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Nestlé Makes Billions Bottling Water It Pays Nearly Nothing For
- aurelium 9y agoThe plant locations should probably tighten up their water laws so that they're getting at least something back from Nestle, but the real wrongdoers in this scheme might be the consumers ... There's a worrying number of people in the world living in places with perfectly potable water, but who insist on drinking only environmentally-damaging bottled water through some superstitious belief that it's better for them. If Nestle didn't have such a lucrative market to fleece, Nestle's profits would be far less impressive.
- s0rce 9y agoAs with many things it comes down to educating people, sadly this turns out to be quite challenging.
- kakarot 9y agoI don't think blaming the uninformed public for the actions of multi-billion dollar conglomerates with politicians in their pockets and multiple avenues of propaganda at their exposure is ever the correct answer. You can blame someone for being stupid, but you can't blame them for being ignorant after soaking in loads of bullshit throughout their lives. Blame the ones spewing the bullshit.
- prostoalex 9y agoThey do mention consumers "worry about the safety of tap water after the high-profile contamination in Flint", so I am guessing people are a bit unwilling to take someone's word on "perfectly potable water" without seeing the proof. Or rather, it's "perfectly potable" until oops, the past few years. When I was in Stockholm I remember seeing some sort of artsy indicator of water/air quality that runs 24/7 right on the public boardwalk. We need something similar in every town - a constant feed of water quality and ppm measurements, perhaps with a bit of crowdsourcing thrown in, similar to what Wunderground does with weather.
- grondilu 9y ago> They do mention consumers "worry about the safety of tap water after the high-profile contamination in Flint", so I am guessing people are a bit unwilling to take someone's word on "perfectly potable water" without seeing the proof. This. I only drink bottled water. I just have very hard times trusting water which has been flowing in pipes. It may be irrational, but we're talking about a substance we drink every day. It's tough to overcome irrational fears about it.
- craftyguy 9y agoThe water in your bottles comes from somewhere, and it's almost never the mountain springs that bottlers want you to believe. In many cases, it is from municipal water supplies (i.e. it flows through pipes).
- suby 9y agoIs there not also a health risk from consuming water that's been bottled in plastic?
- strictnein 9y agoNo.
- loeg 9y agoThe bottled water is just somewhere else's tap water.
- KGIII 9y agoPoland Spring, owned by Nestlé now, may actually come from a spring and may actually not be municipal tap water. It depends on which plant it came from. There is a plant not too far from here. It's too long to get into tonight, but quite a few people are unhappy with the deal that was made with Nestlé. Rumors abound about corruption, bribery, and dishonesty. It's a small town so I'm not sure what will have made it into the newspapers, but the town is Kingfield, Maine. Some of the people are pretty unhappy.
- danjast11 9y agoBut the reason people believe bottled water is better for them is because of companies like Nestle which created and marketed that idea to consumers.
- Larrikin 9y agoA lot of tap water is simply terrible. I've lived in a few places now in Chicago and the water hasn't been drinkable without running it through a Brita filter. First place I was in the water was white.
- raarts 9y agoI find the chloride taste of tap water disgusting, that's why when in the US I drink bottled water. Same holds for soda drinks in restaurants etc. Always ask for bottles.
- Chathamization 9y ago> There's a worrying number of people in the world living in places with perfectly potable water, but who insist on drinking only environmentally-damaging bottled water through some superstitious belief that it's better for them. It always seems odd that bottled water gets trashed a lot more than bottled soda, when soda is both worse for the consumer's health, and probably has a higher environmental footprint (since it's not just the water, but the water plus whatever sweeteners and chemicals get added). True, soda doesn't taste the same as tap water, but bottled water doesn't taste the same as tap water a lot of the time, either. Some people also prefer the convenience of buying a bottle of water, and it would seem strange to say: "Hey, it's fine to buy something in the bottle if you're doing so for the flavor, but if you're doing so for the sake of convenience, that's terrible."
- Johnny555 9y agoIf every house had a Coke faucet that could supply limitless supplies of soda nearly free, your argument might be more appropriate. You'll find plenty of people arguing against sodas in threads that talk about soda, this one, however is about the water, no one is suggesting that soda is a better alternative.
