20 ms·

Thinkpad X62

474 points by mparramon 9y ago

macspoofing 9y ago
> I forgot how much I preferred 4:3 screens for work. I didn't. I love 4:3 on laptops. I wish more people would rediscover it.
- josteink 9y ago
  This was actually one of my reasons to abandon Android tablets. I wanted 4:3, but all that was offered was 16:9 or 16:10.
  - ch4ck 9y ago
    Samsung Galaxy Tab S2 2048x1536 Samsung Galaxy Tab S3 2048x1536 Nexus 9 2048x1536
    - josteink 9y ago
      I have the Nexus 9 and that was the final nail in the coffin ;)
  - AdmiralAsshat 9y ago
    The Pixel C had something closer to a 4:3, if memory serves.[0] [0] The wiki page said it's actually a 1:√2 ratio.
    - josteink 9y ago
      It was priced absurdly high for a tablet on a platform with terrible in-app tablet-support though.
- AdmiralAsshat 9y ago
  The Chromebook Pixel line features 4:3. It really is quite nice for browsing pages, reading content, coding, etc.
- jajern 9y ago
  What are the selling points? It's been a really, really long time since I used one but I feel like side by side work would be constrained by it.
  - bhauer 9y ago
    Generally speaking you're only going to be able to fit two source files side-by-side on a ~13 inch laptop screen regardless of the aspect ratio. So the advantage of a 4:3 or 3:2 (which is what Microsoft's Surface line uses) is a little more height and a little less width than 16:9. Usually this means taking away some of the unused gutter space to the right of each source file you have open (less horizontal space) and giving you more visible lines of code (more vertical space). The bottom line: more visibility of source code.
- Asooka 9y ago
  I fear this battle is already lost, though. Lots of IDEs expect wide screens and place plenty of tabs on the side of the code window. On a laptop, it probably sucks, but on a desktop, you can just have a widescreen monitor that's taller and wider (physically and in resolution) than the 4:3 of old, so you basically have a 4:3 code window with a bunch of toolbars on the sides.
  - Zak 9y ago
    On a desktop, you can fairly easily obtain displays that will fill your entire field of view, so the aspect ratio doesn't matter so much. When it comes to laptops, there's much more of an optimization problem; it therefore seems strange to me that there's so little variety on the market, as different users certainly have different needs.
- bpye 9y ago
  The Surface line have 3:2, it's definitely a step up from 16:9.
  - redacted 9y ago
    Yeah the aspect ratio ended up being one of my favorite things about the Surface Book (surprisingly enough, to me)
StudentStuff 9y ago
This is why I've been buying every well priced Thinkpad on Craigslist. From a couple T420's to the occasional T440 (for $70 to $100), with a few librebootable T400's and T60's thrown in for $10 to $20, I seem to hold these laptops for a short duration before friends or family buy them off me for $5 to $15 more. Plus, when anything breaks, parts are cheap and plentiful. I even upgraded a T440 for my SO with a 1080p IPS screen and a few other bits, its an impressively nice machine all specced out!
- yoodenvranx 9y ago
  > This is why I've been buying every well priced Thinkpad on Craigslist. From a couple T420's to the occasional T440 (for $70 to $100), with a few librebootable T400's and T60's thrown in for $10 to $20, I seem to hold these laptops for a short duration before friends or family buy them off me for $5 to $15 more. Over here in Germany you unfortunately pay 100 euro for a T61 and 100-300 euro for a T420. If I could get a T440 for just 100 euro I would buy it in an instant.
sapphire_tomb 9y ago
I went out shopping a few weekends ago to see what the current offering on laptops looks like. I ended up in an Apple store, and after only a few seconds fiddling with a MacBook, I walked straight back out again. That keyboard is terrible. I don't care how many other things Apple's line has going for it - if the primary interface to the device is that bad, I just can't imagine using it. I wish there were more laptops out there with the old style ThinkPad keyboard on them :(
- ergo14 9y ago
  I like the KB on the dell latitude line.
  - MrMid 9y ago
    I don't like these so much. I have an E7240 for a year now, and while it's great compared to most other laptops, I still prefer the keyboard of my ThinkPad X61s. When I tried the X230 keyboard, it also felt somewhat better than that of my Latitude. That said, when I used Lenovo Yoga for a while, I was just surprised how bad a keyboard could be. I love my Latitude. EDIT: and I miss the TrackPoint, although with a touchscreen it doesn't matter so much.
    - ergo14 9y ago
      My latitude E5470 has a backlit kb with trackpoint, I had to pay for it though.
- mrmondo 9y ago
  On my work desktop (iMac 5k) I use a Das ultimate mechanical keyboard, I’ve been a big fan of Das keyboards with Blue or Brown switches for many years, I purchased a MacBook 12” Retina when they came out and it certainly took some adjusting to get used to the new keyboard but - after a week or so I really, truly liked it, I found myself typing very fast will a low error rate, when the new MacBook Pro came out a few months back I noted that they used a new generation of the same low profile keys that the MacBook 12” had, again I really enjoyed it because I was used to new style of key mechanism thanks to having the 12” for some time, I ended up buying a 13” MBP and oh my I’d almost go as far as saying I love the keyboard. Yes it’s very different from both mechanical keyboards such as my Das keyboards and legacy laptop keyboard designs and I think after a short adjustment period many people would likely enjoy the feel of the keys more than legacy / previous designs - it really grows on you.
chrissnell 9y ago
I love these Thinkpad mods but don't have the time or patience to do one myself. Instead, I did a little research and settled on the T470s as my new laptop. You won't read about it much on the Lenovo boards. It's not the fastest; that title goes to their huge desktop replacement beasts. It's not the sexiest and thinnest--the X1 beats it there. It is, however, well-equipped with a great display and fast-enough CPU, and it's quite thin. It has all the latest tech, including NVME disk and HiDPI display options. I run Arch Linux and the i3 window manager on mine and it's just perfect.
- bluedino 9y ago
  The T4x0 is the star of the lineup. You can get last year's model dirt cheap through the Lenovo Outlet or refurbished ($500+ US). They finally give you a good screen (remember the T430 and earlier days? Or even the recent 1366x768 screens?), battery is great, the chiclet keyboard isn't as bad as people try to make you believe, and not only did they leave the TrackPoint on, the TouchPads are pretty decent even if they aren't to Apple's level. Easily repairable or upgrade-able by the end user, thin and light...
