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You don't have to avoid Android devices, just buy Google ones. Most of the others are filled with crapware and bad customizations anyway, no idea why any savvy

You don't have to avoid Android devices, just buy Google ones. Most of the others are filled with crapware and bad customizations anyway, no idea why any savvy HN reader would want those.

kuschku 9y ago
Which is easy to say, if you’re on silicon valley wages. But a student trying to develop for Android can’t afford devices that start (!) at 908.35 USD. (Price of the Pixel 5" with 32GB storage, in Germany, right now). And Google just dropped support for my phone, the Nexus 5X (which I bought for 324 USD, on sale, just before they stopped selling it)
- chii 9y ago
  How is it any worse for iOS? You even have to fork out $2k for a Mac as a dev machine!
  - kuschku 9y ago
    I never developed for iOS, because a platform that has in my home market (the EU) a marketshare similar to what Windows Phone 7 had in the US (below 15%) is useless. Especially when development starts upwards of $3000. I’m comparing between developing on Google devices, and non-Google devices.
    - lorenzhs 9y ago
      Your numbers are incorrect, iOS market share is around 22% in the EU5 (GB, DE, FR, IT, ES) according to https://www.kantarworldpanel.com/global/News/iOS-and-Android-push-towards-a-Two-OS-world https://www.kantarworldpanel.com/global/News/iOS-and-Android.... And according to https://www.kantarworldpanel.com/global/smartphone-os-market-share/ https://www.kantarworldpanel.com/global/smartphone-os-market... Windows Phone's market share (as opposed to device sales) in the US peaked at 5.6% in 2013. That's a factor of 4. You may not like iOS, and there's nothing wrong with not considering a platform for ideological reasons, but it's not irrelevant. Also, a used Mac Mini isn't $3000.
      - kuschku 9y ago
        My numbers are those the EU Antitrust committee recently published. Below 15% was the number they used as argument for why Android is a monopoly. > Also, a used Mac Mini isn't $3000. A Mac Mini that’s still under warranty, and an iPhone, and some years of Apple Developer fees, are.
        lorenzhs 9y ago
        A new mac Mini with 8GB RAM is 819€ in Germany. A new iPhone 7 32GB is 759€. That's 1578€, or $1880. Add a one-year developer subscription and you're still below $2000. Your claim is just plain wrong.
        kuschku 9y ago
        The developer subscription isn’t just 99$. You need to pay with a credit card, the cheapest credit card available in Germany has an annual fee of 39.99€, unless you move > $1300 a year via a CC. (I don’t have a CC, neither do 90.1% of Germans) So, you have $150 annual fee just for the developer account. Plus an additional massive cost every I time I need to replace the device. The starting costs are significantly higher; maybe not 3k, maybe just 2k, but that’s the same anyway: Completely unaffordable. And running costs are massively worse, too.
        lorenzhs 9y ago
        Oh quit the nonsense! I'm paying nowhere near 40€ for my credit card in Germany (and have no minimum transfer volume requirement). Also, ⅓ of Germans have a credit card: https://www.bundesbank.de/Redaktion/DE/Pressemitteilungen/BBK/2015/2015_03_19_studie.html https://www.bundesbank.de/Redaktion/DE/Pressemitteilungen/BB..., and it's not like this is the only occasion where one might be useful. Not to mention that all that gives you the ability to, you know, sell apps on the App Store and recoup your expenses. $2000 is a very reasonable entry price for something you could be making your living with. It's expensive for a hobby, granted, but it's not like the stuff you buy is single-purpose. And it keeps resale value amazingly well. You can really stop it with the made-up numbers now. This is ridiculous.
  - sosborn 9y ago
    https://www.apple.com/macbook-air/ https://www.apple.com/macbook-air/
  - imkieren 9y ago
    With iPhone's they get around 4-5 years of updates compared to the 2 years promised with Google's devices.[1] Buying into iPhone development might be more expensive upfront, but you get a longer update period (which is obviously important for developers). I paid around $725 USD for a 2012 Macbook Pro which can develop for iOS and it has 16GB of ram, an SSD and a hard drive for time machine. [2]https://support.google.com/nexus/answer/4457705#nexus_devices https://support.google.com/nexus/answer/4457705#nexus_device...
  - taspeotis 9y ago
    This hardware [1] is a bit long in the tooth but you do not have to pony up $2K to get started. [1] https://www.apple.com/us/shop/buy-mac/mac-mini https://www.apple.com/us/shop/buy-mac/mac-mini
flukus 9y ago
Let me know when google goes back to making devices with a headphone jack, an SD card slot and a replaceable battery.
tigershark 9y ago
I bought a Nexus 5 (that was supposed to give you the Google experience) after my iphone 4 and was the worst phone that I ever had. I barely managed to not throw it against the wall for several times. After less than 2 years I sold it and bought an iPhone 6s that I still have and I use happily without any "phonicidal" thoughts.
- SkyMarshal 9y ago
  I wasn't comparing Google Phones to iPhones, but to the rest of the fragmented Android market. iPhones don't come with bloatware and crapware either. But what issues did your Nexus 5 give you?
  - CamelCaseName 9y ago
    Not the parent comment, but my Nexus 5 power button got stuck and bootlooped my phone. Replaced the motherboard myself, a year later, same issue. Bummed about it because otherwise it's a good phone at a great price. Only thing I complain about other than that is how terrible the camera is, but for a cheap phone that's a few years old, it's unfair to compare to today's devices.
- intrasight 9y ago
  My Nexus 5 has served me well for many years without incident. My next phone will be a Pixel 2.