- Chathamization 9y agoYou seem to have missed the two reasons I gave for why people may want to buy bottled water. Yes, people have faucets, but the water coming out of your tap often tastes different from the water you buy (yes, it might also be coming out of a tap, but there are many taps across the U.S. with varying taste). And there are various levels of purification - if people really believe that tap water is exactly the same as purified water, then home water filters are an enormous scam. But I've never heard anyone argue that. Another reason people might buy a bottle of water is because of convenience - if someone's taking a long drive, for example, it's easier to buy a bottle of water at a gas station and drink it periodically than pull over every time they want to drink. The reason I bring up soda is because there's sometimes less animosity towards soda than bottled water. Some schools will even ban bottled water, but allow bottled soda[1] - naturally leading to an increase in the less healthy option. [1] http://grist.org/article/plastic-water-bottle-ban-leads-to-unexpected-results/ http://grist.org/article/plastic-water-bottle-ban-leads-to-u...
- rhino369 9y agoWater should have a cost when it is scarce, but water isn't scarce in Michigan. It should be free. Complaining about bottling water in Michigan is like complaining about a company compressing air. The idea that public rights shouldn't be sold on the private market is lunacy. Nestle selling me a S. Pelagrino bottle doesn't impact an African kid getting water even a little bit. It's like arguing we should ban farming because nobody should starve. edit:should be nearly free
- em3rgent0rdr 9y agoagreed. In fact we should be celebrating water bottlers for providing utility for humans by transferring water from where it is plentiful to where it is actually scare, in an easily consumable container.
- daveguy 9y agoNow, if it was in an easily consumable container, that would be something to celebrate. Probably not possible, chemically. But imagine if you could package water and some food calories together and ship it.
- shrumm 9y agothis has been done/ tried. someone's already made an edible water bottle http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2017/04/12/edible-water-bottle-could-put-end-plastic-packaging/ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2017/04/12/edible-wate... - the issue is scale. No new startup can hope to match the scale and distribution the larger companies have. I think the best case scenario is for the likes of Nestle to see these new packaging types as a good investment to boost sales and start adopting them too. Hopefully the more eco friendly options could also be produced in 25 seconds!
- Pinckney 9y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edible_water_bottle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edible_water_bottle
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- MengerSponge 9y agoPaying nearly nothing for water is not as bad as paying effectively nothing for labor. You shouldn't be buying products made by slavers. https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2016/feb/01/nestle-slavery-thailand-fighting-child-labour-lawsuit-ivory-coast https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2016/feb/01...
- fblp 9y agoThe facts are scattered throughout the article but here's one of the more shocking: "In San Bernardino, Calif., Nestlé has long paid the U.S. Forest Service an annual rate of $524 to extract about 30 million gallons, even during droughts".
- dwaltrip 9y agoOne day I'll try learning about California water rights... or perhaps ignorance is bliss for this one.
- sjwright 9y agoAnd I'm sure the Coca-Cola plant down the road pays $524 as well, but for some reason plain water (which is basically the same product minus carbonation and sugar syrup) is somehow a unique moral catastrophe.
- ehnto 9y agoThe CEO claims that water should be treated more like a commodity yet they are happy to exploit this. Perhaps it is because if this kind of exploit that he feels so strongly about water as a commodity.
- toephu2 9y agoSan Francisco Bay Area tap water is safe to drink and is held to a lot higher safety standard than bottled water. Also the source of most bottled-water is no different than the source for tap. Bottled-water is often priced at a 2000%+ markup. http://sfwater.org/index.aspx?page=447 http://sfwater.org/index.aspx?page=447 https://www.quora.com/Is-San-Francisco-city-tap-water-safe-to-drink https://www.quora.com/Is-San-Francisco-city-tap-water-safe-t...
- fleitz 9y agoIt also tastes like crap. In Vancouver the tap water tastes as good as bottled. The only thing better is fresh from a mountain creek.
- qq66 9y agoMost bottled "spring water" is tap water that is pumped in a few yards away from the "spring" and then bubbles up, legally now "spring water."
- KGIII 9y agoI don't believe there's any legal requirement for that. I know there is no legally required notification of the water's source, as that was a bit of a debate topic locally and just a few years ago.