  - chrissnell 9y ago
    You hit upon my very favorite thing about Thinkpads: they are user-repairable and user-upgradeable! Lenovo has the most amazing website that tells you, step-by-step, how to fix almost every component of their products. For those that are considering one of their products, you have to check this out: https://www.lenovoservicetraining.com https://www.lenovoservicetraining.com
    - alchemism 9y ago
      I've made a hobby out of finding, refurbishing, and reselling Thinkpads since the late 90s. The Ts and Xs have maintained a reputation for serviceability across years.
  - chasedehan 9y ago
    Thats what I love about the ThinkPads regardless of model. You can find them for dirt cheap on eBay or craigslist. I just bought an X1 Carbon with i5, 256 GB SSD, and 8GB RAM for $194 on eBay. Has a solid keyboard and is pretty solid.
tammer 9y ago
Part of me still misses my beloved IBM-made X31. But ultimately even if I could choose one with modern components/specs, the thing that would keep me on a MacBook (disregarding software) is the unibody enclosure. Much better to have a machine that dents instead of chips. Beauty so rarely bespeaks durability in design but a CNC machined chassis is really an evolutionary leap for mobile devices.
agumonkey 9y ago
I dearly need to swap the backlight on my X200. Lenovo loves low contrast so much, to the point I believe it's an optician conspiracy :) ps: AMD announced their laptop ryzen based CPUs, I hope nb51 try one board with it.
- nils-m-holm 9y ago
  Try an X220! I regularly use mine on the balcony in bright sunlight and even with bad vision the screen is a pleasure to read. Plus, the keyboard is fantastic, but I guess that's the same as on the X200.
  - bluedino 9y ago
    You must have the tablet model with the IPS screen.
    - keithpeter 9y ago
      I'm typing this reply on an X220-4290-CZ2, a bog standard laptop. The 1366x768 screen goes very bright and I find it useable in sunlight on e.g. a train in a seat by the window when you can't move out of the sun. This is at 52 degrees North mind you, might be different further South. I have an X60 with slackware on that just runs and runs and runs. It is the screen that I find the limiting factor as OA mentioned. I might summon up the confidence to have a go at the LED backlight hack...
    - catdog 9y ago
      There are non-tablet variants with IPS screen. It's also easy to swap the panel so you can buy it separately if you don't find a good offer.
  - Gonzih 9y ago
    Im thinking about upgrading my second laptop from x200 -> x220. That sounds like a promising change. I still struggle with low contrast screen on x200 sometimes.
  - agumonkey 9y ago
m_mueller 9y ago
What drives me up the wall with all recent macbooks, besides the deteriorating keyboards, is how they need a charged battery to power on. Meaning, they have to constantly drain and charge the battery even with ac plugged in. Is is really that hard to provide what has been standard in laptops for years with an additional wall power circuit? Just planned breakage so you have to keep buying new ones? Apple in the passed stressed these kinds of details, now apparently you can't even tell whether it's charging anymore without looking at the screen.
- StudentStuff 9y ago
  Edit: I point out Apple failing to write drivers FOR THEIR OWN LAPTOPS and I get downvotes? :/ Apple just doesn't seem to care about build quality beyond the cosmetics of their Mac lineup. A great example of this is how they have dual connections from the keyboard & trackpad to the mainboard (USB and SPI), while the UEFI and Linux have drivers to support the keyboard fully, macOS has no driver for the built-in USB connection. What this means is when your coffee spills on your Mac, the keyboard won't work in macOS. Louis Rossman did a video demonstrating Apple's lack of drivers for their own hardware: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geGmC1xI4zo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geGmC1xI4zo
  - new299 9y ago
    Because it seems fair enough as en engineering decision? Apple also provide firmware updates far longer than most manufacturers (there was a recent-ish CCC? talk highlighting this).
    - StudentStuff 9y ago
      > Because it seems fair enough as en engineering decision? Huh? Supporting hardware with drivers is purely a software decision, its not as though software adds noteworthy weight to a device. > Apple also provide firmware updates far longer than most manufacturers Only for iPhones, on Mac they leave your iCloud email in in plaintext on the UEFI after the computer is wiped. For computers, expect 6 to 7 years of macOS updates at most, meanwhile Windows & Linux offer support to ancient i386 systems still.
sharpercoder 9y ago
Had t40p for 10+ years. Dropped it from ~2m high several times. Got coffee over it numerous times. Kids of my sister left it drowning in a puddle of ice-cream ice. I cleaned it with water a bunch of times, worked after drying. I even reflowed the motherboard after the housing got a little bit less stiff and random resets and freezes occured. I think my sister still has it. I should get it back and hang it on the wall or something.
- minipci1321 9y ago
  > I even reflowed the motherboard after the housing got a [...] How does one do that? Did you do it in a professional shop, or at home? What is the tooling required? I am interested in all details.
  - sharpercoder 9y ago
    I did it around 2008, I put it into a kitchen over with a laser temperature meter present to check temps. Basically, you remove the motherboard, strip as much as possible, put it into a controlled high temperature space (an oven), melt the solder and then let it cool down.
  - firmgently 9y ago
    Yeah my T41p had the same problem with the GPU (specifically ATI I seem to remember) popping out of its BGA socket slightly, sometimes (and in my case) caused by picking up the laptop by the corner of the palmrest (naughty but common habit that you usually get away with on Thinkpads)... was a common problem in those series with the oven reflow technique http://www.computerrepairtips.net/how-to-reflow-a-laptop-motherboard/ http://www.computerrepairtips.net/how-to-reflow-a-laptop-mot... working for lots of people. Didn't work for me but I think that was my failing. I fixed it with a folded up credit card inside under the trackpoint/palmrest, acted as a crude wide spring applying pressure over the heatsink/pipe of the gpu, horrific bodge lol but it worked and I carried on using the machine for years without problems after that.