You don't have to avoid Android devices, just buy Google ones. Most of the others are filled with crapware and bad customizations anyway, no idea why any savvy HN reader would want those.

kuschku 9y ago

Which is easy to say, if you’re on silicon valley wages. But a student trying to develop for Android can’t afford devices that start (!) at 908.35 USD. (Price of the Pixel 5" with 32GB storage, in Germany, right now). And Google just dropped support for my phone, the Nexus 5X (which I bought for 324 USD, on sale, just before they stopped selling it)

chii 9y ago
How is it any worse for iOS? You even have to fork out $2k for a Mac as a dev machine!
- kuschku 9y ago
  I never developed for iOS, because a platform that has in my home market (the EU) a marketshare similar to what Windows Phone 7 had in the US (below 15%) is useless. Especially when development starts upwards of $3000. I’m comparing between developing on Google devices, and non-Google devices.
  - lorenzhs 9y ago
    Your numbers are incorrect, iOS market share is around 22% in the EU5 (GB, DE, FR, IT, ES) according to https://www.kantarworldpanel.com/global/News/iOS-and-Android-push-towards-a-Two-OS-world https://www.kantarworldpanel.com/global/News/iOS-and-Android.... And according to https://www.kantarworldpanel.com/global/smartphone-os-market-share/ https://www.kantarworldpanel.com/global/smartphone-os-market... Windows Phone's market share (as opposed to device sales) in the US peaked at 5.6% in 2013. That's a factor of 4. You may not like iOS, and there's nothing wrong with not considering a platform for ideological reasons, but it's not irrelevant. Also, a used Mac Mini isn't $3000.
    - kuschku 9y ago
      My numbers are those the EU Antitrust committee recently published. Below 15% was the number they used as argument for why Android is a monopoly. > Also, a used Mac Mini isn't $3000. A Mac Mini that’s still under warranty, and an iPhone, and some years of Apple Developer fees, are.
      - lorenzhs 9y ago
        A new mac Mini with 8GB RAM is 819€ in Germany. A new iPhone 7 32GB is 759€. That's 1578€, or $1880. Add a one-year developer subscription and you're still below $2000. Your claim is just plain wrong.
        kuschku 9y ago
        The developer subscription isn’t just 99$. You need to pay with a credit card, the cheapest credit card available in Germany has an annual fee of 39.99€, unless you move > $1300 a year via a CC. (I don’t have a CC, neither do 90.1% of Germans) So, you have $150 annual fee just for the developer account. Plus an additional massive cost every I time I need to replace the device. The starting costs are significantly higher; maybe not 3k, maybe just 2k, but that’s the same anyway: Completely unaffordable. And running costs are massively worse, too.
        lorenzhs 9y ago
        Oh quit the nonsense! I'm paying nowhere near 40€ for my credit card in Germany (and have no minimum transfer volume requirement). Also, ⅓ of Germans have a credit card: https://www.bundesbank.de/Redaktion/DE/Pressemitteilungen/BBK/2015/2015_03_19_studie.html https://www.bundesbank.de/Redaktion/DE/Pressemitteilungen/BB..., and it's not like this is the only occasion where one might be useful. Not to mention that all that gives you the ability to, you know, sell apps on the App Store and recoup your expenses. $2000 is a very reasonable entry price for something you could be making your living with. It's expensive for a hobby, granted, but it's not like the stuff you buy is single-purpose. And it keeps resale value amazingly well. You can really stop it with the made-up numbers now. This is ridiculous.
- sosborn 9y ago
  https://www.apple.com/macbook-air/ https://www.apple.com/macbook-air/
- imkieren 9y ago
  With iPhone's they get around 4-5 years of updates compared to the 2 years promised with Google's devices.[1] Buying into iPhone development might be more expensive upfront, but you get a longer update period (which is obviously important for developers). I paid around $725 USD for a 2012 Macbook Pro which can develop for iOS and it has 16GB of ram, an SSD and a hard drive for time machine. [2]https://support.google.com/nexus/answer/4457705#nexus_devices https://support.google.com/nexus/answer/4457705#nexus_device...
- taspeotis 9y ago
  This hardware [1] is a bit long in the tooth but you do not have to pony up $2K to get started. [1] https://www.apple.com/us/shop/buy-mac/mac-mini https://www.apple.com/us/shop/buy-mac/mac-mini

flukus 9y ago

Let me know when google goes back to making devices with a headphone jack, an SD card slot and a replaceable battery.

tigershark 9y ago

I bought a Nexus 5 (that was supposed to give you the Google experience) after my iphone 4 and was the worst phone that I ever had. I barely managed to not throw it against the wall for several times. After less than 2 years I sold it and bought an iPhone 6s that I still have and I use happily without any "phonicidal" thoughts.

SkyMarshal 9y ago
I wasn't comparing Google Phones to iPhones, but to the rest of the fragmented Android market. iPhones don't come with bloatware and crapware either. But what issues did your Nexus 5 give you?
- CamelCaseName 9y ago
  Not the parent comment, but my Nexus 5 power button got stuck and bootlooped my phone. Replaced the motherboard myself, a year later, same issue. Bummed about it because otherwise it's a good phone at a great price. Only thing I complain about other than that is how terrible the camera is, but for a cheap phone that's a few years old, it's unfair to compare to today's devices.
intrasight 9y ago
My Nexus 5 has served me well for many years without incident. My next phone will be a Pixel 2.