5 ms·

No, the W3C is the web. You'd be forking to what? This was basically wanted by Firefox, Apple, Microsoft and Google. They are the modern web. Trying to go agai

No, the W3C is the web. You'd be forking to what? This was basically wanted by Firefox, Apple, Microsoft and Google. They are the modern web. Trying to go against them is how we ended up with XHTML, a standard no-one really wanted, or implemented.

hughw 9y ago
W3C is not the web. Check out the history and motivation behind WHATWG. They led on HTML5, then W3C followed.
justinjlynn 9y ago
Actually, no. The Web is more an API for browsers at this point than anything. The W3C is, well, secondary, if browser manufacturers get behind another body - it'll happen.
crabasa 9y ago
The W3C is not the web. Look no further than the good work the WHATWG did to move the web forward while the W3C & Microsoft were holding the web back in the early 2000's.
- sgift 9y ago
  > Look no further than the good work the WHATWG did And who was WHATWG? Oh right, exactly the same companies that now voted for DRM as W3C standard. And why could they do WHATWG? Because they are the vendors of the majority browsers.
  - dannyobrien 9y ago
    WHATWG did not include EME in the WHATWG HTML living standard, and supported EFF's proposal to protect security researchers: https://blog.whatwg.org/drm-and-web-security https://blog.whatwg.org/drm-and-web-security Ian Hickson also came out strongly against DRM when this whole debate started: https://plus.google.com/+IanHickson/posts/iPmatxBYuj2 https://plus.google.com/+IanHickson/posts/iPmatxBYuj2
    - goialoq 9y ago
      Ian Hickson is opposed to centralized control of content on the web, but is staunchly committed to centrally controlling humans' right to have children via intentional genocide! http://ln.hixie.ch/?start=1023585606&count=1 http://ln.hixie.ch/?start=1023585606&count=1
epistasis 9y ago
The W3C has pretty much zero power to prescribe what happens on the web. Look at the history of their standards, and the direction that the web has actually gone. The power for where the web goes is in the hands of web developers and browser developers. The W3C documents some things, but they are not a major player.
nebabyte 9y ago
> No, the W3C is the web. "L'etat, c'est moi" - until a new state comes to power. The web is its users.
josteink 9y ago
> This was basically wanted by Firefox, Apple, Microsoft and Google. This was absolutely NOT wanted by Firefox. They were the only browser to represent the users in this fight. Don't put Mozilla in the same group as those other traitors.
- wolfgke 9y ago
  > They were the only browser to represent the users in this fight. They were folding, too.
  - xeromal 9y ago
    If they didn't fold, they'd just lose more users to other browsers. Sometimes it's wise to retreat or lose a battle to stay in the fight.
    - wolfgke 9y ago
      > If they didn't fold, they'd just lose more users to other browsers. They rather lost a unique selling point. Not implementing EME/DRM is a form of protection of the user against malware.
      - sp332 9y ago
        They make EME-free builds. e.g. http://download.cdn.mozilla.net/pub/firefox/releases/55.0/ http://download.cdn.mozilla.net/pub/firefox/releases/55.0/
        wolfgke 9y ago
        > They make EME-free builds. e.g. http://download.cdn.mozilla.net/pub/firefox/releases/55.0/ http://download.cdn.mozilla.net/pub/firefox/releases/55.0/ A well-hidden build of Firefox to silence the people who accuse the Mozilla Foundation of betraying their principles...
        9y ago
azakai 9y ago
> This was basically wanted by Firefox, Apple, Microsoft and Google. Not accurate. EME was created and driven by Google, Microsoft and Netflix, as you can see here: https://www.w3.org/TR/encrypted-media/ https://www.w3.org/TR/encrypted-media/ Firefox opposed it very strongly, and only gave in and implemented it when it was clear that all other browsers were behind it - at that point the battle was already lost. When the EFF says > The W3C process has been abused by companies that made their fortunes by upsetting the established order, and now, thanks to EME, they’ll be able to ensure no one ever subjects them to the same innovative pressures. It is safe to assume the companies the EFF refers to are Google and Microsoft.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
hellbanner 9y ago
Well, its corporations with money that make communication technologies. The history of wide scale, maintainable, free speech just hasn't worked. Ever. Why should computers be any different?