duncan_bayne 9y ago
I'm running an unmodified X220 myself (well, except for installing the webcam myself[1]). Rock solid running FreeBSD 11.1[2]. I'll probably keep running this until / if I (a) roll my own, or (b) Lenovo releases their much-anticipated retro ThinkPad. [1] https://duncan.bayne.id.au/blog/when-in-doubt.html https://duncan.bayne.id.au/blog/when-in-doubt.html [2] https://www.instagram.com/p/BXPY61pFkRK/ https://www.instagram.com/p/BXPY61pFkRK/
- _joel 9y ago
  Dusted off an several year old x220 that I had lying around that was suffering power issues (dodgy power management fixed with a BIOS update - from last year, so quite surprised they were still in service), also added an SSD and it's been a really solid machine. Coming back to a thinkpad keyboard after years of macbook use was welcome too, found myself typing much faster. Next step is to put coreboot on the BIOS.
rishabhsagar 9y ago
For users wanting a stable laptop with secure boot in Thinkpad chasis, supplier list from Libreboot seems like a great place. There are suppliers who will sell refurbished Thinkpads with Libreboot pre-installed at relatively decent prices. https://libreboot.org/suppliers.html https://libreboot.org/suppliers.html
- g4k 9y ago
  Too bad that there is no model with a 1080p display available.
Leimi 9y ago
This X62 seems like a perfect machine. I'm impressed such a mod made by enthusiasts exists and can actually be bought today. Meanwhile the Retro Thinkpad, made by Lenovo, seems to be quite a disappointment by just having an old keyboard put on a new thinkpad. I'm on a x201s since years because I honestly can't find a better machine on the market today (trackpoint, 16/10, great keyboard, matte screen with decent resolution to work, solid as rock, easy to maintain). Anytime a friend asks me for a cheap laptop buying advice, I tell them to get a used thinkpad. Just add some RAM, SSD and battery if necessary and voila, you have a solid machine that will last you years for less than 400€ total.
- tannhaeuser 9y ago
  Is the retro available yet at your place? What's wrong with new tech with a real keyboard? Isn't that the point of the retro?
  - Leimi 9y ago
    From the recent rumors it seems the retro will "just" be a 2017 thinkpad + old keyboard. Cool, but not enough for me. I guess I got my expectations too high when Lenovo put out surveys asking about screen ratio, status led, thinklights, etc. a couple years ago.
    - walterbell 9y ago
      It's sad that the only place to get a HiDPI 4:3 screen today is from ... Apple on the iPad Pro 2 12.9". They have no problem getting that aspect ratio from their panel suppliers. Now we need a Thinkpad Retro keyboard case for the iPP2. Until then, the Logitech Create Pro case has the best iPP2 keyboard.
      - tannhaeuser 9y ago
        Why is 4:3 so important to both of you and many others (I'm not trolling but genuinely interested)? I'm on an 13" XPS right now which has a 16:9, supposedly "consumer laptop" ratio, and I'm not missing anything, and I'm as much of a hardcore terminal, touch typist and vi guy as can be. When I bought mine early last year, I had the luck that both the XPS 13 and the Thinkpad Carbon was in store so I could test it "hands-on". While the keyboard certainly was more elaborate, had more keytravel and all, it wasn't really subjectively better than the XPS's. The display on the Carbon, though, was really a POS compared to the XPS's. I'm guessing it was the TN display; it was just awful and not something I would tolerate on a notebook for the kind of money they're asking.
post_break 9y ago
I'm doing the 1080p mod on my x230 since I love it so much. Such a great design and keyboard. No it's not paper thin but it doesn't have to be.
- psynapse 9y ago
  I just bought a refurb X230 for pocket change. Threw in a SSD and more RAM, then installed Arch. I can't believe how good it is. I'm going to move to it as my daily driver from a much newer Clevo.
- crankybear1337 9y ago
  You're in for a treat. Going from the crappy low-res TN panel to a FHD IPS feels almost like getting a whole new machine.
  - post_break 9y ago
    Mine has the IPS screen, but it ghosts so bad.
thomasfl 9y ago
I really like some of the hardware from Lenovo, Microsoft and HP. As a developer I find the Windows 10 operating systems QDOS legacy to be annoying to, say the least.
track02 9y ago
What are some up-to-date equivalents to the X60/1 if any? I want something small with a nice keyboard and durable enough I can throw it in a bag without worry but I just can't seem to find anything better than my current X61 which is getting a little tired. I'd be interested in going even smaller but netbooks don't seem to be a thing anymore.
- Synaesthesia 9y ago
  Something like a Lenovo X-270. I have the X-240 and it’s a good 12.5” laptop, this x-270 looks similar but more modern CPU etc.
- dm319 9y ago
  I also have an X60, would recommend the X250/60/70. It is surprisingly smaller than you would expect from photos, and runs cooler/longer than the X60. The downsides are that the keyboard isn't as good - and how acceptable it is depends on exactly which supplier you get. On the other hand the keys arent quite as cramped as on the X60. You can also get an extended battery which gives you more than 12 hours runtime. Plus you can get nice IPS 1080p displays which is a plus, and it still has ethernet. Have a look at the gemini palmtop for a potential future arm linux machine.
vvanders 9y ago
Much love for the old thinkpads. You can practically drive over them with a car and they keep on ticking.
turtlebits 9y ago
Would love to go back to Thinkpads, but I've had bad experiences with the LCD panel quality (not resolution) being terrible. Maybe it's my eyes, but certain manufacturer LCDs have left a bad impression that I'm unlikely to even consider them - Ones in Thinkpads, Nokia devices, ASUS tablets, some Acer. Even to the point of giving me eye strain. I think the only non-Apple display in a laptop I've really enjoyed is the 4k one in my Dell (heavy as all but plays games).
- dm319 9y ago
  they do good and bad displays. The OLED displays are incredible. The 768pn TN ones not so.
- firmgently 9y ago
  Swapping out the panel is fairly easy in most (all?) Thinkpads and they're pretty cheap to source especially if you don't mind buying used. A bit of Googling on the Thinkpad model number will reveal which manufacturer's panels are good and which are bad (often the same IBM/Lenovo part number is used irrespective of the supplier) for that model. Or sometimes another panel with the same dimensions and spec that matches the gpu/connector can be used (often Dell and Lenovo are using interchangeable panels in similar model ranges, used to be the case with Apple too but nowadays they seem to do exclusive deals with manufacturers and don't let anybody else play). Not a solution that everyone can be bothered with but I've vastly improved some cheap 2nd hand Thinpads with a nice new screen.
