7 ms·

Iodine: A full superset of Java with enhancements

52 points by dwarfland 9y ago

kuschku 9y ago
So, a JVM language that’s not much more than just a C# clone, but with no IDE or compiler support for Linux? This sounds like it’s not going to be successful soon. In the long term, if you want to compete with Java, you’ll need good integration with existing IDEs, and with existing JVM languages.
- sorokod 9y ago
  A JVM language that is a super set of Java. Meaning that java sources are valid iodine sources. Some may find this attractive.
  - kuschku 9y ago
    Yes, but kotlin can already translate Java to Kotlin, and provides 90% of this – with far better IDE and editing support. Forking Kotlin seems like an easier solution. Especially because of the IDE and compiler support for this, which means it can only reasonably be developed on Windows, and then you might as well use C#.
- Nullabillity 9y ago
  There's also the $800/seat price tag. Yeah, no thanks.
jnordwick 9y ago
Fyi: not java but a java derived language with similar aims (and initial language features) to kotlin (and pascal).
- brad0 9y ago
  So a JVM language? I'm asking because the site won't load for me.
  - jnordwick 9y ago
    Iodine is a full superset of regular Java, but provides enhanced abilities that will make writing Java code easier and more productive. All your existing Java code should compile right away (just copy it over), and you can start making use of the enhancements, right away. For the initial release, these include: optional type inference with the var keyword "out" and "by-reference" parameters type extensions partial classes powerful aspects accessing getters/setters using property syntax global (class-less) methods and fields Cocoa-style multi-part method names (aka named parameters) and the list will continue expanding, with support for structs/records and easy property definitions, for example, coming in version 9.3. Read about all the language extensions here. Iodine also does away with some silly limitations that plague Java developers, such as being limited to having one class per file (or, indeed, one file per class) or having to match the package/namespace structure of your code with folders on disk.
    - gfredtech 9y ago
      Great, but why is it not totally free? It says on the page Try Iodine for free. When you click further, it is a 30-day free trial of some sort, and you need your email to download: http://www.elementscompiler.com/elements/iodine/ http://www.elementscompiler.com/elements/iodine/
      - dwarfland 9y ago
        "Great, but why is it not totally free?" because rent and food isn't, either.
        gfredtech 9y ago
        well said
  - jrs95 9y ago
    It’s a superset of Java with some additional features
  - Nullabillity 9y ago
carussell 9y ago
Marc: the two links to Fire and Water in your post link back to the post's own URL, rather than to [Fire] and [Water]. Fire. http://www.elementscompiler.com/elements/fire/ http://www.elementscompiler.com/elements/fire/ Water. http://www.elementscompiler.com/elements/water/ http://www.elementscompiler.com/elements/water/
- dwarfland 9y ago
  fixed, thanx.
hadrien01 9y ago
> Let's face it: Nobody loves working in Android Studio, Eclipse, or NetBeans – the IDEs are bloated, clunky and unintuitive. Uh... I don't agree for IntelliJ/Android Studio, and I'm sure some people love to work with NetBeans and Eclipse.
- _pmf_ 9y ago
  I love Eclipse and am unable to cope with the laggy, crashing trainwreck that is Android Studio. The fucking joke is: it runs the build as another process, yet still manages to be completely unresponsive and prone to crashing.
  - pjmlp 9y ago
    Netbeans is my favourite Java IDE and I used to bash Eclipse, yet thanks to Android Studio, Google has made me love Eclipse again.
    - qw 9y ago
      Android Studio is based on Intellij.
      - pjmlp 9y ago
        Every developer with Android experience knows that, and both require more resources than either Netbeans or Eclipse, but whatever Google makes to their fork of Intellij, makes Android Studio even worse.
        snuxoll 9y ago
        The android dev tools have never been that great, and I feel they’re even worse with the new Gradle build system (although yay, Maven dependcies without needing to pull in Ivy?) I use IntelliJ daily without issues, literally the only difference between my work and that of a Android Studio user is the Android plugin and the different build system.
      - 9y ago
moomin 9y ago
Someone should just do C# for Java and be done with it...
- SureshG 9y ago
  Yeah it's called Kotlin, better than C# IMO.
  - eropple 9y ago
    Kotlin is cool but it's not C#. The project that's most "C# for the JVM" is called Stab and it's widely rumored that it was (as its an anonymous project) a precursor to Kotlin on the side.
    - dwarfland 9y ago
      RemObjects C# is exactly that. C# language, compiles for JVM (and Cocoa and .NET and native Windows/Linux/Android NDK, as well).
      - eropple 9y ago
        Projects by no-name companies too insecure to open-source their stack but also too shameless not to flog it every chance they get are not worth even considering. Programming languages that aren't fully and permissively open aren't worth a bucket of spit. And I don't provide my business to the latter, either. Especially when superior options exist, because "C# on the JVM" also isn't even particularly valuable when you're a competent programmer who is capable of learning new things.
  - pjmlp 9y ago
    Not really. Kotlin does not support value types, unsafe low level coding, and it is going to be a while until it can match .NET Native.
- dwarfland 9y ago
  Someone did: http://www.elementscompiler.com/elements/hydrogene/ http://www.elementscompiler.com/elements/hydrogene/
kkarimi 9y ago
Reminds me of the groovy/grails project and their attempt to make a better Java..
- imtringued 9y ago
  Groovy is also almost a superset of java. They removed a few syntactical contstructs which make it incompatible but most of them are trivial to tranform to groovy.
  - vorg 9y ago
    > almost a superset of java. They removed a few syntactical contstructs Unfortunately "almost" doesn't cut it with programming languages. And they changed, not "removed", syntax. Because Apache Groovy has those (many, not "few") incompatibilities with Java (e.g. meaning of == , public visibility as default, closures instead of lambdas, etc), it might as well be a different language.
arkadiytehgraet 9y ago
I don't get it: there is already a widely accepted 'better' Java called Kotlin, that features much more than this: way better integration with IDEs, way better integration with existing Java codebases, better everything... Yet somehow we should start using NEW IDE with NEW language supported by completely unknown company with zero guarantees about its support. I just don't get it.
- badpenny 9y ago
  I don't know what it is about programmers that we seem to love reinventing the wheel.
  - watwut 9y ago
    It is usually fun exercise that has little certainty (you know what to do and even how if you bother to study) in it, but is still intellectually satisfying. Usually great learning experience. Once in a while, project that wins over others (requires a lot of bullshitting on conferences tho).
- vbezhenar 9y ago
  Well, it's a competition. Why not.
- jedisct1 9y ago
  And Scala, and Groovy... Furthermore iodine is already the name of a popular IP-over-DNS tool.
  - vorg 9y ago
    While we're on the subject of interesting titbits, Apache Groovy was first announced 14 years ago. It's creator, James Strachan, announced Groovy on 29 August 2003, hosting it at groovy.codehaus.org.
- stuartq 9y ago
  The difference is that it's a superset, whereas Kotlin is a different language with Java interop, that's designed to be familiar to Java programmers. To use a JavaScript analogy, Kotlin is CoffeScript, and Iodine is Typescript.
pents90 9y ago
Not sure how everybody else feels about it, but I find that optional typing is the enemy of readable code.
- djur 9y ago
  It doesn't look like this has optional typing (like Dart or Groovy) but local type inference (like Kotlin or C++).
tjalfi 9y ago
What problem does Iodine fix[0]? Here is my guess at an answer. Iodine: our Java implementation should include features from newer languages [0] http://paulgraham.com/fix.html http://paulgraham.com/fix.html
exabrial 9y ago
> optional type inference with the var keyword I would definitely call this a regression, not an enhancement
- dwarfland 9y ago
  how so?