- tylersmith 9y agoJust a couple of weeks ago people in Alameda couldn't even bathe in the tap water. That's not a great testament to the quality of bay area water. https://alamedaca.gov/wateralert https://alamedaca.gov/wateralert
- Animats 9y agoThat affected about 230 homes who were not EBMUD customers. It's fixed now. Somebody connected an irrigation well to the potable water system. (Agricultural areas often have both non-potable and potable water systems. Stanford does, incidentally. Stanford has a private water system, with Felt Lake as a reservoir. It's mostly used to irrigate the golf course and lawns.) [1] https://alamedaca.gov/waterfaq https://alamedaca.gov/waterfaq
- loeg 9y agoOr phrased another way: Consumers are willing to pay billions for nearly free tap water in bottle form. Why? Beats me.
- sjwright 9y agoYou're buying convenience in a relatively sterile container, with refrigerated contents. Physically, that bottle of water is 99% identical to the bottle of Diet Coke sitting next to it, but the logic of that product is never questioned.
- cassowary 9y agoThat's hardly true. People criticise soft drinks all the time. In any case, the difference between a cake with arsenic and a cake without arsenic is going to be significantly less than 1%, but I'm going to make my decision based on that less-than-one-percent.
- Chathamization 9y ago> People criticise soft drinks all the time. For health reasons. They're very rarely criticized for their environmental impact, when they're impact is almost certainly greater than bottled water (since they're not just water and a plastic bottle, but water, a plastic bottle, plus sweeteners and additives). Some schools have banned bottled waters but allowed bottled soft drinks.
- simias 9y agoI would question it if most people had a tap dispensing cheap Diet Coke at home. That's a strange comparison to make.
- sjwright 9y agoI think it's strange to not make that comparison. We accept the utility of bottled soda but not bottled water? What kind of fucked up consumerist world do you live in?
- abstrct 9y agoThis is because governing bodies don't want to put a price on water. Yes, there needs to be another way to ensure Nestle is not taking advantage of natural resources, but setting a precedent for charging for water isn't a great option either.
- dilemma 9y agoPeople aren't paying for the water. They are paying for packaging and distribution and its worth it. You literally can't refute this.
- dingo_bat 9y agoHow horrible for a company to make a good profit!
- winterswift 9y agoInteresting to see this brought up again by Businessweek but this is far from news – Nestlé and PepsiCo were featured in the 2009 documentary Tapped, which came to many of the same conclusions, and brought up other potential health issues with bottled water, such as the use Bisphenol-A (BPA) in bottle plastics.
- hkmurakami 9y agoSurely they pay some amount for marketing, distribution, inventory, production, capital equipment investment, etc. And when we buy bottled water, we aren't really buying water. We're buying some combination of marketing and convenience.
- briantakita 9y agoMunicipalities would do well to remove sodium fluoride & other industrial by-products...I mean "health additives" http://fluoridealert.org/studies/brain01/ http://fluoridealert.org/studies/brain01/ http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/19/health/fluoride-iq-neurotoxin-study/index.html http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/19/health/fluoride-iq-neurotoxin-...
- macawfish 9y agoYou wouldn't believe how controversial that is in the U.S. self styled rationalists will call you a quack for even mentioning fluoride. Meanwhile, our internal organs are getting nicely calcified like a bright, shiny american dental association smile.
- nwah1 9y agoArterial calcification is largely reversible with healthy lifestyle, adequate vitamin K etc. Unless you are talking about pineal calcification, of which there doesn't seem to be much in the way of provable negative consequences within normal ranges and is indeed mostly mentioned by new age psychedelic gurus. And I'm not sure why we should assume fluoride is the main culprit for any of this. But sure, there's a dose-response curve for just about everything.
- macawfish 9y agoHave you read the Jennifer Luke study? The pineal gland is the only organ in the brain that is not behind the blood brain barrier. It is responsible for regulating our circadian rhythm. Melatonin synthesis is a core aspect of our health. Jennifer Luke found that in gerbils, high fluoride hastened female sexual development and was associated with a diminished circadian rhythm. Even if fluoride levels in water are "fine" (as in "deal with it.") for most people, its mass medication and there are likely people who are adversely affected by it. It's absolutely unnecessary. http://www.slweb.org/luke-1997.html http://www.slweb.org/luke-1997.html
- gerdesj 9y ago"with a footprint about the size of Buckingham Palace" Not an authorised unit. See: https://www.theregister.co.uk/Design/page/reg-standards-converter.html https://www.theregister.co.uk/Design/page/reg-standards-conv... 1 Buck Pal area is roughly equal to 3.706 MicroWales, 77,000 sq m, 19 acres or 19 football (soccer) pitches.