ct0 9y ago
I have one of these x62's in the i5 version, bought it prebuilt. The screen was quickly updated with the LED backlight mod as well. Honestly, coming from an x220 and x230, this thing flies. Highly recommend one. I also have an x61s that is nice, but the resolution and speed is not modern enough for me.
- Leimi 9y ago
  Hey, great. I'd think it would be on par with the x220 or x230 given the same SSD or RAM. How hard was it to install the LED backlight mod?
  - ct0 9y ago
    Performance of the x62 is on par for sure. Mainly because the hardware is swappable between them. The relative gain in resolution for the size/weight between a non-fdh modded x2*0 and the x62 is the main takeaway. I also gained miniDP and usb3 which the x220 does not have. Regarding the LED? Monty, who makes the kit, is an awesome dude and great resource. I emailed with him regarding installation and he quickly responded. Installation should not be for someone without a history of taking these machines apart. You must have the willingness to dig a little deeper than a RAM install, as you are disassembling the screen bezel and making permanent cuts into the plastic and on an expensive x62 prebuilt, this took serious consideration. The cuts are easy, and the disassembly is easy. no soldering or real issues I can remember, other than having to do it twice because of dust. Do the whole thing in a clean area without a rug, vacuum everything around first. I highly recommend the kit. Brightness is on par with brand new machines. Just shield your eyes from the LED kit turning out before it's in the screen. SOO BRIGHT
    - Leimi 9y ago
      Thanks for all the info!
davexunit 9y ago
I would love to have a similar upgrade path with the X220. I don't love the 16:9 display, but a higher res upgrade would take care of that issue. I definitely want to try out the power saving tweaks from that script in the article. I use a 9-cell battery currently and get somewhere around 6-8 hours of life out of it. Would love to extend that a bit.
- ginreaper 9y ago
  I have an x220 still. My whole chassis is cracked, my fan grinds like crazy, my lid has been broken since day 1. the thing is tough even though it's pretty much broken in every possible way it still runs fine and since i have the 9 cell battery as well I still get 5-6 hours from it. I think might next upgrade might have to be the x62
  - davexunit 9y ago
    I'm considering the x62 as well. I'm not sure if the motherboard supports non-intel wireless chips and if the CPU requires firmware blobs to run the GPU. If either of those are the case then it isn't a good fit for me because right now my hacked x220 is usable without any proprietary software in the OS.
jackielii 9y ago
OMG I want this!!!
eveningcoffee 9y ago
>Despite its shortcomings, I ended up using the X61s more than my 12” MacBook. The X61s convinced me that a much better laptop could exist. The same chassis with modern components would be a very compelling product. This is a good point and there and many people who believe it to be true. Only problem are the Lenovo executives that are not willing to provide such product (see Thinkpad Retro).
- walkingolof 9y ago
  Rumor is that the Thinkpad Retro aka. the anniversary model, is due in October, celebrating 25 years of Thinkpad. https://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenovo-ThinkPad-Anniversary-Edition-planned-for-October-release-Update-Teaser-Image.229782.0.html https://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenovo-ThinkPad-Anniversary-Ed...
  - 5_minutes 9y ago
    I've been waiting for it. I find it an awesome initiative from Lenovo, and it shows something many other big companies have lost. Making products for the hardcore geeks/fans. This used to be common 20 years ago. If they execute this well, they'll score a lot of points in my book!
- pizza234 9y ago
  > Only problem are the Lenovo executives that are not willing to provide such product (see Thinkpad Retro). I had (and loved) a few Thinkpads, but I wouldn't produce one if I was a Lenovo executive as well, unless I had extremely good indicators from the market. To me it seems one of those ideas that prospective clients think they'll buy, but they won't. Realistically speaking, a 13.3" old school Thinkpad nowadays would be twice as thick (~3 cm) and weight 40/50% more than renowned competitors like a Dell XPS or a MBP. There's not much to squeeze, as the philosophy of Thinkpads was (also) to allow the user to change parts, which takes space and weight. In such conditions, there is a serious risk that it would appeal only to a very limited audience (which is a serious business risk).
  - fragmede 9y ago
anthony_barker 9y ago
I am more a fan of the X over the T. I have gone trough several newer computers and still lean towards the x220. I actually think the keyboard on the x220 is better... bigger delete key and esc keys.. not backlit but has the night light thingy. Yeah I miss the 4x3 screen.... Wish it had higher res screen, was a bit thinner and maybe an updated chip set... But
gigatexal 9y ago
And I’m over here like bring back the deep black PowerBook G3
bambax 9y ago
> When commenting, remember: Is it true? Is it necessary? Is it kind? Great formulation and easy enough to remember, but... is truth ever kind?
mikejmoffitt 9y ago
I use one of these X62 systems as my laptop.
AndyPandy 9y ago
I have a Dell E6540 for exactly these reasons. It feels like a real computer. It's 1080p, but I prefer widescreen personally. People are always making comments about how old my laptop is, but it's an i7 4810MQ with 16GB RAM!
ams6110 9y ago
I use a Lenovo ThinkPad keyboard with my desktop machine. Model KU-1255. Love it and love not ever having to reach for a mouse.
kristianp 9y ago
I really miss the keyboard layout of my T410. It's good news that the retro Thinkpad has the same layout, hopefully it will be popular enough that the main product lines go back to having the separate cluster of Delete,Insert,Home,End,PgDn and PgUp that I miss so much.
ezyang 9y ago
Apparently they are out of stock for the i7 motherboards, so you'll have to keep an eye out if you want one of those.
gytdev 9y ago
I wrote to the guys in the original post. The price is not as cheap as I thought: X62 with i5 - 780 USD X62 with i7-5500U - 980USD both setups no:ram/hdd/battery , new AFFS panel (1400x1050) I will better consider buying a new Thinkpad or wait for the retro edition