52 points by dwarfland 9y ago

So, a JVM language that’s not much more than just a C# clone, but with no IDE or compiler support for Linux? This sounds like it’s not going to be successful soon. In the long term, if you want to compete with Java, you’ll need good integration with existing IDEs, and with existing JVM languages.

sorokod 9y ago
A JVM language that is a super set of Java. Meaning that java sources are valid iodine sources. Some may find this attractive.
- kuschku 9y ago
  Yes, but kotlin can already translate Java to Kotlin, and provides 90% of this – with far better IDE and editing support. Forking Kotlin seems like an easier solution. Especially because of the IDE and compiler support for this, which means it can only reasonably be developed on Windows, and then you might as well use C#.
Nullabillity 9y ago
There's also the $800/seat price tag. Yeah, no thanks.

jnordwick 9y ago

Fyi: not java but a java derived language with similar aims (and initial language features) to kotlin (and pascal).

brad0 9y ago
So a JVM language? I'm asking because the site won't load for me.
- jnordwick 9y ago
  Iodine is a full superset of regular Java, but provides enhanced abilities that will make writing Java code easier and more productive. All your existing Java code should compile right away (just copy it over), and you can start making use of the enhancements, right away. For the initial release, these include: optional type inference with the var keyword "out" and "by-reference" parameters type extensions partial classes powerful aspects accessing getters/setters using property syntax global (class-less) methods and fields Cocoa-style multi-part method names (aka named parameters) and the list will continue expanding, with support for structs/records and easy property definitions, for example, coming in version 9.3. Read about all the language extensions here. Iodine also does away with some silly limitations that plague Java developers, such as being limited to having one class per file (or, indeed, one file per class) or having to match the package/namespace structure of your code with folders on disk.
  - gfredtech 9y ago
    Great, but why is it not totally free? It says on the page Try Iodine for free. When you click further, it is a 30-day free trial of some sort, and you need your email to download: http://www.elementscompiler.com/elements/iodine/ http://www.elementscompiler.com/elements/iodine/
    - dwarfland 9y ago
      "Great, but why is it not totally free?" because rent and food isn't, either.
      - gfredtech 9y ago
        well said
- jrs95 9y ago
  It’s a superset of Java with some additional features
- Nullabillity 9y ago

carussell 9y ago

Marc: the two links to Fire and Water in your post link back to the post's own URL, rather than to [Fire] and [Water]. Fire. http://www.elementscompiler.com/elements/fire/ http://www.elementscompiler.com/elements/fire/ Water. http://www.elementscompiler.com/elements/water/ http://www.elementscompiler.com/elements/water/

dwarfland 9y ago
fixed, thanx.

hadrien01 9y ago

> Let's face it: Nobody loves working in Android Studio, Eclipse, or NetBeans – the IDEs are bloated, clunky and unintuitive. Uh... I don't agree for IntelliJ/Android Studio, and I'm sure some people love to work with NetBeans and Eclipse.