- walterstucco 9y agoThere's a BBC series of documentaries called "The Foods that make billions" that covers this topic. Episode one is about liquid gold: bottled water. Nestlé is just one of them, Coca Cola is another one. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00w8cll http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00w8cll
- mattmanser 9y agoWhat's the problem? I buy bottled water as a drink on the go. I'm perfectly happy drinking tap water that's been bottled. If I've got the choice between a fizzy drink or water, I usually prefer water, thanks. When I was a kid in the 80s there used to be public water fountains, now there aren't. I think we're all a little more germ paranoid these days too, so i doubt people would even use them if given a choice to buy a bottle of water for a £1 or use a fountain for free. I mean the guy argues against himself: Compared with the water needs of agriculture and energy production, the bottled water business is barely responsible for a trickle; in Michigan, it accounts for less than 1 percent of total water usage The only thing I wish was better was that it wasn't plastic bottles, but I always recycle them if I can.
- roceasta 9y agoI take a jam jar containing tap water when out and about ('preserving jar' in US I think). Being made of glass it doesn't leach chemicals plus it cleans conveniently in the dishwasher. It fits fine in a backpack and you can protect it in a sock if there's a danger of it rolling around, say in the boot of a car.
- _Codemonkeyism 9y agoI have a bridge to sell you.
- nwah1 9y agoThat root of that phrase was predicated on people trying to get rich like bridge owners did in times past, although obviously was used by con artists to trick people much like email scams now. But it is very relevant. Privatization of public access routes is logically equivalent to privatization of natural resources, and there's no fair way to justify either, there's just the historical application of violence and subsequent commodification. But commodification of the commons is approximately as relevant to the concept of a free market as markets for slaves... which is to say not at all, and actually contradicts it.
- _Codemonkeyism 9y agoIn Germany I usually drink water from the tap, whenever in the US[1] tap water is so full of Chlorine I can't get near it. Even more repulsive when Coke smells heavily of Chlorine. [1] I only have east and west coast experience
- Dowwie 9y agoI grew up drinking the chlorinated tap water of New Jersey. It never tasted good. Water filtration systems, such as under-sink systems, solve that problem.
- Dowwie 9y agoHow many people here installed and use an under-sink water filtration system or full-home system? I've been using them for about 12 years, re-filling liter-sized nalgene bottles as needed. For a long time, I've wondered whether a filtration system in every home would change people's water consumption habits: would people still buy bottled water despite having superior-quality water available from a tap? As the expression goes-- You can lead a horse to water but you can't teach it to drink.
- macmar 9y agoWe have the same problem here in Brazil in São Lourenço city, near to São Paulo. Nestlé has acquired a large aquatic park and now sale the water and accelerate the process to extract water and with this eliminate the natural minerals proprieties on the water killing all the ecosystem.
- tjpnz 9y agoNew Zealand has some of the same issues when it comes to access. There's recently been a massive influx of foreign companies who've been granted consent to extract near limitless quantities of water from aquifers, giving back very little to the communities they operate in. Sadly there seems to be very little political will to change this.
- dcassiano 9y agoI saw the same at my hometown (São Lourenço-MG, Brazil). It's not fresh news Nestlé doing this. https://www.cartacapital.com.br/sociedade/em-guerra-contra-a-nestle-3372.html https://www.cartacapital.com.br/sociedade/em-guerra-contra-a... (pt-BR)
- jgalt212 9y agoFacebook/Goggle makes billions bottling information it pays nearly nothing for.
- jasonmaydie 9y agoI still don't understand why cities are giving out their water for free to multi-billion dollar companies.
- Lazare 9y agoLong, long long article, and then: > Compared with the water needs of agriculture and energy production, the bottled water business is barely responsible for a trickle; in Michigan, it accounts for less than 1 percent of total water usage Right. So all this stuff about water shortages, the amount of water being used, the amount being charged for the water is meaningless. The entire article is pointless. (I also loved the way they tried to blame Pakistan's poor infrastructure on Nestlé.)
- notruthallowed 9y agoso?