474 points by mparramon 9y ago

> I forgot how much I preferred 4:3 screens for work. I didn't. I love 4:3 on laptops. I wish more people would rediscover it.

josteink 9y ago
This was actually one of my reasons to abandon Android tablets. I wanted 4:3, but all that was offered was 16:9 or 16:10.
- ch4ck 9y ago
  Samsung Galaxy Tab S2 2048x1536 Samsung Galaxy Tab S3 2048x1536 Nexus 9 2048x1536
  - josteink 9y ago
    I have the Nexus 9 and that was the final nail in the coffin ;)
- AdmiralAsshat 9y ago
  The Pixel C had something closer to a 4:3, if memory serves.[0] [0] The wiki page said it's actually a 1:√2 ratio.
  - josteink 9y ago
    It was priced absurdly high for a tablet on a platform with terrible in-app tablet-support though.
AdmiralAsshat 9y ago
The Chromebook Pixel line features 4:3. It really is quite nice for browsing pages, reading content, coding, etc.
jajern 9y ago
What are the selling points? It's been a really, really long time since I used one but I feel like side by side work would be constrained by it.
- bhauer 9y ago
  Generally speaking you're only going to be able to fit two source files side-by-side on a ~13 inch laptop screen regardless of the aspect ratio. So the advantage of a 4:3 or 3:2 (which is what Microsoft's Surface line uses) is a little more height and a little less width than 16:9. Usually this means taking away some of the unused gutter space to the right of each source file you have open (less horizontal space) and giving you more visible lines of code (more vertical space). The bottom line: more visibility of source code.
Asooka 9y ago
I fear this battle is already lost, though. Lots of IDEs expect wide screens and place plenty of tabs on the side of the code window. On a laptop, it probably sucks, but on a desktop, you can just have a widescreen monitor that's taller and wider (physically and in resolution) than the 4:3 of old, so you basically have a 4:3 code window with a bunch of toolbars on the sides.
- Zak 9y ago
  On a desktop, you can fairly easily obtain displays that will fill your entire field of view, so the aspect ratio doesn't matter so much. When it comes to laptops, there's much more of an optimization problem; it therefore seems strange to me that there's so little variety on the market, as different users certainly have different needs.
bpye 9y ago
The Surface line have 3:2, it's definitely a step up from 16:9.
- redacted 9y ago
  Yeah the aspect ratio ended up being one of my favorite things about the Surface Book (surprisingly enough, to me)

StudentStuff 9y ago

This is why I've been buying every well priced Thinkpad on Craigslist. From a couple T420's to the occasional T440 (for $70 to $100), with a few librebootable T400's and T60's thrown in for $10 to $20, I seem to hold these laptops for a short duration before friends or family buy them off me for $5 to $15 more. Plus, when anything breaks, parts are cheap and plentiful. I even upgraded a T440 for my SO with a 1080p IPS screen and a few other bits, its an impressively nice machine all specced out!

yoodenvranx 9y ago
> This is why I've been buying every well priced Thinkpad on Craigslist. From a couple T420's to the occasional T440 (for $70 to $100), with a few librebootable T400's and T60's thrown in for $10 to $20, I seem to hold these laptops for a short duration before friends or family buy them off me for $5 to $15 more. Over here in Germany you unfortunately pay 100 euro for a T61 and 100-300 euro for a T420. If I could get a T440 for just 100 euro I would buy it in an instant.

sapphire_tomb 9y ago

I went out shopping a few weekends ago to see what the current offering on laptops looks like. I ended up in an Apple store, and after only a few seconds fiddling with a MacBook, I walked straight back out again. That keyboard is terrible. I don't care how many other things Apple's line has going for it - if the primary interface to the device is that bad, I just can't imagine using it. I wish there were more laptops out there with the old style ThinkPad keyboard on them :(

ergo14 9y ago
I like the KB on the dell latitude line.
- MrMid 9y ago
  I don't like these so much. I have an E7240 for a year now, and while it's great compared to most other laptops, I still prefer the keyboard of my ThinkPad X61s. When I tried the X230 keyboard, it also felt somewhat better than that of my Latitude. That said, when I used Lenovo Yoga for a while, I was just surprised how bad a keyboard could be. I love my Latitude. EDIT: and I miss the TrackPoint, although with a touchscreen it doesn't matter so much.
  - ergo14 9y ago
    My latitude E5470 has a backlit kb with trackpoint, I had to pay for it though.
mrmondo 9y ago
On my work desktop (iMac 5k) I use a Das ultimate mechanical keyboard, I’ve been a big fan of Das keyboards with Blue or Brown switches for many years, I purchased a MacBook 12” Retina when they came out and it certainly took some adjusting to get used to the new keyboard but - after a week or so I really, truly liked it, I found myself typing very fast will a low error rate, when the new MacBook Pro came out a few months back I noted that they used a new generation of the same low profile keys that the MacBook 12” had, again I really enjoyed it because I was used to new style of key mechanism thanks to having the 12” for some time, I ended up buying a 13” MBP and oh my I’d almost go as far as saying I love the keyboard. Yes it’s very different from both mechanical keyboards such as my Das keyboards and legacy laptop keyboard designs and I think after a short adjustment period many people would likely enjoy the feel of the keys more than legacy / previous designs - it really grows on you.

chrissnell 9y ago

I love these Thinkpad mods but don't have the time or patience to do one myself. Instead, I did a little research and settled on the T470s as my new laptop. You won't read about it much on the Lenovo boards. It's not the fastest; that title goes to their huge desktop replacement beasts. It's not the sexiest and thinnest--the X1 beats it there. It is, however, well-equipped with a great display and fast-enough CPU, and it's quite thin. It has all the latest tech, including NVME disk and HiDPI display options. I run Arch Linux and the i3 window manager on mine and it's just perfect.