_pmf_ 9y ago
I love Eclipse and am unable to cope with the laggy, crashing trainwreck that is Android Studio. The fucking joke is: it runs the build as another process, yet still manages to be completely unresponsive and prone to crashing.
- pjmlp 9y ago
  Netbeans is my favourite Java IDE and I used to bash Eclipse, yet thanks to Android Studio, Google has made me love Eclipse again.
  - qw 9y ago
    Android Studio is based on Intellij.
    - pjmlp 9y ago
      Every developer with Android experience knows that, and both require more resources than either Netbeans or Eclipse, but whatever Google makes to their fork of Intellij, makes Android Studio even worse.
      - snuxoll 9y ago
        The android dev tools have never been that great, and I feel they’re even worse with the new Gradle build system (although yay, Maven dependcies without needing to pull in Ivy?) I use IntelliJ daily without issues, literally the only difference between my work and that of a Android Studio user is the Android plugin and the different build system.
    - 9y ago

moomin 9y ago

Someone should just do C# for Java and be done with it...

SureshG 9y ago
Yeah it's called Kotlin, better than C# IMO.
- eropple 9y ago
  Kotlin is cool but it's not C#. The project that's most "C# for the JVM" is called Stab and it's widely rumored that it was (as its an anonymous project) a precursor to Kotlin on the side.
  - dwarfland 9y ago
    RemObjects C# is exactly that. C# language, compiles for JVM (and Cocoa and .NET and native Windows/Linux/Android NDK, as well).
    - eropple 9y ago
      Projects by no-name companies too insecure to open-source their stack but also too shameless not to flog it every chance they get are not worth even considering. Programming languages that aren't fully and permissively open aren't worth a bucket of spit. And I don't provide my business to the latter, either. Especially when superior options exist, because "C# on the JVM" also isn't even particularly valuable when you're a competent programmer who is capable of learning new things.
- pjmlp 9y ago
  Not really. Kotlin does not support value types, unsafe low level coding, and it is going to be a while until it can match .NET Native.
dwarfland 9y ago
Someone did: http://www.elementscompiler.com/elements/hydrogene/ http://www.elementscompiler.com/elements/hydrogene/

kkarimi 9y ago

Reminds me of the groovy/grails project and their attempt to make a better Java..

imtringued 9y ago
Groovy is also almost a superset of java. They removed a few syntactical contstructs which make it incompatible but most of them are trivial to tranform to groovy.
- vorg 9y ago
  > almost a superset of java. They removed a few syntactical contstructs Unfortunately "almost" doesn't cut it with programming languages. And they changed, not "removed", syntax. Because Apache Groovy has those (many, not "few") incompatibilities with Java (e.g. meaning of == , public visibility as default, closures instead of lambdas, etc), it might as well be a different language.

arkadiytehgraet 9y ago

I don't get it: there is already a widely accepted 'better' Java called Kotlin, that features much more than this: way better integration with IDEs, way better integration with existing Java codebases, better everything... Yet somehow we should start using NEW IDE with NEW language supported by completely unknown company with zero guarantees about its support. I just don't get it.

badpenny 9y ago
I don't know what it is about programmers that we seem to love reinventing the wheel.
- watwut 9y ago
  It is usually fun exercise that has little certainty (you know what to do and even how if you bother to study) in it, but is still intellectually satisfying. Usually great learning experience. Once in a while, project that wins over others (requires a lot of bullshitting on conferences tho).
vbezhenar 9y ago
Well, it's a competition. Why not.
jedisct1 9y ago
And Scala, and Groovy... Furthermore iodine is already the name of a popular IP-over-DNS tool.
- vorg 9y ago
  While we're on the subject of interesting titbits, Apache Groovy was first announced 14 years ago. It's creator, James Strachan, announced Groovy on 29 August 2003, hosting it at groovy.codehaus.org.
stuartq 9y ago
The difference is that it's a superset, whereas Kotlin is a different language with Java interop, that's designed to be familiar to Java programmers. To use a JavaScript analogy, Kotlin is CoffeScript, and Iodine is Typescript.

pents90 9y ago

Not sure how everybody else feels about it, but I find that optional typing is the enemy of readable code.

djur 9y ago
It doesn't look like this has optional typing (like Dart or Groovy) but local type inference (like Kotlin or C++).

tjalfi 9y ago

What problem does Iodine fix[0]? Here is my guess at an answer. Iodine: our Java implementation should include features from newer languages [0] http://paulgraham.com/fix.html http://paulgraham.com/fix.html

exabrial 9y ago

> optional type inference with the var keyword I would definitely call this a regression, not an enhancement

dwarfland 9y ago
how so?