner case. As another commentor said, you can't expect Apple (or any manufacturer) to build all these extreme corner cases. If you don't want to unlock your phone at the border, put it in your checked luggage or ship it to your hotel/destination. If you still think that Apple should build something like this because it's important and serves a non zero % of the population... I'd also like Apple to build... 1. FaceID that will tell me when I have something in my teeth 2. FaceID that will tell me when my hair is messy 3. an iPhone that listens to my voice and detect when I might be sick and orders cough syrup 4. an iPhone accelerometer that detects when I am limping and books a physio appointment 5. an iPhone camera that can detect when someone is watching me in the distance 6. an iPhone that will passively listen for gunfire and tell me to seek cover. See how feature requests can get out of control.
bsenftner 9y ago
Just say "its to fight terrorism" and everyone will have it. It'll be required by law soon there after.
godelski 9y ago
Not to mention incredibly difficult to pull off. It isn't like having two passwords, one distress password and one normal. An algorithm that needs to identify your face in any situation AND detect subtle characteristics? I don't see that being a reality with our current technology. Or at least without significant false positives. Though a two password feature would be nice and easy to implement.
- oh_sigh 9y ago
  It could be something as simple as having one eye closed when under duress(sorry, monoculars!). It only takes one unlock attempt to then lock it down. Bonus with this is that LE couldn't hold the phone up to your face while you are sleeping to unlock it.
  - godelski 9y ago
    I see two problems with that. 1) Everyone now knows that the duress signal is one eye 2) people with one eye (or at least as far as the algorithm is concerned) cannot use the service. Which say, you got beat up and one eye was swelling you might accidentally set it into duress mode, when you need the full mode and you bypass the password override. I just think that a duress mode with facial recognition (that also has to account for eye-wear, makeup, and various environmental changes) is going to have a difficult time creating a duress mode. Whereas a dual password system is easy to implement.
    - dkonofalski 9y ago
      I think the point was that the user would get to choose what their duress trigger would be. For some it would be one eye, for others a tongue, for still others it might be a swipe on the phone or 3 taps and a swipe...
      - godelski 9y ago
        I think with current technology that'd make the training prohibitive unless you boiled it down to a few options. Which would still likely result in false positives. I mean, this stuff isn't magic. OR you could use the face as a username, as many suggest, and a short 4 pin password. You could easily have a duress password option (which as far as I know doesn't exist), still quickly log in, AND have fairly good security.
dkonofalski 9y ago
They wouldn't have to do any work. It'd be an OS level implementation. In the same way that you can customize what apps receive/show notifications, you could choose which apps are sandboxed in the "duress" mode. Anything outside of that would be optional security for developers to implement.

jimmies 9y ago

Well, I understand that I kinda have to trust Apple but given Apple have my decrypted contents, shouldn't flagging something as highly sensitive be considered a bad move? There are circumstances that Apple are obliged to provide with law enforcement what they have, and can't tell you that they provided it. Having said that, nothing beats an unsynced phone with a long password. No faceId, no AI recognition, no iris, no fingerprint. Just a good old long password.

djrogers 9y ago
> given Apple have my decrypted contents Where exactly is Apple storing the entire content of your iOS device unencrypted? Hint - they're not... [1] https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303

davchana 9y ago

Huawei phones have this feature, alternate passcode or finger print will enter guest mode, but screen will not show any word Guest. When setting it up, mark folders, apps, things as private, and they will simply disappear from phone. Although the installation folders on SD card will not disappear.

remarkEon 9y ago

This sounds like a cool idea, but I don't think it would work in practice. The would-be thief, assuming he knows about the "duress mode" (which isn't a bold assumption considering the large black market for stolen iPhones), would recognize that you've logged in to something strange, that doesn't show any useful data. They'd just pull back the hammer on their pistol and tell you to try again.

rgbrenner 9y ago
It could just log in to a 2nd account... then you could go in and create files, install apps, etc.

martin_bech 9y ago

Some fingerprint access systems have this feature, where you scan a specific finger as your duress finger. If you use that finger it triggers duress mode, which can be configured as an alarm, silent alarm a simple log event or anything.

disconnected 9y ago

> I still wish it had an "unlock under duress" mode The practical applications of this are close to nil. The government will not be fooled for one second because they can cross reference enough sources to know if you are lying. All this will do is get you slapped with a felony: https://www.popehat.com/2011/03/18/just-a-friendly-reminder-please-shut-the-hell-up/ https://www.popehat.com/2011/03/18/just-a-friendly-reminder-... If it is a criminal instead, well, they don't have to tiptoe around moral, ethical or legal concerns. They already have a gun pointed at your head. You act funny, you get shot. Do you want to risk a bullet in your head? I fail to see the advantage of this mode. Ultimately it will only get you into more trouble.

KGIII 9y ago
In addition to this, don't keep private (and certainly not illegal) data on a compute device that you walk around with. Maybe, just maybe, treat that device as compromised from the start and treat it accordingly. The idea of using them as secure devices should probably stop, at least until they are actually secure. Moreover, if you're committing crimes, maybe don't record them in a way that is recoverable. Not that you should necessarily be a criminal but, if you're going to be a criminal, you should probably be a safe criminal. Don't text me saying you need a G for the yayo. The cops know what that means.
- SirZimzim 9y ago
  Why carry a smartphone then? Current tech doesn't allow for regular users to secure their data in this fashion. I mean you'd have to completely log out of something like Dropbox even if you managed to keep your data remote.
  - KGIII 9y ago
    There are plenty of uses that don't require you to give them as much trust as people do. I'd never suggest banking on a smartphone, but people do. I'd use a separate email, just for the smartphone. I'd not store medical data on there. I'd not put private data on there. That doesn't mean they are useless, just that I consider them compromised right out of the box. I treat it accordingly and will recommend others do the same until they are much more secure. They are great for lots of things. Privacy and security are not among those things.

reaperducer 9y ago

>I still wish it had an "unlock under duress" mode I has something else: Don't unlock under duress. You press one of the buttons five times, and the police or a robber can't use your biometrics to unlock it. It's not the same thing as what you're looking for, but interesting still.

eeeeeeeeeeeee 9y ago

Love this idea. And doing it with your face allows much easier plausible deniability over something with your hands/touchID.