bluedino 9y ago
The T4x0 is the star of the lineup. You can get last year's model dirt cheap through the Lenovo Outlet or refurbished ($500+ US). They finally give you a good screen (remember the T430 and earlier days? Or even the recent 1366x768 screens?), battery is great, the chiclet keyboard isn't as bad as people try to make you believe, and not only did they leave the TrackPoint on, the TouchPads are pretty decent even if they aren't to Apple's level. Easily repairable or upgrade-able by the end user, thin and light...
- chrissnell 9y ago
  You hit upon my very favorite thing about Thinkpads: they are user-repairable and user-upgradeable! Lenovo has the most amazing website that tells you, step-by-step, how to fix almost every component of their products. For those that are considering one of their products, you have to check this out: https://www.lenovoservicetraining.com https://www.lenovoservicetraining.com
  - alchemism 9y ago
    I've made a hobby out of finding, refurbishing, and reselling Thinkpads since the late 90s. The Ts and Xs have maintained a reputation for serviceability across years.
- chasedehan 9y ago
  Thats what I love about the ThinkPads regardless of model. You can find them for dirt cheap on eBay or craigslist. I just bought an X1 Carbon with i5, 256 GB SSD, and 8GB RAM for $194 on eBay. Has a solid keyboard and is pretty solid.

tammer 9y ago

Part of me still misses my beloved IBM-made X31. But ultimately even if I could choose one with modern components/specs, the thing that would keep me on a MacBook (disregarding software) is the unibody enclosure. Much better to have a machine that dents instead of chips. Beauty so rarely bespeaks durability in design but a CNC machined chassis is really an evolutionary leap for mobile devices.

agumonkey 9y ago

I dearly need to swap the backlight on my X200. Lenovo loves low contrast so much, to the point I believe it's an optician conspiracy :) ps: AMD announced their laptop ryzen based CPUs, I hope nb51 try one board with it.

nils-m-holm 9y ago
Try an X220! I regularly use mine on the balcony in bright sunlight and even with bad vision the screen is a pleasure to read. Plus, the keyboard is fantastic, but I guess that's the same as on the X200.
- bluedino 9y ago
  You must have the tablet model with the IPS screen.
  - keithpeter 9y ago
    I'm typing this reply on an X220-4290-CZ2, a bog standard laptop. The 1366x768 screen goes very bright and I find it useable in sunlight on e.g. a train in a seat by the window when you can't move out of the sun. This is at 52 degrees North mind you, might be different further South. I have an X60 with slackware on that just runs and runs and runs. It is the screen that I find the limiting factor as OA mentioned. I might summon up the confidence to have a go at the LED backlight hack...
  - catdog 9y ago
    There are non-tablet variants with IPS screen. It's also easy to swap the panel so you can buy it separately if you don't find a good offer.
- Gonzih 9y ago
  Im thinking about upgrading my second laptop from x200 -> x220. That sounds like a promising change. I still struggle with low contrast screen on x200 sometimes.
- agumonkey 9y ago

m_mueller 9y ago

What drives me up the wall with all recent macbooks, besides the deteriorating keyboards, is how they need a charged battery to power on. Meaning, they have to constantly drain and charge the battery even with ac plugged in. Is is really that hard to provide what has been standard in laptops for years with an additional wall power circuit? Just planned breakage so you have to keep buying new ones? Apple in the passed stressed these kinds of details, now apparently you can't even tell whether it's charging anymore without looking at the screen.

StudentStuff 9y ago
Edit: I point out Apple failing to write drivers FOR THEIR OWN LAPTOPS and I get downvotes? :/ Apple just doesn't seem to care about build quality beyond the cosmetics of their Mac lineup. A great example of this is how they have dual connections from the keyboard & trackpad to the mainboard (USB and SPI), while the UEFI and Linux have drivers to support the keyboard fully, macOS has no driver for the built-in USB connection. What this means is when your coffee spills on your Mac, the keyboard won't work in macOS. Louis Rossman did a video demonstrating Apple's lack of drivers for their own hardware: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geGmC1xI4zo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geGmC1xI4zo
- new299 9y ago
  Because it seems fair enough as en engineering decision? Apple also provide firmware updates far longer than most manufacturers (there was a recent-ish CCC? talk highlighting this).
  - StudentStuff 9y ago
    > Because it seems fair enough as en engineering decision? Huh? Supporting hardware with drivers is purely a software decision, its not as though software adds noteworthy weight to a device. > Apple also provide firmware updates far longer than most manufacturers Only for iPhones, on Mac they leave your iCloud email in in plaintext on the UEFI after the computer is wiped. For computers, expect 6 to 7 years of macOS updates at most, meanwhile Windows & Linux offer support to ancient i386 systems still.

sharpercoder 9y ago

Had t40p for 10+ years. Dropped it from ~2m high several times. Got coffee over it numerous times. Kids of my sister left it drowning in a puddle of ice-cream ice. I cleaned it with water a bunch of times, worked after drying. I even reflowed the motherboard after the housing got a little bit less stiff and random resets and freezes occured. I think my sister still has it. I should get it back and hang it on the wall or something.

minipci1321 9y ago
> I even reflowed the motherboard after the housing got a [...] How does one do that? Did you do it in a professional shop, or at home? What is the tooling required? I am interested in all details.
- sharpercoder 9y ago
  I did it around 2008, I put it into a kitchen over with a laser temperature meter present to check temps. Basically, you remove the motherboard, strip as much as possible, put it into a controlled high temperature space (an oven), melt the solder and then let it cool down.
- firmgently 9y ago
  Yeah my T41p had the same problem with the GPU (specifically ATI I seem to remember) popping out of its BGA socket slightly, sometimes (and in my case) caused by picking up the laptop by the corner of the palmrest (naughty but common habit that you usually get away with on Thinkpads)... was a common problem in those series with the oven reflow technique http://www.computerrepairtips.net/how-to-reflow-a-laptop-motherboard/ http://www.computerrepairtips.net/how-to-reflow-a-laptop-mot... working for lots of people. Didn't work for me but I think that was my failing. I fixed it with a folded up credit card inside under the trackpoint/palmrest, acted as a crude wide spring applying pressure over the heatsink/pipe of the gpu, horrific bodge lol but it worked and I carried on using the machine for years without problems after that.