hughw 9y ago

W3C is not the web. Check out the history and motivation behind WHATWG. They led on HTML5, then W3C followed.

justinjlynn 9y ago

Actually, no. The Web is more an API for browsers at this point than anything. The W3C is, well, secondary, if browser manufacturers get behind another body - it'll happen.

crabasa 9y ago

The W3C is not the web. Look no further than the good work the WHATWG did to move the web forward while the W3C & Microsoft were holding the web back in the early 2000's.

sgift 9y ago
> Look no further than the good work the WHATWG did And who was WHATWG? Oh right, exactly the same companies that now voted for DRM as W3C standard. And why could they do WHATWG? Because they are the vendors of the majority browsers.
- dannyobrien 9y ago
  WHATWG did not include EME in the WHATWG HTML living standard, and supported EFF's proposal to protect security researchers: https://blog.whatwg.org/drm-and-web-security https://blog.whatwg.org/drm-and-web-security Ian Hickson also came out strongly against DRM when this whole debate started: https://plus.google.com/+IanHickson/posts/iPmatxBYuj2 https://plus.google.com/+IanHickson/posts/iPmatxBYuj2
  - goialoq 9y ago
    Ian Hickson is opposed to centralized control of content on the web, but is staunchly committed to centrally controlling humans' right to have children via intentional genocide! http://ln.hixie.ch/?start=1023585606&count=1 http://ln.hixie.ch/?start=1023585606&count=1

epistasis 9y ago

The W3C has pretty much zero power to prescribe what happens on the web. Look at the history of their standards, and the direction that the web has actually gone. The power for where the web goes is in the hands of web developers and browser developers. The W3C documents some things, but they are not a major player.

nebabyte 9y ago

> No, the W3C is the web. "L'etat, c'est moi" - until a new state comes to power. The web is its users.

josteink 9y ago

> This was basically wanted by Firefox, Apple, Microsoft and Google. This was absolutely NOT wanted by Firefox. They were the only browser to represent the users in this fight. Don't put Mozilla in the same group as those other traitors.

wolfgke 9y ago
> They were the only browser to represent the users in this fight. They were folding, too.
- xeromal 9y ago
  If they didn't fold, they'd just lose more users to other browsers. Sometimes it's wise to retreat or lose a battle to stay in the fight.
  - wolfgke 9y ago
    > If they didn't fold, they'd just lose more users to other browsers. They rather lost a unique selling point. Not implementing EME/DRM is a form of protection of the user against malware.
    - sp332 9y ago
      They make EME-free builds. e.g. http://download.cdn.mozilla.net/pub/firefox/releases/55.0/ http://download.cdn.mozilla.net/pub/firefox/releases/55.0/
      - wolfgke 9y ago
        > They make EME-free builds. e.g. http://download.cdn.mozilla.net/pub/firefox/releases/55.0/ http://download.cdn.mozilla.net/pub/firefox/releases/55.0/ A well-hidden build of Firefox to silence the people who accuse the Mozilla Foundation of betraying their principles...
        9y ago

azakai 9y ago

> This was basically wanted by Firefox, Apple, Microsoft and Google. Not accurate. EME was created and driven by Google, Microsoft and Netflix, as you can see here: https://www.w3.org/TR/encrypted-media/ https://www.w3.org/TR/encrypted-media/ Firefox opposed it very strongly, and only gave in and implemented it when it was clear that all other browsers were behind it - at that point the battle was already lost. When the EFF says > The W3C process has been abused by companies that made their fortunes by upsetting the established order, and now, thanks to EME, they’ll be able to ensure no one ever subjects them to the same innovative pressures. It is safe to assume the companies the EFF refers to are Google and Microsoft.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

hellbanner 9y ago

Well, its corporations with money that make communication technologies. The history of wide scale, maintainable, free speech just hasn't worked. Ever. Why should computers be any different?