4 ms·

so how did Hitler rise? How did freedom of speech treat the West at the time? How did the opposite help Europe?

by wooter 9y ago

MBCook 9y ago
That was less than 100 years ago, after the invention of radio and newsreels; I'm not shire how it proves the point of unfettered free speech either. I'd love to see examples of unfettered free speech from the 1600s or much MUCH easier.
- wooter 9y ago
  Ancient Athenians adored freedom of speech. Naming a warship after the very concept. 399BC - Socrates speaks to jury at his trial: 'If you offered to let me off this time on condition I am not any longer to speak my mind... I should say to you, "Men of Athens, I shall obey the Gods rather than you."' 1516 - The Education of a Christian Prince by Erasmus. 'In a free state, tongues too should be free.' In the 1600s, Galileo was executed for mere speech.
  - MBCook 9y ago
    Those are examples of free speech being liked. Based on the post I was expecting examples of where free speech overcame the kind of 'there are my kind of lies so they must be true you liar' stuff we're seeing now.
  - DrScump 9y ago
    Galileo was executed?
    - wooter 9y ago
      Oops, sorry. Hoouse arrest for life and all texts burned. Here are a few executions & persecutions for speech: https://www.wired.com/2012/06/famous-persecuted-scientists/ https://www.wired.com/2012/06/famous-persecuted-scientists/
Daishiman 9y ago
Are you actually trying to say that Hitler rose to power because his speech was censored?
- wooter 9y ago
  no
  - quoquoquo 9y ago
    So why use that Hitler example?
cjslep 9y ago
Read "The Coming Of The Third Reich" by Richard J Evans to see how a very liberal democracy (Weimar Republic) was undermined: 1) No strong sense of "norms" in the culture 2) Manipulation of "Free Speech" into "Equal Speech" 3) Manipulation of a populist movement entirely built on nostalgia, the-jews-backstabbed-the-kaiser mythology, and "Germany First" so that they were far enough from Hitler that he could claim to not control them directly, but everyone else feared touching him would start a nationwide riot. 4) Political violence was normalized 5) Everything (churches, tennis clubs) had political party variants (ex: the socialist democrat Protestant church vs a communist one) 6) Terrorist attack on the Reichstag was a huge opportunity and turning point There's a world of difference between the Internet of 2017 and Germany of 1932 that I really do suggest keeping them apart, and pick up the book.
globuous 9y ago
Ooooof course the Godwin Law's still a thing... Totalitarianism has emerged in societies lacking free speech as well. it's usually a lot more complicated than that. Regulating free speech is indeed a slippery slope. But it might need to be regulated, I don't have no idea to be honest. A free market works best for the common good when it's regulated though, and I could see it being the same way for free speech. But a slippery slope it is.

so how did Hitler rise? How did freedom of speech treat the West at the time? How did the opposite help Europe?

by wooter 9y ago

so how did Hitler rise? How did freedom of speech treat the West at the time? How did the opposite help Europe?

That was less than 100 years ago, after the invention of radio and newsreels; I'm not shire how it proves the point of unfettered free speech either. I'd love to see examples of unfettered free speech from the 1600s or much MUCH easier.

wooter 9y ago
Ancient Athenians adored freedom of speech. Naming a warship after the very concept. 399BC - Socrates speaks to jury at his trial: 'If you offered to let me off this time on condition I am not any longer to speak my mind... I should say to you, "Men of Athens, I shall obey the Gods rather than you."' 1516 - The Education of a Christian Prince by Erasmus. 'In a free state, tongues too should be free.' In the 1600s, Galileo was executed for mere speech.
- MBCook 9y ago
  Those are examples of free speech being liked. Based on the post I was expecting examples of where free speech overcame the kind of 'there are my kind of lies so they must be true you liar' stuff we're seeing now.
- DrScump 9y ago
  Galileo was executed?
  - wooter 9y ago
    Oops, sorry. Hoouse arrest for life and all texts burned. Here are a few executions & persecutions for speech: https://www.wired.com/2012/06/famous-persecuted-scientists/ https://www.wired.com/2012/06/famous-persecuted-scientists/

Daishiman 9y ago

Are you actually trying to say that Hitler rose to power because his speech was censored?

wooter 9y ago
no
- quoquoquo 9y ago
  So why use that Hitler example?

cjslep 9y ago

Read "The Coming Of The Third Reich" by Richard J Evans to see how a very liberal democracy (Weimar Republic) was undermined: 1) No strong sense of "norms" in the culture 2) Manipulation of "Free Speech" into "Equal Speech" 3) Manipulation of a populist movement entirely built on nostalgia, the-jews-backstabbed-the-kaiser mythology, and "Germany First" so that they were far enough from Hitler that he could claim to not control them directly, but everyone else feared touching him would start a nationwide riot. 4) Political violence was normalized 5) Everything (churches, tennis clubs) had political party variants (ex: the socialist democrat Protestant church vs a communist one) 6) Terrorist attack on the Reichstag was a huge opportunity and turning point There's a world of difference between the Internet of 2017 and Germany of 1932 that I really do suggest keeping them apart, and pick up the book.

globuous 9y ago

Ooooof course the Godwin Law's still a thing... Totalitarianism has emerged in societies lacking free speech as well. it's usually a lot more complicated than that. Regulating free speech is indeed a slippery slope. But it might need to be regulated, I don't have no idea to be honest. A free market works best for the common good when it's regulated though, and I could see it being the same way for free speech. But a slippery slope it is.