duncan_bayne 9y ago

I'm running an unmodified X220 myself (well, except for installing the webcam myself[1]). Rock solid running FreeBSD 11.1[2]. I'll probably keep running this until / if I (a) roll my own, or (b) Lenovo releases their much-anticipated retro ThinkPad. [1] https://duncan.bayne.id.au/blog/when-in-doubt.html https://duncan.bayne.id.au/blog/when-in-doubt.html [2] https://www.instagram.com/p/BXPY61pFkRK/ https://www.instagram.com/p/BXPY61pFkRK/

_joel 9y ago
Dusted off an several year old x220 that I had lying around that was suffering power issues (dodgy power management fixed with a BIOS update - from last year, so quite surprised they were still in service), also added an SSD and it's been a really solid machine. Coming back to a thinkpad keyboard after years of macbook use was welcome too, found myself typing much faster. Next step is to put coreboot on the BIOS.

rishabhsagar 9y ago

For users wanting a stable laptop with secure boot in Thinkpad chasis, supplier list from Libreboot seems like a great place. There are suppliers who will sell refurbished Thinkpads with Libreboot pre-installed at relatively decent prices. https://libreboot.org/suppliers.html https://libreboot.org/suppliers.html

g4k 9y ago
Too bad that there is no model with a 1080p display available.

Leimi 9y ago

This X62 seems like a perfect machine. I'm impressed such a mod made by enthusiasts exists and can actually be bought today. Meanwhile the Retro Thinkpad, made by Lenovo, seems to be quite a disappointment by just having an old keyboard put on a new thinkpad. I'm on a x201s since years because I honestly can't find a better machine on the market today (trackpoint, 16/10, great keyboard, matte screen with decent resolution to work, solid as rock, easy to maintain). Anytime a friend asks me for a cheap laptop buying advice, I tell them to get a used thinkpad. Just add some RAM, SSD and battery if necessary and voila, you have a solid machine that will last you years for less than 400€ total.

tannhaeuser 9y ago
Is the retro available yet at your place? What's wrong with new tech with a real keyboard? Isn't that the point of the retro?
- Leimi 9y ago
  From the recent rumors it seems the retro will "just" be a 2017 thinkpad + old keyboard. Cool, but not enough for me. I guess I got my expectations too high when Lenovo put out surveys asking about screen ratio, status led, thinklights, etc. a couple years ago.
  - walterbell 9y ago
    It's sad that the only place to get a HiDPI 4:3 screen today is from ... Apple on the iPad Pro 2 12.9". They have no problem getting that aspect ratio from their panel suppliers. Now we need a Thinkpad Retro keyboard case for the iPP2. Until then, the Logitech Create Pro case has the best iPP2 keyboard.
    - tannhaeuser 9y ago
      Why is 4:3 so important to both of you and many others (I'm not trolling but genuinely interested)? I'm on an 13" XPS right now which has a 16:9, supposedly "consumer laptop" ratio, and I'm not missing anything, and I'm as much of a hardcore terminal, touch typist and vi guy as can be. When I bought mine early last year, I had the luck that both the XPS 13 and the Thinkpad Carbon was in store so I could test it "hands-on". While the keyboard certainly was more elaborate, had more keytravel and all, it wasn't really subjectively better than the XPS's. The display on the Carbon, though, was really a POS compared to the XPS's. I'm guessing it was the TN display; it was just awful and not something I would tolerate on a notebook for the kind of money they're asking.

post_break 9y ago

I'm doing the 1080p mod on my x230 since I love it so much. Such a great design and keyboard. No it's not paper thin but it doesn't have to be.

psynapse 9y ago
I just bought a refurb X230 for pocket change. Threw in a SSD and more RAM, then installed Arch. I can't believe how good it is. I'm going to move to it as my daily driver from a much newer Clevo.
crankybear1337 9y ago
You're in for a treat. Going from the crappy low-res TN panel to a FHD IPS feels almost like getting a whole new machine.
- post_break 9y ago
  Mine has the IPS screen, but it ghosts so bad.

thomasfl 9y ago

I really like some of the hardware from Lenovo, Microsoft and HP. As a developer I find the Windows 10 operating systems QDOS legacy to be annoying to, say the least.

track02 9y ago

What are some up-to-date equivalents to the X60/1 if any? I want something small with a nice keyboard and durable enough I can throw it in a bag without worry but I just can't seem to find anything better than my current X61 which is getting a little tired. I'd be interested in going even smaller but netbooks don't seem to be a thing anymore.

Synaesthesia 9y ago
Something like a Lenovo X-270. I have the X-240 and it’s a good 12.5” laptop, this x-270 looks similar but more modern CPU etc.
dm319 9y ago
I also have an X60, would recommend the X250/60/70. It is surprisingly smaller than you would expect from photos, and runs cooler/longer than the X60. The downsides are that the keyboard isn't as good - and how acceptable it is depends on exactly which supplier you get. On the other hand the keys arent quite as cramped as on the X60. You can also get an extended battery which gives you more than 12 hours runtime. Plus you can get nice IPS 1080p displays which is a plus, and it still has ethernet. Have a look at the gemini palmtop for a potential future arm linux machine.

vvanders 9y ago

Much love for the old thinkpads. You can practically drive over them with a car and they keep on ticking.

turtlebits 9y ago

Would love to go back to Thinkpads, but I've had bad experiences with the LCD panel quality (not resolution) being terrible. Maybe it's my eyes, but certain manufacturer LCDs have left a bad impression that I'm unlikely to even consider them - Ones in Thinkpads, Nokia devices, ASUS tablets, some Acer. Even to the point of giving me eye strain. I think the only non-Apple display in a laptop I've really enjoyed is the 4k one in my Dell (heavy as all but plays games).

dm319 9y ago
they do good and bad displays. The OLED displays are incredible. The 768pn TN ones not so.
firmgently 9y ago
Swapping out the panel is fairly easy in most (all?) Thinkpads and they're pretty cheap to source especially if you don't mind buying used. A bit of Googling on the Thinkpad model number will reveal which manufacturer's panels are good and which are bad (often the same IBM/Lenovo part number is used irrespective of the supplier) for that model. Or sometimes another panel with the same dimensions and spec that matches the gpu/connector can be used (often Dell and Lenovo are using interchangeable panels in similar model ranges, used to be the case with Apple too but nowadays they seem to do exclusive deals with manufacturers and don't let anybody else play). Not a solution that everyone can be bothered with but I've vastly improved some cheap 2nd hand Thinpads with a nice new screen.

ct0 9y ago

I have one of these x62's in the i5 version, bought it prebuilt. The screen was quickly updated with the LED backlight mod as well. Honestly, coming from an x220 and x230, this thing flies. Highly recommend one. I also have an x61s that is nice, but the resolution and speed is not modern enough for me.

Leimi 9y ago
Hey, great. I'd think it would be on par with the x220 or x230 given the same SSD or RAM. How hard was it to install the LED backlight mod?
- ct0 9y ago
  Performance of the x62 is on par for sure. Mainly because the hardware is swappable between them. The relative gain in resolution for the size/weight between a non-fdh modded x2*0 and the x62 is the main takeaway. I also gained miniDP and usb3 which the x220 does not have. Regarding the LED? Monty, who makes the kit, is an awesome dude and great resource. I emailed with him regarding installation and he quickly responded. Installation should not be for someone without a history of taking these machines apart. You must have the willingness to dig a little deeper than a RAM install, as you are disassembling the screen bezel and making permanent cuts into the plastic and on an expensive x62 prebuilt, this took serious consideration. The cuts are easy, and the disassembly is easy. no soldering or real issues I can remember, other than having to do it twice because of dust. Do the whole thing in a clean area without a rug, vacuum everything around first. I highly recommend the kit. Brightness is on par with brand new machines. Just shield your eyes from the LED kit turning out before it's in the screen. SOO BRIGHT
  - Leimi 9y ago
    Thanks for all the info!

davexunit 9y ago

I would love to have a similar upgrade path with the X220. I don't love the 16:9 display, but a higher res upgrade would take care of that issue. I definitely want to try out the power saving tweaks from that script in the article. I use a 9-cell battery currently and get somewhere around 6-8 hours of life out of it. Would love to extend that a bit.

ginreaper 9y ago
I have an x220 still. My whole chassis is cracked, my fan grinds like crazy, my lid has been broken since day 1. the thing is tough even though it's pretty much broken in every possible way it still runs fine and since i have the 9 cell battery as well I still get 5-6 hours from it. I think might next upgrade might have to be the x62
- davexunit 9y ago
  I'm considering the x62 as well. I'm not sure if the motherboard supports non-intel wireless chips and if the CPU requires firmware blobs to run the GPU. If either of those are the case then it isn't a good fit for me because right now my hacked x220 is usable without any proprietary software in the OS.

jackielii 9y ago

OMG I want this!!!

eveningcoffee 9y ago

>Despite its shortcomings, I ended up using the X61s more than my 12” MacBook. The X61s convinced me that a much better laptop could exist. The same chassis with modern components would be a very compelling product. This is a good point and there and many people who believe it to be true. Only problem are the Lenovo executives that are not willing to provide such product (see Thinkpad Retro).

walkingolof 9y ago
Rumor is that the Thinkpad Retro aka. the anniversary model, is due in October, celebrating 25 years of Thinkpad. https://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenovo-ThinkPad-Anniversary-Edition-planned-for-October-release-Update-Teaser-Image.229782.0.html https://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenovo-ThinkPad-Anniversary-Ed...
- 5_minutes 9y ago
  I've been waiting for it. I find it an awesome initiative from Lenovo, and it shows something many other big companies have lost. Making products for the hardcore geeks/fans. This used to be common 20 years ago. If they execute this well, they'll score a lot of points in my book!
pizza234 9y ago
> Only problem are the Lenovo executives that are not willing to provide such product (see Thinkpad Retro). I had (and loved) a few Thinkpads, but I wouldn't produce one if I was a Lenovo executive as well, unless I had extremely good indicators from the market. To me it seems one of those ideas that prospective clients think they'll buy, but they won't. Realistically speaking, a 13.3" old school Thinkpad nowadays would be twice as thick (~3 cm) and weight 40/50% more than renowned competitors like a Dell XPS or a MBP. There's not much to squeeze, as the philosophy of Thinkpads was (also) to allow the user to change parts, which takes space and weight. In such conditions, there is a serious risk that it would appeal only to a very limited audience (which is a serious business risk).
- fragmede 9y ago

anthony_barker 9y ago

I am more a fan of the X over the T. I have gone trough several newer computers and still lean towards the x220. I actually think the keyboard on the x220 is better... bigger delete key and esc keys.. not backlit but has the night light thingy. Yeah I miss the 4x3 screen.... Wish it had higher res screen, was a bit thinner and maybe an updated chip set... But

gigatexal 9y ago

And I’m over here like bring back the deep black PowerBook G3

bambax 9y ago

> When commenting, remember: Is it true? Is it necessary? Is it kind? Great formulation and easy enough to remember, but... is truth ever kind?

mikejmoffitt 9y ago

I use one of these X62 systems as my laptop.

AndyPandy 9y ago

I have a Dell E6540 for exactly these reasons. It feels like a real computer. It's 1080p, but I prefer widescreen personally. People are always making comments about how old my laptop is, but it's an i7 4810MQ with 16GB RAM!

ams6110 9y ago

I use a Lenovo ThinkPad keyboard with my desktop machine. Model KU-1255. Love it and love not ever having to reach for a mouse.

kristianp 9y ago

I really miss the keyboard layout of my T410. It's good news that the retro Thinkpad has the same layout, hopefully it will be popular enough that the main product lines go back to having the separate cluster of Delete,Insert,Home,End,PgDn and PgUp that I miss so much.

ezyang 9y ago

Apparently they are out of stock for the i7 motherboards, so you'll have to keep an eye out if you want one of those.

gytdev 9y ago

I wrote to the guys in the original post. The price is not as cheap as I thought: X62 with i5 - 780 USD X62 with i7-5500U - 980USD both setups no:ram/hdd/battery , new AFFS panel (1400x1050) I will better consider buying a new Thinkpad or wait for the retro edition